Rafael?!

[luckyspurs]

With the exception of DDG, who amongst his team mates actually fulfils such a requirement?

Rafael's injury record this season isn't all that dissimilar to half of the squad, why do you hold him to a different standard? Should Carrick also be prevented from returning to the starting XI?

He's simply injury prone; there's no two ways about it.

Kieron Dyer (Newcastle & West Ham) - 220 matches in 12 seasons - 48%.
Andy Carroll (Liverpool & West Ham) - 95 matches in 5.5 seasons - 47%.
Michael Owen (Newcastle) - 71 matches in 4 season - 46% .
Sandro (Tottenham & QPR) - 80 matches in 5 seasons - 45%.
Rafael (Man Utd) - 108 matches in 7 seasons - 43%.

Sandro became my favourite Spurs player after Modric left, but you eventually have to cut the link. Absolutely bit QPR's hand off for £10m.

 

[Loublaze]

He's simply injury prone; there's no two ways about it.

Kieron Dyer (Newcastle & West Ham) - 220 games in 12 seasons - 48%.
Andy Carroll (Liverpool & West Ham) - 95 games in 5.5 seasons - 47%.
Michael Owen (Newcastle) - 71 games in 4 season - 46% .
Sandro (Tottenham & QPR) - 80 games in 5 seasons - 45%.
Rafael (Man Utd) - 108 games in 7 seasons - 43%.

Sandro was my favourite Spurs player after Modric left, but you can't have that level of injury proneness. Absolutely bit QPR's hand off for £10m.

He needs to go

 

[saivet]

I had a dream last night that LVG end up playing Rafael in one of our league games, however, he fecks up badly, making all sorts of defensive error. Then people were posting on here saying "this is why LVG doesn't play him much".

 

[DWelbz19]

I had a dream last night that LVG end up playing Rafael in one of our league games, however, he fecks up badly, making all sorts of defensive error. Then people were posting on here saying "this is why LVG doesn't play him much".

That was probably van Gaal's dream too

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The percentage stat is not fair for Rafael since a large portion of those 7 seasons he was not first choice.

 

[Gopher Brown]

The percentage stat is not fair for Rafael since a large portion of those 7 seasons he was not first choice.

I thought this, but in his 5 seasons as first choice he averaged 19 league games.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I thought this, but in his 5 seasons as first choice he averaged 19 league games.

He only became the undisputed first choice RB and the end of the 11-12 season.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Re: Rafael and the latest allegations of being injury prone.

His injuries this season have been responsible for a total absence of something in the range of 4-6 weeks; therefore, it has not been ongoing fitness issues that have kept him from the team but rather the personal preference of the manager. Had Van Gaal backed Rafael in a similar fashion to Valencia, he could well be on course to another acceptable tally of appearances (twice in three seasons).

Some people on the forum have evidently made up their minds on Rafael, and whilst i don't deny them that right there is no need to misrepresent events. @Pexbo for instance, stated that Rafael has been injured for four-and-a-half months since August.

 

[Mister Ed]

The percentage stat is not fair for Rafael since a large portion of those 7 seasons he was not first choice.

Ow it is always not fair when it concerns rafael....

He is a god damn unreliable injury prone player that isnt half as good as many are giving him credit for.

I'd like to see LVG give him a chance in the team just to get half of the nitwitts on this place to shut up about it !

 

[Gannicus]

Try telling that to some on here. Some think it's clear evidence.

I'm trying to get my head around the animus toward Rafael here.

Are some of us still moaning about the foul on Ribery? To those who are I respond that while Rafael made a mistake it was a reasonable mistake -- Ribery got away and Rafael did the best he could against one of the top wingers on the planet (perhaps of all time?) without committing a bad foul. The referee got it right by booking Rafael but it wouldn't have been a horrific decision just to call it a foul. And that booking DID NOT cause us to lose the game.

Are some of us still upset about all his injuries all those years? To those who are I respond that Rafael has been no more out with injury than several other of our players, players who by contrast appear to be in good stead with the manager. I'm thinking of Blind, Carrick, RvP, Jones, Shaw, Di Maria, Young, of course Falcao (who's been dire), Herrera (not sure where he stands with Louis) and Smalling and not RvP.

Question: Have only Rooney, Mata and De Gea been free of injury this season?

The Vardy fiasco aside, Rafael has actually been more than decent on the few occasions he has been allowed to play this season. Valencia has done a good enough job filling in at RB to make it his own on some level, but Rafael actually IS a right back and should be allowed to play -- at least against a side like Sunderland. If he muffs his chance against Sunderland then I embrace the decision to start Valencia against the likes of Chelsea and so on. But FFS give Rafael one more chance. IF he pulls out fantastic performances in our last 12 games then we know we've got a decent RB and could spend the 20m or so it would take to bring in Clyne or Coleman and make sure we invest in areas where we know for a stone cold fact that investments needs to me made (CF, CB and probably a CM as well...that's probably going to eat up 150m easily right there).

 

[Lawman]

Shame I was talking about this one incident.


While I can understand your argument and agree with it. This was an accident. If he broke he cheek in a car accident would it come down to him being injury prone? If the exact same contact was made with De Gea and he broke his cheek, would we label him as potentially injury prone?

Again, I understand the argument but far too often United fans need a reason for something. Take a bad performance for example, we read so much into it, players ability, the system, the manager, the players effort, everything we can think of we use as a reason to pick a players performance apart but we miss the most basic things that have the biggest impacts, did he have a shit breakfast? Did he get a good sleep? Was his baby keeping him up all night? Is he having a tough time with his wife? etc

So now with complete accidents, some try to reason it. Everyone would be far better off just accepting shit happens.

You seem to be agreeing yet arguing Eric (as you state yourself)??

 

[Eric'sCollar]

You seem to be agreeing yet arguing Eric (as you state yourself)??

Argument as in a debate/talk/discussion etc

All I am saying is, we don't have to try and find a reason for every single thing. Sometimes shit happens and that's life.

 

[simonhch]

The issue with injury prone players is that they have a concomitant effect on the cohesion of the rest of the team. This is especially important in defense. Rafael is a player that understandably generates the affection of fans because he plays with passion, determination and no shortage of flair. Objectively, however, he has very few consistent runs of performance, 2012-13 aside. There remain question marks over his defensive ability, as he retains the tendency to be rash. If he is sold, I see very little dispassionate argument for saying we will miss him. Not when he averages so few games every season and when he can be more than adequately replaced and improved upon.

The ideal scenario would be a fully fit and consistent Rafael. I don't think he would have had any difficulty establishing himself as first choice a long time ago if that were the case. But it's hypothetical because he has rarely managed either contingency. With all that said, he is just 24 and qualifies under the home grown rule. I would be tempted to keep him in the squad as the reserve right back and buy a first choice replacement. Even so, it is hard to argue with Van Gaal's logic if he buys a new first choice and keeps Valencia and McNair on as the reserves.

We certainly have more pressing issues and I believe that a break from sentimentality is exactly what this squad needs. We've seen Fletcher and Anderson go, we probably need to see Rafael, Evans, Van Persie, Lindegaard and Nani go too.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Are some of us still upset about all his injuries all those years? To those who are I respond that Rafael has been no more out with injury than several other of our players, players who by contrast appear to be in good stead with the manager. I'm thinking of Blind, Carrick, RvP, Jones, Shaw, Di Maria, Young, of course Falcao (who's been dire), Herrera (not sure where he stands with Louis) and Smalling and not RvP.

Question: Have only Rooney, Mata and De Gea been free of injury this season?

The Vardy fiasco aside, Rafael has actually been more than decent on the few occasions he has been allowed to play this season. Valencia has done a good enough job filling in at RB to make it his own on some level, but Rafael actually IS a right back and should be allowed to play -- at least against a side like Sunderland. If he muffs his chance against Sunderland then I embrace the decision to start Valencia against the likes of Chelsea and so on. But FFS give Rafael one more chance. IF he pulls out fantastic performances in our last 12 games then we know we've got a decent RB and could spend the 20m or so it would take to bring in Clyne or Coleman and make sure we invest in areas where we know for a stone cold fact that investments needs to me made (CF, CB and probably a CM as well...that's probably going to eat up 150m easily right there).

Good post.

It would not only be of benefit to United's CL hopes were LVG to start Rafael, but also represent a means by which his valuation would be enhanced. Irrespective of where people think he should be playing his football next season, the manager is cutting off his nose to spite his face at present.

 

[Loublaze]

Rafael out! Danilo/Clyne/Any reliable and good RB in!

 

[justboy68]

Are people having a laugh with that percentage stat? He clearly wasn't first choice for 7 seasons so its absolutely barmy to use as evidence. What's Januzaj's percentage stat? Herrera's? Yes he has been injury prone but no need to overdo it. He's not been injured much this season, less or the same as Blind roughly? He just isn't being picked, because we have more talented and exciting options like technical wizards Valencia and McNair.

 

[ZDwyr]

Are people having a laugh with that percentage stat? He clearly wasn't first choice for 7 seasons so its absolutely barmy to use as evidence. What's Januzaj's percentage stat? Herrera's? Yes he has been injury prone but no need to overdo it. He's not been injured much this season, less or the same as Blind roughly? He just isn't being picked, because we have more talented and exciting options like technical wizards Valencia and McNair.

until I saw "technical wizards" I thought you were serious.

 

[ivaldo]

After watching Zabeleta dive in and get skinned 3 times in the space of 5 minutes I thought I'd just make a reference here the next time Rafael is critised for being 'brash' and Zab is used as an example of how it should be done...

 

[arthurka]

After watching Zabeleta dive in and get skinned 3 times in the space of 5 minutes I thought I'd just make a reference here the next time Rafael is critised for being 'brash' and Zab is used as an example of how it should be done...

Not sure we are going to see him being rash again..

 

[roseguy64]

He's simply injury prone; there's no two ways about it.

Kieron Dyer (Newcastle & West Ham) - 220 matches in 12 seasons - 48%.
Andy Carroll (Liverpool & West Ham) - 95 matches in 5.5 seasons - 47%.
Michael Owen (Newcastle) - 71 matches in 4 season - 46% .
Sandro (Tottenham & QPR) - 80 matches in 5 seasons - 45%.
Rafael (Man Utd) - 108 matches in 7 seasons - 43%.

Sandro became my favourite Spurs player after Modric left, but you eventually have to cut the link. Absolutely bit QPR's hand off for £10m.

He was behind a better RB for part of that time so a bad comparison to the others who were all established players during the periods you picked.

 

[Brophs]

He was behind a better RB for part of that time so a bad comparison to the others who were all established players during the periods you picked.

That's generous. In those 7 years he's been behind Wes Brown, a converted CB and Neville, a player suffering with injuries and well past his best by that stage and various other players like Fabio for a short period.

EDIT: Before anyone picks me up on it, I know Wes was excellent at RB for a period but that didn't list any more than a season to a season and a half or so.

 

[roseguy64]

That's generous. In those 7 years he's been behind Wes Brown, a converted CB and Neville, a player suffering with injuries and well past his best by that stage and various other players like Fabio for a short period.

EDIT: Before anyone picks me up on it, I know Wes was excellent at RB for a period but that didn't list any more than a season to a season and a half or so.

Well yeah but that was mostly due to them being better than him. He had his injuries though which helped but he wasn't first choice because he wasn't good enough in the early seasons.

 

[Feed Me]

He's simply injury prone; there's no two ways about it.

Kieron Dyer (Newcastle & West Ham) - 220 matches in 12 seasons - 48%.
Andy Carroll (Liverpool & West Ham) - 95 matches in 5.5 seasons - 47%.
Michael Owen (Newcastle) - 71 matches in 4 season - 46% .
Sandro (Tottenham & QPR) - 80 matches in 5 seasons - 45%.
Rafael (Man Utd) - 108 matches in 7 seasons - 43%.

Sandro became my favourite Spurs player after Modric left, but you eventually have to cut the link. Absolutely bit QPR's hand off for £10m.

Er, Rafael has played 167 games for United...

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Er, Rafael has played 167 games for United...

I think he's looking at league games only.

 

[Invictus]

The whole 7 year argument is very misleading. Rafael was only 18 years old when he came over so a transitional period was validated because young players suffer from dips in form that lead to them being dropped or the fact that he was coming from a non-European League with lower conditioning standards and Fergie wanted to maintain his long term health. Playing as a defender takes a toll on the body and a fresh teenager needs to be preserved which is what Fergie did in part.

In 2 seasons prior to this one, Rafael played a combined 68 games in all competitions (or 47 in the league) despite being dropped by David Moyes for a while. That's about 34 games per season overall, not Evra-esque but hardly piss poor. And before anyone digs up Smalling or Jones' numbers, Rafael was starter for 95 % of the game from that figure, while Jones and Smalling were in part members of a carousel behind Rio and Vida in 2013/ 2014 and shared duties with the latter and Evans last season so there's a big difference. Also, we shouldn't just consider the number of matches where he played. Rafael wasn't always an immediate first choice prior to Neville's retirement so that will reflect poorly in the appearance record despite being physically fit and available. One can understand why a lot of posters want him gone, even as a Rafael fan I have to accept that he might not have a long term future at the club under current management.

But let's not make up disingenuous arguments to force the issue or act like twits (looking at the Loublaze dude). Rafael is a very good player (much better and dynamic than Valencia, who might be a better fit for Van Gaal's system but not the better right back or player overall, much like Fellaini isn't a better player than Herrera or Mata despite starting in their lieu at times this seasons) and amid prevalent perceptions of disciplinary behavior has conceded just 2 penalties since the Bayern game. Will be a terribly sad day when he leaves, he joined us as just a kid, but we'll move on as always.

 

[Feed Me]

I think he's looking at league games only.

Why's that? Do games in other competitions not count?

Selective bollocks as usual from him.

 

[Red_toad]

That's generous. In those 7 years he's been behind Wes Brown, a converted CB and Neville, a player suffering with injuries and well past his best by that stage and various other players like Fabio for a short period.

So as he's fit & not playing, that would add to the injured made up stats currently.
Raf fit & on form is one of the best right backs in the league. Still remember him virtually having Bale in his back pocket, one match v spuds. Shame he's injury prone & people need to harp on & on about it. Lad can do a job & be part of the squad. Hardly as if he's on big money & nor was he an expensive signing...

 

[Invictus]

So as he's fit & not playing, that would add to the injured made up stats currently.
Raf fit & on form is one of the best right backs in the league. Still remember him virtually having Bale in his back pocket, one match v spuds. Shame he's injury prone & people need to harp on & on about it. Lad can do a job & be part of the squad. Hardly as if he's on big money & nor was he an expensive signing...

Precisely. Rafael is on just £60,000 per week AFAIK, it's in no way an exorbitant figure and par for a Manchester United squad player so even if we sign a new RB he can be an important member of not only the squad as a backup but the dressing room and the training pitch with his infectious attitude. Forcing him out makes little sense, especially when any new signing will take time to acclimatize and even intra-league transfers wouldn't be as big of an improvement as people are prognosticating. Folks speak in hyperbolic terms about the likes of Clyne in relation to Rafael but I've watched him loads of times this season, and the difference between him and an on-form Rafael is marginal at best.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The difference between Clyne and Rafael is not marginal Rafael is much better.

 

[Revan]

The difference between Clyne and Rafael is not marginal Rafael is much better.

Yep. Rafael at his best is twice as good as Clyne.

Seriously, regardless of what happens with Rafael, I don't see Clyne as a solution. Probably he's good enought to be a squad player (to cover both flanks) but not as a first choice.

 

[Loublaze]

Its funny how only United fans think Rafael is twice as good as Clyne or any other suggested RB signing.

 

[m1y2]

Indeed. I honestly thought Rafael was the one player LVG would absolutely love to have before he even joined us.

Yeah I thought the same about Welbeck too and obviously Herrera, all clever players with great hardwork, seems like Van Gaal rates nopaced Persies, Carricks.

It would be a huge mistake letting the 24-year-old go , I hope Mr. arrogant will sort another of his big faults in his head and give him a chance to prove. He hasn't have a bad season. He was just sidelined due to injuries but seems like he's fit for some weeks but LVG just need to over complicate things and make another center back McNair right back. So much time for him.

I think threesome of Rafael, Valencia, McNair would be great for next season, considering Young can cover that position as well.. for me no need to overpay any rightback in the league which is significantly better than Rafael/Valencia

 

[jem]

I'm trying to get my head around the animus toward Rafael here.

Are some of us still moaning about the foul on Ribery? To those who are I respond that while Rafael made a mistake it was a reasonable mistake -- Ribery got away and Rafael did the best he could against one of the top wingers on the planet (perhaps of all time?) without committing a bad foul. The referee got it right by booking Rafael but it wouldn't have been a horrific decision just to call it a foul. And that booking DID NOT cause us to lose the game.

Are some of us still upset about all his injuries all those years? To those who are I respond that Rafael has been no more out with injury than several other of our players, players who by contrast appear to be in good stead with the manager. I'm thinking of Blind, Carrick, RvP, Jones, Shaw, Di Maria, Young, of course Falcao (who's been dire), Herrera (not sure where he stands with Louis) and Smalling and not RvP.

Question: Have only Rooney, Mata and De Gea been free of injury this season?

The Vardy fiasco aside, Rafael has actually been more than decent on the few occasions he has been allowed to play this season. Valencia has done a good enough job filling in at RB to make it his own on some level, but Rafael actually IS a right back and should be allowed to play -- at least against a side like Sunderland. If he muffs his chance against Sunderland then I embrace the decision to start Valencia against the likes of Chelsea and so on. But FFS give Rafael one more chance. IF he pulls out fantastic performances in our last 12 games then we know we've got a decent RB and could spend the 20m or so it would take to bring in Clyne or Coleman and make sure we invest in areas where we know for a stone cold fact that investments needs to me made (CF, CB and probably a CM as well...that's probably going to eat up 150m easily right there).

For me, that was a fiasco entirely of the ref's making, not Rafael's. I can't think of anything he did wrong there, and if I remember correctly, it wasn't Rafael who Vardy had a field day against (I seem to remember it being Rojo and Blackett.)

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Get the feeling we'll never see him in a United shirt again. :/

 

[Danillaco]

He'll play against Newcastle. I already know it, and you will too on Wednesday. I got mad PR skillz.

 

[Carl]

Hasn't even been in the squad since the Cambridge game in January and isn't injured as far as I can see. Will be gutted to see him go

 

[DWelbz19]

I wonder if he'll actually play for us once more this season.

Does he still actually train with the squad? What's the point? He hasn't featured even on the bench in 2 months.

 

[RuudTom83]

Yeah, i fear it is the end for Rafa!

In a lot of ways he represents the old SAF style of play...being free and fiery and attack attack attack! and that is never going to blend well within the style of play LVG is looking for.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I'm refusing to believe he's gone while Evans will stay. That would be just weird and unfair. We can easily accommodate another RB there and even then it shouldn't destroy Rafa's position in United.

One more chance for him, please.

EDIT: Perhaps there's something we don't know of. His fitness level may be still in question.

 

[iBoss]

How many chances has he had playing with a winger in front of him? I just think he doesn't suit the wingback position.