Rafael is good but he's rarely available. I can't blame LVG for opting in giving match experience to players who can actually play 2-3 games with vanishing in the treatment room. In my opinion this strategy got Parker-Gaz written all over it
Rafael?!
- Thread starter CapeTownRed
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Hes just got a few injuries mid way through his career, just a bit injury prone. But when he does get 5 games on the bounce chances are he'll play the next 15, he's class in my opinion. Better than most RB's out there, once he gets that run of games going. We miss him. Although Valencia has been adequate cover.
That doesn't make any sense...
And when you think it has the "parker-Gaz" Situation written all over it, how so? Gary succeded Paul
I think the Owen, Saha and Hargreaves story should have taught us that you cant depend on injury prone players
Not sure he is that bad, he must have 150+ close to 200 appearances for us and hes what 24 / 25. A lot of players go through a bit of a spell of injuries after breaking through young.
Parker was a much better RB then Gaz was, at least at the time he succeeded him. Nevertheless his last 1-2 years with United were riddled with injuries. SAF opted to let the better defender go to pave the way for a younger defender to get the match experience needed to succeed. Whoever remember Gaz at that time, he was a disaster waiting to happen. However his attitude + SAF insistence on him made him a decent right back.
We need stability and Rafael hasn't produced that for quite a long time. Because of him SAF was forced to play CBs and wingers there which may have had a negative impact on these players career and this haven't changed with either Moyes or LVG.
What I do blame LVG is for not showing him the door and brought a decent and dependable right back to replace him. Nevertheless I acknowledge there's a limit to the deadwood you can shift in one season
Excuse me sorry, but how is this relevant to that situation? I know the situation well, but don't see who our "parker" and "Gaz" are in this instance... our best RB I would argue based on this season and the last few, is Valencia, not Rafael. Parker was a monster, and Gary was a young Rafael.. I don't see McNair as a RB either.
It is relevant because LVG may have decided to cut ties with such unreliable defender and is exploring the current talent pool to decide if he needs to buy a new RB or not. We need a stable defense because that's the foundation of a truly strong defense (All great defenses from tassotti-Costacurta-Baresi-Maldini to Gaz-Johnsen-Stam-Irwin all had 4 defenders playing week in week out). Rafael can't provide that.
The reason we kept Parker at that stage was mainly due to his re-sale value/ ability, Rafeal isn't of that ability, he isn't one of the best in the world regularly, on his day he is, but that's not what Parker was. Moreover, Rafael will have a market value, and we'd be crazy to hang on to a player we've had for 7 years who can't stay fit for one full season, unless he's CR or Messi..
At the moment we need to put round bricks in round holes, Rafael is a round brick, Valencia and McNair aren't.
We kept Parker for the main reason we kept Rafael ie we hoped he will get over his injury issues and provide some good football on a regular basis. I believe that LVG has lost hope on that and is therefore exploring the idea of a 'Gary Neville' before splashing the money in the transfer market.
Were you living in a cave during Fergie's final year?
Rafael has been without injury for roughly three-quarters of the current season, your accusation of unreliability and comparison with a player like Hargreaves is a weak argument indeed. When stated consistently by LVG the team produced some of its bbest attacking footbball, would that he remember such.
Oh in 7 years he had a season were he was fit for roughly three quarters of it. What an achievement!!! We should remove Law-Best and Charlton statues and erect a monument for him because of that.
On a serious note United players should be reliable something a substantial number of players weren't/aren't. I am glad that LVG is showing the overrated and injury prone players the door one after another. That's how a proper top club is run.
Typically childish post!Oh in 7 years he had a season were he was fit for roughly three quarters of it. What an achievement!!! We should remove Law-Best and Charlton statues and erect a monument for him because of that.
On a serious note United players should be reliable something a substantial number of players weren't/aren't. I am glad that LVG is showing the overrated and injury prone players the door one after another. That's how a proper top club is run.
I remember you having a different take on the matter when one of your favourites (Hargreaves) was constantly injured.
He's kind of correct though, Rafael has had one season in 7 with our first team where he's routinely been available, he currently averages under 20 league appearances a season, and even then, certainly in Sir Alex time he oft needed to come off early.
It's a real shame as he has a swashbuckling, intensive play style that we so crave from a United player, but the reality is we need to find a longterm RB we can rely upon game to game.
It's a real shame as he has a swashbuckling, intensive play style that we so crave from a United player, but the reality is we need to find a longterm RB we can rely upon game to game.
One season in seven? He's 24.
Yep, 25 by the end of this season, he's not exactly a kid anymore, in comparisson to say other youngsters, off the top of my head, Raheem Sterling who's gametime has been curtailed by Rodgers protecting him his first few years, has averaged higher ratio's than Rafael already at the age of 19, even Luke Shaw who's had a glut of injuries this year at 19 put in 25 league appearances his first year (17 years old) and 35 his second (18 years old) at Southampton for example,
Id like to compare Rafaels average minutes on the pitch per season to someone like Darren Andertons, with his consumate "sick note" tag, but I'm too lazy to go try and hunt down the numbers.
Actually its a joke which should have served to highlight how ridiculous our attitude is towards some of our players. These days it really takes little to amuse the crowd. You just have to walk behind a pack of Russian soldiers or remain fit for three quarters of one season in seven and voila you deserve to be a United player.
Its time we shift away from having favorite players and focus more on what is better for the club. Getting rid of liabilities such as Rafael and replacing him with someone who can actually provide the goods is a step to the right direction. No one should be bigger then the club (that should be our motto rather then a buzz phrase)
Hargreaves was never my favorite player btw so I guess you're confusing me with others.
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7 years ago he was a kid, 6 years ago he was a kid, 5 years ago he was a kid, 4 years ago he was a kid. Think about what you're saying. Seven years ago he was 17, Gary Neville was still playing FFS.
Further, why the feck should we be comparing him to Sterling, Luke Shaw or any other player, completely different circumstances.
I brought them up due to the fact you mentioned 7 years ago he was a kid, yet at the same age others I mentioned were putting in more appearances than him,
the fact remains he's had 7 years involved with our first team and only put in 1 season where hes been readily available, even that one year, he had 28 league appearances to his name out of 38.
Gary Neville as you brought him up actually suffered, what would turn out to ultimately be his career ending injury the season just before Rafael became involved, needing a full year and bit off for rehabilitation, and afterwards was only ever used sparingly before finally having to call it quits in the middle of the season a couple years later.
You make it sound as if Rafael hasn't been considered out starting RB for a looong time now.
the fact remains he's had 7 years involved with our first team and only put in 1 season where hes been readily available, even that one year, he had 28 league appearances to his name out of 38.
Gary Neville as you brought him up actually suffered, what would turn out to ultimately be his career ending injury the season just before Rafael became involved, needing a full year and bit off for rehabilitation, and afterwards was only ever used sparingly before finally having to call it quits in the middle of the season a couple years later.
You make it sound as if Rafael hasn't been considered out starting RB for a looong time now.
Even if he doesn't have a future here it's baffling to play McNair ahead of him. Can't remember much of his performances this season, but last season we definitely looked a better side with him playing.
As said, LVG was WRONG in not buying a right back in January. Nevertheless I believe he lost hope in Rafael and is using the next few months to see if he's got in house replacement for him.
0/4.
Out of the mentioned points i would say only good positioning is questionable, but even then i have seen worse in plenty of other's.
Care to explain why you disagree?
It surely has to be his injury record that has seen him lose his place. Otherwise it is another one of Louis' "dont fancy him at all" situations, which rarely make sense I've been told.
That penalty which he gave away at Leicester probably sealed his fate up in van Gaal's mind, and that wasn't even Rafael's fault but the referee's. Didn't help that the same manager saw his stupid challenge on Ribery which earned him a red that night as well
He should be given another chance to impress though. He always has when he's called upon
He should be given another chance to impress though. He always has when he's called upon
LVG was as wrong for not buying a RB in Jan and he was wrong in not buying a top class CB during the summer.
These are decisions that would make it very challenging for us to maintain a top 4 finish.
PS: He is right about Raphael, who is a fantastic RB but his injury record has made him undependable.
He is not as good as many are giving him credit for, a lot of our fans do this all the time, if they like a player and he isn't playing and the team is struggling than suddenly playing this player will be the magical solution to our problems. They forget all about the negatives and only focus on the positives off the player, overrating those positives in the process and forgetting completely about the bad form the player was/has been in and got him benched in the first place. Rafael of 2012-2013 was one of the better RB's in the PL and it seems like that player has completely died off together with so many other good players we had back then like the amazing Evans and Ferdinand, the massively talented Fabio and Cleverley and ow RVP that was the utmost best striker in the entire world back then. We are two years later and nothing of that passed reality is true anymore. It is time people started to realize this. Rafael has gone from a good RB with massive talent to an unreliable player that is in really poor form and playing him carries big risks that you expose the team. The coach currently thinks the risks outweigh the benefits and decides to keep him on the bench until he shows on training or at u21 that he would deserve a chance in the first team. If Rafael is not able to do that it will be because he is not good enough anymore and it is only logical to move on and look for other options.
I agree on both counts. I remember doubting the Rojo deal saying that he's not the type of defender we need. Many wanted to skin me alive because of it. Rojo is a slight improvement of what we've got. We need much better that in most of the roles in the team
I don't agree he's the best RB at the club, Valencia has done an excellent job this season and RB is likely his best and future role with us. 1v1 Valencia is incredibly difficult to get past, he provides plenty of width and rarely ever loses possession. If he has any weakness it's because he's inexperienced as a RB and his defensive instincts aren't as sharp as someone whose played the role for years. Rafael has never been good on the ball, he's not Smalling bad but he rarely if ever goes past opposition midfielders or makes killer passes/crosses that lead to chances/goals. Rafael is much more of a liability to get sent off or give away penalties than Valencia because he's decision making is very rash. I think he get's too much praise because (and to his credit) he has a great desire and work ethic which is very admirable but the overall quality just isn't good enough.
Thing is, he is the best option we have at RB at the moment so if he is fit he should play, simple as. Playing people out of position like Valencia is one of the reasons we are underachieving yet again this season. This is why when people talk about wanted rid of Van Gaal these kind of reasons give the arguments legs.
What I will say is regardless, we do need to sign a RB in Summer. If it was me I'd of purposely bought Clyne in January as it would of gave us a reliable option and threw Southampton off potentially.
If Valencia is our future at RB I'm very worried indeed. Mediocre rubbish that will prevent us ever winning the league again IMO.
In modern football FB's are expected to provide the width and even as a winger Valcencia hugged the touchline, I'd prefer to see us playing with a wide forward who can link up with the rest of our front line ahead of him. It's a different skill set altogether as a FB. Valencia is very good 1v1/in the air and in all physical battles. Positionally he may be suspect because it's a new role but Rafael has always been a liability in that area as well.
The thing with Valencia though is that he is so one dimensional. Can't really beat a man, extremely one footed and not a great crosser. So I'd rather play a proper RB in that position then a makeshift average winger.
Rojo would have worked out beautifully if he had someone like Godin or Hummels alongside him.
We needed a senior CB desperately and I cannot understand why we never bid for Benatia...if we couldnt get Hummels or Godin he was the next best CB available for sale, and his cost was under 35M.
I like LVG and I trust in him but he is an ass for not buying that CB as it was our most glaring weakness given that we had 3 senior members of our defense that left simultaneously.
I find that Rafaels mistakes are highlighted because he has a reputation of being rash.
he has a better cross than valencia and imo is better at going past his man.
he provides better support when attacking with his overlapping runs.
I may be slightly biased from watching valencia smash the ball against the defenders legs game after game last season.
he has performed better this season, however I still feel Rafael is better.
Rafael is far from a consistent crosser of the ball. He barely even looks up when he crosses. Neville was so much better in this respect.
The thing is, he is not because if he was than he would be playing.
Van Gaal wants to win, it is his job and his honor as a trainer, he is not deliberately keeping a player out of the team that he knows will make us better. The reason why he keeps him out of the team is because he thinks he is not so good and would expose us to more risks than when playing Valencia or McNair. I for one still think Van Gaal knows more about football than the general arm chair supporter looking at his vast experience in top football. If Van Gaal thinks Rafael is not our best option for the RB atm, than he'll have his reasons and as a fan we should accept that instead of questioning Van Gaals judgement all the time.
I don't think we should accept anything van Gaal says without questioning the motives. He's no SAF. He's a foreigner who hasn't seen much of Manchester United as compared to an average supporter.Am not saying the fans are much more knowledgeable. But there are some aspects where a fan may see things from a red tinted perspective(aka Young and Fellaini). In those cases LvG's neutrality may help. But there are also many other situations like Rafael's where it's just a case of wrong first impression. We all know how good Rafael was whenever he plays. We've seen his best and worst days. From an outsider point of view,at a first glance, Rafael's height may be questionable. His aggressiveness may be seen as a negative point for a 'safe' manager like van Gaal. His injury record isn't so great, so he may assume he can't depend on Rafael.
If we are only talking about quality, he's simply the best RB we have. He's already proven his game is good enough at the highest levels. He has loads of champions league experience. He's played against some of the best teams in the world and did reasonably well. His red at Leicester was undeserved. van Gaal's job is on the line and I understand he's always taking the safe method. But we also have to accept many of his decisions are questionable and because of that many good players are having a bad time at united. He probably underestimates Rafael's abilities and overestimates the physical nature of the PL. He needs to learn to trust his players more. Shafting them unnecessarily isn't gonna help the overall morale. He's polarizing the dressing room. There's gonna be one group of players extremely happy with the manager and another completely against him. Looks like slowly the unwanted ones will depart. It will be sad but I just don't see anything else happening the way things are going.