Think it could be an interesting list if the board ask who Ralf doesn't think is good enough for United. Could be a long list as well. We need a complete reset, don't say yet again. It has never been done, not by any stretch. It isn't just talent it is an atrocious attitude most of it generated by the club itself. Decide what type of team you want, then keep players who can fit, get rid of the ones who can't, even if big names. Instead of quick fix for trophies, that has gone well, take your time and do the job properly. Oh of course get a manager who fits the plan as well, that should go without saying.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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People seem to have short memories. Yesterday was one of, if not the, most dominant 90 minutes we've put together in years. Fine, obviouisly the draw hurts, but we were excellent. Demonstrated control, composure, intensity and everything you could want except, of course, the finishing.
We simply are playing better in the past few games. Maybe it's the opposition, or luck, or whatever, but to my untrained eye we look like we are at least trying to do something.
However, some of the individual sloppiness is far worse than under Ole, that's probably the odd thing here. Notably Bruno, but also Shaw and before illness McTominay. I mean not properly focusssing on 5 yard passes, and controlling the ball. Not sure if that's down to too much info, but it's not great.
We simply are playing better in the past few games. Maybe it's the opposition, or luck, or whatever, but to my untrained eye we look like we are at least trying to do something.
However, some of the individual sloppiness is far worse than under Ole, that's probably the odd thing here. Notably Bruno, but also Shaw and before illness McTominay. I mean not properly focusssing on 5 yard passes, and controlling the ball. Not sure if that's down to too much info, but it's not great.
That is why some tough decisions will need to be made, is it a lapse in form or won't get any better. What did for us yesterday was bad finishing, that is not for the first time though.
We created more than enough chances to win the game, and kept a clean sheet. Evaluate Rangnick on the starting line-up, the tactical setup, the intensity we play with and the substitutions he makes. There isn't much he can do about the finishing during the game.
It would be less grim were we to have finished half the chances we should’ve scored though, I think that’s the point. We’ve had a complete reversal. For huge periods with Ole we were winning games we didn’t deserve to be winning, completely masking our true performances. Now we’re drawing games we should be winning. If we were creating nothing, I’d put it on Ralf. But you can’t blame him for us missing so many chances. Just like in Oles case, the luck has to turn.
You are right, that is the correct benchmark for a man United manager... Anything better than that is defensible ...
I get what you’re saying but if like yesterday, we should be 3 or 4-0 up at half time, his football can’t be that wrong can it? Ronaldo should’ve scored a hat trick. That first half we were excellent. One of our most fluid halves this season. Not sure we can blame him for the second when two of his most important players can only last an hour. And he has a bang out of form Rashford to come one and no Cavani, Greenwood or Martial. Although I do question Matic and Rashford. Once Matic had gone we had zero ability to hold the midfield and create chances with Rashford doing what Rashford does best.
Good post. Bizarre that people are blaming Bruno when it took nearly two months before RR figured out how to get the best out of him.
I think because a lot of fans today are spoiled little brats who don’t fully understand football. They expect instant success and have no patience when they don’t get it. I’m also amazed at the way they comment after a game as though they never watched it, trotting out the same mindless drivel that bears no reflection to what they saw. The first half yesterday was pretty damn fluid. We could’ve been about 4-0 up within the first 20 minutes. Ralf has had his hands tied behind his back by the board yet again yet still the progress is clear to see. Now if the forwards could start finishing their dinner, maybe even the idiots could see it.I am starting to see Ole is better coach than Ralf now?! Caf has reached amazingly stupid heights that I thought was impossible.
And it's the usual stats Andies too, let's ignore the circumstances, the way our general play improved a lot from Ole and just look at stats, let's be dim about it! How can people look so simplistic at football? Bloody hell.
Distant 2nd and 3rd without a single title challenge and losing EL final after getting embarrassed in CL group isn't "doing well". The manager before him also finished 2nd with higher points tally and won EL.
Stats are irrelevant because Ralf isn't going to be the permanent manager next season so this comparison is stupid.
Ralf being shit or not isn't going to reflect well on Ole. He didn't just fail in winning trophies or challenging for the league, but also built us a shit squad that will need another rebuild.
Yeah, the one that gets me most to be honest is how reluctant our fullback and wingers are to make runs down the wing to stretch the play and be fed the ball. All of them just want to stand there as an easy option and get the ball to feet. Just bloody run ffs. In the few times they actually did it yesterday, we created decent chances. So frustrating. As is the shoot on sight policy that Ole seems to have installed. If you don’t buy a ticket, you’ll never win the raffle, ey boys.
They also have a really good away record I read. Yet we should have been 4-0 up by half time.
Totally agree. The only recurring theme recently, other than the Shite finishing is how poor we are at the start of the second half. What do you guys think is the reason for that? Is Ralf trying to cram too much stuff into them in those 15 minutes? Who do we always go back out looking like we just woke up from the middle of a deep sleep. I guess the fact we don’t start like that anymore, is progress.
It is almost like they run themselves into the ground in the first half, then start the first half slowly to get their breath to finish stronger. However in that slower time the other time have come out with a bit of fight in them. They need a fitness regime for hard pressing to last the pace. I suspect they have got used to one for sitting back and hitting on the break.
Has our idiotic part of the fanbase burned ralf at the stake yet for forwards missing open goals and sitters ?
Yeah, that makes sense. That’s why it was so frustrating we didn’t get a mid in the window. Seeing Zakaria in that Juve midfield is so frustrating. Just having another body to let the others re-energize would have made so much of a difference, never mind the fact he might’ve actually been better than some of what we have. The board absolutely hung Ralf out to dry. And I’m surprised Arnold was happy to let that happen on the basis he just behind the desk and already he’s gonna look like a failure if we don’t finish fourth.
With ole's luck ralf would have us winning every game 5 nil
No kidding. Never seen a man with such luck. It’s like he signed a deal with the devil. Pretty apt when you think about it.With ole's luck ralf would have us winning every game 5 nil
Put yourself in this position. You're one on one with the goal keeper, you shoot and it either goes wide or the goalkeeper saves it. Consensus is you really should have scored. Which statement is true:
a) You're Unlucky
b) You're Shite
c) It's the managers fault
I'll give you a clue, it's definitely not one of them.
a) You're Unlucky
b) You're Shite
c) It's the managers fault
I'll give you a clue, it's definitely not one of them.
Just have to look at some of the latest posts in this thread. "We have 2 PPG, more than Ole's full seasons and Conte". Blissfully ignoring that we've faced one cannon fodder after another. Over a full season you play 10 games against the other top 6. Ralf has played 0 in his 13 games. On average after 13 games you're supposed to have played 3-4 times against top 6 opposition. That shows how ridiculously easy his fixtures have been. And then there's "we lost 4-1 last time, therefore a draw this time is progress". Not to mention "Watford have a good away record". They had lost 7 out of 12 away games before yesterday. Those aren't rational posts but idiotic takes aimed to glorify the current situation.
And people are acting as if the manager can do absolutely nothing about the lack of goals. Scoring more goals than the opposition is, to quote Michael Owen, the most important part in football. If one thing very clearly isn't working, try something else. If players aren't able to put the ball in the net, try some others. Ronaldo has 2 goals in 2.5 months but is somehow still more or less an automatic starter. His only job is to score goal and he isn't doing that. Take him completely out of the firing line for a game or two and tell him to get a grip or he'll find himself on the bench. Show some balls and make some brave decisions.
Then there's the question, why aren't we finishing our chances? If this was a Brighton kind of situation where we had dross forwards like Maupay and Welbeck I'd have no problem accepting our lack of goals. But Ronaldo, Rashford and Bruno are more than capable of getting 60 goals between them. Why is it that they can't hit a barn door anymore? Shooting drills, focus exercises etc. are down to the coaching. You can blame bad luck once, twice, thrice but when it's happening game after game after game it's not bad luck anymore. It's a clear symptom of something bigger. And the manager has to figure it out quickly or that crap 47 % win percentage he has will nosedive significantly once we start facing harder opponents.
Sick of this "unlucky yet again, at least we won the xG, we go again next week" attitude while we're gifting a Champions League spot to Lego Pep's bang average team.
While I agree with most of what you say. Ronaldo would not be here if not for the board.
The problem has always been a board that has no knowledge of the game.
Oh, don't get me wrong. The positioning, the spaces between the lines, the intensity etc, these are all things that we have been improved since his arrival. I wasn't talking about this match. It's obvious that he identified our defensive transitioning and our inability to control matches as the main problems in our game, and he immediately started working on them. And he has produced results in that department. Since the squad is unbalanced, i'm not expecting miracles in the phase of our game with the ball. I can't tell if RR can fix it, either, and to what degree. I would prefer him to move upstairs, come the end of the season, and help the new manager with the assessment of the squad and any potential signings. It's true that we should be converting more of our chances, but, on the other hand, the lack of good chances against Atlético and our difficulty to produce decent football was worrying when you consider that the level of opposition is going to be significantly higher in the next couple of months. I think his position is safe, even if top-four becomes impossible because the club seems willing to invest in his idea of how football should be played. But it also matters how we'll get to the end of the season.
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Yeah should definitely stick to the plan of him going upstairs in the summer
Oh agree with all that. And yeah, we were sore against Athleti. I mean they really didn’t create very much but we created nothing. I thought maybe that was due to them having to work so hard against Leeds. But then in the second half it was us who came on strong and Athelti who wilted. Really should’ve taken advantage at that point but with Pogba only lasting 60 mins it’s hard these days. Ralf is clearly a smart man and he has us playing much better football. I hope he’s given a proper role at this club in the future.
Has to ram it down our boards throats continously how Ten Hag is the right appointment
Yeah there's a slight hint of sarcasm in my post. In Ole's two full seasons he finished 3rd and 2nd and reached a bunch of semi finals. In the league he was labelled lucky. There's nothing lucky about your finishing position after 38 games. You are where you deserve to be. In the cups he was labelled a bottler. A fair assessment if you only look at results. But we destroyed Sevilla in that semi and should've been in the final. Last season we should've had a two goal lead against PSG at home and we would've progressed from the group. But all these shoulda coulda woulda's are irrelevant. In football you are judged on results. That's what ultimately matters. Reality is that Ralf has only won 47 % of his 17 games. And this is before his tough fixtures have even started. That's just not good enough.
I'm of the opinion that it doesn't really matter who the United manager is, the overall structure of the club is so bad that the manager is just a puppet who is bound to fail regardless. Signings like Sanchez and Ronaldo, these are just commercial gimmicks to flex financial muscles. Contract extensions to every undeserving man and his dog to "preserve their value". Ignoring glaring holes in the team. Overpaying for every single player you buy and poor recruitment in general. These are issues that run far deeper than any manager. And these are issues that handicap whoever the manager is at the time. Ralf is no exception in that regard.
Problem with this fanbase is that they don't see the bigger picture. They thought Moyes created all the issues that the saviour LVG was going to solve. Two years later they thought LVG was responsible for all the issues. Then Mourinho was responsible. Now Ole is responsible. The bad guy is always whoever the previous manager was. He always gets all the blame. If the new manager fails then that just shows how the previous manager was a failure because his recruitment was poor. If the new manager succeeds then that just shows how the previous manager was a failure because he couldn't get the best out of his players. When in reality the actual failures are the cretin owners and the broad. Those cnuts escape all the scrutiny time after time while the previous managers are treated as lightning rods. United owners and board live a charmed life.
Looks like we have folks here who’d hire Ole back in a heartbeat.
Perhaps (most likely) RR will not continue as manager beyond the end of the season. But if people are expecting us to suddenly start performing and getting results like title contenders under a new manager (even the flavor of the season like Ten Hag), then they should be really be prepared for a rude surprise and keep expectations in check. Too many players have regressed or are just not physically fit enough to perform at the level required for this club. As long as we continue to reward mediocrity with long-term contracts (pretty soon we’ll see Rashford getting one), we aren’t going to get to where we want. Hard decisions have to be made and just having a coach who can set you up tactically isn’t going to fix the problems we’re facing.
Perhaps (most likely) RR will not continue as manager beyond the end of the season. But if people are expecting us to suddenly start performing and getting results like title contenders under a new manager (even the flavor of the season like Ten Hag), then they should be really be prepared for a rude surprise and keep expectations in check. Too many players have regressed or are just not physically fit enough to perform at the level required for this club. As long as we continue to reward mediocrity with long-term contracts (pretty soon we’ll see Rashford getting one), we aren’t going to get to where we want. Hard decisions have to be made and just having a coach who can set you up tactically isn’t going to fix the problems we’re facing.
You're OK, Samid. Even when i don't agree with you, i always enjoy reading your posts. I was never in the Ole camp, but you can't say that he didn't have his good moments here. And just because the big picture didn't materialize in the end, it doesn't mean that it was all left to chance in the hope that something will eventually stick. If anything, during his tenure, Solskjaer went back to the drawing board several times to find a solution. But, as you said, it's a result business.
My objection with Ralf is that we haven't appointed him full-time, when Conte was ready and willing, which is an indication that his primary objective here is to prepare the ground for the next guy. Who we can hope will be a progressive manager with fresh ideas. In this sense, he's not the guy (and he'll probably never will be), therefore we were always taking a risk with him. On the other hand, we can't afford to simply crash and burn until the end of the season. He needs some good results. I believe he receives more credit than he probably deserves, not because some still have a beef with Solskjaer, but because if it becomes a question of sacrificing the manager - again - to save the squad or the opposite, they would pick the football style whose basics RR is trying to implement. Don't forget that many of the underperforming players let Solskjaer down big time.
I fully agree with the last two paragraphs.
You brought it up
the only thing more embarrassing than that 4-1 was the 5-0 weeks earlier at home
Sorry that you felt embarrassed by a football team
Think its pretty clear there are posters here who are looking to take their frustration of Ole losing his job out on Ralf...
Last season despite getting 2nd, which meant winning plenty of games, a lot of people could see that the tactics or lack of tactics could only get us so far. There were a lot of people who could look past the 2nd and the final of Europa to see that Ole was not capable of getting us to take that next step.
With Ralf yes results are not amazing, but just as above one can separate results from performances. It is clear to anyone who can see the team has more control, has more defensive reslience and now is actually creating loads of chances all of which have slowly developed since he joined. Those are all good signs pointing to a good job that Ralf is doing so far.
The other thing is plenty of posters are taking things out of context to disparage the manager. For example saying Ralf is expected to qualify for champs league, even Ole on an incredible winning streak after jose couldn't drag us to qualify for champs league. The teams morale is rock bottom, ronaldos signing has clearly upset a bunch of players and the lack of coaching for the past 3 years has come home to roost.
All in all Ralf is doing a very good job. If he keeps the team performing as is and we miss out on champions league that won't be down to him. It'll be down ronaldo and bruno missing easy goals, it'll be down to rashford downing tools and it'll be down to the English defenders we've got deciding to gift the opposition opportunities.
Last season despite getting 2nd, which meant winning plenty of games, a lot of people could see that the tactics or lack of tactics could only get us so far. There were a lot of people who could look past the 2nd and the final of Europa to see that Ole was not capable of getting us to take that next step.
With Ralf yes results are not amazing, but just as above one can separate results from performances. It is clear to anyone who can see the team has more control, has more defensive reslience and now is actually creating loads of chances all of which have slowly developed since he joined. Those are all good signs pointing to a good job that Ralf is doing so far.
The other thing is plenty of posters are taking things out of context to disparage the manager. For example saying Ralf is expected to qualify for champs league, even Ole on an incredible winning streak after jose couldn't drag us to qualify for champs league. The teams morale is rock bottom, ronaldos signing has clearly upset a bunch of players and the lack of coaching for the past 3 years has come home to roost.
All in all Ralf is doing a very good job. If he keeps the team performing as is and we miss out on champions league that won't be down to him. It'll be down ronaldo and bruno missing easy goals, it'll be down to rashford downing tools and it'll be down to the English defenders we've got deciding to gift the opposition opportunities.
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I’m more in the middle. To me, this is not binary, more shades of gray. There are good players in this squad. Our midfield is the biggest problem and that in turn causes issues in defense and attack.
I’m of the mind that our problems are three-fold: lack of leadership at the club level, issues with the squad in terms of both form and being past it, and finally, the coaching has been substandard this season.
Shatterer of dreams
In reality it meant collecting 1.94 points per Premier League game, a number Ralf is currently beating with 2 points per Premier League game.
It surprises me that the Caf has been so vehement that 100% of the squad is shit. Also, that Ole is 100% to blame for it. There are many many holdovers from previous managers, and I would argue that those acquisitions have hurt us more than Ole’s acquisitions. If Ole did have a hand in keeping Mata, Matic, Lingard and Jones, then so be it, but my understanding was that the reason they were extended was that Woody didn’t want to lose a single “asset”.
‘So, let me understand your point of view: Ole wasn’t good enough with this squad and had to go (I agree). 2. The squad is awful, every single player, which is the fault of Ole (I agree that there are players in the squad that don’t meet our standard, but I actually think there are many good players who have proven themselves for multiple seasons). 3. RR shouldn’t be held to the same standard as Ole because they aren’t his players, and it is too much to ask a professional manager to get a tune out of a squad that finished 2nd last season (I don’t agree with this). And 4. Although RR probably has been asked by the board to get top 4, statistics and results don’t matter because he isn’t going to be here for the long term anyway, and therefore should be above criticism (I disagree).
RR is currently picking up more points per game in the league than last season though innit? So in that sense, he is currently getting a better tune out of the squad that finished 2nd last season.
Points won by opponent's league position
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4: Us
5: 3
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8: 0
9: 1
10: 3
11: 3
12: 1
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14: 1
15: 3
16: 3
17: 1 and 3
18:
19: 1
20: 3
PPG mob can cling onto the inflated PPG for now. Good luck picking up 2 wins from City, Spurs and Liverpool which are needed to maintain it.
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4: Us
5: 3
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8: 0
9: 1
10: 3
11: 3
12: 1
13:
14: 1
15: 3
16: 3
17: 1 and 3
18:
19: 1
20: 3
PPG mob can cling onto the inflated PPG for now. Good luck picking up 2 wins from City, Spurs and Liverpool which are needed to maintain it.
He did and you took the bait. Well done
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