Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[diarm]

Well did he ever work in a top 4 league? Looks like he never worked in England, Spain, Italy or France to me.

Who knew about him outside of Germany/Germans? I guess he got an interview or two, so maybe that's a fraction too harsh.

In what universe is France a top 4 league?

https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022
https://www.footballseeding.com/uefa/country-ranking/2022-23/

 

[stevoc]

Thats not true though. He recommended Nkunku before he signed a new deal. Laimer and Alvarez. (last two before Bayern and City got involved) The only one demanding a high fee at the time was Haaland.
Surely even you will have to admit that Laimer, Alvarez and Nkunku where better targets then Rabiot and Arnautovic.

Would any of them have wanted to join a team not in the CL (due in no small part to Rangnick's time as manager) though?

 

[MackRobinson]

It's 50/50 for 4th place with Ligue 1.

Not it's not. Its country coefficient was ranked 2nd, 3rd, or 4th for the last decade. They will probably leapfrog the Serie A after this season. Consistently top 4.
https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022

 

[romufc]

Saying he's never worked in a top 4 league and calling him a nobody is completely ignorant in my opinion and to be honest you saying. "people act as if he's an amazing talent finder" isn't much better when he's discovered players like Haaland ( the first time around) Mane, Firminho, Werner, Upamecano, Alba, Neuer, Kimmich, Keita, Konate and took Smith Rowe on loan because he can recognise talent.

I can understand people slamming his interim period with us but not giving him credit on what he's achieved in the football World is just completely agenda driven. Given the choice between him or Murtough as football director I'd be voting for Ralf everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Some supporters deserve the suffering we've been going through the way we're run as a club. Ralf is just another example in a long list of feck ups and if people can't see that then there's nothing anyone can do to help them.

I am not saying he is poor at finding players, people think that every player he finds is a gem.
What about players like:
Davie Selke
Carlos Eduardo
Josup Simunic
Kevin Kurnayi

People only talk about successful signings, never the list of players that have failed.

In respects to sporting director, no other big club has given him that role, there is a reason for that.

What he showed in his interim spell is that he is good at giving the talk, very poor at walking the walk.
Atinc Nukan
Rafinia
Tyler Adams
Will Obran

Players like Alaba, Smith Rowe were on loan, are we crediting him for loaning players?

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I am not saying he is poor at finding players, people think that every player he finds is a gem.
What about players like:
Davie Selke
Carlos Eduardo
Josup Simunic
Kevin Kurnayi

People only talk about successful signings, never the list of players that have failed.

In respects to sporting director, no other big club has given him that role, there is a reason for that.

What he showed in his interim spell is that he is good at giving the talk, very poor at walking the walk.
Atinc Nukan
Rafinia
Tyler Adams
Will Obran

Players like Alaba, Smith Rowe were on loan, are we crediting him for loaning players?

I did mention Smith Rowe was a loan player but it doesn't take away from the fact that his talent was recognised and I do think you really are down playing signings RR has made. Those players signed by Ralf I've mentioned as a team would have every chance of winning the CL so it's not just one or 2 gems he's discovered and every single successful manager has had their own share of duds.

When was the last basically unknown player of calibre we signed? Vidic? Evra? That's 16 years ago and Ralf shits on all the other managers since then in terms of finding talent. If you don't think that would be beneficial to the club then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[romufc]

I did mention Smith Rowe was a loan player but it doesn't take away from the fact that his talent was recognised and I do think you really are down playing signings RR has made. Those players signed by Ralf I've mentioned as a team would have every chance of winning the CL so it's not just one or 2 gems he's discovered and every single successful manager has had their own share of duds.

When was the last basically unknown player of calibre we signed? Vidic? Evra? That's 16 years ago and Ralf shits on all the other managers since then in terms of finding talent. If you don't think that would be beneficial to the club then I don't know what to tell you.

You do realise signing an unknown player at United and Hoffenheim/ Shalke/ Leipzig is not the same ?

These are all feeder clubs, unless you want us to go down that route of Leipzig or Dortmund, sign players at 17 and sell them at 21//22?

I do not want us to become a feeder club to City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barca, Real, Bayern.

 

[BluesJr]

Full control should have been given to Rangnick upstairs.

 

[Lyng]

Would any of them have wanted to join a team not in the CL (due in no small part to Rangnick's time as manager) though?

In January I am sure they would given that we at that time still had a shot.

Do I think Rangnick was / is a good manager? No.
Do I think we would have benefitted from recruiting his targets in January? Absolutely.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

You do realise signing an unknown player at United and Hoffenheim/ Shalke/ Leipzig is not the same ?

These are all feeder clubs, unless you want us to go down that route of Leipzig or Dortmund, sign players at 17 and sell them at 21//22?

I do not want us to become a feeder club to City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barca, Real, Bayern.

You're completely missing the point. It's got nothing to do with being a feeder club but more to do with instead of spending 80m on a player we actually sign them before they become known. If Ralf was our football director and unearthed players like Mane, Kimmich or Haaland do you really think they'd be sold on? Ralf has contacts in the footballing world that Murtough can only dream of. That's my point.

 

[romufc]

You're completely missing the point. It's got nothing to do with being a feeder club but more to do with instead of spending 80m on a player we actually sign them before they become known. If Ralf was our football director and unearthed players like Mane, Kimmich or Haaland do you really think they'd be sold on? Ralf has contacts in the footballing world that Murtough can only dream of. That's my point.

I'm sorry but I do not agree with this.

When Ole was manager we had the chance to sign Bellingham and Haaland. Some people make it seem like Ralf is the only person who can unearth gems.

Yes, I do actually think if we signed Haaland they would be sold on, that is the exact reason they go to these clubs knowing they will get sold.

There was a reason why Haaland insisted on a buy out clause.

 

[Revaulx]

So you are telling me that a GK like David Degea can only play one style of play?

Has he played the same style of play under Ferguson, Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Soldkjaer?

Same with Maguire, England under Southgate play the same style as Leicester under Rodgers or United under Solskjaer?

Van Gaal was over six years ago now. Jose got Dave to unlearn everything he had been taught in the preceding two years. Sadly it’s probably too late now to do anything about it.

Pep didn’t hang about getting rid of Joe Hart, though the latter’s form was well on the slide by then in addition to his being unable to play out from the back.

I don’t think Southgate’s England and Ole’s United were very similar; certainly not in their attacking play, but the defence weren’t being asked to do much that was different. Southgate plays two DMs, which helps Maguire look better than he does for United.

 

[Mibabalou]

Full control should have been given to Rangnick upstairs.

Yep, it's so obvious he was axed because he told the truth.

We needed 10 new players and even had very good ones picked out.


If we were sitting here today with

Alvarez
Laimer
Nkunu
Gvardiol


We'd be in such better shape then eth saying he wants to give everyone a chance when they've all proven to show their level is about 5th or 6th place.

 

[RacingClub]

Alvarez. (last two before Bayern and City got involved)

I keep seeing this but I don't know where it's coming from.

I was under the impression that Ralf was using Alvarez as an example of attackers who were "available" (along with Diaz and Vlahovic) in the 48 hour window when he was told that they couldn't do any business because nobody was available.

City didn't just sign him out of the blue, they were rumours about their interest for weeks/ months (along with a load of other top clubs like Inter/Real Madrid and even Spurs)

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I'm sorry but I do not agree with this.

When Ole was manager we had the chance to sign Bellingham and Haaland. Some people make it seem like Ralf is the only person who can unearth gems.

Yes, I do actually think if we signed Haaland they would be sold on, that is the exact reason they go to these clubs knowing they will get sold.

There was a reason why Haaland insisted on a buy out clause.

I can see your point but if the club found a player like Haaland before he became what he is it wouldn't be the clubs choice to sell him but more the player wanting to moving such as Ronaldo but how many times has a (world class) player asked to leave United in the last 20 years? The risk is negligible.

My main gripe is people thinking Ralf has done nothing in the footballing world when the opposite is true. I accept his tenure with us for whatever the reason was a disaster but his experience is far greater than Murtoughs. Something the club could of used if we were half way serious about getting back to the top. All these new strategies being run by generally inexperienced people when we had a man who knows more about the game than the lot of them put together.

If the reason Ralf left was because ETH didn't want him then we still have a lot to learn as a club. You don't get rid of that sort of experience on a whim.

 

[romufc]

I can see your point but if the club found a player like Haaland before he became what he is it wouldn't be the clubs choice to sell him but more the player wanting to moving such as Ronaldo but how many times has a (world class) player asked to leave United in the last 20 years? The risk is negligible.

My main gripe is people thinking Ralf has done nothing in the footballing world when the opposite is true. I accept his tenure with us for whatever the reason was a disaster but his experience is far greater than Murtoughs. Something the club could of used if we were half way serious about getting back to the top. All these new strategies being run by generally inexperienced people when we had a man who knows more about the game than the lot of them put together.

If the reason Ralf left was because ETH didn't want him then we still have a lot to learn as a club. You don't get rid of that sort of experience on a whim.

I agree his pedigree is better than Murtough but this is Manutd and there is no way the Glazers will allow someone they cannot control have any power.

We can get the best manager, best DoF, best players but it would make no difference as long as we are owned by the Glazers.

Under proper ownership, we would hire the right personnel and each would have to take responsibility.

Under the current model, no one apart from the manager takes the responsibility, not the sporting director, not the players.

 

[Silverman]

He is exactly what we need. Someone who will tell it how it is when United higher ups try to cover up the shambolic running of the club.

 

[VidaRed]

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Scandalous we missed out on those players. Every single one of them is miles better than the one's we've got.

 

[#07]

I keep seeing this but I don't know where it's coming from.

I was under the impression that Ralf was using Alvarez as an example of attackers who were "available" (along with Diaz and Vlahovic) in the 48 hour window when he was told that they couldn't do any business because nobody was available.

City didn't just sign him out of the blue, they were rumours about their interest for weeks/ months (along with a load of other top clubs like Inter/Real Madrid and even Spurs)

According to Sam Luckhurst, Rangnick recommended Alvarez to Man Utd before City moved for him. I think I've seen Fabrizio Romano claim that Rangnick was scouting Alvarez at Moscow and tried to get United interested when he got the interim job.

Either way the targets in Luckhurst's article today strike me as more reflective of a plan than anything we're hearing now. It might all work out. Ten Hag is a really good coach so maybe he can fit everyone together into something coherent. However, when we're going after the likes of Arnautovic and Sarr, nobody can convince me this is all based off of some long term blueprint to find players that can play Ajax style football.

 

[stevoc]

In January I am sure they would given that we at that time still had a shot.

Do I think Rangnick was / is a good manager? No.
Do I think we would have benefitted from recruiting his targets in January? Absolutely.

If their clubs would have been happy enough to sell them Mid-season which most teams don't.

And obviously it seems like the club wanted to retain as much of the budget as possible for the new managers targets this summer.

 

[Greck]

According to Sam Luckhurst, Rangnick recommended Alvarez to Man Utd before City moved for him. I think I've seen Fabrizio Romano claim that Rangnick was scouting Alvarez at Moscow and tried to get United interested when he got the interim job.

Either way the targets in Luckhurst's article today strike me as more reflective of a plan than anything we're hearing now. It might all work out. Ten Hag is a really good coach so maybe he can fit everyone together into something coherent. However, when we're going after the likes of Arnautovic and Sarr, nobody can convince me this is all based off of some long term blueprint to find players that can play Ajax style football.

I think the worst thing in all of this is they didn't even need to keep him to take any of his advice. But because he missed top 4 even the nuggets of common sense were treated as self-preservation. Like he can't both be a shite manager and be right on some things.

 

[stevoc]

According to Sam Luckhurst, Rangnick recommended Alvarez to Man Utd before City moved for him. I think I've seen Fabrizio Romano claim that Rangnick was scouting Alvarez at Moscow and tried to get United interested when he got the interim job.

Either way the targets in Luckhurst's article today strike me as more reflective of a plan than anything we're hearing now. It might all work out. Ten Hag is a really good coach so maybe he can fit everyone together into something coherent. However, when we're going after the likes of Arnautovic and Sarr, nobody can convince me this is all based off of some long term blueprint to find players that can play Ajax style football.

City signed Alvarez in January so it's likely the wheels were moving on that transfer for a good while before that. So it's fine for Rangnick to recommend players in late December but it's not as simple as just going and getting the player as if there is no competition for top prospects.

 

[Ted Lasso]

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Oh look, the fans that have been gaslighted for months for saying this is what happened are right after all.

Absolutely no new information here but on the face of a terrible transfer window and opening game, maybe this will get more attention and stick in memories a bit better.

 

[#07]

I think the worst thing in all of this is they didn't even need to keep him to take any of his advice. But because he missed top 4 even the nuggets of common sense were treated as self-preservation. Like he can't both be a shite manager and be right on some things.

Yeah. You can't argue with results. Regardless of whether you think there are mitigations or not. We finished sixth. We were garbage. Rangnick couldn't coach us out of it. I find it hard to argue with that. To try is to blindfold yourself and deny that the league table presents the reality of what happened, rather than what we would've liked to have happen.

BUT

Just cos he couldn't coach doesn't mean he's not good at identifying and securing talent. We're now doing supermarket sweep and reheating targets we first approached when Mourinho was here. Surely Ralf could've come up with a better list than what we're likely to end up signing.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I agree his pedigree is better than Murtough but this is Manutd and there is no way the Glazers will allow someone they cannot control have any power.

We can get the best manager, best DoF, best players but it would make no difference as long as we are owned by the Glazers.

Under proper ownership, we would hire the right personnel and each would have to take responsibility.

Under the current model, no one apart from the manager takes the responsibility, not the sporting director, not the players.

Finally something we can agree 100% on. The reason many supporters thought that Ralfs pressers were a fresh of breath air was because he was basically calling out the club on matters many of us had ideas on but weren't confirmed. Others thought he shouldn't of done it but for me personally the more dirty linen brought out in public the more people could see exactly how much of a shambles the club really are in the most basic matters.

The Glazers may have spent a lot of money but as you said they want people in positions of power that aren't held accountable for their actions as they basically only have the Glazers interests at heart and not Manchester Uniteds.

All this internal hiring doesn't bode well for the future as its proving that nothing has changed even if we have got rid of some key personnel which is why I'm miffed about Ralf being let go. I really do fear for us.

 

[Raees]

It's 50/50 for 4th place with Ligue 1.

Ridiculous statement.

 

[Boavista]

I am not saying he is poor at finding players, people think that every player he finds is a gem.
What about players like:
Davie Selke
Carlos Eduardo
Josup Simunic
Kevin Kurnayi

People only talk about successful signings, never the list of players that have failed.

In respects to sporting director, no other big club has given him that role, there is a reason for that.

What he showed in his interim spell is that he is good at giving the talk, very poor at walking the walk.
Atinc Nukan
Rafinia
Tyler Adams
Will Obran

Players like Alaba, Smith Rowe were on loan, are we crediting him for loaning players?

I don't see what that list of players is supposed to say? Of course not every Rangnick signing was a success but most of those listed were good signings for their respective clubs.

Carlos Eduardo in particular was great for Hoffenheim if I recall correctly, and important in their very impressive first season in the Bundesliga. Simunic I think performed as expected for an experienced signing. I don't know to what extent Rangnick was responsible for signings when he managed Hoffenheim, but in general they had quite a few cheap players that went on to be successful for them (Luiz Gustavo, Ibisevic, Demba Ba, Salihovic, Obasi etc), even if overall they spent a fair bit relative to other lower league sides.

Kuranyi was good for Schalke, Rafinha even very good. Orban continues to be important for Leipzig despite being signed when they were still in the 2.Bundesliga, while Adams was a decent squad player who they've sold for a good profit to Leeds.

 

[Sviken]

Rather have the incompetent nepotistic buffoons in charge instead of someone that actually knows what he is doing. I was so excited that the club might have finally gone in the right direction and started taking this shit seriously, but who am I kidding? This will never get fixed as long as the Glazers are in charge.

 

[Loon]

I wonder if the Austria job had not come along would he have still been there?

 

[M Bison]

Wasn’t the Caf consensus at the time he left that it was the right time for him to exit and that he’d done nothing for the club? Presume it’s just the season opener has changed everyone’s outlook…

 

[The United]

My opinion on his time might be a bit different to many others.

His constant public dirty laundering and not getting to the top four cost us this summer much more than anything he did or would have done us good if he had stayed. The club's reputation was severely hurt in public more than necessary.

We have a bunch of people who thought that the club should be burnt down to start over and good players will still join. Now not only good players don't want to join because of no CL but also now that some of them think we are unstable suddenly this summer. We have been through a lot in the past few years, but this is a new low even after fresh new appointments to restructure the club.

Obviously, not his fault entirely. Whoever decided to hire him without looking at the bigger picture was mostly to blame for it.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The biggest problem isn't letting him go, it's not listening to his recommendation of a proper footballing man like Paul Mitchell.

Edit: While I think he is insanely overrated by some, and was overawed by the league as a manager, he wasn't completely wrong, and knew that our structure was a mess.

 

[Greck]

Wasn’t the Caf consensus at the time he left that it was the right time for him to exit and that he’d done nothing for the club? Presume it’s just the season opener has changed everyone’s outlook…

There's absolutely no way these are the same group of people. There has always been a huge divide in opinion on Rangnick. There won't be anything like a consensus anytime soon. Plus the rest on the fence are allowed to change their minds especially as the new season gives more information.

 

[The United]

The biggest problem isn't letting him go, it's not listening to his recommendation of a proper footballing man like Paul Mitchell.

He does not fit in with us in any position available. He should have never been hired in that role (interim manager/consultant) as well. Our DOF might prove people wrong later, but I was never really impressed with him in that role, which is a bigger problem for us than whether Ralf was right or wrong about the club. To be fair, a lot of posters of CAF have been right about how shit we are at running the club. You don't need too much insight for it.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

The biggest problem isn't letting him go, it's not listening to his recommendation of a proper footballing man like Paul Mitchell.

Totally agree with this. But his player recommendations ignored is costing us dearly.

 

[Rightnr]

My opinion on his time might be a bit different to many others.

His constant public dirty laundering and not getting to the top four cost us this summer much more than anything he did or would have done us good if he had stayed. The club's reputation was severely hurt in public more than necessary.

We have a bunch of people who thought that the club should be burnt down to start over and good players will still join. Now not only good players don't want to join because of no CL but also now that some of them think we are unstable suddenly this summer. We have been through a lot in the past few years, but this is a new low even after fresh new appointments to restructure the club.

Obviously, not his fault entirely. Whoever decided to hire him without looking at the bigger picture was mostly to blame for it.

You seem to be under the impression we have a less than shite reputation both at the continent and in England. You are wrong.

Ralf just gave you an idea of how this club is viewed by outsiders but people like you just fail to listen. The Glazers obviously didn't like it because he wasn't a fecking poodle manager like OGS and would have insisted on shit being done right (in his opinion).

 

[clarkydaz]

I wonder if the Austria job had not come along would he have still been there?

from what i recall, Rangnick was the one pushing for a longer role than 6 months, not the club. The club dont seem to want outside influence, just their own little clique

 

[The United]

You seem to be under the impression we have a less than shite reputation both at the continent and in England. You are wrong.

Ralf just gave you an idea of how this club is viewed by outsiders but people like you just fail to listen. The Glazers obviously didn't like it because he wasn't a fecking poodle manager like OGS and would have insisted on shit being done right (in his opinion).

We were in and out of CL and a bit shit before this summer for a long time and everyone knew we were run badly. Yet, we were able to sign good players and a fecking poodle manager like OGS was able to sign decent players. But suddenly, it became too difficult for us to get 'good' players due to no CL plus the club being not stable this summer. Are these true? Of course. But you don't open every terrible thing about your house to the public. That's not how you do the business. The club is paying terribly for it now. How did that help?

 

[Rayman96]

I'm sorry but I do not agree with this.

When Ole was manager we had the chance to sign Bellingham and Haaland. Some people make it seem like Ralf is the only person who can unearth gems.

Yes, I do actually think if we signed Haaland they would be sold on, that is the exact reason they go to these clubs knowing they will get sold.

There was a reason why Haaland insisted on a buy out clause.

 

[Rightnr]

We were in and out of CL and a bit shit before this summer. And a fecking poodle manager like OGS was able to sign decent players. But suddenly, it became too difficult for us to get 'good players' due to no CL plus the club being not stable. Are these true? Of course. But you don't open every terrible thing about your house to the public. That's not how you do the business. The club is paying terribly for it now. How did that help?

OGS did not get CL in his first season, barely made it in his 2nd due to Leicester collapsing and would have missed out last year if we were crazy enough to keep him.

So none of your points make sense.

 

[Beans]

Wasn’t the Caf consensus at the time he left that it was the right time for him to exit and that he’d done nothing for the club? Presume it’s just the season opener has changed everyone’s outlook…

I think we all agreed he wasn't the right manager, but some of us were more interested in his qualities in a DOF sort of position, or giving advice to the DOF. His ability to identify top young players on the cheap is as good as anyone in football, that's what I was excited about.

When ETH showed little interest in his input people suggested he had his own extensive network of contacts and talented young, cheap players would be incoming.

But so far there's a bizarre trend of picking targets that ETH has personally managed, or who have played for Ajax, or in the Netherlands. It hints at a very limited network of contacts, and so far our buying seems to be anemic.