Rangnick for next season or Poch in the summer?

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

If anybody had any doubts to how overrated he is they have been assuaged by his brilliant performance at PSG where he took over a team that was top of the table in a 1 horse race and managed to finish 2nd and has through 12 months in the job achieved a significantly poorer points per game performance than both Tuchel and Emery before him despite having an even better squad.

Not to get too deep into this because I see a whole bunch of people have already picked your posts in this thread apart (got a good chuckle out of Dean Smith apparently being a better manager than Pochettino), but just going to point out since you've chosen to focus on points per game:

1) The difference between Pochettino's points per game at PSG (2.33) vs Tuchel (2.37) and Emery (2.37) is really quite minor. Very curious use of "significantly"

2) Pochettino actually averaged significantly more points per game in the league than Tuchel last season (2.24 vs 2.06). So we'll leave it open for discussion who actually lost the 1-horse race

3) Pochettino's performances in that four-year spell from 2015 to 2019 are the textbook definition of over-achieving if you actually understand how to apply context to the transfer and wage spending across the league - and your posts tell me you don't. Instead of focusing on "300 million spent" (in 5 years) as if that's a massive amount of money relative to the competition (it's not), go back and check the difference in Tottenham's spending (particularly on wages, which are the clearly established key factor correlated with league performance) compared with ours, Chelsea's and City's (even Arsenal and Liverpool were way ahead of them) across those four seasons. Then you'll understand why people rate him as a manager for consistently competing with these teams and finishing above at least 2 of them.

 

[HailtotheKing]

looking back it would've been better if we could've kept Ole on a short-term deal until a great choice became available

similarly when Giggs was interim after Moyes left, just keep him there until a big name (maybe Klopp) is available then make the change

I feel like we're in that sort of position now - we should keep Ralph until a great manager is available, then make the switch

I think Poch is a good manager, but not sure if he's a great one so I'd rather wait

Yeah, but our board is lazy. Maybe it's different now with Arnold, Murtaugh, and Fletcher but in the past we've shown ourselves to be incredibly lazy, always taking the easy option and praying for the best. How else can you explain giving Moyes a 6-year deal when 3 would have sufficed, or extending Ole's contract when it was already clear he wasn't the one? No one was after Ole, a smarter move would've been a 1-year extension. Hell, they shouldn't have even made him permanent before the end of the season in the first place. But rather than go through the promised extensive search, they just did what they felt the fans would like best. And now, like you said, we're in the same position. They're gonna choose Poch. It's an easy, low work decision. Wouldn't even surprise me if they appoint him the second PSG fire him, without even interviewing ETH. Poch is the one. They wanted him then and they want him now. Only Ralf can save us. If he has any power, which I doubt. Because we're run by muppets. But not the good, transfer kind.

 

[Gandalf]

Not to get too deep into this because I see a whole bunch of people have already picked your posts in this thread apart (got a good chuckle out of Dean Smith apparently being a better manager than Pochettino), but just going to point out since you've chosen to focus on points per game:

1) The difference between Pochettino's points per game at PSG (2.33) vs Tuchel (2.37) and Emery (2.37) is really quite minor. Very curious use of "significantly"

2) Pochettino actually averaged significantly more points per game in the league than Tuchel last season (2.24 vs 2.06). So we'll leave it open for discussion who actually lost the 1-horse race

3) Pochettino's performances in that four-year spell from 2015 to 2019 are the textbook definition of over-achieving if you actually understand how to apply context to the transfer and wage spending across the league - and your posts tell me you don't. Instead of focusing on "300 million spent" (in 5 years) as if that's a massive amount of money relative to the competition (it's not), go back and check the difference in Tottenham's spending (particularly on wages, which are the clearly established key factor correlated with league performance) compared with ours, Chelsea's and City's (even Arsenal and Liverpool were way ahead of them) across those four seasons. Then you'll understand why people rate him as a manager for consistently competing with these teams and finishing above at least 2 of them.

1. I concede the point on significantly but it is still less PPG and the others didn’t have Messi

2. Nothing to leave open. They were top of the league when Tuchel left and finished second after Poch worked his magic.

3. Did not say he had as much to spend as City or us, just pointing out that the constant narrative that he built a great team out of East End street urchins is laughably false.

If you think Dean Smith is funny I am sure you will be rolling when I compare Poch to Ranieri.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Not good enough for Southampton, spurs and PSG..
Glazers: thats all you gotta say man!

 

[calodo2003]

RR

 

[Wilt]

Too early to decide.

Utd are still in the middle of an ‘easy’ run of fixtures. Interested to see how RR manages next month …City, Spurs, Atletico, Liverpool

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

All too early.

If Poch wins the CL he will be a genius. If not, a terrible appointment.

If Ten Hag wins 2 CL knock out rounds he will be Labelled a genius.

 

[The Constant Gardener]

The problem at United is that we are supposed to be a European football giant, excellence in all areas of the club but that isn't the case with the coaching staff who are mostly learning as they go.

Murtaugh, Fletcher, Carrick et al, they are all inexperienced in terms of coaching players. What's worse is the people that appoint them are also inexperienced, Woodward and Arnold know nothing about soccerball (they are rugby guys) and so the situation isn't getting any better.


Ralf is a top class coach with tons of experience, he would know exactly what to do here to turn things around. I would love to see him take the reins for a couple of years, clear out the deadwood, set the prevailing attitude and culture at the club then move upstairs to the Director of Football role where he can have a say in the running of the club and the new coach.

 

[sunama]

Why would we want Poch? He’s not better than Klopp or Pep so what’s the point, if our goal is to win the league then we need a manager who can compete.

I think the idea is to take us from a side competing for 4th place, to a side competing for 2nd or 3rd.
After Poch has had his stint, we hire another manager to take us to the top. By that time, Pep and Klopp may have left their clubs, giving us a chance.
The odds of Poch joining in the Summer and challenging for the title are extremely low.

 

[Artorias]

Ralf for me.

 

[Kaos]

The prospect of Poch garners as much enthusiasm from me as Rodgers would, and the latter arguably has a better relative track record in his career which says something. It would be a depressingly unambitious appointment.

For me its either Eric Ten Hag or Rangnick for one more season. Anything else would be deeply underwhelming.

 

[Tallis]

I can’t see board sticking with RR so realistically the choice is Poch or someone else. Depends on who that other person is. Poch helped Spurs to some impressive league finishes but has plenty of chinks in the armour. What was shocking was the unimpressive list of players he signed at Spurs. Every half decent player he had was signed before his time.

 

[MackRobinson]

People act as if Spurs were a mid-table side before Pochettino took over. The 5 years prior to his hiring their worst league position was 6th and they qualified for the Champions League twice. He did well at Spurs but let's not pretend as if they were West Ham before Moyes.

 

[foolsgold]

If it's a forced choice then I'd rather stick with Ralf, but neither are my first choice at this point. Rather have ETH.

 

[Sultan]

No idea who's a better coach behind the scenes. We can't go by trophy cabinets as both lack in that respect. Ralf's football has been underwhelming since he's been at the club. Let's give him time and wait if that improves over the season before making judgements.

 

[AndySmith1990]

I'm warming to the idea of sticking with Ralf for another season. I like his style.

 

[jackal&hyde]

RR. I see the same potential issues with Poch that Ole had: to much of a nice guy that would have trouble dealing with superstars and in case of big setbacks he can lose the group like it happened at Spurs. I also see him as a bit of a one trick pony in terms of tactics as this is the element imo that made him choke at Spurs every time he came close to winning something and eventually leading to losing the trust of the squad. His transfer record is also very poor.

 

[Water Melon]

No idea who's a better coach behind the scenes. We can't go by trophy cabinets as both lack in that respect. Ralf's football has been underwhelming since he's been at the club. Let's give him time and wait if that improves over the season before making judgements.

I am with Sultan on this one. Let's see where we are by the end of the season, before making our judgements.

 

[Adisa]

Rangnick easily.

 

[Castia]

Poch without a doubt

 

[Castia]

What exactly does Poch offer better than Ralf ? Genuine question. I asked the same question in a different thread but no Poch fans seems to be explaining it.

RR above Poch for me.

Poch core strengths. (Exception of PSG)

team punches above the weight.
Great with young players.
High pressing.
marauding full backs.

RR also provides the same thing . So I seriously can't see Poch an upgrade.

Let’s be honest Ralf has had United playing ok in about 2 games the rest have been really poor regardless of the result

 

[DRJosh]

In the world of football, you can be a **** hero and a villain within the space of a week. I wouldn’t mind either managers to be honest

 

[saivet]

It seems the winter break and Ralf's interviews have made some forget about what we've seen on the pitch under him. He doesn't even have a better coaching CV than Poch either. Not a massive fan of Poch but I'd 100% have him over another season of Ralf.

 

[Real Name]

Ragnick.

 

[dove]

Obsession with Rangnick is weird in this forum to say the least.

 

[Lyng]

Neither to be honest. I want Rangnick to move on the consultant role and ETH as our new manager. Poch is such an underwhelming choice.

 

[altodevil]

where hag

 

[Frank Grimes]

I think a lot of reason people don't want Pochettino is that he is not shiny and new like ETH as he managed Southampton and Spurs already in the Premier League. It's a similar reason Conte (a proven winner) was dismissed by the majority of United fans.

 

[AneRu]

I think a lot of reason people don't want Pochettino is that he is not shiny and new like ETH as he managed Southampton and Spurs already in the Premier League. It's a similar reason Conte (a proven winner) was dismissed by the majority of United fans.

No we want to move to a progressive style of play that focuses on dominant attacking football something Poch hasn't done in a long time and is failing to do with a star studded PSG side playing in a one team league where no other team should have a realistic chance of competing with them. In my view, how he failed at Tottenham, in the end, shouldn't be discounted either because it was very very poor. What we need is a manager on the upward trajectory who comes in with new ideas and a fresh approach.

 

[JPRouve]

I think a lot of reason people don't want Pochettino is that he is not shiny and new like ETH as he managed Southampton and Spurs already in the Premier League. It's a similar reason Conte (a proven winner) was dismissed by the majority of United fans.

That's a bit dismissive. Pochettino is simply seen as one of the competent manager that isn't really a proven winner and hasn't really shown much since 2018-2019. An other thing about Pochettino that I find baffling is that his continental record is terrible outside of the CL final Tottenham have been underwhelming especially in Europa League.

 

[Telsim]

Definitely stick with Rangnick then.

Pochettino is an insanely overrated slightly above average manager. His ceiling is a club like Tottenham and even there he fell apart in the end. He will be more comfortable at Everton/Leicester/Villa type of club. He can definitely overachieve with them. But he has no business managing top flight clubs, much less this club. Man just isn't good enough.

Stick with Rangnick and wait for Enrique.

 

[Mainoldo]

A proper top class manager or interim well spoken Ralf

Let’s all vote for a proper top class manager lads. It was only the other day many thought Ole was onto something.

Come on.. Ralf isn’t taking us anywhere fast. More Fred and McTominay next season with a plea to get Hidaira. No thank you.

 

[McUnited]

If Rangnick were to continue, I would’ve expected a signing in January. Since there wasn’t, someone else is most likely coming in.

 

[Ixion]

It is impossible to judge Ralf yet. Ole started his interim spell winning every game then by the end of the season we lost something like 6 in 8.

He's doing a good job, hopefully we don't have any nightmare spells where we lose a few in a row and by the end of the season we've challenged for top 4 and had a good run in the CL/FA Cup.

Come May Ralf, Poch or Ten Hag may have won the Champions League which would influence things a lot.

 

[Frank Grimes]

No we want to move to a progressive style of play that focuses on dominant attacking football something Poch hasn't done in a long time and is failing to do with a star studded PSG side playing in a one team league where no other team should have a realistic chance of competing with them. In my view, how he failed at Tottenham, in the end, shouldn't be discounted either because it was very very poor. What we need is a manager on the upward trajectory who comes in with new ideas and a fresh approach.

That's a bit dismissive. Pochettino is simply seen as one of the competent manager that isn't really a proven winner and hasn't really shown much since 2018-2019. An other thing about Pochettino that I find baffling is that his continental record is terrible outside of the CL final Tottenham have been underwhelming especially in Europa League.

That doesn't explain why Conte got so few votes in next manager thread. Shiny new toy syndrome (SNTS) is real.
I would prefer ETH too but some of the dismissal of Pochettino is over the top in my opinion. The fact that Rangnick (who most hadn't heard of 3 months ago) is seen as superior choice further reinforces my belief that SNTS affects fans.

This isn't a dig at Rangnick either and I am open to the idea that he can still improve us. If he improves us significantly between now and the end of the season then by all means he can continue as our manager and I'd prefer him over Poch. If Rangnick was to scrape top 4 and there was little sign of change in our play I'd take Pochettino over him.
One thing that is not mentioned and is important imo is how being an interim can have a negative effect on team stability. Players are willing to push the envelope in ways they wouldn't dare with a permanent manager.(almost like substitution teacher effect). The sooner we appoint a permanent manager the better.

 

[romufc]

There probably are 1 or 2 because these things move in cycles, but no idea who they are.

So you don't know but will rule out Poch? On what premise?

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I can't say who I prefer between RR & Poch

I am not averse to RR staying beyond the summer (of course RR must keep improving the side in the coming weeks/months and no capitulation during the 2nd half of the season and securing top 4 at minimum).

I also don't mind Poch taking over in the summer, he has done pretty well in the PL with Southampton & Spurs

 

[troylocker]

Again with the trophies! He was manager of Spurs! And he was expected to win a trophy because he had Harry Kane?

He was competing against 5-6 sides with higher salary budgets and, at times, many more than that who spent bigger in transfer windows.

The mark of a manager at Spurs will never be how many trophies they have won. They are not in the top 5 choices for any trophies season after season. Why is there an expectation there given their budget?

He was 90 minutes away from winning the Champions League with Spurs, of all teams, and a Winks/Sissoko midfield?

The fact that they tailed off after nearly 5 years says more about Levy and his penny pinching than anything else. He never had the squad to compete with the big teams.

If you are waiting for someone to crop up with a better performance from a team with Spurs budget in a top league, you will be waiting a long time.

PSG doesn’t prove anything and Tuchel didn’t have the best form before he left, while Lille had a fantastic season. It wasn’t all down to Poch that they didn’t win last year. He is currently 11 points clear though, so there’s that.

I just can't get my head around this blind fascination for Poch the manager and the need to defend the claim that he is this flawless world class manager. He managed to take 1 point out of 6 against Lille in Ligue 1 last season, so the Ligue 1 title was all in his hands. He also managed to lose against Lorient, Nantes and Monaco and lose points againt St. Etienne and Rennes. He manages a club with 4 x the resources of the closest rival in the Ligue, but you manage to actually claim (and mean it) that him not winning the league was down to Lille having a fantastic season, after giving us the lecture about how winning trophies with Spurs was an impossible task........

Absolutely mindblowing!

Do you think PSG is looking convincing with him behind the wheels? (probably the strongest squad in the world on paper)
After 13 months in the club he is already a dead man walking there.

Taking So'ton to 7th and improving Spurs was good stuff, but not worthy of this blind admiration. He has so much to thank Lloris, Kane, Eriksen, Son and young Alli for.
That Spurs CL run was one of the luckiest we have seen, tbf.

 

[James35]

100% Poch.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

I wonder how many of you post in the match day thread and complain bitterly about how United are playing and yet still choose RR over Poch ?

It seems its anyone but Poch these days.

Lets hope Steve Bruce does not win a few games at WBA otherwise we will be having a Bruce or Poch thread at some point.