Juve sad CL finals record but first team to win them titles all (triple crown and more debate)
Ranking of trophies in order of importance
- Thread starter P-Nut
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
If you could award points to the various trophies to indicate their importance I would award them as follows,
Champions League...............10 pts.
Premier League ................8pts.
F.A. Cup ............... 5pts.
League Cup ...............3pts.
All Others ...............1 pt.
Champions League...............10 pts.
Premier League ................8pts.
F.A. Cup ............... 5pts.
League Cup ...............3pts.
All Others ...............1 pt.
Champions League
Premier League
F.A. Cup
Europa League
Super Cup
League Cup
Premier League
F.A. Cup
Europa League
Super Cup
League Cup
Champions League
Premier League
FA Cup
Europa League
Super Cup
Club World Cup
League Cup
Community Shield
Premier League
FA Cup
Europa League
Super Cup
Club World Cup
League Cup
Community Shield
Add Europa League with 7 pts.
PL/CL 10 points - I'd prefer to alternate there
EL 8
FA 7
LC 4
EL 8
FA 7
LC 4
Didn't realise that Chelsea had won the European Cup Winners Cup. Nonetheless only 4 teams have done it in the entire history of football and so it is a very exclusive achievement, and not one that can easily be emulated because of the fact that the Cup Winners Cup is no longer active.
It is a bit like a football version of a grand slam. We should try our very best to achieve it this season and I would say the Europa League has to take priority over both domestic cups as well as the league, though it would be good to win more than one competition.
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
Europa League
League Cup
Club World Cup/Super Cup/Community Shield are either friendly competitions or meaningless, with the former played against sides that would struggle to play at Level 6 in our pyramid.
Champions League
FA Cup
Europa League
League Cup
Club World Cup/Super Cup/Community Shield are either friendly competitions or meaningless, with the former played against sides that would struggle to play at Level 6 in our pyramid.
If we are going by this season and at this present moment, it definitely has to be:
1. Europa League > Winning it gives us direct entry to the Champions League and we are comfortably the best team left in the competition
2. League Cup > Just because we are already in the final
3. FA Cup > The FA Cup is what symbolize Man Utd back in the early days and I fondly remember how Ferguson's job was saved because he won us the FA Cup, we are tied with Arsenal with winning the most FA Cup trophies in history and it would be amazing if we can defend our trophy and get one over Arsenal. Beating Chelsea and potentially Tottenham/City/Arsenal to win the cup is also a fantastic achievement, given our poor record against the top 6 in the league.
4. Premier League > We won't win the league this season and we still have an outside chance of making top 4, albeit difficult given the circumstances. Many people seem so fixated on Top 4 but at the end of the day, this is just a league position which grants you entry to the Champions League. We have a great chance to qualify to the Champions League directly if we win our most important trophy this season, as I've said, we should go all out in the Europa League.
Personally, I will always rank a cup competition more important than the league if we are not gonna win the league. There's really no difference between 2nd and 4th.
1. Europa League > Winning it gives us direct entry to the Champions League and we are comfortably the best team left in the competition
2. League Cup > Just because we are already in the final
3. FA Cup > The FA Cup is what symbolize Man Utd back in the early days and I fondly remember how Ferguson's job was saved because he won us the FA Cup, we are tied with Arsenal with winning the most FA Cup trophies in history and it would be amazing if we can defend our trophy and get one over Arsenal. Beating Chelsea and potentially Tottenham/City/Arsenal to win the cup is also a fantastic achievement, given our poor record against the top 6 in the league.
4. Premier League > We won't win the league this season and we still have an outside chance of making top 4, albeit difficult given the circumstances. Many people seem so fixated on Top 4 but at the end of the day, this is just a league position which grants you entry to the Champions League. We have a great chance to qualify to the Champions League directly if we win our most important trophy this season, as I've said, we should go all out in the Europa League.
Personally, I will always rank a cup competition more important than the league if we are not gonna win the league. There's really no difference between 2nd and 4th.
No question. Champions League is the most important. Premier League is second. Why?
- Top top players want Champions League football. And we as United fans want top top players.
- Big tournaments are a bigger draw for fans. Even City can sell out a CL knockout match.
- There is more prestige and glory playing against other top European giants and beating them.
- Almost all participating teams have a realistic shot at winning the Champions League.
- PL has only four or five teams who can realistically win the title.
- The CL is more competitive and more difficult.
- We're lacking in the CL trophy department compared to our PL titles.
- Winning five will shut Liverpool fans up about their "5 times" nonsense.
- (Subjective) CL trophy is nicer.
Most people have it spot on, Shield, Super Cup and Club World Cup are bottom three. I think I'd have FA Cup over Europa League still most of the time, as the latter is always a last resort kind of thing.
However, this season presents a bit of an anomaly as the FA Cup is probably behind everything else this time, especially with an away trip to Chelsea in the last 8. League Cup is currently top of the list as it is the next game and a huge building block. Then, Top 4 and Europa. Love us to do the lot of course, but FA Cup can be sacrificed this season if we win on Sunday and look good for the others.
However, this season presents a bit of an anomaly as the FA Cup is probably behind everything else this time, especially with an away trip to Chelsea in the last 8. League Cup is currently top of the list as it is the next game and a huge building block. Then, Top 4 and Europa. Love us to do the lot of course, but FA Cup can be sacrificed this season if we win on Sunday and look good for the others.
CL is important but it is not the main factor in attracting players. Money is much more important in determining the stature of a club - a club is considered a "big club" because it has financial strength not CL Football.
Similarly, you can ask any player whether they would prefer to sign for Chelsea or Liverpool as opposed to Sevilla, I guarantee you 100% of them would not give a damn about the CL.
That's a bit harsh on the CWC really, I think a more realistic assessment is that it is a notch below the Europa League but more important than the domestic cups or the Euro Super Cup.
Perhaps I should have worded it better. I meant top players want CL football in the sense they want to win the trophy. Zlatan and Pogba want that, I'm sure of it. That's (one of the primary reasons) why the giant clubs have the lure that they do. Not only do they win domestically, but they are competing for European honors too. We may not be in the CL now but it's no question that we are aiming to be back among the top competing clubs in Europe, and quickly. That along with our huge paychecks are what attracts the super stars.
None of them actually. Juve, Ajax, Bayern and Chelsea are the 4 clubs who did it.
I can't help but agree. I love the fact that our two CL wins were in years we also won the league. 'Champions of England, Champions of Europe' is as good as it gets.
In terms of importance on their own I'd have to go:
Champions League
Premier League
Europa League
FA Cup
League Cup
Club World Cup (just; because of the daft badge you get to wear on your shirt, the competition itself is a pile of rubbish)
Super Cup
Community Shield
Personally I only feel the yearning for CL when we're riding high in the league. I've felt being out of contention for our domestic league a hell of a lot more than I've missed being out of the CL.
For me it's
Champions League / Premier League
Europa League
FA Cup
League Cup / World Club Cup
Super Cup
Community Shield
The thing about the first two is that unlike the rest a club's status is dependent on winning both. League wins build a dynasty while the CL builds global prestige. Case in point AC Milan were seen as being more 'prestigious' than Juve while Juve were seen as being the bigger more important dynasty. In the modern age a team needs both to achieve superpower status.
That old jingle comes to mind - 'you can't have one without the other'.
The exact ranking then comes down to what your own clubs needs at that particular time more. Truth be told Man Utd have underperformed for years and already have established a national dynasty. The club needs CL's more than it needs leagues at the moment. But in the mid to long term the club needs both.
At the end of the day, no matter how many leagues they win a team cannot realistically claim global elite team status (ala Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve) without performing very well in/winning the CL (and the ex Uefa cup). Similarly a team will not be heralded as a dynasty without having dominated their league.
Champions League / Premier League
Europa League
FA Cup
League Cup / World Club Cup
Super Cup
Community Shield
The thing about the first two is that unlike the rest a club's status is dependent on winning both. League wins build a dynasty while the CL builds global prestige. Case in point AC Milan were seen as being more 'prestigious' than Juve while Juve were seen as being the bigger more important dynasty. In the modern age a team needs both to achieve superpower status.
That old jingle comes to mind - 'you can't have one without the other'.
The exact ranking then comes down to what your own clubs needs at that particular time more. Truth be told Man Utd have underperformed for years and already have established a national dynasty. The club needs CL's more than it needs leagues at the moment. But in the mid to long term the club needs both.
At the end of the day, no matter how many leagues they win a team cannot realistically claim global elite team status (ala Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve) without performing very well in/winning the CL (and the ex Uefa cup). Similarly a team will not be heralded as a dynasty without having dominated their league.
This.
Ranking mine on what I enjoy watching.
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
League Cup
Europa League
Community Shield
Club World Cup
Super Cup
Premier League
Champions League
FA Cup
League Cup
Europa League
Community Shield
Club World Cup
Super Cup
Agreed.
Financial strength also comes from playing in the champions league. Case point, Adidas threatening to reduce payments if we failed to qualify for champions league, where do you think United will be financially if we've been absent from champions league for the past 18 years?
Zlatan and Pogba also joined because we are traditionally champions league team and the current events is considered a blip. They hope the club return quick enough. If United fail to participate in champions league for the next 5 years, like of Pogba, DDG and Rashford will want to leave.
This, easily. The last three are glorified friendlies, ranked by the fact that you're facing World, European and English opposition.
Champions League
Premier League
Europa League
Club World Cup - tournament might not be up to much, but to win it you have to have qualified for it.
FA Cup
League Cup
Super Cup
Community Shield
Premier League
Europa League
Club World Cup - tournament might not be up to much, but to win it you have to have qualified for it.
FA Cup
League Cup
Super Cup
Community Shield
Europa League was probably on par with FA Cup a few seasons ago but with confirmed Champions League participation, it has become a fairly important competition.
For me it's:
1. Europa League
2. League Cup
3. Champions League
4. FA Cup
5. Emirates Cup
6. Premier League
1. Europa League
2. League Cup
3. Champions League
4. FA Cup
5. Emirates Cup
6. Premier League
Weird because I'd love to win the champions league more for the club's honours list, but I'm more jealous of Chelseas title win than I was of them winning old big ears.
So I guess it is;
Ucl for rep
Prem from a personal point.
So I guess it is;
Ucl for rep
Prem from a personal point.
Champions League (it's the title EVERY club wants, the PL is a long way behind this in rankings for managers and players).
Premier League
Europa League (I saw a comment above saying the FAC is tougher - what complete bollocks).
FA Cup
League Cup
These three are pointless friendlies and most pre-season tournaments rate higher !
Club World Cup
Super Cup
Community Shield
Premier League
Europa League (I saw a comment above saying the FAC is tougher - what complete bollocks).
FA Cup
League Cup
These three are pointless friendlies and most pre-season tournaments rate higher !
Club World Cup
Super Cup
Community Shield
CL
PL
EL
FA
PL
EL
FA
I'd say
CL: 10 pts
PL: 8 pts
EL: 7 pts (as it gives CL football)
FA: 6 pts
LC: 4 pts
CS: 2 pts
CL: 10 pts
PL: 8 pts
EL: 7 pts (as it gives CL football)
FA: 6 pts
LC: 4 pts
CS: 2 pts
If we go by points:
1) UCL - 20 points
2) EPL - 9 points
3) Europa League - 4 points
4) FA Cup - 3 points
5) Club's World Cup - 2 points
6) League Cup - 1 point
7) European Supercup/Charity Shield - 0 points
1) UCL - 20 points
2) EPL - 9 points
3) Europa League - 4 points
4) FA Cup - 3 points
5) Club's World Cup - 2 points
6) League Cup - 1 point
7) European Supercup/Charity Shield - 0 points
Only one I'd dispute is that the Europa League is more important than the FA Cup. A part of me can't shake the idea that the Europa League will always be a second-tier trophy. Tempted to view it in a better light now that a final awaits, sure, but the entire season has been bittersweet due to constantly reminding myself that the Champions League is the only place for United.
Considering the difficulty level mainly, prestige of competition, and qualification factor slightly,
- Champions League ~ 15 pts.
- Premier League ~ 9 pts.
- Europa League ~ 7 pts.
- FA Cup ~ 5 pts.
- Club's World Cup ~ 4 pts.
- League Cup ~ 3 pts.
- Community Shield & Others ~ 1 pts.
Champions League is the biggest trophy but its no good winning it if you don't win your domestic league to go with it.
Can't really call yourself champions of Europe if somebody finished above you in your own country.
Can't really call yourself champions of Europe if somebody finished above you in your own country.
I really dislike European competition with all the seeding, draw, restrictions, and rich getting guaranteed places (and so many of them!), that I put them both below Premiership and FA Cup, which I still both love. League Cup is pretty meh, and easily at the bottom.
Champions League
Premier League
Europa League
FA Cup
League Cup
Club World Cup
Super Cup
Community Shield
Premier League
Europa League
FA Cup
League Cup
Club World Cup
Super Cup
Community Shield
I dunno, I speak to Real Madrid fans on a regular basis and they seem pretty content to be drowning in European silver. While United are by no means paupers when it comes to European success, Juve and they are forever bringing up the rear when it comes to the elite clubs in Europe. Definitely something that has never sat right with me and certainly wouldn't mind seeing change.
In what way is the FA Cup not a second tier trophy?
Wenger is in his third final in four years after winning it two years in a row and nobody really cares. Van Gaal was sacked despite winning it for United. I honestly think it's barely more significant than the League Cup these days.