We are all only eight games into the season. If United are still struggling like this at Christmas and have a double figures gap on the top challengers and Champions league contenders, the reactions will be much different. Most are giving him time, like he should be afforded, but I think plenty are beginning to get concerned.
Reaction of the fans to Moyes' struggles
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If the players have allowed the mentality under Ferguson to slip under Moyes, then they ought to face the firing squad, because that would be utterly outrageous. Someone needs to get a grip of this unit and remind them that as much of a force as Ferguson was, it was them that saved themselves time and again with comebacks and last minute goals.
In fairness, that sounds like Moyes' job.
You're overlooking the numerous times that Fergie set up not to lose - there's a lot of post-Fergie airbrushing going on.
I can't understand the ones calling for his head, who do they think is going to replace him, there isn't anyone, the good ones have jobs at big clubs. Moyes has to be give a chance, a couple of seasons for him and Woodward to improve the team. Hopefully the team will grasp how he wants them to play. The players have had to get used to not just a new manager but coaching staff as well. It all takes time. He's also making sure who he wants rid off.
Who could that someone be?
I've never seen that under Fergie early in the season at home.
The most cowardly performance I remember under Fergie was away at City a couple of years back where we played scared. It cost us the league.
It's amazing the effect it has. On the flip side, Fergie already looks ten years younger!
I saw an interview with Allardyce and he was laughing about Moyes ageing 10 years already, saying that it's par for the course with management at that level.
That is such revisionist bollocks, Mike. You're telling me that we haven't been conservative, settled for a 1 goal lead only to be caught at the death, gone for solidity over all out attack at any stage in the Fergie years? This line of argument drives me mental. We've been equally shit many many times over the last couple of seasons, have approached games with the same lack of wit or adventure but we got by and we went with it. As soon as the great man's out the door, though, the aura disappears and Moyes is a liability. This is pure fantasy, Mike and serves nobody.
Fergie got plenty of criticism, for exactly the same things. Absence has dimmed peoples memories. The difference is the players were scared stiff of him.
I'm sure Moyes is trying to get into the heads of the players.
As I keep saying though, football has never seen upheaval like this. Moyes has one of the toughest jobs in English football history and should be afforded the support and time to reflect that.
We found a way to win. Fergie was a winner. I don't see that same mentality (yet) from Moyes.
True, but I'm sure you agree that he deserves more than 8 league games before we start to make cast iron judgements as to whether we can be winners under Moyes or not...
This season has been arguably the most competitive so far, with the other top teams strengthening and Moyes didn't get to bring in the players he ideally wanted along with some players having a huge drop in performance from how they played last season. He needs a bit of time and patience. I don't get the thinking of people who think that managers need to earn respect or patience from fans first as it is just making things harder for whoever is the manager of a club. I'm not saying everything he says or does should be praised, but at the same time every single thing he says shouldn't be criticised/scrutinised like I've seen so far. Some of the reaction (on both sides) has been ridiculous.
I have this nagging feeling that he's gonna walk if this continues.
Give him time FFS.. His selections have improved, needs to go for the jugular more.
Of course he deserves more time. I'd review it in the summer, and keep him in the job unless we finish outside the top 4. (Obviously if we are in the bottom half in January or something then we'd probably have to sack him early.)
Jesus, if he walks that quickly then he really isn't the right man for the job. He won't walk, he's been through rough times with Everton too.
I think I've seen complete lunacy on both ends of the spectrum. I've seen people calling for his head already, and I've seen people saying they'd settle for 10th. There seems to be a small group of people who've gone mental and think that we're on course for relegation and unless we sack him immediately we're fecked forever, and then to balance it out there's a group of equally deranged people who think it would be perfectly acceptable for us to finish in the bottom half.
If we're in the bottom half in January, we should sack the entire fecking playing staff too!
I don't get the idea that people seem to be promoting about him getting time no matter what. If he's doing really badly then he has to go sooner rather than later. Just because it worked with Fergie doesn't mean it'll work with everyone, and there's certainly little in Moyes' CV that suggests he's likely to be a success.
Apart from the people that haven't been backing him from the start, even before we kicked a ball, the fans that are changing their tune already are just as bad. We're 8 games into the season and 8 points from the top. Hardly a fecking crisis ffs.
Any decent manager can be successful with the right team. We all know United is definitely the right team. I say give the man a chance. Have a little faith. Things can turn around with just one kickass game that will build everyone's confidence.
We aren't entitled to win every football match, or any given match for that matter. It is inevitable that at some point our successes will start to dwindle. I personally don't think we are at that point yet, but we could be and Liverpool's demise is a stark warning of how quickly the times can change.
Of course I want us to win every game; all of us here do. However, our role isn't to judge, to decide who deserves to be at the club or not. Our role, as 'supporters' is to support the team and enjoy our triumphs. That might be avoiding relegation, qualifying for the champions league, or as we have been so used to in memorable history, winning trophies. Talking about complacency is in my opinion a particularly spoilt perspective.
So long as the individuals that make up the club, from the players to the staff and even to the owners, abide by the ethics of Manchester United, you should stand by them. That's kind of what it's all about. I would say those ethics are a)Promoting a team spirit where the whole is always greater than the parts b)Identifying and supporting talent from a young age and helping them be the best they can be and c)Maintaining a self-funding system that allows continuous investment in the club. Would you agree? Unless you feel any of those ethics are being impeded upon, I think you should have faith in Moyes.
One thing I've learnt from Sir Alex is that if you believe in people, and you support them, they almost always repay your faith.
Don't think the media are helping there, some are making it out to be a crisis and that we have absolutely no chance of making the top 4 never mind winning the league. Some of the teams who are above us will hit a sticky patch. Hopefully we are having ours early.
I think a full season is a fair enough amount of time. I don't get the people saying that they'd take finishing 10th because it's only his first year in charge. If he can't take a title winning squad and finish near the top again then he's not cut out for the job. The problem comes with what people define as near the top. Some people seem to think anything but a title challenge is a failure, others would take top 3, some would take top 4. Personally, I think we'll finish in the top 4 and I'll take that and look at it as a decent platform to build on. I don't think anyone really saw Arsenal strengthening like they did, so if we were to finish behind Chelsea, City and Arsenal it wouldn't be the worst thing. If we were within a couple of points I'd probably even take finishing 5th if we'd managed to put up a fight in other competitions, especially given the money Spurs spent this summer.
Yes, when we're at a match we should obviously be fully behind the team. On a forum the whole point is to discuss the team, and state our opinions about the direction of the club and our reasons for them.
That's sentimental guff. Far more managers fail than succeed at top clubs.
You have to take that into consideration, the upheaval at practically every top side means the league will throw up plenty of surprises. At the same time though, United have practically the same squad that won the league last season. Of course many of our more important players from last season and in general are in the twilight of their careers like Rio, Carrick, van Persie, etc, so we can't simply expect them to sustain the same level of performance this season, but there's has to be a level of expectancy, despite advocating patience with him. I quite frankly think it would be unacceptable for him to stay in the job if we were to finish 5th or 6th and that applies to any title-winning side the season prior to that.
Before the season start I thought it impossible that we would finish below 3rd. I've had to review that, but that is largely Arsenals and possibly Spurs doing, not just us being poor.
If we finish 5th behind Arsenal, Spurs, City and Chelsea then the club need to think about Moyes position. But if they still see in him what they saw when they chose him, then he should stay.
I think its fair to say the club should have allowed him to bring in more of his own players. Barely bringing in Fellaini hasn't given the players, either a kick up the arse or devoted players to listen to. Had he brought with him, say, 3 of his former players to spread the good word, I think it might be different. Which incidently is what Jose has been allowed to do at every club he has been at.
If we finish 5th behind Arsenal, Spurs, City and Chelsea then the club need to think about Moyes position. But if they still see in him what they saw when they chose him, then he should stay.
I think its fair to say the club should have allowed him to bring in more of his own players. Barely bringing in Fellaini hasn't given the players, either a kick up the arse or devoted players to listen to. Had he brought with him, say, 3 of his former players to spread the good word, I think it might be different. Which incidently is what Jose has been allowed to do at every club he has been at.
If I was a Utd fan I would be fuming. There were so many better options out there. Apparently the season is a 'write off' now because Moyes needs time. What a ridiculous, unnecessary situation you've found yourselves in. Especially when there are so many coaches out there who would cruise into the top 4 with this squad.
The one player he's brought with him is going to be more than enough of a noose round his neck.
Those 'better options' though, they'd only have been here for three or four seasons.
Stability was the major reason for Moyes' appointment. A Klopp or Mourinho would've been a hired gun. You should value stability more than most.
I don't think it's wrong to be opposed to Moyes if there's context for it. If we'd appointed someone like say, Martinez, and the results were erratic as a result of him implementing his ideas and style of play, I'd be totally supportive of giving him time. With Moyes, however, there's little to no evidence of any work in progress. There's no discernible style of play nor one being suggested at, he's cowardly, he is making one excuse after another in the press, and most worryingly, he doesn't seem to have the mentality for the job.
The argument always seems to be around here that if we give the manager time, he'll come good. Why will he? Because Ferguson did? Ferguson was a proven winner before he arrived and, honestly, he'd likely have been sacked if it weren't all the behind-the-scenes rebuilding he was integral to at the time. Moyes has no such responsibility. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of managers who are given time shouldn't have been.
I'll also add that I don't like Moyes's treatment of Kagawa, Nani, Zaha and Hernandez. Hernandez, in particular, is a shining example of a footballer and someone who seems to thoroughly love United, yet he's cut a disconsolate figure in the rare times we've seen him this season. I don't like how they're being handled, and frankly, Moyes has done nothing to deserve my loyalty ahead of the players.
The argument always seems to be around here that if we give the manager time, he'll come good. Why will he? Because Ferguson did? Ferguson was a proven winner before he arrived and, honestly, he'd likely have been sacked if it weren't all the behind-the-scenes rebuilding he was integral to at the time. Moyes has no such responsibility. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of managers who are given time shouldn't have been.
I'll also add that I don't like Moyes's treatment of Kagawa, Nani, Zaha and Hernandez. Hernandez, in particular, is a shining example of a footballer and someone who seems to thoroughly love United, yet he's cut a disconsolate figure in the rare times we've seen him this season. I don't like how they're being handled, and frankly, Moyes has done nothing to deserve my loyalty ahead of the players.
Which is ridiculous. Hes been here for 5 premier league games, 2 champions league and 1 league cup that he couldn't take part in. Aka a month.
Anyone honestly think Baines and, say, Barkley would add to the noose in the same way?
Of course we have a large squad; the largest it's ever been I think. Anderson, Giggs and Young possibly need to... ...
Some Arsenal/neutral fans have suggested he be sacked during the past 9 years.
Quite worrying as they are some of our most talented players. The rest I don't quite agree with
He has a strange dislike of Moyes...
Three or four seasons of a top coach working at my club sounds great to me. Sure in an ideal world David Moyes would be another Ferguson and stay at Utd for a decade or more, but Ferguson is in the the mix of the top managers of all time though. Where as Moyes is not even in the mix of the top 5 coaches currently in the PL. There is a HUGE difference and to me, if I was a fan I don't think there is anything wrong with letting your feelings known on the issue.
Never more so than as recently as the opening day of this season.