I don't think Rooney and Van Persie works in the same team unless Rooney is the number 10...and then there's no room for Mata unless he drops further back...and then there's no room for Herrera unless Carrick/Fletcher play as a centreback.
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I have never been a big believer in Rooney and Van Persie as a partnership but I think Van Gaal can make it work. The real issue with the Rooney/Van Persie partnership is that nobody seems to have given either clear instructions about how they should work together. Both Fergie and Moyes seemed to think that they could work it out on the field but Van Gaal is too meticulous for that. Van Gaal will give them both a very clear, very definite role and demand they stick to it. That will help them not to step on each others toes, and know how they should play off and with each other.
Van Persie spent weeks with Holland acclimatising to the #9 role in Van Gaal's 3-5-2, he won't need to learn it again. Plus, throughout pre-season, Rooney has being doing the role Robben played in the Dutch World Cup team. Its early days, but to my eyes, the Robben role has brought the best out of Rooney too. Provided they stick to their defined roles, and Van Gaal won't tolerate anything else with his match cameras tracking their every move, Rooney and Van Persie will function effectively together.
PS) I think a lot Rooney's improvement this pre-season has come from having a manager who gives him unmistakeable orders. There's no talk about playing off the cuff or relying on instinct. Van Gaal has a clear way of playing, all the players say so, and he is just putting square pegs into square spaces according to his philosophy. Rooney's loving it. He's not wandering off around the place, when he drops in Mata instantly exchanges with him. Rooney doesn't have to worry about how things are meant to go and as a result the hesitancy we saw from him last year is gone.
I agree, I'm actually quite positive about their partnership this season, with Mata in behind too.
Why not? they've never played up front with each other in a 442 or a 352 so how can you judge? I think they'll work very well considering they're not just goal scorers but very talented all rounded footballers.
I can't remember the exactly stat but they went something like 24 games and only losing 1 when they both started together. Of course that was before Moyes fecked shit up.
We've seen them plenty of times in a 4-4-2 have we not?
Let's hope it's more Rooney to Robin ala Aston villa rather than Rooney getting in Robins "space".
Tbf the SAS partnership didn't even have half the ability that Rooney and RVP posses. You're right in saying it's goals that count in the grand scheme of things, but with the ability both RVP and Rooney have, you would expect them to be able to play together with much more fluency than they shown last season. If they perform similarly this season, then one of them will be on the bench.
They played up front together in a 442 a few times last season, and it was awful. Might be a bit different with someone in behind them but I just don't think it works in general unless at least one of the two can run in behind and stretch the opposition. Welbeck's the only one of the four who can do that. Hernandez sort of can.
Fairly sure it was 4411, but even if they did play 442 last year with both of them injured and/or out of form and playing under Moyes its not really fair to judge them.
Good post. For now it is all very theoretical (I know it doesn't need saying), with regards to the Rooney-Robben idea & the instructions etc, but I have to agree here. Square pegs into square spaces, as you say - Van Gaal is not going to shoehorn a big name into the side if he thinks it is going to be to the detriment of the side, so he will have his system and play his players in the right position. None of this Moyes business about Rooney being a CB, CM and CF at the same time, with RVP simply expected to 'deal with it' because they're both quality players and should be able to work it out on the pitch themselves. Van Gaal will give them defined roles & they won't spend half of their mental energy on the pitch trying to figure out what they are supposed to be doing.
Van Gaal actually knows his stuff, so I trust he will be able to create a system in which we will see the best of them, whilst also incorporating Mata into the side - if he fails to do this, he will not play the three of them together, and rightly so.
In a 3-5-2 system it can be different though I guess. Rooney doesnt have to do the #10 tasks anymore, in which he isn't that good. He can stay further up front with RvP with Mata or Kagawa feeding them. This could be crucial imo.
No there were a fair few games where they were both pushed right up top and it definitely didn't work at all.
Why is it unfair to judge them? It's definitely a better judgement for example, than assuming they can play in that system based on absolutely nothing at all.
Also, I can't think of any example of this working without either one striker playing as a no10, or one or both being pacey run in behind types.
Please stay fit and bag 25 goals this season.
I think it was a system issue. You can't put it all on Van Persie and Rooney when everything about our team was flawed. The team as a whole lacked fluency. The defense distributed poorly and hesitated under pressure, the midfield was non existent and we haven't had an inform winger since 2012.
Its easier to get into a good flow when your whole team is clicking. When everyone is passing well, moving well it opens up space for the forwards and it gives them momentum to carry on good moves higher up the pitch. As long as both strikers are playing well and scoring goals i couldn't careless if they passed to each other twice a match. Strikers are selfish and egotistical by nature so you can't expect them to be as selfless as a midfielder in and around the box.
It wasn't just two top strikers in great form, there genuinely was a partnership there and this was something that clicked instantly when Sturridge went to Liverpool in January. You could just see this with their general play in runs, passing and off the ball movement. Rooney and Van Persie at their very best would be fantastic, but still not have a partnership like that. Sometimes it just happens and sometimes it doesn't. But you are right, partnerships are overrated and as long our strikers produce the goods individually, we are good to go
I don't think it was tbh. They rarely passed the ball to each other and stats showed that in many games they only passed to each other 2 to 3 times during the whole game. If both Rooney and Van Persie start scoring goals galore next season and create the odd assist for each other i can guareentee that fans and the english media will be waxing lyrical about their so called partnership. Suarez and Sturridge didn't even like each other, Carragher has come out and said that Suarez bullied Sturridge last season.
Agree with this post. If either of the two weren't as clinical, you can be damn sure the 'SAS' wouldn't have ever be coined.
I'm not sure it was a system issue, though, because we all saw how good Rooney and Welbeck linked up in the few games RVP was out last season.
Personally, I hope Van Gaal can get the best out of the two as a partnership, but like you said, as long as they're both banging in goals, it shouldn't really matter.
So he is probably missing couple matches in Prem due to a WC fatigue and getting fit again routine.
Wonder what's up with Welbz if he is injured too, might be a late chance for Nani, Chicharito, even Zaha maybe.
Wonder what's up with Welbz if he is injured too, might be a late chance for Nani, Chicharito, even Zaha maybe.
Manchester United's Robin van Persie OUT for start of Premier League season says Van Gaal
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...niteds-robin-van-persie-3954849#ixzz39JywNgSm
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...niteds-robin-van-persie-3954849#ixzz39JywNgSm
This.
First game that comes to mind is when we beat City away 2-3, Wayne scored two and Robin got the lucky winner. Both played excellently in one of the most difficult matches of the season. But under SAF there were numerous examples of Wayne and Robin linking up very well and playing together perfectly. We even played a couple of matches with Rooney-Chicha-RVP upfront and it worked out. But Rooney and RvP are so incredibly talented, in the right tactical set-up they'll perform for sure.
Also, Rooney played at bit more as a #10 for SAF when playing with RvP, while the 3-5-2 system basically forces them to both play a free role upfront. At the World Cup, I actually remember Van Gaal mentioning how Robben and RvP shouldn't waste too much energy on tracking back and all, because they need to stay upfront and make things happen there. So the moment they're both fit and have Mata or Kagawa or whoever behind them it'll be
Suits Welbeck too, so if Rooney gets a knock, RvP and Welbeck is an excellent pairing.I reckon he'll make his first game of the season in the 2nd Round of the Capital One Cup (Between Matchday 2 & 3)
Btw when was the last time that he had to play in the 2nd Round of the COC???
Btw when was the last time that he had to play in the 2nd Round of the COC???
Van Persie has never had to play the 2nd round of the league cup
United last played it in like 97 or 98 I think, before they changed it so European qualifiers got a by.
I think it's sensible to keep RVP back till he is fully fit as well tbh, no point rushing him back only for him to get injured or not to be at his best, Rooney looks fit & on form so is bound to be the main striker, I would imagine with Wellbeck alongside him, not sure if Hernadez will stay tbh.
Welbeck-Rooney-Mata is working well, which means we don't have to rush RVP back. Ah, the luxuries of having a competent manager...
F*cking hell, and it starts to hit home. Be dreading the middle of September.. when the CL starts.
Just my two cents on the Rooney, Van Persie, Mata conundrum. Unless Mata has the freedom to play in the position that he's been playing in in these pre-season games with no one getting in his way; then there is absolutely no point in him being in the team, on the pitch, or even at the club. I don't think anyone can argue with that.
My second point is more up for debate which is that as I've said many times before on here, for me, Rooney, Van Persie, and Mata just can't play together at the same time on the pitch no matter what system you play. Hopefully I get proven wrong because if they can it would be sensational. But right now, the way I see it, it's just not going to happen unless Rooney goes back to being an out an out striker. That's the only way they can all play at the same time together for me.
My second point is more up for debate which is that as I've said many times before on here, for me, Rooney, Van Persie, and Mata just can't play together at the same time on the pitch no matter what system you play. Hopefully I get proven wrong because if they can it would be sensational. But right now, the way I see it, it's just not going to happen unless Rooney goes back to being an out an out striker. That's the only way they can all play at the same time together for me.
He was voted Chelsea player of the year in season 2012-13 while Oscar played as the number 10?
Van Gaal will get the absolute best out of him, I reckon he still has 2-3 great seasons in him. To think he'd very likely have been long gone now had Moyes stayed.
Mata actually ended up playing a 10 role in a lot of games that season while Oscar drifted out onto the wing or further forward. And that was at Chelsea who play in a different system with different players. This is here. And last season the only games where Mata played really well were the ones where he played in his preferred role.
So we have seen a preseason where Ashley Young has played well at LWB yet people still think players under great coaches can only play/be effective in one position?
If he could play well for Chelsea and Valencia in other positions than 10 (indeed he played various roles at Valencia: on the wing, left midfield, 2nd striker; he only got the No 10 role when David Silva left Valencia), then he can do the same at United with the right manager and system.
He will mostly play as a 10 anyway, but make no mistakes, he is versatile enough to play well in different positions.
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God he is fecking old, hope he really does it for us in the next 2 seasons else he'll be way past it and his transfer will only have been instrumental for one season.
Worth it - Even if it was just to piss Arsenal fans off.
He's 2 goals from 50 at the moment, would be awesome if he hits 100.
Sheringham was older when he was our top scorer, player of the year and crucial to us winning our third title on the trot in 2001.
For me Van Persie has already repaid his transfer fee by guiding us to the 20th title.
RvP was worth his fee alone for our 20th title! Imagine if SAF had retired without winning the title back from City! That would have been horrible!
Oh and I know some ppl love to point out that without RvP other players might have scored his goals - well they might or might not have, but RvP wouldn't have retired but most probably would have joined City instead to win them their 2nd successive title.
Regarding his future prospects, he doesn't rely on pace and as he has had a lot of injuries and therefore was rarely overplayed (the injury bit being a bit like Giggs in his early years with us), I can actually see him on the top for 2-3 years to come.
Oh and I know some ppl love to point out that without RvP other players might have scored his goals - well they might or might not have, but RvP wouldn't have retired but most probably would have joined City instead to win them their 2nd successive title.
Regarding his future prospects, he doesn't rely on pace and as he has had a lot of injuries and therefore was rarely overplayed (the injury bit being a bit like Giggs in his early years with us), I can actually see him on the top for 2-3 years to come.
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