I’m on the cynical negative side but I very much agree, each side annoys the hell out of each other, and those in the ambivalent middle probably can’t stand either of em.
Rome wasn't built in a day
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Why does this matter? How do you know even with lots of things on the CV they could handle it? What if there is a guy out there who is smarter, a better motivator and just capable of making the team perform better and is just waiting his opportunity to show what he can do. Has Jose shown he can handle the job?
Wasn’t he fired at his last job when he was 15th or something?
Also Ancelotti..
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Agreed 100%.
There is progression, but it needs to be faster, which is why I said that I'd like to see Jose experiment with more attacking tactics, for the remainder of this season, so he can use them, from the beginning of next season.
There is no doubt that he needs to tweak the tactics, if he is to win the biggest trophies.
Let's stop looking at CVs and what people have accomplished in the past. It was clear Mourinho's style would never gel with our philosophy. The board dropped the ball massively in allowing city to grab Guardiola without a fight.
Let's look at playing style, philosophy and the way managers conduct themselves. The way they coach players and nurture talent. The big one for me is Pochetinno. He's done great with spurs considering the budget and the squad he took over. Other candidates foe me are Allegei and Sarri.
United need to look ahead. Look at how football is evolving and who's pushing the envelope. Football passed Mourinho by.
Agree with this. Bad timing there.
How has Poch evolved the game? They're heavily reliant on Kane, Ali and Sons individual quality to pull them through most games.
For me when you've got the best striker in the league you should be competing for the title not struggling for top 4
It matters 100% that there is someone waiting to replace a person, when he is sacked.
You can't sack someone and then be manager-less.
As an example, before LVG was let go, Jose was already in talks with MUFC, so within 3 days of LVG's departure, Jose was brought in.
With regards to having a suitable CV: when you employ someone, the very first thing you look at is their past experience...ie. their CV. This is normal for any job. I have done hiring in the past and I would never hire someone for a role, who didn't already have some experience in being successful in a similar role. Placing someone without an appropriate CV, into a role, is reckless. I realise that this may be completely alien to you, but this is normal practise in recruitment. If you think I am making this up, try applying for the role of Chief Executive of a large company. Assuming that you have no prior experience in a similar role, I can almost guarantee that you will not be shortlisted for interview.
It is possible to hire someone with little/no experience in a similar role, but the chances of failure are high. Moyes was an excellent example. Our board expected a man who has never won anything to come to MUFC and win things. The board were inept when making this decision.
By hiring a person who is already performing a similar role, successfully, you increase the chances of that person being successful in his new job.
This could be feasible, but TBH I have never studied how his teams play. He does get results, but then so does Jose, who I would argue, gets better results (ie. more trophies).
He's building Cork though.
I'm not waiting 276 years for us to play decent footy.
Sorry but it doesn't look like we are building Rome... more like a shanty town...
By the way when I said “why does this matter” I was referring to you mentioning the CV part.It matters 100% that there is someone waiting to replace a person, when he is sacked.
You can't sack someone and then be manager-less.
As an example, before LVG was let go, Jose was already in talks with MUFC, so within 3 days of LVG's departure, Jose was brought in.
With regards to having a suitable CV: when you employ someone, the very first thing you look at is their past experience...ie. their CV. This is normal for any job. I have done hiring in the past and I would never hire someone for a role, who didn't already have some experience in being successful in a similar role. Placing someone without an appropriate CV, into a role, is reckless. I realise that this may be completely alien to you, but this is normal practise in recruitment. If you think I am making this up, try applying for the role of Chief Executive of a large company. Assuming that you have no prior experience in a similar role, I can almost guarantee that you will not be shortlisted for interview.
It is possible to hire someone with little/no experience in a similar role, but the chances of failure are high. Moyes was an excellent example. Our board expected a man who has never won anything to come to MUFC and win things. The board were inept when making this decision.
By hiring a person who is already performing a similar role, successfully, you increase the chances of that person being successful in his new job.
This could be feasible, but TBH I have never studied how his teams play. He does get results, but then so does Jose, who I would argue, gets better results (ie. more trophies).
Check your tone and don’t be condescending.
“Placing someone without an appropriate CV, into a role, is reckless. I realise that this may be completely alien to you, but this is normal practise in recruitment. If you think I am making this up, try applying for the role of Chief Executive of a large company. “
Yes anyone with half a brain cell knows how hiring works, what you forget is this is football, most managers have played the game since they were about 4-5 years old so that is we will just say on average 35 years of experience. Helped if you’ve played at high levels of course and you’re intelligent enough to take on more of what is happening at training and your club at a younger age.
Then there is the part about how we aren’t just inserting a nobody, but actually a manager who is well versed in running a football club just doesn’t have the silver yet.
As for names there are lots of promising managers out there which will be knocked back because according to some their CV’s aren’t good enough. Poch for example. A lot of fans only want to see silverware on a CV instead of looking at the broader picture of their achievements.
Now since Jose was sacked from his last job for being 15th I guess that would reflect on our executives for hiring a failure.
I wonder, who would you hire of these 4?
DiMatteo, champions league winner.
Ranieri, Premier league winner.
Martinez, Fa Cup winner.
Pochettino, won nothing
Who would you hire? Would you go with One of the 3 who have winning on their CV?
Also in recent years scince Jose last won the pinnacle of club football hasn’t Zidanne won the CL more times? Has Pep also? I’d have to check that. Both managers didn’t have glittering managerial CV’s beforehand. I just think that in football this “he must have won something” is the height of ignorance.
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2nd in the league, 4 points clear of 3rd and 9 points clear of 5th. Not exactly poor is it, regardless of last nights result.
Everyone was praising Mou after beating Chelsea Palace and then Liverpool and as soon as we lose everyone is back with their knives. We can’t win them all and unfortunately that is just how football is.
SAF won 2 CL titles with United in 27 years. Yet United under Mourinho have only been in one CL campaign. It is too early to be criticising for one poor campaign.
Everyone was praising Mou after beating Chelsea Palace and then Liverpool and as soon as we lose everyone is back with their knives. We can’t win them all and unfortunately that is just how football is.
SAF won 2 CL titles with United in 27 years. Yet United under Mourinho have only been in one CL campaign. It is too early to be criticising for one poor campaign.
I agree with you. We're in the best position we have been in since SAF left.
That is a very simplistic way of looking at things. While it is not gloom and doom, we had the team to beat Sevilla and reach QF. It is a different thing getting beaten by Real/Barca/Bayern and different thing getting beaten by Sevilla at home almost comfortably.
Jose was praised when he got his team, tactics and subs correctly in those PL matches you mentioned. He got it all wrong in a very important match. If he is getting criticized, it is well deserved. This one is on Jose.
If he get it right he's praised to high heaven and anyone questioning him gets mocked and ridiculed, a loss that's entirely his fault in every which way possible and you just cannot criticise the man still, everything requires perspective or some other excuse, the **** of Mourinho on this forum is baffling when it's neither earned or warranted.
Yes, agreed, but this is one game. Doesnt make the season a disaster or call for change in Manager !
A knockout game, in the biggest tournament we can play in Europe, being played at home. The stakes were much higher than just a one-off game.
You get all kinds of people on a public forum. A day after a bad game will be a bit volatile. Don't believe a managerial change, at this point of time, will help the team in anyway.
Time? Would time make him change his approaches to games? Sevilla at home and he plays that way. I've been one of his defenders here but yesterday was dreadful.
Calling for the manager's head is not criticism.
Saying he can't or won't change is not criticism.
Saying the tactics we're bad is criticism.
Many don't seem to understand this.
And if anyone thinks Jose hasn't learned anything from yesterday, you are as deluded as Frank De Boer.
Saying he can't or won't change is not criticism.
Saying the tactics we're bad is criticism.
Many don't seem to understand this.
And if anyone thinks Jose hasn't learned anything from yesterday, you are as deluded as Frank De Boer.
- Jose has been a fantastic manager, he's a league and CL winner in numerous countries but that has nothing to do with his style of football and the ego on him.
- Please explain to me WHY FELLAINI HAD TO PLAY while Mata, Martial and Pogba had to be on the bench?
- Explain why we never looked like scoring a goal before Sevilla got one?
- Explain to me as to why we have been mixing up the players knowing full well who the in-form players are?
- Explain to me why we aren't playing stock players in their respective areas?
- So many questions!
This post adds nothing. You just sound like a defensive fan.
I don't know why he started Fellaini when we needed to score, I don't know why the team has no sense of urgency either.
Am gutted we are out of the Champions League so early.
However we are in a far better position in general, than we have been for the last 5 years.
Am gutted we are out of the Champions League so early.
However we are in a far better position in general, than we have been for the last 5 years.
Not sure how defining criticism is being defensive.
If you meant only the last point, sure. I trust the manager to learn from mistakes and improve. A Jose fan not being 'defensive' would be weird
Yeah he only needs to spend another Billion or so on players earning half a million a week and we might make the last 8 of the CL. Small mega expensive steps. At least with another 2 billion spent we should be able to guarantee top 4 and that's the major trophy that every top team is after.
All we need is to find some even taller players to hoof the ball up to and we are set.
All we need is to find some even taller players to hoof the ball up to and we are set.
No but if you aren't careful it will be burned to the ground by a crazy egomaniac playing the violin .. Sadly I feel like that might be happening ..
Because you're defining it out of a need to defend him.Not sure how defining criticism is being defensive.
If you meant only the last point, sure. I trust the manager to learn from mistakes and improve. A Jose fan not being 'defensive' would be weird
Someone can not want him as our manager and express that view without desiring to be the toppest red ever. Opinions can be shared as well as criticism/praise.
It's fine that you're backing your man but I usually prefer seeing it done on the basis of logic and reason rather than displeasure. But to each his own.
I can only speak for myself, but just because a poster criticises knee jerk reactions or calls for patience doesn't make them part of some **** of Mourinho. Some of those same posters will be ambivalent towards Mourinho but they can still observe what he's done for and doing for the team.
Why does it have to be some console wars style them against us mentality with some of you?
Dont we all support the same team?
I think most wouldn't have a problem if it were evident that we were indeed building Rome. But I think that's actually the part that seems to be missing. Our improvement to a decent extent is actually fairly tangible. Whether it's enough is another matter, but it exists. What's not certain in the eyes of many is whether what Jose is actually building or the team he will end up having, will be good enough for our ambitions. And that's a legitimate concern. If we were playing spanking football like Monaco (last season) or Liverpool do at times, I'm sure fans would see the vision more clearly.
I'm still on the fence.
I'm still on the fence.
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The first and second leg against Sevilla were bad, but they don't make a season. The overall progression is clear for everyone to see, conceded less goals and scored lots (compared to past years).
Pogba and Bailly have had injury problems this season. Lindelof will only get better as will Sanchez. Mourinho could have got players who instantly did bring more to the team, that's on him, but i'm sure the aformentioned ones will get there.
We're desperately crying out for more midfielders, Mourinho mentioned it already that he'd like to bring in 2 more, so hopefully the club can deliver. Overall i've seen enough to think that the progress so far has been good enough.
Talent wise United are still miles off compared to the Spanish giants or other super clubs. I have no doubt that with Mourinho we're getting there. Patience is requiered, as was with Lukaku.
Obviously Jose is at fault. Don't disagree with that. But that is not why I created the thread.
A manager made mistakes in a big game and hasn't won the UCL in his first season in the tournament with his club.
Or has lost to a relatively weak team in Round of 16 after spending quite a lot.
Or so many players with a lack of UCL experience didn't make us the same scary prospect and that had an impact too.
None of those things seem a deal breaker to me or something that hasn't happened in the past.
So many people asking the OP for answers as to how do we justify Jose's tactics. To be fair, not even his staunchest supporters can do that after that horror show.
To put it in a simple way, I weigh the positives in stability, attracting top talent, making us strong at home again, getting us into the top 4 comfortably with the highest points total since Fergie left over the quite obvious negatives.
I see clear progress overall while there is still lots to improve, especially in some areas. Sure, maybe if nothing changes over another season, I wouldn't defend him or give him more time personally. But right now, what pisses me off is people changing their tone after 1 game, after the brilliant last 3 results where everyone was all praise for his tactics (not style).
Spot on. The most shocking thing for me is how we don't seem to have any idea what direction we are taking.
I assume you’re joking, but if not, we beat them 2-1 on aggregate in the semi finals.
We aren't building Rome. We're building some kind of fortified bus station.
The exact problem is we are building a ghetto and not rome.
So it's alright for you to criticises other peoples posting style but not for somebody to return the favour. Good to know.
Poor performance in the 1st leg as well not a single shot on goal.
Diabolical,cowardly tactics.never mind Liverpool and City will show us how to do it.
What are you even talking about? You can do what you like.
Criticizing knee jerk is fair game, if I say something knee jerk feel free to get at me. Calling out the type of incessant negativity that leads posters to make strawman arguments and ignore facts just so they can continue being negative is fair game, if I do that feel free to get at me. Calling for patience is not a criticism.
You're all free to be as negative or as positive as you want, I really don't understand why you'd be surprised at an adverse reaction to negativity tho. It's tedious as fcuk... Especially when it's in response to someone trying to be positive.
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How better really are we ? Now you have to take into consideration, the meltdown happening at both Chelsea and Arsenal this season and for the first time in 3 yrs in my opinion, Spurs have also dropped their standard of improving since Poch took over.
Some of the games have being as poor as under LVG at times, his demeanor after games reminds me of the defeatist attitude Moyes developed not long into the job.I know people will say you are over reacting etc, but we have being rubbish last four games and last night the luck ran out sadly.
It's not a console style war, it's as you said, we should all be supporting the same team, but others would rather support Mourinho above all else, even the team, was my point really, even after such shocking results as the Sevilla one which is indefensible on any level.
It is not what he is building. We have already built a good squad. We just need a few MFs in the summer and maybe a FB. It is the tactics. Granted they work against the good teams. But in games like last night, where we should have dominated, the tactics falter. I remember thinking to myself last year in the return leg versus Celta Vigo that if Pep was in charge, we would have demolished them. As it turned out it was a very nervy match, against a team, with the players we have, we should be beating well.
Obviously the philosophy works. He is the only man to win the CL and EL twice. But it is very disappointing in games like last night. I would back him for another season. We have a good squad like I say, so the next guy who comes in does not have to rebuild again.
Obviously the philosophy works. He is the only man to win the CL and EL twice. But it is very disappointing in games like last night. I would back him for another season. We have a good squad like I say, so the next guy who comes in does not have to rebuild again.