Rooney Dropped | Megathread closed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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I believe that Fergie probably started thinking about getting rid of Rooney after the contract saga of 2010, and so began planning accordingly straight away.
Maybe it was strange that Fergie never played him as a No.9 again. I guess Fergie wanted to make the team less dependent ot Rooney's goals because his injury vs Bayern ruined the whole season. Also he was garbage after that for many months, there was no point in making him our main striker when he couldn't buy a goal for quite a long time.
I remember it as well, I think Moyes actually put a positive spin on it, like it was proof of how much he cared (for himself I would add)
I don't think so. He continued to be an ever present in the team and was still here four years later.
It was just bad management. If your striker is capable of scoring loads of goals you don't remove him from that role to make the team less dependant. That's nuts. You just sign a decent backup.
Hernandez was supposed to be that backup.
Chicharito simply overperformed and Fergie had to find a way to keep him in the team.
It's simply a lie that Fergie was trying to sideline Rooney by signing a player from the Mexican league.
Fixed!
Rooney himself will soon benefit from being dropped. He hasn't got the physical fitness to be the central figure at the club anymore and the pressure to try and still be that player makes him play even worse. Let him drop down to the fringe player status for a few months and he'll enjoy playing without all the stupid limelight.
Well yeah but that's not what I was saying at all. Unless you're responding to someone else.
Rio was our second best player those years. Indeed, I consider Rio's 07/08 to be probably the best individual season any defender in the world has had in the last 15 or so years. He was ridiculously good. Only Nesta in 02/03 (I may be off by a year) could perhaps argue.
Rooney was at best our third best player those seasons, and even that is arguable with Vidic, Evra and maybe Scholes up there with him.
Agreed 100% matey I tried hard to make sure it didn't look like I was criticising it from a fan point of view.
I loved rvp, I couldn't stand the tactics we deployed because we were playing awful footy
As you said, in a later post, Rooney was arguably the best No.9 in 2009-10 but he was dreadful in the role during the WC and the first half of that season when contracts and granny shagging reared their ugly heads. Berbatov outperformed him in the role and Chicharito burst through plus Rooney was sensational in the deeper role. That decision was made for SAF by the situation then and it actually worked.
I know I agree, it was aimed at one or two that claimed the whole Rooney being a great player was a myth
Does that mean a goal every other game? If so that's not too bad tbf.
But I know it's not just about that and I'm in agreement he needs to be benched from now on, unless of course he finds form from 3 years ago
Diego Milito was easily the best No.9 in the world that season, but Rooney probably was the second best (only David Villa and Didier Drogba might contest it), but the point stands. Rooney was crap as a striker in the following season, with Berba outperforming him, and in the second half of the season he played arguably the best football of his career almost as a No.10. He was brilliant in the second striker position role in the following season despite that his all round game suffered, but his end product skyrocketed. RVP had a better overall season though, which I think pushed Fergie to go for him. Unfortunately RVP was near the end of his career and Rooney started the decline by the end of that season.
If this was true, Ferguson was playing the long game, considering Rooney was still part of the side as far ahead as 4 years later. One thing I noticed was, Rooney never got the captain's armband after that episode. He used to sporadically captain us a few times if a couple of the others who are ahead of him in queue were missing (like Neville, Rio, Scholes etc) but this changed after 2010. I always find it funny that the one quality signing Fergie made post 2010 when Rooney was complaining of the quality of his team mates was Van Persie. In addition to that, he also bought Kagawa in the same season. 2 positions Rooney played in for us. Angry and confused indeed.
Moyes eh? The biggest mistake the club has made for a long time.
A goal or assist every other game. Which isn't too bad, but when you consider the all round game which was absolutely atrocious, then that end product is poor.
Essentially, if Rooney's all round game continues being this poor, then he should give a goal/assist in less than 90 minutes in order to compensate for the all round match.
What?! He simply recognized that Rooney can fill any role, even as a scout!
Most matches that season he was playing with Berbatov up front. So he really wasn't a #9 then either. Only in big matches did he play up front by himself.
He didn't play as the lone striker at the World Cup. He payed as the No.10 behind Heskey or Defoe.
Nor did he really play there first half of 10-11 what with everything that went on.
So not sure where you got him being terrible in that role from.
Did dropping him further back work? To me playing Hernandez and reverting back to a 442 (or 4411) was the beginning of the end of Fergie's great period.
Rooney of 09-10 was vastly superior to Hernandez. So that swap alone made no sense. Fergie started to drop Hernandez not long after.Then too keep Rooney in the team we changed from a 433 (451) back to a 442. The football got worse and worse from there on in.
You have a guy at the very top of his game, at his peak, why mess with his position? I've been very critical of Rooney in this thread so I'm not blindly defending him but that just shouldn't have happened.
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I think SAF was trying to get that perfect combo again, rooney was scoring and assisting for fun from that withdrawn role, with him not being there the team suffered so he brought in chico to move rooney back. Really he should of just addressed the issue, and there is a number of arguements why he didnt, the galziers being one and saf not seeing the value in the transfer market. Personally I think it was the later and that saf didnt want to overspend on players that had yet to prove their value, examples of this are Hazard and Lucas.
Its crazy when you think Ole was used as a sub for almost all of his career here yet he was a much better player and finisher than chico that fergie wanted to turn into a first 11 player
Rooney was at his peak until the Munich injury, we know that much. However he was rushed back because we had nobody else and got himself even more injured and then went all 'let's be a cnut in my private life' in the meantime. He was fecking terrible at the 2010 WC and then fecking awful for us for the first few months of the 2010-11 season until we caved into his tantrum and gave him a new contract then he started playing well again.
He was dropped from leading the line as a number 9 because of everything that happened from the injury against Munich onwards, let's not pretend he was in pre-injury form and SAF just moved him back for a laugh. He was dogshite when Hernandez was coming to prominence to the point where Berba and Chicharito were the ones scoring the goals. Second half of 2010-11 Rooney played like the player we know he could be but as a second striker.
Obviously irrelevant to today's (non) debate, but in case people are forgetting vintage Rooney:
He really was something. Emphasis on WAS, but still. Right up there.
Edit 1: Some of his first touches are unbelievable. How did he lose that?!
Edit 2: Amazing how many of our goals are directly from Park pressuring someone. Feels like so many more mistakes back then.
He really was something. Emphasis on WAS, but still. Right up there.
Edit 1: Some of his first touches are unbelievable. How did he lose that?!
Edit 2: Amazing how many of our goals are directly from Park pressuring someone. Feels like so many more mistakes back then.
That counter-attack at 06:35 has flown under the radar - a hint of things to come in the following seasons.
On the grand scheme of things it means nothing, it's 10 years ago. 10 years ago kaka is stil bpitw, essien is still running rings at chelsea
Carrick with the corner, as well.
Look at the amount of 'angry' finishes or celebrations. Yes he played on the edge and was a better/driven player because of it but it's down to frustration as well. Frustrated at what? His inconsistent game. Even the commentator picks up on it.
And no I'm not just bashing him or basing on that video. It was the same with Ronaldo when he didn't have a 'consistent' game or things didn't go his way but of course he managed his game way better and was/is a better player. Rooney's matured in that sense but he hasn't fine tuned his fundamentals as well as a professional/top player should have.
What @matherto said, Sir Alex is no fool he had to do something whilst Rooney was cleaning his granny shagging mess and when his mind was dead set on insulting his team mates to get a new big contract. So Sir Alex didn't mess with Rooney's position, Rooney rushing to the WC instead of resting his foot contributed, his other antics contributed and him being shit enough to go to boot camp in the middle of the season was a major factor.
No, it means a goal/assist every other game. Or even worse, because he has 1 goal and 2 assists in 7 full games so far (including CS and EFL Cup).
Guys all you've said about Rooney in that summer is true but it's barmy to suggest dropping him to the No.10 spot was some kind of punishment for it. You're looking for a link that doesn't exist there.
Fergie just liked Hernandez and wanted him in the team. It was a mistake, culminating in us going up against Barcelona with a 442. Carrick and Giggs up against possibly the best three man midfield of all time.
You either get rid of Rooney after that summer or allow him to regain his epic form as a No.9. You don't switch his position and tactically change a system that upto the Bayern game was working very well indeed.
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That there is the main reason I was glad Moyes got sacked. The buffoon.Thanks for the link.
Good grief.
It begins to look like a pact: Moyes with his six-year contract, Rooney's support for him guaranteed by the granting of a 5-and-a-half-year contract. That's how desperate Moyes might've been to keep Rooney onside. None of this business puts United first in terms of priorities.
I take it all back Jose. You have more spine than LvG and Moyes. You have done the impossible. You have brought back meritocracy back to Man Utd. From now onward, Rooney will only play if he deserves to. Thank you.
Just give him a stand next! What?!
I wish I really could believe that. If it doesn't happen, this Leicester game will only feed the fire.
The question is...was this a "kick up the arse" and Rooney will now be straight back in, or will he need to fight his way back in with Rooney warming the bench for the foreseeable?
Smalling going on about how rooney is so influential and will be back firing in no time. To me this suggests a couple of things
1. That it was obvious to the that Rooney has been shit for a while or at least is in a really bad form this season.
2. Being vocal is more valued than being good with regards to rooney alone. Are they standing up for him because he is super friendly/ a good leader or because they fear him in a way?
1. That it was obvious to the that Rooney has been shit for a while or at least is in a really bad form this season.
2. Being vocal is more valued than being good with regards to rooney alone. Are they standing up for him because he is super friendly/ a good leader or because they fear him in a way?
"He is our captain, he is one of our main players and there is no doubt that he has got a big part to play," Smalling commented.
"He is often the most vocal in the dressing room and he was the same today. Regardless of the situation, whether he is on the bench or playing, he is always the same character and that is why he is England’s main man and our main man.
"I think he is a very experienced guy and he has played that many games it is only a matter of time before he is back in there and firing again because he is quality."
"He is often the most vocal in the dressing room and he was the same today. Regardless of the situation, whether he is on the bench or playing, he is always the same character and that is why he is England’s main man and our main man.
"I think he is a very experienced guy and he has played that many games it is only a matter of time before he is back in there and firing again because he is quality."
If he starts on thursday then i think we can hope that he will be on the bench on the weekend. If United play well again then it will be the bench for him (i can only hope)
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