Rooney Dropped | Megathread closed

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Dans said:
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Zlatan clearly pissed off at a player who's not fit enough to play for a top side.

It's a major issue that's getting glossed over - he's well overweight and struggling to get about - even in bouts of 30 minutes.
 
Minimalist said:
Zlatan clearly pissed off at a player who's not fit enough to play for a top side.

It's a major issue that's getting glossed over - he's well overweight and struggling to get about - even in bouts of 30 minutes.
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Sorry, are you saying Rooney's deficiencies are being glossed over? Seriously?

Or have I missed the point of what you were saying?
 
Adebesi said:
Sorry, are you saying Rooney's deficiencies are being glossed over? Seriously?

Or have I missed the point of what you were saying?
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No I'm saying most people are trashing his footballing ability. Which is fair given what he's putting out there.

I'm saying his physical attributes are so poor these days and you only hear a few people speaking about it.
 
Gazza said:
Don't read idiots on Twitter then, I mean this is basic human law - Twitter is full of all types of people and if you're precious about Wayne Rooney, it's probably a mistake to go searching his name on Twitter looking for positive comments right now

Just like all the others who have used your "hate" argument in this thread, you're never really able to back that up with specific examples from the Caf, it's always disconnected people somewhere out there on the internet who are saying all these apparently spiteful things about Rooney. Seems to me like you should limit your focus to the posts on the Caf, as none of us know what you're seeing on Twitter and none of us have any control over that. Suggestion, like.
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It doesn't bother me any friend. I'm not 'precious' about Rooney, I don't personally know the man. He plays for the Club I've been a fan of for decades, so yes I will defend him as long as he does. He leaves, and I won't be following him other than with a curious interest. If he never steps on the pitch at OT again I won't shed a tear, believe me. And I've seen all things written about him here in the Cafe that aren't in any way related to his football abilities, name calling, etc. I just find that part of it silly.
 
I'm not overly sure what that tweet is pointing out.....that Rooney isn't the Flash? I wouldn't expect anyone to stop them passing between their 2 defenders and DM, forced into the lump ball and back to United really, unless I'm missing something.

Let's not point out the labouring of the other two players where the video stops allowing a new triangle of passing to be made by letting two Zorya playings run into space with zero pressure.

Really finding odd things to kill Rooney for at this point. He's been dropped, why is this still happening to an insane level? I doubt he's going to be an essential part of the starting line if fully fit from now on. But he'll get plenty of time, given 4 competitions.
 
Zen said:
I'm not overly sure what that tweet is pointing out.....that Rooney isn't the Flash? I wouldn't expect anyone to stop them passing between their 2 defenders and DM, forced into the lump ball and back to United really, unless I'm missing something.

Let's not point out the labouring of the other two players where the video stops allowing a new triangle of passing to be made by letting two Zorya playings run into space with zero pressure.

Really finding odd things to kill Rooney for at this point. He's been dropped, why is this still happening to an insane level? I doubt he's going to be an essential part of the starting line if fully fit from now on. But he'll get plenty of time, given 4 competitions.
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That's ridiculous unless you're trolling. He's literally plodding around and doesn't make any effort to sprint into position to challenge the player receiving the ball.

Again, this is a guy who only had to come on for the final 30 minutes.
 
He is not going to get in front to prevent that triangle of passing, I don't care if you think I'm trolling or not, Usain wouldn't cover that ground.

But again, it's completely ignoring the end of that video, where TWO opposition just labour their way into open spaces despite their being TWO other non-Rooney United players just loitering allowing it.

It's just another one of those typical "let's destroy Rooney" things which shouldn't exist, there are reasons to slate Rooney for, this really isn't one of them. He's the third least culpable in the video of 4 United players. Only old man Zlatan is oddly going above and beyond, but he's a hero. MUFC Legend already to be fair.
 
The point is the Zlatan at 35 is chasing harder than Rooney but hoping by giving him some subtle hints about who to chase down he might do it too. He's clearly frustrated when Rooney makes no effort at all.
 
Dans said:
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I'm sure Ibra will discuss these little issues with Jose.
It is then upto Jose to discuss them with Rooney. Or keep him on the bench.
In truth, Rooney's age means that he no longer has the energy levels to cover as much ground as his team-mates expect of each other.
 
His physical condition and general apoearance is shocking for a professional athlete just turned 30. If it wasn't for the fake hair and the facework, he'd look about 20 years older than his actual age. I think Fergie made reference somewhere to Rooney's father ageing badly and drew his conclusions about his son's longevity.
 
Sky1981 said:
That's like 7 years ago? 7 years is a long time in football. Scholes was better than gerrard 7 years ago, keane was better than pogba 7 years ago
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It was simply to illustrate Rooney's top pace which is purely a physical thing. I don't think Ronaldo has slowed down as much as Rooney has in the same time. The amount Rooney has slowed down isn't normal is what I'm getting at.
 
Adebesi said:
Sorry, are you saying Rooney's deficiencies are being glossed over? Seriously?

Or have I missed the point of what you were saying?
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We are still in the bizarre position where much of the media is glossing over his failings in a way they wouldn't for any other player. (Eg Savage and Scholes last night) Although I think it is finally seeping into the general fan conciousness that he "is done".

Ronaldo and Robben are older than Rooney. Suarez is a little bit younger. If any of those players were offering comparable performances to Rooney for a couple of years would there have been the hesitation to criticise that we have seen over the last 2 or 3 years?

Obviously on here his deficiencies are not being glossed over, including his physical decline.
 
Zen said:
He is not going to get in front to prevent that triangle of passing, I don't care if you think I'm trolling or not, Usain wouldn't cover that ground.

But again, it's completely ignoring the end of that video, where TWO opposition just labour their way into open spaces despite their being TWO other non-Rooney United players just loitering allowing it.

It's just another one of those typical "let's destroy Rooney" things which shouldn't exist, there are reasons to slate Rooney for, this really isn't one of them. He's the third least culpable in the video of 4 United players. Only old man Zlatan is oddly going above and beyond, but he's a hero. MUFC Legend already to be fair.
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Its not about getting in front of the DM to cut the pass and fix the world, Zlatan asked him to be near the DM in order to make the CB thing twice about sending him a compromising ball. If Rooney was behind the CM, even mildly challenging the pass he did to the other CB those 3 players would think twice about risking a pass with chances of a bad control/forced pass backfiring, usually those situations end up in one of the CB's playing a long ball, where the defending team has the advantage.

But is just beyond that, if someone in your team asks you anything, you just do it unless you have a better plan, I don't think Rooney thought jogging around with no one in 10 yards around him was a better idea, he just didn't want to do it. If Zlatan, 35 y/o, with all his ego and more minutes in his legs finds the fire to work like a mule against some unknown Ukranian team in the EL then surely any other guy in the squad should at least match his effort
 
Ixion said:
It was simply to illustrate Rooney's top pace which is purely a physical thing. I don't think Ronaldo has slowed down as much as Rooney has in the same time. The amount Rooney has slowed down isn't normal is what I'm getting at.
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No it's not normal for an athlete who trains hard and keeps himself in good physical condition. But Rooney isn't an athlete who has looked after himself properly. I expect he'll look like Steve Bruce in another 10-15 years.
 
Zen said:
He is not going to get in front to prevent that triangle of passing, I don't care if you think I'm trolling or not, Usain wouldn't cover that ground.

But again, it's completely ignoring the end of that video, where TWO opposition just labour their way into open spaces despite their being TWO other non-Rooney United players just loitering allowing it.

It's just another one of those typical "let's destroy Rooney" things which shouldn't exist, there are reasons to slate Rooney for, this really isn't one of them. He's the third least culpable in the video of 4 United players. Only old man Zlatan is oddly going above and beyond, but he's a hero. MUFC Legend already to be fair.
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Pause at 0:07, the distance from rooney to the DM is less than the distance from zlatan to the Cb but zlatan gets close to the CB while rooney doesnt even pressure the DM>

And no, its not just a criticism of rooney. Mikhi got some hate over here as well for the same thing in the city game.
 
Ixion said:
It was simply to illustrate Rooney's top pace which is purely a physical thing. I don't think Ronaldo has slowed down as much as Rooney has in the same time. The amount Rooney has slowed down isn't normal is what I'm getting at.
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Ronaldo is an anomaly, Rooney is an anomaly

Re Rooney : his fall from grace is a mystery to me, how can one who keeps on playing every week suddenly lost even his basic instinct, even Sheringham still offers solid technical ability at the age of 33.
 
And Zlatan barely covers half that ground, or even enough to make the pass anything other than still straight forward....Rooney has to go in front on the DM pretty much. Rooney's positioning would at least keep them confined to their own half or hoof balls, but the other 2 allow the ball to easily get into Uniteds half pressure free.....who gets all the relentless slack? Old Man Wayne, and he is old, in football terms, which is why I'm not expecting to break up that pass.

A lot of the criticism he's getting is complete fair game, I'm not even defending his work rate here, that's mostly gone too, but this is just pedantic for pedantics sake.

I'm not even all that sure he could cut it in Italy at this point, where generally 10's that aren't really playmaking 10's - but all round forwards - have tended to grow old well.
 
Ixion said:
It was simply to illustrate Rooney's top pace which is purely a physical thing. I don't think Ronaldo has slowed down as much as Rooney has in the same time. The amount Rooney has slowed down isn't normal is what I'm getting at.
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Using Ronnie as a point of comparison is unfair. The amount of work he puts into his fitness is legendary. The amount he has slowed down is absolutely normal for someone who doesn't maintain his fitness at an elite-level.
 
Neville seems to be distorting the issue here. If Rooney is not performing well in any of his 'favoured' positions, then he should go on the bench like any other player, for the good of the team. Trying to shift the focus elsewhere, especially when we don't play well, just sounds like an agenda. He full well knows ( or should), that it's impossible to play well all the time, and that a team needs to develop and evolve, especially after having such a big and negative influence for at least 2 seasons.
Why can't Neville give the other players and manager a chance? When Moyes was there he was all about giving him bloody time. So now Jose and our mostly foreign players don't deserve the same to at least have the chance to build something?

Honestly, Rooney is such a distraction - every time we lose or play shit - his media buddies are going to be all over the other players and Jose's ass. It's irritating to think we'll have this all season (sigh).
 
liamp said:
Using Ronnie as a point of comparison is unfair. The amount of work he puts into his fitness is legendary. The amount he has slowed down is absolutely normal for someone who doesn't maintain his fitness at an elite-level.
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It's not normal.. it's reckless
 
liamp said:
Using Ronnie as a point of comparison is unfair. The amount of work he puts into his fitness is legendary. The amount he has slowed down is absolutely normal for someone who doesn't maintain his fitness at an elite-level.
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I mean I would have thought someone being paid 300k a week, captain of club and country was an elite-level player but maybe not.

But no I don't accept for one second that the amount Rooney has slowed down is normal at all, people grossly exaggerate what happens to someone when they hit 30 to excuse Rooney. Usian Bolt is 30, Mo Farah is 33. Andy Cole, Henry were fast strikers that didn't suddenly slow to a crawl at 30. Valencia is 31 and he can still go. Players don't have to put in the same amount of work as Ronaldo to avoid becoming as slow as Rooney.
 
Ixion said:
I mean I would have thought someone being paid 300k a week, captain of club and country was an elite-level player but maybe not.

But no I don't accept for one second that the amount Rooney has slowed down is normal at all, people grossly exaggerate what happens to someone when they hit 30 to excuse Rooney. Usian Bolt is 30, Mo Farah is 33. Andy Cole, Henry were fast strikers that didn't suddenly slow to a crawl at 30. Valencia is 31 and he can still go. Players don't have to put in the same amount of work as Ronaldo to avoid becoming as slow as Rooney.
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If we're doing comparisons it's only fair if they are comparable. Keep it to the same sport, the same position, someone whose had a similar career. Try and avoid athletes who are exceptions like Ronaldo(nobody is like him).
 
Raees said:
It's not normal.. it's reckless
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There's nothing reckless about it. He had the reputation of being a notoriously poor trainer before he even reached his mid-20s. The club knew that he wouldn't be the type to work hard to maintain his fitness at the highest level. What's reckless is that he was still given a 5 year contract in his late 20's despite that.
 
Minimalist said:
Zlatan clearly pissed off at a player who's not fit enough to play for a top side.

It's a major issue that's getting glossed over - he's well overweight and struggling to get about - even in bouts of 30 minutes.
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Of course it is, and that clip showed a very good example of it, Zlatan asking him to mark the free guy and Rooney just doddling along and leaving him free to receive the ball. Had Rooney marked him the defender may have struglled to find a pass. Rooney is finished as a top class player, and has been for some time.
 
Pexbo said:
It's a completely retarded article.

Are Man United good enough to win the league without Rooney? is not the question at all. That implies that if the answer to that is no, Rooney should play.


The real question is: Is Rooney better than the other options?


6: Herrera, Carrick, Pogba, Schneiderlin
8: Pogba, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Fellaini
10: Mata, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Rooney
9: Zlatan, Rashford, Martial, Rooney
Wide: Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Lingard


At best he's our 4th choice 10 or 9. In every other position we have 4 players that should play ahead of him.


That's 11 players to choose ahead of him for 6 positions. There is so many combinations of players to try before Rooney comes into the equation not to mention the fact that any combination that we do try should be given a proper run before it is discarded as "not working".
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I fully agree with what you say. However, from observing what Mourinho has said and done so far, I would think the most likely scenario is that Rooney will continue being in the frame for the time being. I would prefer Rooney to be sold, but that's not likely right now. So the least harmful for our team will be if he is used from the bench.
 
Dobbs said:
If we're doing comparisons it's only fair if they are comparable. Keep it to the same sport, the same position, someone whose had a similar career. Try and avoid athletes who are exceptions like Ronaldo(nobody is like him).
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Giggs was much faster at 30 and had come through at a similar age and suffered more injuries. Why can some people not accept Rooney hasn't looked after himself like he should?
 
Ixion said:
I mean I would have thought someone being paid 300k a week, captain of club and country was an elite-level player but maybe not.
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I'm talking about elite fitness levels, not the quality of the player
 
If this is how we are constantly going to be constantly judged when he isn't playing, then it's best to get rid.
His friends will constantly criticise when we don't play like Barcelona.
 
Ixion said:
Giggs was much faster at 30 and had come through at a similar age and suffered more injuries. Why can some people not accept Rooney hasn't looked after himself like he should?
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I can accept it but it's still not fair to compare him to incredible athletes like Giggs.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
No it's not normal for an athlete who trains hard and keeps himself in good physical condition. But Rooney isn't an athlete who has looked after himself properly. I expect he'll look like Steve Bruce in another 10-15 years.
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Send him to Dubai for a couple of weeks of intensive training/ weight loss.
 
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