Rooney

[Feed Me]

How old is Villa btw?

Is he now settled at Valencia?

 

[Brwned]

Really not sure Villa does much donkey work in an attacking sense. He's tireless with his running but Rooney does that anyway.

Chances are they'd make a better partnership than this one but I still think someone like Benzema or Higuaín would make a better one. Someone with pace and height.

 

[OneUnited24]

How old is Villa btw?

Is he now settled at Valencia?

Hes 28 i think

 

[OneUnited24]

Really not sure Villa does much donkey work in an attacking sense. He's tireless with his running but Rooney does that anyway.

Chances are they'd make a better partnership than this one but I still think someone like Benzema or Higuaín would make a better one. Someone with pace and height.

Well from Rooneys point of view it would be donkeys work (ie getting behind defenders playing on the shoulder of the last defender), i dont really think he likes leading the line he wants to drop deep and get involved but he does it (and too some good effect in the past few games)

 

[Feed Me]

Really not sure Villa does much donkey work in an attacking sense. He's tireless with his running but Rooney does that anyway.

Chances are they'd make a better partnership than this one but I still think someone like Benzema or Higuaín would make a better one. Someone with pace and height.

Brwned you watch a lot of European football.

1) First things first, do you think Rooney and Berbatov can be made to work as a pair?

2) If not, who is out there that would realistically be available to us, do you reckon?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Nah, over the course of the qualifiers Rooney was consistently England's best player, wouldn't say it was just at the start of this season.

There were only two games out of 10 that he didn't get a goal or assist, both against Ukraine oddly. And even then he was England's best player away against Ukraine and he won MOTM in the home game.

2 goals and 1 assist against Belarus. 1 assist against Andorra. 2 goals against Kazahkstan. 1 goal and 2 assists against Croatia. 1 goal against Kazahkstan. 2 goals against Andorra(yet taken off at half time). 1 goal and 1 assist against Croatia.

That's consistent brilliance and up there as one of the top three performers in International football.

He was shit against Ukraine and shit against Brazil. The only two international fixtures in the last two months. The two months when he's been at his most ineffective for United. He hasn't played well for England since the game against Croatia in early September (at a time when he was on fire for United).

Like I said, when he's playing well he plays well for club and country. When he's playing poorly he's as shit for England as he is for United.

 

[Feed Me]

Hes 28 i think

Very good age then.

Everything about that lad smacks of Barca/Real unfortunately. That and the fact that I doubt we'll be making any big ticket buys.

 

[Red Pavan]

We need a donkey that does the dirty work, Tevez did it for a while but he offered nothing as a sheer presence like Heskey does for England. Basically someone like Dzeko wouldn't be that bad an option to consider. Benzema could do the trick but the odds are that he wouldn't join us soon after joining his dream club.

 

[Feed Me]

We need a donkey that does the dirty work, Tevez did it for a while but he offered nothing as a sheer presence like Heskey does for England. Basically someone like Dzeko wouldn't be that bad an option to consider. Benzema could do the trick but the odds are that he wouldn't join us soon after joining his dream club.

Is Benzema really a "donkey work" player though?

At United, you have to be a good player in your own right. As said previously, Rooney worked well with Saha and van Nistelrooy - both were brilliant in their own right.

A tall, physical player with pace. Could Macheda-Rooney be a good long term pair?

 

[OneUnited24]

Very good age then.

Everything about that lad smacks of Barca/Real unfortunately. That and the fact that I doubt we'll be making any big ticket buys.

Yeah hes said a few times that he wants to stay in Spain (only recently he seems to have opened up to the idea of a move to England but i doubt he would come if he had to choose)

 

[Feed Me]

Yeah hes said a few times that he wants to stay in Spain (only recently he seems to have opened up to the idea of a move to England but i doubt he would come if he had to choose)

You get the feeling that we'd be a long way back in third spot if it came to competing for his signature in any case.

 

[Red Pavan]

Is Benzema really a "donkey work" player though?

At United, you have to be a good player in your own right. As said previously, Rooney worked well with Saha and van Nistelrooy - both were brilliant in their own right.

A tall, physical player with pace. Could Macheda-Rooney be a good long term pair?

The player with that potential is in our club but not just ready yet and is Welbeck not Macheda. I think he and Rooney can combine a patnership like the way Saha and Rooney did in the past.

Welbeck will also offer a bit of a presence if he bulks up a bit, he seems to be getting tougher and tougher and is 19 - so a lot more is expectant of him in terms of technical and physical aspects.

 

[FreakyJim]

I'm not liking Welbeck's casual approach when he's given a chance recently.
Though tbf to him the teams overall approach is wank.

 

[Brwned]

Brwned you watch a lot of European football.

1) First things first, do you think Rooney and Berbatov can be made to work as a pair?

2) If not, who is out there that would realistically be available to us, do you reckon?

I'd like to think so but I'm losing faith unfortunately.

Think Dzeko's a possibility, Fabiano's a very small possibility although I'm not a fan, and that's about it.

Sir Alex likes to buy strikers from this league but I can't really see anyone.

He was shit against Ukraine and shit against Brazil. The only two international fixtures in the last two months. The two months when he's been at his most ineffective for United. He hasn't played well for England since the game against Croatia in early September (at a time when he was on fire for United).

Like I said, when he's playing well he plays well for club and country. When he's playing poorly he's as shit for England as he is for United.

Which we all know is because of his inconsistency, which is just a feature of his game that's irrelevant to who he's playing for.

It's just that his peak performances for England over the past couple of years have generally outshone his peak performances for us, IMO, which is partly down to having a partner he's been able to click with.

 

[Decotron]

Cant see Villa leaving spain, lets not forget he was Madrids no 1 target last season in terms of a striker

 

[Kelvin]

we are relying too much on Rooney, he is getting burned out...

 

[Raees]

To get the best out of Rooney we need a Drogba-esque player, which is nearly impossible to find as the guys a phenom, Torres would also be perfect.

He needs a striker whose just as good as he is, not merely a workhorse designed to give him space, we need someone with height, pace, movement, great hold up/aerial play and clinical finishing ability.

I don't think Welbeck is dynamic enough to complement Rooney (very languid, Berbatov type player), for me Macheda is the one who would suit Rooney down to the ground.. but sad fact is, he isn't good enough not at the moment anyway in all those aspects I mentioned above.

Dzeko has been mentioned, but I don't think he's fast enough though he'd be a better than nothing.

Higuain for me would be, the best option out there and Benzema is another.. though I don't rate Benzema's selflessness and hold up play as highly as Higuain.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'd like to think so but I'm losing faith unfortunately.

Think Dzeko's a possibility, Fabiano's a very small possibility although I'm not a fan, and that's about it.

Sir Alex likes to buy strikers from this league but I can't really see anyone.



Which we all know is because of his inconsistency, which is just a feature of his game that's irrelevant to who he's playing for.

It's just that his peak performances for England over the past couple of years have generally outshone his peak performances for us, IMO, which is partly down to having a partner he's been able to click with.

I don't agree. When he's on his game for us he's been easily as good as he's been for England, if not better.

The only difference is that England has been playing better, as a team, than United have over the last 18 months, for reasons that have very little to do with Rooney's partner for the respective teams.

 

[Walrus]

I still think Huntelaar might be an option for us - he could be like what we expected from Owen. Personally my priority would be a left winger though.

 

[Raees]

I still think Huntelaar might be an option for us - he could be like what we expected from Owen. Personally my priority would be a left winger though.

I wouldn't mind Huntelaar, if we can get him for less than £5 mil, he'd be a decent option.. but I still think we should be looking for someone who will be a great striker guaranteed to get 20+ a season and bring the best out of Rooney as well as thriving on what Wayne can provide for him.

 

[AttackingFlair]

Huntelaar isn't good enough

 

[Brwned]

I don't agree. When he's on his game for us he's been easily as good as he's been for England, if not better.

The only difference is that England has been playing better, as a team, than United have over the last 18 months, for reasons that have very little to do with Rooney's partner for the respective teams.

I knew you wouldn't.

I have to say I find it amazing that you think England have played better because of a reason other than Rooney's great form.

Besides possibly the left wing spot, man for man I think we've been better.

Rooney's carried them in an attacking sense.

 

[Devil_forever]

Huntelaar isn't good enough

He got messed around too much at Madrid, even then he still scored a few and he just hasn't settled in at Milan. He's a proven goal scorer, would love him at united tbh. He'd be a risk but I think he'd be the ideal partner for Rooney and vise versa. Players like Forlan have scored that potential can shine through in a league that suits you and I'd take the risk on Huntelaar any day. I know most don't rate his all round play but we've got players around him, who can take care of that. We're just missing a goal scorer and imo he could be the answer.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I knew you wouldn't.

I have to say I find it amazing that you think England have played better because of a reason other than Rooney's great form.

Besides possibly the left wing spot, man for man I think we've been better.

Rooney's carried them in an attacking sense.

England have played better because Capello has sorted out their problems in central midfield and selected a balance pairing for the first time in ages. They've also had quality options on either wing. Gerrard isn't a natural winger but he's been arguably Rooney's most effective foil for England and Rooney loves drifting left, no matter which team he's playing for.

These are both areas where United have been lacking for the last two seasons. We've only intermittently looked really solid in central midfield and our left wing has been an ongoing problem for us, apart from Giggs' great start to this season when - funnily enough - Rooney was also on fire.

 

[AttackingFlair]

He got messed around too much at Madrid, even then he still scored a few and he just hasn't settled in at Milan. He's a proven goal scorer, would love him at united tbh. He'd be a risk but I think he'd be the ideal partner for Rooney and vise versa. Players like Forlan have scored that potential can shine through in a league that suits you and I'd take the risk on Huntelaar any day. I know most don't rate his all round play but we've got players around him, who can take care of that. We're just missing a goal scorer and imo he could be the answer.

Sounds like Michael Owen all over again.

1. Proven goal scorer? Where's the proof. 8 in 20 at Madrid, 2 in 9 at Milan. He isn't good enough for either of them, he's not good enough for us. He has problems displacing Boriello who is pretty poor himself.

2. Do we have the players around to make up for someone like that though? We lack creativity. Owen just stands around waiting for a chance all the time in games and most the time it doesn't come his way. There'll be games like the Wolfsburg one but on the whole its not good enough.

 

[MadDogg]

Exactly what I thought.

I saw Rooney developing into a massive upgrade on Robbie Keane. There's not a massive difference in the way they play the game. Either I was under-estimating Keane or over-estimating Rooney. Probably a bit of both.

Mind you, having said all that. Keane did his best work with Berbatov when he was in his prime as a footballer. Rooney is still yong and lernin'.

I said at the time of buying Berbatov that it could work brilliantly if Rooney could 'model' his game on Keane's, and basically play like a faster, stronger more talented version. Let Berbatov be the focus of our creative play, while Rooney becomes the finisher, the one running off of Berbatov so the Bulgarian could use his brilliant passing and vision to pick the opposition's defence apart.

I got attacked on here by a few people saying why should Rooney limit his game to fit Berbatov, but I still believe it would ultimately be better for both the team as a whole and Rooney as an individual.

 

[Allforone]

Berbatov should be the focal point with Rooney playing just off him...i like most at the time when we signed Berbatov assumed thats what the plan was...Berbatov is a big lad with a great touch so is more than capable of holding the ball up and allowing play to develop off him....for some reason we play them the other way round....

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I said at the time of buying Berbatov that it could work brilliantly if Rooney could 'model' his game on Keane's, and basically play like a faster, stronger more talented version. Let Berbatov be the focus of our creative play, while Rooney becomes the finisher, the one running off of Berbatov so the Bulgarian could use his brilliant passing and vision to pick the opposition's defence apart.

I got attacked on here by a few people saying why should Rooney limit his game to fit Berbatov, but I still believe it would ultimately be better for both the team as a whole and Rooney as an individual.

Agreed.

 

[Devil_forever]

Sounds like Michael Owen all over again.

1. Proven goal scorer? Where's the proof. 8 in 20 at Madrid, 2 in 9 at Milan. He isn't good enough for either of them, he's not good enough for us. He has problems displacing Boriello who is pretty poor himself.

2. Do we have the players around to make up for someone like that though? We lack creativity. Owen just stands around waiting for a chance all the time in games and most the time it doesn't come his way. There'll be games like the Wolfsburg one but on the whole its not good enough.

Rooney's at his creative best when there's a striker like Huntelaar playing in front of him but with Owen he's never clicked. Just one of those things.

 

[AttackingFlair]

Rooney's at his creative best when there's a striker like Huntelaar playing in front of him but with Owen he's never clicked. Just one of those things.

Yeah but the striker has to be good enough. Someone like Fabiano would be good enough, I haven't seen enough of Dzeko to comment on him. I've seen enough of Huntelaar to know he's not good enough. Simply being a lead the line striker doesn't mean he's good enough to be first choice here, we could buy any old striker. My point is his lack of quality, not even a proven goal scorer either, say what you want about the Dutch league.

 

[Devil_forever]

Yeah but the striker has to be good enough. Someone like Fabiano would be good enough, I haven't seen enough of Dzeko to comment on him. I've seen enough of Huntelaar to know he's not good enough. Simply being a lead the line striker doesn't mean he's good enough to be first choice here, we could buy any old striker. My point is his lack of quality, not even a proven goal scorer either, say what you want about the Dutch league.

He was an undeniable success in the dutch league. Now at Real he was deflated, especially when you consider he wasn't even chosen to be registered to the CL. Even with sub appearances and given the background behind his situation his record was around 1 in 2. He hasn't got a striker like Rooney behind him for Milan. With the right guidance and partnering Rooney, I think he'll form a very good partnership with him. Saha isn't a great all round player but he was arguably Rooney's best partner.

 

[AttackingFlair]

He was an undeniable success in the dutch league. Now at Real he was deflated, especially when you consider he wasn't even chosen to be registered to the CL. Even with sub appearances and given the background behind his situation his record was around 1 in 2. He hasn't got a striker like Rooney behind him for Milan. With the right guidance and partnering Rooney, I think he'll form a very good partnership with him. Saha isn't a great all round player but he was arguably Rooney's best partner.

So was Afonso Alves

He wasn't good enough to displace Higuain (fair enough) but also Raul (not even because of sentiment). He may have scored 8 goals but any Madrid fan will tell you he's not good enough for that level and the goals shouldn't mask that.

Michael Owen has also scored something like 7 goals for us already but that doesn't tell the full story does it? All the games he disappeared in, did nothing in etc.

He doesn't have Rooney behind him but he has Ronaldinho who has been on form and set up a fair amount of goals. He also has Pato who's had to play on the right to accommodate a striker. Seedorf has been on good form as well.

Boriello managed to displace him despite being a poor player and managed to look half decent at times with the service from Ronaldinho, Seedorf etc.

Besides, you're saying he'll automatically be good because he has Rooney behind him. Yet the team struggles with creativity and is reliant on Giggs. Our problem recently has been the lack of cutting edge, creation of chances etc. Wouldn't he struggle if he can't make chance for himself?

And again is he really a proven goal scorer? 8 in 20 at Madrid okay but he's had something like 2 in 9 at Milan with both coming in the same game. If he was a proven goal scorer wouldn't he be scoring more and playing more? He doesn't cut it at the top level. He's failed to cement himself as first choice anywhere outside of the Dutch league.

Oh and Saha is a brilliant player, miles better than Huntelaar and he's showing that at Everton. Saha is actually a proven goal scorer at the top level unlike Huntelaar who's claimed to be. I thought Saha was well rounded as well, good hold up play, good passing/linking up, good shot, decent weaker foot. His only weakness was probably in 1 on 1s.

 

[kundalini]

The player with that potential is in our club but not just ready yet and is Welbeck not Macheda. I think he and Rooney can combine a patnership like the way Saha and Rooney did in the past.

Welbeck will also offer a bit of a presence if he bulks up a bit, he seems to be getting tougher and tougher and is 19 - so a lot more is expectant of him in terms of technical and physical aspects.

I agree with this. Welbeck, at least in terms of potential, has the qualities required: height, pace, skill. But he seems a long way away at the moment, far too nice, too much of a team player, indecisive, not enough clear desire to hurt sides, create chances, get in front of his marker when crosses come in, and most importantly, score goals.

At the beginning of this season I thought he might be ready come the spring but clearly that's totally unrealistic. Hopefully next season he'll be worth 8-10 starts in the premiership on merit rather than for development purposes.

 

[Brwned]

I said at the time of buying Berbatov that it could work brilliantly if Rooney could 'model' his game on Keane's, and basically play like a faster, stronger more talented version. Let Berbatov be the focus of our creative play, while Rooney becomes the finisher, the one running off of Berbatov so the Bulgarian could use his brilliant passing and vision to pick the opposition's defence apart.

I got attacked on here by a few people saying why should Rooney limit his game to fit Berbatov, but I still believe it would ultimately be better for both the team as a whole and Rooney as an individual.

Isn't that exactly what Rooney's done, but hasn't worked?

Sorry if I've missed the point but so far it seems like you were right to be "attacked".

He was an undeniable success in the dutch league. Now at Real he was deflated, especially when you consider he wasn't even chosen to be registered to the CL. Even with sub appearances and given the background behind his situation his record was around 1 in 2. He hasn't got a striker like Rooney behind him for Milan. With the right guidance and partnering Rooney, I think he'll form a very good partnership with him. Saha isn't a great all round player but he was arguably Rooney's best partner.

Eh?

Great in the air, great hold up play, good dribbler, quick, decent finisher, decent shot from range and better passer than most strikers, and he's not a great all round player?

Louis Saha fit and on form is one of the best strikers around.

 

[swooshboy]

To get the best out of Rooney we need a Drogba-esque player, which is nearly impossible to find as the guys a phenom, Torres would also be perfect.

He needs a striker whose just as good as he is, not merely a workhorse designed to give him space, we need someone with height, pace, movement, great hold up/aerial play and clinical finishing ability.

I don't think Welbeck is dynamic enough to complement Rooney (very languid, Berbatov type player), for me Macheda is the one who would suit Rooney down to the ground.. but sad fact is, he isn't good enough not at the moment anyway in all those aspects I mentioned above.

Dzeko has been mentioned, but I don't think he's fast enough though he'd be a better than nothing.

Higuain for me would be, the best option out there and Benzema is another.. though I don't rate Benzema's selflessness and hold up play as highly as Higuain.

Sounds like a fit Saha to me...

I watched the DVD of our 2006/07 season earlier today and was reminded just how good Saha was for us (when fit...). For as good as Ronaldo was, having a Saha type player complemented out attack in a way that even Tevez never really managed to do.

 

[AttackingFlair]

Considering people keep talking about Rooney's assists recently I thought I'd bring up the statistics. Apart from this season, he's had a lot of assists and even though his goal tallies haven't been the best for some seasons, the assists aside them make his stats look pretty good. His stats are only quite poor in the premiership (well goals), in all competitions they're pretty damn good.

09/10
Assists:
For United: 1
For England: 1

08/09
Assists:
For United: 12
For England: 5

07/08

Assists:
For United: 14

06/07
Assists:
For United: 14

05/06
Assists:
For United: 14

 

[Red Pavan]

Considering people keep talking about Rooney's assists recently I thought I'd bring up the statistics. Apart from this season, he's had a lot of assists and even though his goal tallies haven't been the best for some seasons, the assists aside them make his stats look pretty good. His stats are only quite poor in the premiership (well goals), in all competitions they're pretty damn good.

09/10
Assists:
For United: 1
For England: 1

08/09
Assists:
For United: 12
For England: 5

07/08

Assists:
For United: 14

06/07
Assists:
For United: 14

05/06
Assists:
For United: 14

Talk about consistency.

I think he could still play a huge part in our side's assists from this coming winter and till the end of may. We are still in all of the competitions and you can't argue against him getting atleast 10 assists this season.

 

[MadDogg]

Isn't that exactly what Rooney's done, but hasn't worked?

Sorry if I've missed the point but so far it seems like you were right to be "attacked".

Not really. Rooney may be playing as the most advanced striker a lot of the time (which actually isn't a necessity - Keane often played deeper than Berbatov in their first season), but his overall game is still focused too much on creating things outside the box rather than really looking to run in behind the defence and attack the box. In assists tally doesn't really show this this season, but that's partly because it just hasn't worked for him and that our other players aren't much of a goal threat.

I also read an extremely good point from someone on here the other day, about the distance in between the two of them. They play too far away from each other. Berbatov is at his devastating best with short little flicks and passes through the defence, but that just doesn't happen as much as it should between those two. Certainly not just Rooney's fault, both of them need to get closer to each other.

Their was a scissor-like movement that Berba-Keane used (especially in the first season) that we should be looking to use a hell of a lot more. The ball would be played up to Berbatov who would be the most advanced striker, and as he held a defender off his back he would actually come back towards his own goal a little. Meanwhile, Keane would be charging up past him and into the opening that the defender has left, and Berbatov would slide the ball right into his path. In the same situation with us it seems more likely Rooney will be running along in front of the defensive line, rather than really attacking the spaces and trusting Berbatov to play him in.

Berbatov needs to play further up the field (which he has improved on this season), and Rooney needs to attack the defensive line with conviction. He may not recieve that ball 9 times out of 10, but when he does it will be a far better chance than otherwise.

 

[Nathan]

its a pity with whats happening to wayne, he seems to want to play everywhere and its impossible. perhaps he needs a break and comes on as a substitute. lets play berbatov and owen together.

 

[Ekeke]

David Villa, at this moment in time, is far superior to Rooney. If we had Villa in our side, it'd be Rooney that would be doing the donkey work.

Not at all.

The player who leads the line does most of the donkey work of chasing down defenders and pressuring them/the goalkeeper and most of the running in behind the defence.

If we had Rooney and Villa, we'd be mad not to play Villa as the furthest forward with his scoring record. We'd want him in the box as much as possible.

And yes he does loads of donkey work for Valencia. He's their hardest working player but sometimes he just has to feed off scraps. And luckily for him his finishing means he can sometimes get on the scoresheet when all he gets all game is a half chance he created for himself.