overall i'd sy he was rated pretty highly.How was Berbatov rated on the Cafe during his Spurs days? One of the best strikers around?
The second coming of Cantona, a 25-30 goal a season player who leads the line. A genius who makes things happen out of nothing like Ronaldinho in his prime, just needing a stage to perform on. A player who could start for us until his mid 30s because he doesnt rely on speed. etc.How was Berbatov rated on the Cafe during his Spurs days? One of the best strikers around?
Sadly this is true.Rooney is one of the most overrated player in the PL.He's got the potential to be a world beater but he isn't there or hasn't achieved consistently long enough for him to be considered that so highly
I don't know what Rooney's done to warrant so much criticism. He's our top scorer and best attacking player, surely he has done well this season? Maybe he's been inconsistent, but he always has been, and he's only 24.
It's our other £30m striker that's failing to produce.
Gee, there's an original thought.
For the record, Berbatov got another limited sub appearance yesterday and made us look more coherent in attack. He was a sub again in the defeat against Villa.No matter what Berbatov does everyones just always going to slate him arent they? I thought when he came on he looked a lot more assured than our other 2 strikers - im not saying that hes better than Rooney but give credit where its due the last few times we've seen Berba and Rooney upfront i thought Berba looked better than Wayne
What was your football highlight of 2009? Being a Leicester City fan, nothing could top promotion back to the Championship for me but elsewhere we had 12 months of tears and laughter, cheating, rants and the world's first £80million player.
It's a time to look back and reflect on the best and worst of what has happened. Stars like Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Didier Drogba and Fernando Torres have graced 2009 but my player of the year is Wayne Rooney, who has grown from world-class talent to the talismanic leader of Manchester United and England.
United were always going to be weakened by Ronaldo going to Real Madrid but the way Rooney has thrived on the extra responsibility has been stunning. He has to be the chief goalscorer and shirt-seller at Old Trafford now. And so far he hasn't put a foot wrong.
It struck me how special he is when I went to Stamford Bridge earlier this season to see Chelsea play United. There were outstanding players on both teams but even in that company Rooney stood head and shoulders above the rest.
Besides winning a third Premier League title in a row, he scored 29 times for club and country in 2009, a great record for a player who offers more than just goals.
If he delivers at the World Cup, we'll be talking about him as the greatest English player of all-time alongside Tom Finney and Bobby Charlton.
Talking of England, Fabio Capello gets my vote as manager of the year, for getting to the World Cup without any palpitations and putting us in a position where we could win it. That is a huge turnaround for a team that didn't qualify for Euro 2008.
Capello has brought discipline to the set-up and given the players confidence. It might be a surprise that Premier League stars can lack self-belief but that was the case with England pre-Capello.
It's totally unfair to include 25 minute cameos! If you want to do that, then pull out a goals to minutes comparison. But don't sit there and try and prove Rooney's superiority by saying he's played 16 and Berbatov has played 15. that's a massively slanted way to view things.Rooney takes the penalties because we know we can rely on him unlike Berbatov who arguably has taken the worst penalty by an United striker last season.
I do like how sub appearances are automatically not included in Berbatov's total. Make him appear better than what he has given. 4 in 10 seems a lot better than 4 in 15 that's for sure.
I guess that brings us to the other point that Rooney is treated differently to Berbatov and that's a fair one. Rooney is a guaranteed starter. Berbatov is not. Therefore we should technically judge them on different scales.
All in all, Rooney certainly hasn't done as well as we would have liked. Thought he started off the season brilliantly, picked up a calf injury and has been rotten since with the odd goal mixed in.
"A great record for someone who offers more than just goals."
Wazza needs world class players around him to get best out of him, at the moment the burden is on him to score, to create..he can't do it all. Anyone who thinks we arent missing ronaldo is deluded. Ive said this before and i say it again, valencia is great and has fitted in nicely on the wing, but we miss ronaldo's flair and most improtantly his goals.... we need a out and out striker dzeko or benzema and a creative player silva,arshavin,modric type player.You know what's coming...
What's happening? Is he ready to burst into life soon? Am I doing him a disservice by questioning his form?
No spark in his game at the moment. So many of his attempted balls through fail to come off. He's not been very prolific this season - again.
And, I noticed today that he tackles like a spastic. He takes a really stupid and unnecessary backlift before making a tackle.
So, who needs to sort themselves out? Me or Wazza?
I don't think there is ONE person on the Caf who says that we don't miss Ronaldo. It's obvious we do.Wazza needs world class players around him to get best out of him, at the moment the burden is on him to score, to create..he can't do it all. Anyone who thinks we arent missing ronaldo is deluded. Ive said this before and i say it again, valencia is great and has fitted in nicely on the wing, but we miss ronaldo's flair and most improtantly his goals.... we need a out and out striker dzeko or benzema and a creative player silva,arshavin,modric type player.
I agree.I don't think there is ONE person on the Caf who says that we don't miss Ronaldo. It's obvious we do.
Whatever you say about burdens or whatever, it doesn't excuse his failures on the fundamentals - simple control, short passing.
Yeah, but world class number 10's are still disciplined in terms of the positions they occupy. Ferguson has stuck Rooney as centre forward and said that he wants him to do less running around and more of being in the right position.In my opinion one of the biggest problems with Rooney is Sir Alex has either played him wide left in a defensive capacity to accomodate Ronaldo or tried to turn him into/use him as your typical number 9...Rooneys neither a winger nor a number 9....id love to see Rooney used where i think and he thinks hes best i.e just off the front in a free role.....give him some license to get around the pitch and use his ability rather than desegnate him a position and put the shackles on him.
Rooney will never be a world class number 9 hes neither quick enough nor has the ruthlessnes finishing ability to be so....he is a world class number 10 or certainly can be when given the chance...
Yeah, but world class number 10's are still disciplined in terms of the positions they occupy. Ferguson has stuck Rooney as centre forward and said that he wants him to do less running around and more of being in the right position.
When we tell Rooney to play in the hole, he thinks it's a license to roam all over the field (halfway line, our own half) and the thing is that he's really feck all use to us doing that. It looks like he's got great tenacity and spirit when he's doing it, but he's too far away from goals to affect the game creatively.
The great number 10s don't dick around in the own half. They don't come deep. They drop off the front line and operate in the pockets of space around 20-35 yards out. Rooney doesn't have any discipline.
1) He's been in the professional game for 8 years now. He's an experienced player. Granted though, he started early, so I'll accept that he's still got plenty of time for development.Yes thats true but dicipline and positional nouse comes with age and experiance though....i think many of us are guilty of forgetting how young Rooney still is...he still has so much to learn i think the media forget that aswell....in my opinion Rooney has the game to be a world class number 10.....i dont think he'll ever be a world class number 9 simply because he dosnt have the attributes....
Id rather he was let off the leash in his favoured role and learned to not waste so much of his energy in defensive areas of the pitch rather than play it safe and have the Rooney weve seen lately...i.e a striker with a good goal return but pretty abject and uninspiring performances...thats just not the wayne Rooney we all saw burst on the scene....
spot fecking on1) He's been in the professional game for 8 years now. He's an experienced player. Granted though, he started early, so I'll accept that he's still got plenty of time for development.
2) Maybe serving his apprenticeship at no 9 will help him learn about occupying more effective positions. I agree it's not ideal, but at least it keeps him in the danger areas.
3) As I said in my previous post, I agree that he can be a natural no 10, but he needs to be disciplined. If he's charging back into our own half then he must realise that he's causing a creative vacuum in the side. Look at your Bergkamps, Zolas and Cantonas - they didn't concern themselves with coming so far deep and helping out the defensive players.
We need to find him a partner. I'm praying that Berbatov can get a run in the side. Ferguson isn't allowing any semblance of a link/partnership develop by continually changing the combinations.Basically are we trying to say Rooney would be perfect just behind a Benzema type strong solid CF?
Basically are we trying to say Rooney would be perfect just behind a Benzema type strong solid CF?
1) He's been in the professional game for 8 years now. He's an experienced player. Granted though, he started early, so I'll accept that he's still got plenty of time for development.
2) Maybe serving his apprenticeship at no 9 will help him learn about occupying more effective positions. I agree it's not ideal, but at least it keeps him in the danger areas.
3) As I said in my previous post, I agree that he can be a natural no 10, but he needs to be disciplined. If he's charging back into our own half then he must realise that he's causing a creative vacuum in the side. Look at your Bergkamps, Zolas and Cantonas - they didn't concern themselves with coming so far deep and helping out the defensive players.
You have to put in to perspective the opposition and defending, for the first goal they didn't even bother to close him down.THIS beast (below) is a totally different player than what we have now
When he had the ball at his feet from 2004 to 2007 or so there was always a moment of aniticipation and his shots were very sweet - now he scuffs then more often than not in the name of 'other areas of his game improving'. I'd rather he becomes world-class at one aspect of his game even if that means not being 'the complete player' by rushing back into the Left-Back position (ala C.Ronaldo)....
His two best partners at United: van Nistelrooy and Saha. They both played off the shoulder. They both like to play towards the opposition goal. Clearly defined centre forwards.Hed be perfect behind any striker with pace who stretches the oppsitions defence we saw that when we had Saha.....i like Berbatov think hes a quality player but no one can deny hes not the ideal partner for Rooney....when we play the pair its Rooney who plays the number 9 role and Berbatov who drops off....
We need to find him a partner. I'm praying that Berbatov can get a run in the side. Ferguson isn't allowing any semblance of a link/partnership develop by continually changing the combinations.
The big problem to me is that Berbatov and Rooney don't look like linking at all.
Yeah, well that's where your coaches and management comes in. They've got to tell him that he can play with all the enthusiasm and appetite that he wants, but unless he starts to play with more positional discipline and focus he'll not break into the top bracket of players.Dont disagree with any of that unfortunatly Rooneys enthusiasm and appetitie for the game however makes him a vastly different animal to the 3 you mentioned there.....in the sense he always wants to be involved and be helping the team rather than thinking selfishly if you like....hence why he spends so much time often to deep and in defensive areas trying to do to much....
Im hopeful with age comes experiance and he'll learn where hes most effective....dont think thatll ever be as a number 9.
His two best partners at United: van Nistelrooy and Saha. They both played off the shoulder. They both like to play towards the opposition goal. Clearly defined centre forwards.
Yeah, well that's where your coaches and management comes in. They've got to tell him that he can play with all the enthusiasm and appetite that he wants, but unless he starts to play with more positional discipline and focus he'll not break into the top bracket of players.
I think it's good that SAF is sticking him up front. At least we're getting goals out of him and forcing him to play in dangerous areas.
I've just read something interesting in the "our strikers" thread that's floating around in the United forum.In the current set up its fine because simply we dont have a regular settled out an out striker for him to play off of unlike when we had Van Nistelrooy and Saha....in that sense i agree its doing him good to learn to focus solely on goalscoring rather than anything else....dosnt change the fact i dont think youll ever get the best out of him in that role long term....
Right now with the other strikers weve got we have little choice but to play him the way we are.
I've just read something interesting in the "our strikers" thread that's floating around in the United forum.
Pogue said that he'd like to see Rooney back out on the left once Giggs is back. It's funny how many of us asked for Rooney to be played through the middle, and now we're all pretty underwhelmed by what we're getting.
He played pretty well last season in the run-in off the left flank.
Rooney left and Berbatov-Owen up front anyone?
Bollocks. Bollocks. Bollocks."A great record for someone who offers more than just goals."
He's not made an assist this season. It's now become a myth that he's an all round forward.
His zero assists would suggest that his game has become increasingly inclined towards goalscoring.Bollocks. Bollocks. Bollocks.
You've clearly lost it if you think Rooney isn't an all round forward.
At the moment, he quite clearly isn't. Lets not mistake potential for current ability.What should be constructive criticism of Wayne just seems to be Rooney bashing. He's one of the most complete forwards in the world.
It's good to be complete but if you can't consistently perform for your club specially in very tough situations then what's the point ? This is the time where the best players roll up their sleeves and carry their teamsWhat should be constructive criticism of Wayne just seems to be Rooney bashing. He's one of the most complete forwards in the world.
He's the definition of an all round forward.Bollocks. Bollocks. Bollocks.
You've clearly lost it if you think Rooney isn't an all round forward.
Complete forwards:What should be constructive criticism of Wayne just seems to be Rooney bashing. He's one of the most complete forwards in the world.
Rooney was the same a couple of years ago, which is the sad part.I think Rooney started well yesterday but got frustrated with the lack of decent service. Both he and Berbatov like to play with the ball and when they are starved of good service they tend to put in crap performances. When the team plays well, they play well, when the team struggles to create chances, they get frustrated and cannot show their best. Ronaldo was less dependent on the way the team performed and looked more determined IMO.
I don't understand why it hasn't.Rooney was the same a couple of years ago, which is the sad part.
I still think he'll be a fantastic player for us at some point, one of the top 5 in the world, but I'm starting to think he'll be doing so as a withdrawn striker rather than in the position he's played for the last couple of years.
There's no doubt in my mind playing him further forward has improved his movement and finishing a lot more than it would if he was played behind a striker, so the idea to play him behind a striker wasn't completely pointless. It just seems likely that we'll buy another striker this summer(or even January) who plays further up the pitch.
It's a shame that the Berbatov-Keane partnership hasn't been replicated and improved on with the Berbatov-Rooney partnership, I really thought it would do.
