Rooney
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I don't know the stats either but I think he scored a bunch in his early weeks the went through a long drought when his lack of match fitness caught up with him.
Yeah, he eventually went 12 games without a goal after it all began to catch up with him.
Rooney has scored more goals than normal at this stage. Helped in no small part by the fact he's taken penalties. His general play has been dire though - I've been to three games this season and he has been useless. Okay in the second half against Arsenal, abysmal against Sunderland and average against Wolves.
He should be receiving better reviews than this.
The "white Pele" / England's saviour crap is still his biggest enemy - nobody can live up to the expectations provoked by scoring a hattrick on your CL debut. Once you start measuring him against real players, not comic book ones, you find he's one of the PLs most consistent goalscorers and he's a good bloke to have on your team.
There's a certain irony in him taking on the Ronaldo get-out-of-jail-free role and getting accused of doing nothing but scoring. There's something a bit sad about complaining about his lack of speed in attack when it's obvious no one can keep up with him (there's a reason why Roo/Ron could look quite so shocking on the break)
Today - I'm out of step with everyone. Ten minutes before and ten minutes after half time I thought I saw a Rooney who is up there with the best in the world, someone who showed a bit of inspiration and a definite threat. Doesn't matter of course, and easily forgotten, because nothing came of it - doesn't mean I didn't see him show more in those minutes than I've seen in complete games including one in which he got a hattrick. The best is yet to come.
There's a certain irony in him taking on the Ronaldo get-out-of-jail-free role and getting accused of doing nothing but scoring. There's something a bit sad about complaining about his lack of speed in attack when it's obvious no one can keep up with him (there's a reason why Roo/Ron could look quite so shocking on the break)
Today - I'm out of step with everyone. Ten minutes before and ten minutes after half time I thought I saw a Rooney who is up there with the best in the world, someone who showed a bit of inspiration and a definite threat. Doesn't matter of course, and easily forgotten, because nothing came of it - doesn't mean I didn't see him show more in those minutes than I've seen in complete games including one in which he got a hattrick. The best is yet to come.
Good post, didnt think he played that well today
I think the dude needs cutting some slack. My daughter is nine months old and I've spent most of that time in a semi coma.
Tell that to Steven Gerrard.
He does exactly that, time and time again.
He just can't do it in every single game they play.
he'll be like scholes, giggs and zidane. and only get better with age
He's been poor for a while and as Feed Me says it's his first touch and basic control as much as his long shots and passing which let him down. He's obviously not crap but right now, for whatever reason, he's nowhere near the player we need him to be or we thought he would be.
But, to be fair, the service is awful to all our strikers. Valencia apart, and even he's not been that good, we've been awful from a creative point of view for a while.
But, to be fair, the service is awful to all our strikers. Valencia apart, and even he's not been that good, we've been awful from a creative point of view for a while.
Steven Gerrard is no longer the player he once was.
I reckon that flag belongs to a single dude with no kids who lives with his mum.
I don't know what Rooney's done to warrant so much criticism. He's our top scorer and best attacking player, surely he has done well this season? Maybe he's been inconsistent, but he always has been, and he's only 24.
It's our other £30m striker that's failing to produce.
It's our other £30m striker that's failing to produce.
Gee, there's an original thought.
The reason Rooney is getting critcised is because we all have far higher expectations of him than we do for any of the other strikers (arguably any other player) in our squad. In recent weeks he's fallen a long way short of these expectations.
This was supposed to be the season where he had a bit of good luck with injuries and finally achieved some consistency. He's managed the former but not the latter. Which is, obviously, disappointing.
No matter what Berbatov does everyones just always going to slate him arent they? I thought when he came on he looked a lot more assured than our other 2 strikers - im not saying that hes better than Rooney but give credit where its due the last few times we've seen Berba and Rooney upfront i thought Berba looked better than Wayne
And yet he's still scoring goals.
Berbatov hasn't been able to do that, nor does he even look like scoring in most matches he plays in. Don't give me that bollocks about him creating goals, because he's only created 2, and has only combined with Rooney for a goal/assist one time. Against West Brom in September of 2008. That's the most concerning thing for me. I think Berbatov is an excellent player but he clearly isn't working well with Rooney.
Owen hasn't looked sharp in most games he's played in, but that's to be expected of a striker we've signed on a free transfer. He's also managed 7 goals despite starting very few games.
Rooney continues to produce goals even if he isn't playing well. He's our top scorer with 13 goals (12 in the League). That doesn't warrant this over-the-top criticism.
Berbatov is an easy and obvious target. He's been discussed to death on here and attracts more than his fair share of criticism.
Take away the penalties and Rooney's averaging 0.5 league goals per game started (8 in 16). Berbatov is averaging 0.4 (4 in 10).
Berbatov has 2 assists in the league. Rooney has none (despite often taking set-pieces).
Does that concern you at all? Not even a little bit?
Bearing in mind you obviously think Berbatov is a complete waste of space, what does that make Rooney?
Take away the penalties and Rooney's averaging 0.5 league goals per game started (8 in 16). Berbatov is averaging 0.4 (4 in 10).
Berbatov has 2 assists in the league. Rooney has none (despite often taking set-pieces).
Does that concern you at all? Not even a little bit?
Bearing in mind you obviously think Berbatov is a complete waste of space, what does that make Rooney?
People want to see the old Wayne, the one that would put United on his back and drive us to victory. Well, I'm afraid he's gone. For good. He's progressed into a team player, which is great when the team is doing ok, and not quite when the team is struggling.
Rooney takes the penalties because we know we can rely on him unlike Berbatov who arguably has taken the worst penalty by an United striker last season.
I do like how sub appearances are automatically not included in Berbatov's total. Make him appear better than what he has given. 4 in 10 seems a lot better than 4 in 15 that's for sure.
I guess that brings us to the other point that Rooney is treated differently to Berbatov and that's a fair one. Rooney is a guaranteed starter. Berbatov is not. Therefore we should technically judge them on different scales.
All in all, Rooney certainly hasn't done as well as we would have liked. Thought he started off the season brilliantly, picked up a calf injury and has been rotten since with the odd goal mixed in.
What's with slating Rooney striclty to defend Berbatov and vise versa?
This reminds me of the nonsense Tevez vs Berbatov wars.
It's sad man, it's sad.
This reminds me of the nonsense Tevez vs Berbatov wars.
It's sad man, it's sad.
Rooney is one of the most overrated player in the PL.He's got the potential to be a world beater but he isn't there or hasn't achieved consistently long enough for him to be considered that so highly
Love the overraction. We've had players taking penalties and hitting them wide or over the target. Trust me, hitting the target is always better.
The one thing is team is lacking is ideas. Berbatov is the one player likely to come up with them. I'd play him and Rooney regularly together in the upcoming weeks. For once and for all, it's time to know if those two can work together. If they can, great. If not, we'll have to make changes this summer. But having Berbatov on the bench, sometimes coming on, sometimes not, is just not going to cut it. He's either going to be a massive player for us, or he shouldn't be around it all. Period.
Not sure how many times Rooney and Berbatov have played together but it is surely over 20 matches. I get the feeling SAF may have given up on it being the mainstay for a long time although I have nothing to back that up with.
Berbatov is probably not getting in the team of late largely due to Giggs being the one providing the team with ideas. Bit pointless having him in when Giggs is doing his role.
As for the penalty incident. I'd rather a player shot wide or over than flimsily go into the keeper's path. Just a personal opinion. Berbatov's shot was flimsy but if it pulled off would have looked assured. Pretty much somes up his United career. But my statement was an exaggeration, seeing as Tim Howard took a poor one for United in a pre-season friendly, bit harsh on Berbatov there.
But anyway this a thread to slag off Rooney. So let's leave it at that.
Our other main option is Owen, and he can't start regularly, so I'd definitely start Rooney and Berbatov regularly. Partly for Rooney's sake - it's surely better than starting alone. Not sure if it's ever going to work, but we haven't got any other options at this stage so we might as well.
Actually I think our main option and one where Rooney has generally played well in this season is with him up top on his own with Giggs and Valencia out wide.
We played that against Chelsea, played that against Arsenal (albeit with Nani instead of Giggs). I won't be surprised to see that used a bit more as the season progresses.
I don't really think it's overall good enough but it's been better than Rooney-Berbatov or Rooney-Owen this season.
We were crap against Arsenal and while our overall performance against Chelsea was good, we weren't very dangerous. But really, while this is the Rooney thread, it comes down to the fact I'm not willing to give up on Berbatov. I want him to get a run in the team because I think he can make a huge difference.
We still won against Arsenal and should have gotten at least a point at Chelsea. And we've had other performances where we've done well with Rooney up front on his own.
We'll see on Berbatov.
Worried about Wazza to be honest... he doesn't look the same player he was even 2-3 years ago remember 06-07 was brilliant, Maybe we expect TOO much from him but I hope he can find his shooting boots from distance
Thats the thing even if he does find his shooting boots he opts to pass when he should shoot, i remember around 70min Berbatov found Rooney out wide he put the ball on his right and then opted to pass to Scholes on the edge of the box when that was a really difficult ball to do.
I agree during the 06-07 season i thought he was brilliant, still had the flare he was strutting in his youth and more importantly the goals/assists/key passes were spot on. I really thought he would kick on from that but it was Ronaldo who had the season i was expecting from Rooney
We got lucky against Arsenal, we were a little unlucky against Chelsea. Problem is we didn't really make enough of our own luck. We got great results against Pompey and West Ham, but the performances (first halves especially) were not all that good. It's a functional formation for certain matches, but I don't think it's one that we should base our team around. And frankly I've had enough of us setting a team according to the opposition. Fine when it's Milan, not when it's Pompey and West Ham. We should have our best formation, and let them worry about it.
I wrote in another thread the other day, he's not the main striker, and never will be. He is a support striker who needs a high-scoring target man to work around and create for.
See im not too sure, SAF likes to have Rooney a head of Berba when we play which makes you think that perhaps our manager sees something in him that we arent seeing right now.
saf also wanted to buy benzema. do you think he would be playing benzema behind rooney? bollocks.
saf is playing rooney ahead of berba because he probably feels that the other way wouldn't work as well since rooney is more flexible than berba. doesn't mean that its the best option. ask fabio.
the quicker saf gets a proper partner for wayne the better for all parties.
Kind of makes you wonder why we actually ending up getting Berbatov and Tevez...
I think it's only because Berba has been found to be completely inadequate to lead the line. SAF has no choice but to place all the burden of defending three Championships on Rooney. He is obviously feeling the pressure.
If we can get a 20+ goals a season striker, Rooney would work off that and make him a 30+ striker while Rooney himself would score 20+. But he'll never be the main striker for us. He needs a target man to work around.
tevez made sense we had ronnie.
i am still forever perplexed by berba. didn't really want him in the first place. and for 30 million...even a bigger laugh. i enjoyed him a spurs since he was fun to watch on highlights. however now that he's been with us, it has been frustrating as all hell. its getting to the point where i'd rather have darrent bent than berbatov.
People were puzzled when we brought Tevez because him and Rooney were seen to be similar, the reason why SAF went for him was because he wanted 3 smart forwards who could interchange and read eachothers runs to deversating effect - and for the most part it worked, we went for Berba because his quality in the final third is better than Tevez's (although people dont really see this because they would see Tevez chase down balls and only see Berba get the ball and release it)
SAF has stated a few times since Saha left that he wants a striker that is different to SS just so they make a impact when they enter a game, take Owen when he doesnt get service hes out of a game but if Berba is in the same position he drops deep as does Rooney - these are strikers that i believe SAF likes because they have the ability to link up with other players and are involved with play all the time. Yes we went for Benzema but that could just be because SAF thinks his all round game would be benefical to us - almost in that Torres mold where hes a out and out striker but he does tend to get involved in play when the balls not coming to him.
Personally i understand why there is this hate for Berbatov but i still cannot understand why people are so eager to point the finger to him and blame him for our short-comings, i mean we are blaming him because hes not getting the best out of Rooney! And if he wasnt playing a part in our build up to goals or scoring then i can understand it but hes got 4 goals so far 3 assist i believe and seems to give us a spark in games - i know you may say 4 goals is nothing but to be fair hes been out for much of the last month or so with injury and is being eased into things it seems.
I suppose you either love Berba or hate him theres no real middle ground
How was Berbatov rated on the Cafe during his Spurs days? One of the best strikers around?