I think they’re ok now they can see their friends at night, as you say. But I have friends with teenage kids who ended up acting almost as though they were depressed during the weeks when they were prohibited from socialising. At that age it’s a nightmare when your parents are your only company.
That doesn’t surprise me at all. My kids go to a state primary school but it’s in a well off area, with parents generally pretty motivated/involved in their education. And there’s been huge variation in the amount of education they’ve been getting. I know for a fact that a bunch of their peers basically missed out on schoolwork altogether. And I can confirm that my own kids sure as shit spent a lot more time dossing about than usual! I also know that kids at fee paying schools were getting several hours of zoom tutorials every day. While we just got a list of stuff to do at the beginning of each week.
That’s another cohort who have been properly screwed by all of this.
Well except a new international study from Karolinska Institute of 10 countries during the pandemic like.
They're still posting the highest case numbers but it's a couple of dozen a day instead of the hundreds or thousands it was at one point. There are only 34 ICU cases left in the whole region out of about 2,000 available beds.
I take my position based on the evidence combined with valuing life over money (take that theists
).As of now - neither of us have posted a study. I also don’t think that no sport for two months will have a massive impact on children’s long term mental health.
Just on the herd immunity thing, I’ve heard a few virologists say that eradication is off the table for any virus that has human and animal hosts. No matter how high you get immunity in people, the virus can hang out amongst animals before making a comeback when human immunity declines. Then we have the idiots who refuse to get vaccinated, which seems to be a bigger problem now than ever before in the history of vaccines.I take my position based on the evidence combined with valuing life over money (take that theists
The available evidence suggests that we will get a vaccine fairly soon, possibly the first before the end of the year. 2021 will most likely see multiole vaccines and a degree of manufacturing and distribution chaos but if we are good and a bit lucky that by the end of the year herd immunity will be within sight.
We know proper lockdowns (not the piss weak UK version) save lives especially if you suppress almost to the point of eradication. The cost benefit in lives is massive. There are of course an economic and other costs with knock on effects, but personally I side with the NZ PM on if the economic price is worth it to save lives.
Many countries have decided to say feck people and show me the money (US) with added incompetence and some have just been incompetent (UK). Harder road back for those countries but the moral choice is the same.
With respect Wibble, discussing this particular topic with you is a bit like discussing Brexit with Paul. We are agreed on almost everything but some positions taken are so extreme (in my own view of course) that it is difficult to reconcile.I take my position based on the evidence combined with valuing life over money (take that theists
The available evidence suggests that we will get a vaccine fairly soon, possibly the first before the end of the year. 2021 will most likely see multiole vaccines and a degree of manufacturing and distribution chaos but if we are good and a bit lucky that by the end of the year herd immunity will be within sight.
We know proper lockdowns (not the piss weak UK version) save lives especially if you suppress almost to the point of eradication. The cost benefit in lives is massive. There are of course an economic and other costs with knock on effects, but personally I side with the NZ PM on if the economic price is worth it to save lives.
Many countries have decided to say feck people and show me the money (US) with added incompetence and some have just been incompetent (UK). Harder road back for those countries but the moral choice is the same.
Agreed. If kids were missing out equally, and just for a few months, it wouldn't be quite so bad.
This is exactly the thing I've been trying to emphasise and very well put.I think this has been part of what @noodlehair for instance has been at pains to emphasise, though at times perhaps more forcefully than he intends to.
I feel like lockdown has been lived in a very different manner by different groups. For instance, within my circles of friends (who are obviously all distinguished people...though I think I've butchered that particular joke), most of them are doctors or nurses, with cast-iron job security or professionals who have jobs they can do quite competently from home. They're people who may go on holidays, eat out yada yada and for them, lockdown has been actually quite easy on their finances, especially those who can work from home. Their salaries are the same, just no longer spending as much so they're actually saving more money than usual currently. Their kids are spending time with their families, watching online lessons on good laptops with good internet connections. Generally, they're in supportive home environments. Etc etc. I suspect that many of the people advocating for the strictest, most indefinite lockdowns etc on here tend to be in this camp themselves.
There are of course many many others in the UK though who aren't living that lifestyle. They may have been let go or furloughed, with severe worry as to whether their job will still exist in a few months time. They may have been worrying about how to feed their children without school vouchers. How they will feed their kids after furlough ends. What if there aren't enough devices to go round for the family for online lessons? What if they have limited internet speeds? What if they don't have their own space to study in and have to share it with 2-3 other loud kids?
There's already evidence that, even moving away from these stark extremes, kids from richer households are doing much more education per day currently than poorer kids.
Then of course we may have the kids who are in abusive households, without their usual outlet from this.
I think it is very important to not forget about these latter groups.
Also, surely if you're supposed to be taking your GCSEs and you're not sure when they'll happen or how months without proper education will impact on your ability to take them, that's quite a big stressor?
Who was it who said "the harder I work the luckier I get" - Even if the NZ government has been lucky it seems to have done some work rather than just try and set up mates with juicy contracts like the corrupt charlatans running England.
Excellent post.I think this has been part of what @noodlehair for instance has been at pains to emphasise, though at times perhaps more forcefully than he intends to.
I feel like lockdown has been lived in a very different manner by different groups. For instance, within my circles of friends (who are obviously all distinguished people...though I think I've butchered that particular joke
There are of course many many others in the UK though who aren't living that lifestyle. They may have been let go or furloughed, with severe worry as to whether their job will still exist in a few months time. They may have been worrying about how to feed their children without school vouchers. How they will feed their kids after furlough ends. What if there aren't enough devices to go round for the family for online lessons? What if they have limited internet speeds? What if they don't have their own space to study in and have to share it with 2-3 other loud kids?
There's already evidence that, even moving away from these stark extremes, kids from richer households are doing much more education per day currently than poorer kids.
Then of course we may have the kids who are in abusive households, without their usual outlet from this.
I think it is very important to not forget about these latter groups.
Also, surely if you're supposed to be taking your GCSEs and you're not sure when they'll happen or how months without proper education will impact on your ability to take them, that's quite a big stressor?
I'm sure there's much more to find but I'll stop there.
Again, excellent post.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Yeah a right shithole. Covid-19 is nothing there compared to the monkey dust addicts.
I got the impression when all this started that Boris had decided to head down the herd immunity path and then changed his mind after about 2 weeks and that contributed to Englands difficulties. I may have this wrong but from afar it seemed to have been part of a muddled response. btw Martin Buchan was a hero of mine, captain at a young age of the town I was born in.
It's been happening and will continue to happen. I agree the issues stem from existing issues within society, but what we are dealing with is an extreme situation being placed on top of that.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856720303373
R0 > 1 for first time since end of lockdown.
That was really interesting and a very good read. I am certainly now thinking there will be issues. Yet reading that rapid meta study, there are definitely questions that arise from the results. For example, “The rapid review suggests that loneliness that may result from disease containment measures in the COVID-19 context could be associated with subsequent mental health problems in young people. Strategies to prevent the development of such problems should be an international priority.” There is a lot of “May” and “could” in this situation because there hasn’t been anything on this scale before. Loneliness is definitely a precursor for mental health issues, i am just not sure how lonely your average teen in isolation has been.
Don't see how it'll work personally. Puregym etc worked on a 'pack em in' model and there's no way they can accommodate as many people who would have been visiting previously.
Was just about to post this.
To be honest you all seem to be speaking at cross purposes. Looking at the impact across all children and to just those who are vulnerable is very different, dismissing one isn't dismissing the other. As is the mental health impact of lockdown compared to the impact of the covid situation across the board.
I'm a doctor. I don't have cast iron job security, nor do a lot of other doctors, especially middle grade ones on training schemes with fixed end-date contracts. What its meant for locum GPs that I know is they've not been able to get jobs with telephone triages now taking up bulk of work in GP which the sessional GPs have been able to cover.I think this has been part of what @noodlehair for instance has been at pains to emphasise, though at times perhaps more forcefully than he intends to.
I feel like lockdown has been lived in a very different manner by different groups. For instance, within my circles of friends (who are obviously all distinguished people...though I think I've butchered that particular joke
There are of course many many others in the UK though who aren't living that lifestyle. They may have been let go or furloughed, with severe worry as to whether their job will still exist in a few months time. They may have been worrying about how to feed their children without school vouchers. How they will feed their kids after furlough ends. What if there aren't enough devices to go round for the family for online lessons? What if they have limited internet speeds? What if they don't have their own space to study in and have to share it with 2-3 other loud kids?
There's already evidence that, even moving away from these stark extremes, kids from richer households are doing much more education per day currently than poorer kids.
Then of course we may have the kids who are in abusive households, without their usual outlet from this.
I think it is very important to not forget about these latter groups.
Also, surely if you're supposed to be taking your GCSEs and you're not sure when they'll happen or how months without proper education will impact on your ability to take them, that's quite a big stressor?
Yeah the taste and smell are relatively new additions despite being talked about by clinicians for ages as being virtually diagnostic of the disease, many missed out on testing due to tight criteria, I think made because capacity to mass test just wasn't there.
"Work out to help out" is the latest in a long line of pointless, vapid, shitty soundbites from this pack of imbeciles. Is there anyone in government who doesn't sound like a fecking marketing graduate?! They're the human equivalent of the OptaSports Twitter with their smarmy "oh I'm so clever" single word statements at the end of their tweets. cnuts.
