Nightclubs are biggest problem. Today Catalunya announced a 2 week ban on them, starting tomorrow. Why they opened them in the first place is beyond me.
No nightclubs, some rules in bars and as much WFH as possible should be enough in most places.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
No nightclubs, some rules in bars and as much WFH as possible should be enough in most places.
There's a bit of an increase over the last few days in Italy, which the government here has highlighted. Tourists are back (even in our village) - I kind of wish they'd go away again, which is selfish of me.
Yes that would be, had no idea nightclubs were back open in Spain.
I feel sorry for the businesses but these types of indoor gatherings like pubs clubs and dining are big spreaders.
I heard Rome are facing lockdown, is there any truth in that?
I'd say it's selfish of them. Why do people feel the need to go on far-flung trips in the middle of a pandemic?
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What's the reasoning behind Asda and Sainsbury's not enforcing mask wearing? I mean the real reason, the one that's hidden behind their "it's up to the police to enforce" excuse.
Feck!Not sure about Asda and Sainsbury's specifically but I've heard that some owners have said that they fear losing profits by turning people away in what's already been a bad year.
Kind of a joke though, isn't it? Government say "wear a mask" and they can just flat out say "no". It's annoying because I haven't seen anything to suggest that it hasn't worked in Scotland so far and yet these stores are now saying "you don't have to wear one if you don't want to".
Not sure about Asda and Sainsbury's specifically but I've heard that some owners have said that they fear losing profits by turning people away in what's already been a bad year.
I was shopping in Sainsbury’s Purley way today and maybe 75% of people at most were wearing masks.
Security guards were not enforcing anything At all.
I really don’t see the point in the rule if nobody will enforce it..........
Security guards were not enforcing anything At all.
I really don’t see the point in the rule if nobody will enforce it..........
They closed some of the main socialising squares a couple of days ago, because there was a rise in cases in Rome and the Lazio region. Half of them have been traced to people who've come in from other countries (India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Iran).
We don't want another lockdown like we had in March, April and May. It was hard here.
Should be up to the state, not retail to enforce the rules. If the police aren't going to do anything about it, then I why would shops bother?
Don't think there's nearly enough police to enforce it in every shop. But shops should be banning people who come in without one. They would not accept someone coming in drunk, knocking stuff over or verbally abusing their staff without chucking them out so I'm not sure how this should be any different. I just think it's an excuse from stores who don't want to lose an extra customer.
75% is a huge jump from 1-2% before at least in my experience, even if yours is 20% before?
My experience around Greater Manchester was zero something percent from Feb to June, then it started to be a topic, grew to about 2% and now the majority will comply.
Because they should care about the safety of their staff?
I don't know where you think there is the resources for stores to just monitor and check every person, food retail especially is not struggling for business and all reporting year on year sales growth so it's not an excuse to lose custom. Quite frankly if one person is lost, it really is no big loss in the grand scheme of a retailer. Operationally stores don't have capacity to manage checking people for masks (talking from experience in running a number of retail stores).
The government needs to pass the responsibility of their laws back to the police to monitor, and if they haven't got the resource then don't expect the private sector to monitor it for them.
That's not the issue really here, nothing has changed significantly since retail opened that has put staff safety at risk. This is about enforcement of a government law at retail level, not about staff safety. They were socially distancing as retail opened and we've not seen this predicted second wave, so I would say that with some common sense the distancing element is helping control the transmission rate. Fortunately the stores I look after all have strong distancing measures and malls will be doing the administration of mask checking.
It's worked in Scotland so far. Every Asda and Sainsbury's I've been into has a couple of staff at the entrance plus their regular security person. No mask and they offer you one. Presumably if you don't take it they tell you to turn around and go away, but I haven't seen anyone attempt that.
Not all shops are in malls and masks are absolutely about staff safety. Any retail business owner who doesn’t take steps to ensure all customers wear masks is letting their staff down. Same with every business. They all have to make sacrifices to keep people safe. In retail, though, they’re putting their staff in harm’s way more than most other businesses. So need to do their bit to protect them. I don’t think every tiny store should have to hire security guards to monitor mask usage but big ones definitely should. The smaller ones will have to rely on posters etc and empowering their staff to refuse to serve people without masks.
Of course, but it should have very clear enforceable guidance from the state.
Without it anybody who gets injured chucking somebody out of a supermarket could be liable. It's rubbish, but the government are the only ones that can really enforce this by giving direct legally led instructions on what to do if somebody isn't wearing one.
It’s just a dress code. You wouldn’t get served in many shops if you walked in wearing a bikini. If you don’t adhere to the dress code then they don’t have to accept your business. Giving shops the power to choose who they will and won’t serve is nothing new.
I would love to agree but I think it's pretty clear that it's beyond that has become politicised for whatever reason. When was the last time you some someone turned away from a supermarket for what they're wearing anyway?
The shops can control it to an extent, but the government really do need to set proper expectations in advance. They only released the full guidance to shops 9 hours before enforcement was supposed to start today......which sums everything up about where the issue actually lies.
It's only a mask & everyone should wear one, but blaming supermarkets for the idiots not doing so one day after weak government advice isn't really the way to go.
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I get the point of the ideals and it’s a nice notion, but in practical sense, in the real world, retail staff aren’t there to police the governments laws. The police themselves aren’t even enforcing it so it doesn’t send a message that this is important, ironically at the hospitals my other half works at has police enforcing masks, so the messages are so inconsistent.
The issue in reality with the UK approach is that if masks are significant enough for retail settings, then they should have enforced something sooner (ie, when they enforced it on public transport). The onus really shouldn’t be on business to operate a nightclub bouncer policy on entrance for masks, especially when business rates that are paid contributes to the policing costs.
If government want to make it enforceable then they need to police it properly, and not have this wishy washy approach littered with inconsistencies.
Whilst it is the role of the police to enforce the law it is the duty of all citizens to abide by and obey the law. Simplistic I know but true none the less. Now only a total dipstick would believe we would ever have enough police officers to ensure enforcement of mask wearing in shops. So to me the answer is simple. If customers refuse to wear a mask but shops continue to allow them to shop then those shops should be closed down until they comply with the law in much the same way as a pub would be for continually serving after hours or a restaurant for breaking hygiene rules. Sorted.
They do it all the time. What about cigarettes? Alcohol? What are shop employed security guards doing other than enforcing a government law about theft? If they can hire security guards to enforce laws which save them money then why can’t they do the same to protect their staff?
By confronting and attempting to turn away people not wearing masks, retail staff could be opening themselves up to higher risk of infection. I think it's reasonable that they shouldn't have to enforce the law. Turning away someone in a bikini isn't a healthy and safety / liability issue.
Then by the same token they should not have to serve them or check out their shopping either as that will put them at a higher risk of infection. To me that's been the trouble with us Brits from day one. It's always been 'Ah but what about' We spend most of our time looking for exceptions so that we can continue just as we always have done and in doing so disappear up our own backsides whilst complaining that nothing is being done. I oft times think I must be a half penny short of a shilling to still have a pride in my nation.
If the police were going around closing down shops and restaurants that weren't enforcing it, as they do here, the shops would soon find a way. The whole mentality in the UK has been wrong since the beginning and it's not just the government's fault.
Other retailers that don't sell items related to licensing don't do it all the time.
Given the rates businesses pay for policing, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to police to do their job of enforcing the law.
Security guards have no more power than citizens by the way, in terms of law enforcement.You're also assuming every retail shop has a security guard in the first place.
Weak communication and messaging around policy is entirely the governments fault.
But people being idiots isnt. I dont need to be told theres a deadly virus going around and maybe I should be a bit careful.
Mixed messaging allows grey areas, and gives opportunity for idiots to thrive. It's a basic communication thing that they've failed at, amongst other catastrophes.
I think people need to realise that the Government advice is for a 'face covering', not a 'face mask'.
A face covering can be a scarf, Bandana, anything which fits over the mouth securely.
So in theory you should be ok walking into a shop with your t shirt hiked up over your nose and mouth.
So really there no excuse for anyone not to follow the advice.
A face covering can be a scarf, Bandana, anything which fits over the mouth securely.
So in theory you should be ok walking into a shop with your t shirt hiked up over your nose and mouth.
So really there no excuse for anyone not to follow the advice.
Well I'm guessing based on your theory you wouldn't be ok, seeing as the hiked up t-shirt wouldn't be secure over the mouth. It's easier just to wear a mask.
There's some tragic stories of a bus driver in France getting battered to death trying to enforce mask wearing and a security guard got shot and killed in the US
People still hiding behind the guise of the governments poor guidance / communication / not written into law.
The government doesn’t mandate rubbering up if you pick up a slag on a night out, but we all know best to put a Johnny on to reduce you or chances of getting the clap.
Just wear a mask ffs
The government doesn’t mandate rubbering up if you pick up a slag on a night out, but we all know best to put a Johnny on to reduce you or chances of getting the clap.
Just wear a mask ffs
I agree but measures can be put in place to reduce risk for checkout staff - plastic barriers, gloves etc. Those should be in place regardless of mask-wearing. Aisle staff should be allowed to avoid people not wearing masks.
If someone refuses to wear a mask and refuses to leave the store what options do staff have? The escalation of enforcement would be some physical altercation.
It's reasonable for staff not to enforce it, but they should report it to the police. Ideally the person would be fined and the chance of it happening again is reduced (especially if the media report it widely enough).
No one is against wearing a mask (EDIT: in this thread), I think everyone is in agreement that masks are the best things to wear currently. The point is around the enforcing of it, should be down to the police, and not retail staff.
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Loads of people are against it.