SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[SinNombre]

I think that may be a bit early. It will take time for all countries and populations to get a vaccine distributed and operating. A large number of countries will vaccinate the elderly and at risk first and then the rest of the population will follow. Significant normalcy will require a high number of countries to have got this all working.

I think for most people here, their normal traveling is limited to within the EU(+UK) or within the US.

I expect the risk compromised people and the rich (who are likelier to travel) vaccinated by end March.

 

[Wibble]

Yes, let's celebrate people being forced through economics to make healthcare decisions.

I will celebrate when selfish feckwits, who put the rest of us at risk, suddenly change their minds when it costs them a bit of cash.

 

[SambaBoy]

Lockdown has been extended in Melbourne. For longer periods that I thought would happen.

Basically no changes until 26 October and that's only if the daily average of 5 cases is hit which is pretty optimistic. Having been in lockdown for 6 months now, with some of the strictest control in the world, I can understand some people's frustration especially when you see the stats in terms of % of deaths etc. Even today, we only have 45 cases, and yet we have a 8PM curfew. This was due to be a temporary measure put in place during stage 3 when cases were rising, now cases are coming down significantly and it's been extended for another 2 weeks to the end of Sept, with the curfew pushed back an hour till 9PM which stays in place till October.

 

[Tony Babangida]

Lockdown has been extended in Melbourne. For longer periods that I thought would happen.

Basically no changes until 26 October and that's only if the daily average of 5 cases is hit which is pretty optimistic. Having been in lockdown for 6 months now, with some of the strictest control in the world, I can understand some people's frustration especially when you see the stats in terms of % of deaths etc. Even today, we only have 45 cases, and yet we have a 8PM curfew. This was due to be a temporary measure put in place during stage 3 when cases were rising, now cases are coming down significantly and it's been extended for another 2 weeks to the end of Sept, with the curfew pushed back an hour till 9PM which stays in place till October.

Its shit isn’t it. I hope the numbers come down faster than forecast.

It’s a fine line between opening up too early and wrecking the economy even more by locking down too long. For me, the worst thing that could happen is opening up and then having a “third-wave” before Xmas, making what we have just been through utterly pointless.

I’ve signed off all social media as I get sick of all the political BS. Just want to get through this so we can hopefully have a normal summer and Xmas.

I broadly agree with the measures taken, I just wish they would explain themselves more. Why do we need a curfew? Why do I need to wear a mask outside if nobody is around?

 

[Stack]

“Winter is coming”

Summer is Coming

 

[Wibble]

Lockdown has been extended in Melbourne. For longer periods that I thought would happen.

Basically no changes until 26 October and that's only if the daily average of 5 cases is hit which is pretty optimistic. Having been in lockdown for 6 months now, with some of the strictest control in the world, I can understand some people's frustration especially when you see the stats in terms of % of deaths etc. Even today, we only have 45 cases, and yet we have a 8PM curfew. This was due to be a temporary measure put in place during stage 3 when cases were rising, now cases are coming down significantly and it's been extended for another 2 weeks to the end of Sept, with the curfew pushed back an hour till 9PM which stays in place till October.

45 cases is still high when many of those are community transmission. Lift restrictions too soon and off we go again.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Summer is Coming

Aye, should help the Victoria situation hopefully. You guys in NZ will have eradicated it again before then anyhow.
Insane the restrictions and lengths they are going to in Australia, no fecks given about anything but Covid-19. Horrible horrible year for anyone living in that State, possible the harshest year for any citizens on the planet who aren’t 70+, very much a nanny state, can’t personally get my head around it.

 

[Tony Babangida]

Aye, should help the Victoria situation hopefully. You guys in NZ will have eradicated it again before then anyhow.
Insane the restrictions and lengths they are going to in Australia, no fecks given about anything but Covid-19. Horrible horrible year for anyone living in that State, possible the harshest year for any citizens on the planet who aren’t 70+, very much a nanny state, can’t personally get my head around it.

If the rest of Australia hadn’t suppressed it so much Vic might not have had to try and get back to zero. But unless we wanted to stay cut off from the rest of the country for the foreseeable future I don’t see any other options. I can’t see other states opening the borders to Victoria if we are a reservoir for virus.

 

[Stack]

45 cases is still high when many of those are community transmission. Lift restrictions too soon and off we go again.

Good luck, keep your chins up, the reward is worth it once you are all sorted

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If the rest of Australia hadn’t suppressed it so much Vic might not have had to try and get back to zero. But unless we wanted to stay cut off from the rest of the country for the foreseeable future I don’t see any other options. I can’t see other states opening the borders to Victoria if we are a reservoir for virus.

But is it even legal for them for close state borders? Has a new law been brought in or does an existing one apply?

 

[Wibble]

But is it even legal for them for close state borders? Has a new law been brought in or does an existing one apply?

The constitutional law is hazy due to the language it was written in.

The most likely section that could make state laws shutting the borders unconstitutional is section 92 that states;

On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free.

The interpretation and application of this section wasn't clarified or agreed upon in over a hundred years until 1988 when “intercourse among the States.” was interpreted as "the purpose of the section is clear enough: to create a free trade area throughout the Commonwealth and to deny the Commonwealth and States alike a power to prevent or obstruct the free movement of people, goods and communications across state boundaries."

However, numerous decisions since have clearly allowed exceptions to that which allow States and Territories to prevent entry if the goods or people coming in are likely to injure the citizens of the State.

For example, in 1992 Justice Brennan said in Nationwide News Pty Ltd v Wills that a law is valid where the true character of the law:

"…is to protect the State or its residents from injury, a law which prohibits or impedes movement of the apprehended source of injury across the border into the State may yet be valid."

So it is almost certain that the new state laws are legal and any legal challenge would fail. As long as a state can show that border closures are required to protect the public and only apply while there is a need they should have their laws upheld. A pretty low bar that is very easy to demonstrate IMO. The Federal government has said as much despite hating the border closures (not that they are the boss of the court).

 

[Wibble]

Insane the restrictions and lengths they are going to in Australia, no fecks given about anything but Covid-19. Horrible horrible year for anyone living in that State, possible the harshest year for any citizens on the planet who aren’t 70+, very much a nanny state, can’t personally get my head around it.

It was only the close to eradication/suppression that allowed the opening up in the first place. Without border restrictions all other states would have been in a far far worse state than they are now and the economic impact far higher. Suck to be in Melbourne at moment I know but it is the only sensible decision.

 

[Blodssvik]

One of my Australian friends is stuck in Europe since march with a now expired visa and in more or less financial ruin. Because of limits to people returning to Australia she expects to be stuck here jumping from couch to couch for another couple of months before hopefully being able to return with an extortion priced flight.

 

[Penna]

Lockdown has been extended in Melbourne. For longer periods that I thought would happen.

Basically no changes until 26 October and that's only if the daily average of 5 cases is hit which is pretty optimistic. Having been in lockdown for 6 months now, with some of the strictest control in the world, I can understand some people's frustration especially when you see the stats in terms of % of deaths etc. Even today, we only have 45 cases, and yet we have a 8PM curfew. This was due to be a temporary measure put in place during stage 3 when cases were rising, now cases are coming down significantly and it's been extended for another 2 weeks to the end of Sept, with the curfew pushed back an hour till 9PM which stays in place till October.

An 8pm curfew would have stopped so much of the rise in cases in Europe. As we know, the vast majority of new infections are amongst younger people who have been going out and socialising during summer evenings.

 

[Wibble]

One of my Australian friends is stuck in Europe since march with a now expired visa and in more or less financial ruin. Because of limits to people returning to Australia she expects to be stuck here jumping from couch to couch for another couple of months before hopefully being able to return with an extortion priced flight.

The daily restrictions numbers also forces airlines to give a large proportion of the seats to 1st class passengers so even you get a booking you are likely to be bumped numerous times before you get home only to have to pay the rather scary cost of hotel quarantine. IMO we should scale returning numbers way up and the government should foot the full cost. The federal government are cheap pricks.

 

[Ady87]

Mahrez & Laporte tested positive for COVID. So do they miss the start of the season?

 

[balaks]

We seem to be on the cusp of another exponential growth curve which will result in the expected second wave just as everything opens up. The fear I have is that the government will simply refuse to shut down in the same way we did previously and the numbers will be enormous. It's a very worrying time.

 

[Massive Spanner]

We seem to be on the cusp of another exponential growth curve which will result in the expected second wave just as everything opens up. The fear I have is that the government will simply refuse to shut down in the same way we did previously and the numbers will be enormous. It's a very worrying time.

The point is that the government should no longer need to take such extreme measures. Those lockdowns were put into place because the virus was a complete unknown, at the time there was no testing capacity, health systems weren't set up to deal with it, all the shops, pubs, offices etc. had no PPE, 2m distancing, or glass panels installed. With all this there now we really shouldn't need to take things to such an extreme level again.

 

[balaks]

The point is that the government should no longer need to take such extreme measures. Those lockdowns were put into place because the virus was a complete unknown, at the time there was no testing capacity, health systems weren't set up to deal with it, all the shops, pubs, offices etc. had no PPE, 2m distancing, or glass panels installed. With all this there now we really shouldn't need to take things to such an extreme level again.

That is all fine if people are living to the social distancing rule - many are yes but there are an absolute ton that don't. Your 17-22 year olds are all out getting pissed every night with their mates and the virus is going through them like crazy at the moment.

 

[Massive Spanner]

That is all fine if people are living to the social distancing rule - many are yes but there are an absolute ton that don't. Your 17-22 year olds are all out getting pissed every night with their mates and the virus is going through them like crazy at the moment.

A bit overdramatic, no? There has been something like one death here in Ireland in the last two weeks. It's quite clear the main danger from this virus isn't it infecting young people who are mostly danger free from it, but the old people those young people could potentially spread it to. So far that hasn't happened, let's hope the people in charge do their jobs well enough so that the vulnerable in society (especially care homes) aren't getting infected like they were before. As I said, lessons need to have been learnt and you'd assume they have learnt and are dealing with it. Let's also hope they don't shut down the entire fecking country again because of teenagers being teenagers. If after six months, four of which the country was in total shutdown, we haven't progressed enough to do anything beyond "oh no, the numbers have gone up a bit again, shut everything down" then we're truly fecked until the vaccine comes along.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A bit overdramatic, no? There has been something like one death here in Ireland in the last two weeks. It's quite clear the main danger from this virus isn't it infecting young people who are mostly danger free from it, but the old people those young people could potentially spread it to. So far that hasn't happened, let's hope the people in charge do their jobs well enough so that the vulnerable in society (especially care homes) aren't getting infected like they were before. As I said, lessons need to have been learnt and you'd assume they have learnt and are dealing with it. Let's also hope they don't shut down the entire fecking country again because of teenagers being teenagers. If after six months, four of which the country was in total shutdown, we haven't progressed enough to do anything beyond "oh no, the numbers have gone up a bit again, shut everything down" then we're truly fecked until the vaccine comes along.

You can’t put that all on “the people in charge”. The best way to protect the elderly (only a very small % of whom are in care homes) is to keep community transmission low and that’s down to each and every one of us doings our best to keep social contacts to a minimum, avoid unnecessary travel, making sure we wash our hands and all the other boring stuff we’re all sick to death of doing. It’s no fun but we have to keep at it. If we don’t a lot of people will die and we’ll be partly responsible.

 

[Wibble]

A bit overdramatic, no? There has been something like one death here in Ireland in the last two weeks. It's quite clear the main danger from this virus isn't it infecting young people who are mostly danger free from it, but the old people those young people could potentially spread it to. So far that hasn't happened, let's hope the people in charge do their jobs well enough so that the vulnerable in society (especially care homes) aren't getting infected like they were before. As I said, lessons need to have been learnt and you'd assume they have learnt and are dealing with it. Let's also hope they don't shut down the entire fecking country again because of teenagers being teenagers. If after six months, four of which the country was in total shutdown, we haven't progressed enough to do anything beyond "oh no, the numbers have gone up a bit again, shut everything down" then we're truly fecked until the vaccine comes along.

if you ignore the long term and potentially permanent affects those who get it badly are often afflicted with. Death or a bit of a cough aren't the only options by a long chalk.

And all of us doing our bit will save many old people's lives no matter what the authorities do.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You can’t put that all on “the people in charge”. The best way to protect the elderly (only a very small % of whom are in care homes) is to keep community transmission low and that’s down to each and every one of us doings our best to keep social contacts to a minimum, avoid unnecessary travel, making sure we wash our hands and all the other boring stuff we’re all sick to death of doing. It’s no fun but we have to keep at it. If we don’t a lot of people will die and we’ll be partly responsible.

If it came across that I was doing that, then that's not what I meant at all. Obviously it's up to everyone to take the right steps to control transmission but that's sort of my point, most people are. Most people are adhering to the steps they've been told to since the lockdown. Social distancing, wear a mask, wash your hands, etc. and rightly so. Which is why shutting the country down again because of "some teenagers partying every night" would be a massive slap in the face to most people.

Needless to say I don't agree with it at all, I think the effects of another prolonged lockdown would be catastrophic, beyond anything Covid-19 itself has caused thus far, and not just economically. That's why I actually want those in charge to come up with a proper plan that helps us to live with this virus and not just shut down the whole country again once cases go up.

if you ignore the long term and potentially permanent affects those who get it badly are often afflicted with. Death or a bit of a cough aren't the only options by a long chalk.

And all of us doing our bit will save many old people's lives no matter what the authorities do.

I wasn't ignoring it. I think "often" is a stretch though, do we actually have any studies yet showing the percentage of people left with long term issues? Especially younger people?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If it came across that I was doing that, then that's not what I meant at all. Obviously it's up to everyone to take the right steps to control transmission but that's sort of my point, most people are. Most people are adhering to the steps they've been told to since the lockdown. Social distancing, wear a mask, wash your hands, etc. and rightly so. Which is why shutting the country down again because of "some teenagers partying every night" would be a massive slap in the face to most people.

Needless to say I don't agree with it at all, I think the effects of another prolonged lockdown would be catastrophic, beyond anything Covid-19 itself has caused thus far, and not just economically. That's why I actually want those in charge to come up with a proper plan that helps us to live with this virus and not just shut down the whole country again once cases go up.

Ok, gotcha. I agree with you. I also don’t think we will end up locking the whole country down again. As you said, that bought us time to sort out basic stuff like testing and supply of PPE. We’re in a much better place now so even if cases get as high as they did in March/April I think we’ll muddle through without a national lockdown.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Ok, gotcha. I agree with you. I also don’t think we will end up locking the whole country down again. As you said, that bought us time to sort out basic stuff like testing and supply of PPE. We’re in a much better place now so even if cases get as high as they did in March/April I think we’ll muddle through without a national lockdown.

Yeah most likely. I don't particularly like the scarmongering from the HSE CEO last week about them potentially being overwhelmed once flu season hits, but, HSE gon' HSE. I'm pretty sure I could overwhelm the HSE by breaking my baby finger anyway.

 

[Wibble]

Yeah most likely. I don't particularly like the scarmongering from the HSE CEO last week about them potentially being overwhelmed once flu season hits, but, HSE gon' HSE. I'm pretty sure I could overwhelm the HSE by breaking my baby finger anyway.

It isn't scaremongering. Winter could be a huge issue if this virus thrives in winter like many others do.

 

[11101]

We seem to be on the cusp of another exponential growth curve which will result in the expected second wave just as everything opens up. The fear I have is that the government will simply refuse to shut down in the same way we did previously and the numbers will be enormous. It's a very worrying time.

That won't happen again. The virus was an unknown and so was its prevalence. Now we understand how it works, how it spreads and how to manage it, even if we never manage to cure/vaccinate against it.

In Italy for example everything was reopened gradually over the last 4 months with no rise in cases. Activities were categorised and they seem to have got them spot on. Shops, restaurants, gyms etc all reopened without issue and we therefore know they are relatively safe to keep open as long as certain rules are kept in place. What has triggered a renewed rise is travel, so if we see restrictions again it will be around that i think.

 

[Massive Spanner]

It isn't scaremongering. Winter could be a huge issue if this virus thrives in winter like many others do.

It is because it's the HSE and that's what they do best. Closely followed by everything other than providing a good national health service.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It is because it's the HSE and that's what they do best. Closely followed by everything other than providing a good national health service.

ouch!

You’re right though, citing the flu is just stupid as flu dropped off a cliff absolutely everywhere, with and without lockdowns in March 2020. Nothing suggests it won’t be anything other than a very quiet flu season due to social distancing, better hygiene and the restrictions all countries still have in place. The Covid threat means anyone with even slight flu symptoms won’t be “soldiering on” at the workplace or being left at school.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah most likely. I don't particularly like the scarmongering from the HSE CEO last week about them potentially being overwhelmed once flu season hits, but, HSE gon' HSE. I'm pretty sure I could overwhelm the HSE by breaking my baby finger anyway.

He’s right though. And “scaremongering” is really just trying to get people to cop the feck on and stop pretending the virus is somehow less dangerous now than it was in spring.

The combination of currently rising covid cases with the arrival of autumn/winter, people spending more time indoors and all the other seasonal illnesses hitting us will put our health service under huge pressure. So why shouldn’t the head of that health service point this out?

To be honest, I’m genuinely at a loss about how to get everyone to stay vigilant. People are so jaded that the warnings from NPHET and the HSE are going in one ear and out the other. Plus they’re immersed in social media that tells them what they want to hear “We’ll be grand... cos T cells” It’s a real pity and a lot of people will die as a result but I honestly don’t know how to fix this issue.

 

[Dave_MUFC]

A bit overdramatic, no? There has been something like one death here in Ireland in the last two weeks. It's quite clear the main danger from this virus isn't it infecting young people who are mostly danger free from it, but the old people those young people could potentially spread it to. So far that hasn't happened, let's hope the people in charge do their jobs well enough so that the vulnerable in society (especially care homes) aren't getting infected like they were before. As I said, lessons need to have been learnt and you'd assume they have learnt and are dealing with it. Let's also hope they don't shut down the entire fecking country again because of teenagers being teenagers. If after six months, four of which the country was in total shutdown, we haven't progressed enough to do anything beyond "oh no, the numbers have gone up a bit again, shut everything down" then we're truly fecked until the vaccine comes along.

I hate the argument people use with low deaths related to not needing to worry at all.

What I've learnt from some people's experiences over the last few months is that perfectly healthy people in their 20s and 30s have started to have trouble with fitness and shortness of breath months after kicking the flu symptoms, and people not recovering their sense of taste or smell.

Not sure about you, but I think I'd prefer not to risk having those issues long term.

 

[Massive Spanner]

He’s right though. And “scaremongering” is really just trying to get people to cop the feck on and stop pretending the virus is somehow less dangerous now than it was in spring.

The combination of currently rising covid cases with the arrival of autumn/winter, people spending more time indoors and all the other seasonal illnesses hitting us will put our health service under huge pressure. So why shouldn’t the head of that health service point this out?

To be honest, I’m genuinely at a loss about how to get everyone to stay vigilant. People are so jaded that the warnings from NPHET and the HSE are going in one ear and out the other. Plus they’re immersed in social media that tells them what they want to hear “We’ll be grand... cos T cells” It’s a real pity and a lot of people will die as a result but I honestly don’t know how to fix this issue.

I keep hearing this but surely far less people will get the flu this year, though? Don't all the measures put in place for Coronavirus basically do the same thing to the seasonal flu? Plus the fact that the flu jab is surely going to be given to likely quadruple the amount that usually gets it What am I missing here exactly?

I reckon (and I'm an idiot with no medical knowledge but this is a Utd form on the internet so I'll say give my opinion dammit!) that the biggest problem for the HSE will be the shit-tonnes of people freaking out thinking they've Covid-19 and ringing their GP's and going for tests when it turns out all they have is a cold.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I hate the argument people use with low deaths related to not needing to worry at all.

I hate when people say shit like this as soon as anyone even remotely suggests that we shouldn't just go full throttle back into lockdown or take extreme measures, as if to say I don't care about people's health and wellbeing, when it's the total opposite. I never said we don't need to worry at all, far from it. I've been taking more care than most when it comes to Covid-19. Since cases started going up again we've cancelled all visits to friends and family, don't go out for food or drink or whatnot. I don't want to catch it, or my partner to catch it, or my family, I know how much of a bastard it is.

But stopping it outright at the cost of all else can't be the endgame here, it's going to be around for a while and I just think we need to figure out a way to live with it. Keeping vulernable people isolated, cancelling cancer screenings and outpatient appointments, and delaying surgeries endlessly that are already massively delayed is a fecking dangerous situation to be in, never mind the economic effects. Right now our hospitals have never been quieter and that's a really BAD thing, because when things start to go back to normal, it's going to be horrendous. I know plenty of healthcare workers who are terrified of how bad things will get again once this is over.

For the record, I fecking loved lockdown. If another lockdown was announced tomorrow, from a personal perspective, I'd be delighted. Work from home full time, no commitments, save a fortune, no commuting, not have to go to stupid rearranged weddings, it's the best! But I think another one would be very, very bad for the country overall, is all.

 

[Mb194dc]

I hate when people say shit like this as soon as anyone even remotely suggests that we shouldn't just go full throttle back into lockdown or take extreme measures, as if to say I don't care about people's health and wellbeing, when it's the total opposite. I never said we don't need to worry at all, far from it. I've been taking more care than most when it comes to Covid-19. Since cases started going up again we've cancelled all visits to friends and family, don't go out for food or drink or whatnot. I don't want to catch it, or my partner to catch it, or my family, I know how much of a bastard it is.

But stopping it outright at the cost of all else can't be the endgame here, it's going to be around for a while and I just think we need to figure out a way to live with it. Keeping vulernable people isolated, cancelling cancer screenings and outpatient appointments, and delaying surgeries endlessly that are already massively delayed is a fecking dangerous situation to be in, never mind the economic effects. Right now our hospitals have never been quieter and that's a really BAD thing, because when things start to go back to normal, it's going to be horrendous. I know plenty of healthcare workers who are terrified of how bad things will get again once this is over.

For the record, I fecking loved lockdown. If another lockdown was announced tomorrow, from a personal perspective, I'd be delighted. Work from home full time, no commitments, save a fortune, no commuting, not have to go to stupid rearranged weddings, it's the best! But I think another one would be very, very bad for the country overall, is all.

Good post, governments need start with the end game and work backwards.

If sars cov 2 does turn out to essentially be "new flu", with an annual season and impossible to get rid of, what does anyone imagine more lockdown will achieve? Surely just dragging the crisis out over a longer period of time.

Lockdown was only ever justifiable from the perspective of either reducing the load on hospitals to prevent a higher than needed death rate or because there will be some medical magic bullet and everything will go back to normal. If neither of those is happening or in the second case not possible, there is only one choice.

Get on with normal life again and learn to live it with, whilst taking common sense measures to reduce mortality from it.

 

[DixieDean]

Why does Australia take any outbreak so seriously and go into full lockdown again? They do this with even relatively few cases. Yet here in the UK, we've got cases popping off left and right and everything is opening again here? The difference is incredible.

I'm not saying we should live in full lockdown until it's gone, but we seem to have gone from one extreme to the other. I was in the supermarket the other day and only half the people had masks on.

 

[BootsyCollins]

Ive heard talk about this before, and today i saw a Norwegian scientist claiming that many more then what we know already are imune (or partial imune) to Covid-19 because of earlier infections from coronoviruses.
He think it will be many papers released regarding this topic soon that will show the same thing, and that it help explaining why young people suffer less since their imune system have not forgotten the last infection yet.

So to the expert panel here, whom i enjoy reading post from very much btw even if i dont grasp or agree with everything, what do you think? Is there any truth in this and if it is, is it big enough to make a difference?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I keep hearing this but surely far less people will get the flu this year, though? Don't all the measures put in place for Coronavirus basically do the same thing to the seasonal flu? Plus the fact that the flu jab is surely going to be given to likely quadruple the amount that usually gets it What am I missing here exactly?

I reckon (and I'm an idiot with no medical knowledge but this is a Utd form on the internet so I'll say give my opinion dammit!) that the biggest problem for the HSE will be the shit-tonnes of people freaking out thinking they've Covid-19 and ringing their GP's and going for tests when it turns out all they have is a cold.

There will definitely be less cases of flu this winter than normal. The problem is the usual flu season brings hospitals to their knees every year. So even a very mild flu season - on top of covid - will cause huge problems.

 

[jojojo]

I reckon (and I'm an idiot with no medical knowledge but this is a Utd form on the internet so I'll say give my opinion dammit!) that the biggest problem for the HSE will be the shit-tonnes of people freaking out thinking they've Covid-19 and ringing their GP's and going for tests when it turns out all they have is a cold.

I'm getting worried about the opposite at the moment! I think as we tell the minimal symptom/asymptomatic to get tested, we need to respect them for having done the responsible thing and getting tested.

There's a danger with ideas like local lockdowns that we then proceed to put the blame on "the young" "the irresponsible" and increasingly "the poor" stopping us "goodies" from doing things. Which on turn encourages people to hide/ignore symptoms or concerns.

In effect we could accidentally reduce our ability to do test/track/trace by demonising people who catch it.

The approach has to change direction to testing, tracing and successful self-isolation - with targeted help for low paid, zero hours contract workers etc and support for people living in large households, particularly multi-generation ones.

Telling people off for catching it, and testing positive, and therefore "spoiling it for the rest of us" is a real risk in the way some reports/policies are being presented at the moment.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm getting worried about the opposite at the moment! I think as we tell the minimal symptom/asymptomatic to get tested, we need to respect them for having done the responsible thing and getting tested.

There's a danger with ideas like local lockdowns that we then proceed to put the blame on "the young" "the irresponsible" and increasingly "the poor" stopping us "goodies" from doing things. Which on turn encourages people to hide/ignore symptoms or concerns.

In effect we could accidentally reduce our ability to do test/track/trace by demonising people who catch it.

The approach has to change direction to testing, tracing and successful self-isolation - with targeted help for low paid, zero hours contract workers etc and support for people living in large households, particularly multi-generation ones.

Telling people off for catching it, and testing positive, and therefore "spoiling it for the rest of us" is a real risk in the way some reports/policies are being presented at the moment.

Agree 100%. I got tested recently and the single biggest factor that had me thinking “maybe it’s just a cold, can I avoid getting tested?” was worrying about what people would think of me. Especially if friends I’d recently been in touch with ended up locked in their house for a fortnight as a result. Now I’m old/secure/thick skinned enough to not really care what anyone thinks of me but I can absolutely relate to people who might be worried about getting tested with all the “victim shaming” going on about covid these days. We need to find a way to change this narrative.

 

[jderbyshire]

I work in a shop between Salford and Bolton (the two most infectious areas in the country) and we still have people coming in without masks, paying cash. Amazes me.

I think a lot of people are simply not arsed about being alive.