SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

F-Red

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Ive just been given an appointment for my Vaccine, and whilst Im delighted, and cant wait for saturday I dont know why I am getting it yet? Im 39, no underlying health risks apart from very very mild asthma, (I havent used an inhaler in five years) Im not going to say no but feel slightly cheeky for getting it?
Where are you based?

On your age, it would class you as Group 6 in the JCVI's ranking:

all individuals aged 16 years[footnote 2] to 64 years with underlying health conditions which put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality[footnote 3]
I know there was a reporter in Liverpool recently who got invited for the vaccine, was a result of them having the wrong height for him on his records. It resulted in them giving him a crazy high BMI, and they put him as a priority based on that. Not saying that your in the similar boat.

If you've had an invitation, I wouldn't worry and just take your opportunity.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Where are you based?

On your age, it would class you as Group 6 in the JCVI's ranking:



I know there was a reporter in Liverpool recently who got invited for the vaccine, was a result of them having the wrong height for him on his records. It resulted in them giving him a crazy high BMI, and they put him as a priority based on that. Not saying that your in the similar boat.

If you've had an invitation, I wouldn't worry and just take your opportunity.
Is having a high BMI on its own enough to be top of the queue right now?
 

Sparky_Hughes

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Where are you based?

On your age, it would class you as Group 6 in the JCVI's ranking:



I know there was a reporter in Liverpool recently who got invited for the vaccine, was a result of them having the wrong height for him on his records. It resulted in them giving him a crazy high BMI, and they put him as a priority based on that. Not saying that your in the similar boat.

If you've had an invitation, I wouldn't worry and just take your opportunity.
Hereford England
 

F-Red

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Is having a high BMI on its own enough to be top of the queue right now?
Not that I'm aware of, but it triggered an invite to this reporter to get one in Liverpool so it made me think that they might be factoring it into their selection criteria.

On a personal note, my Mum finally got her appointment through today which is a big weight lifted.
 

Arruda

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There’s a counter argument to that though Pogue, as in Portugal is exactly the situation the health authority here warned about and wanted to avoid at all costs.
If lockdowns are misused, they can, and have lead to champagne cork effects when lifted.

Instead of flattening the curve over the entire duration of the pandemic, Portugal misused lockdowns in the Spring and November to devastating effect.
Arruda himself blamed the November restrictions “in preparation for xmas” for causing a champagne cork clusterfeck.
For what it's worth I didn't blame the November restrictions - they were a response to a steady increase in cases since October. I blamed lifting of those restrictions for Christmas, which was exactly what caused loss of control @Pogue Mahone . We weren't in lockdown during the most critical period, when families got together by the dozens, students travel from cities back to their hometowns, etc. A mild lockdown after the chaos and situation is getting under control again. This is so predictable and obvious that makes it the more appalling that restrictions were eased below baseline for the most critical period.

The "preparing for Christmas" comment was a criticism of political discourse. In November they were trying to goad people into behaving well so that restrictions could be lifted. And they were.

By the way, we didn't have a proper lockdown since the first wave. What I mean by "lockdown" is restriction of social events, such as reastaurants and bars, private gatherings etc. Schools were kept open during the first trimester. At most, in critical times, curfew has been imposed after 8pm and a bit earlier on weekends. Early in the pandemic they enforced restrictions on traveling between areas too, to better control the "private" gatherings part. None of this was applied for Christmas, it was basically a free-for-all with masks on. Which people don't use in prolivate gatherings anyway..
 

Pogue Mahone

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Not that I'm aware of, but it triggered an invite to this reporter to get one in Liverpool so it made me think that they might be factoring it into their selection criteria.

On a personal note, my Mum finally got her appointment through today which is a big weight lifted.
I saw that yesterday and was a bit confused about why just being obese was enough to get a vaccine already.

Congrats on your mum’s appointment. Must be a huge relief. Will be another few weeks before my folks get done. The wait is painful.
 

Ecstatic

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The excess death stats are interesting.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

They certainly seem to suggest that the major error was Boris's initial response but since then the management hasn't been too bad compared to other large Euro nations.

It also suggests that there been a fair amount of cooking of the books in countries like Portugal, Spain and Italy whilst the shocking numbers from the UK and Belgium appear to be accurately reported.

The deaths from Covid reported in Russia at 56k whilst excess deaths stand at 368k are shocking but predicatable.
Good article, thanks.

Extract below

 

F-Red

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Congrats on your mum’s appointment. Must be a huge relief. Will be another few weeks before my folks get done. The wait is painful.
Massively, more for her benefit than anything else. She's a level below shielding status so didn't any support benefits from it, but has remained in a very quiet existence in the past year. Her first grand child was born just before lockdown so hopefully she now gets time to get to know her properly.

Why do vaccines appear to be slowing now?
Last week it was reported that there is going to a slight dip in Pfizer supply due to a rephrasing of their delivery schedule. It looks like it'll pick up in March.
 

Wolverine

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Ive just been given an appointment for my Vaccine, and whilst Im delighted, and cant wait for saturday I dont know why I am getting it yet? Im 39, no underlying health risks apart from very very mild asthma, (I havent used an inhaler in five years) Im not going to say no but feel slightly cheeky for getting it?
You're not alone. Saw a few very mild asthmatics today (including many who haven't been on a preventer or used any relievers for yonks). I think the invitations for the clinically vulnerable are based on algorithms that pick up major, active clinical conditions coded on primary care software system at GP practices. For a few conditions I think their algorithm isn't great at differentiating asthmatics well.

Don't feel cheeky though, not your fault. I was happy to give out the vaccines today to everyone including some very young, slightly bemused patients who came in.

Good news is that in March we are due to have a huge influx of Pfizer as well which is encouraging
 

Wolverine

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Well, that's ridiculous. What about alcoholics and smokers?
Full list is aged sixteen and over with the conditions listed below. Alcoholics and smokers would depend if they have organ dysfunction/clinical disease
  • chronic respiratory disease, including chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), cystic fibrosis and severe asthma
  • chronic heart disease (and vascular disease)
  • chronic kidney disease
  • chronic liver disease
  • chronic neurological disease including epilepsy
  • Down’s syndrome
  • severe and profound learning disability
  • diabetes
  • solid organ, bone marrow and stem cell transplant recipients
  • people with specific cancers
  • immunosuppression due to disease or treatment
  • asplenia and splenic dysfunction
  • morbid obesity
  • severe mental illness
 

lynchie

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Good article, thanks.

Extract below

Last week was a low point for AZ supply according to the Scottish forecasts that were released back in January (and then quickly retracted) and as F-red posted there was an expected temporary slowdown in Pfizer. I've seen a number of doctors suggesting they're expecting big influxes of doses over the next couple of weeks, so could rapidly get back on track.

Apparently 65-69 is going so well they're calling in 64 year olds now.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/02/...thirds-of-65-69-year-olds-already-vaccinated/
 

Pogue Mahone

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Good article, thanks.

Extract below

If I’m interpreting that correctly there’s still no separation in outcomes according to age? (i.e. vaccination status)

Has anyone seen any Uk data which looks like what we saw in Israel? I know there’s been some good data coming out of Scotland. Not seen anything at a UK level though.
 

F-Red

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F-Red

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That is no one knows, how effective any of the vaccines are against the South African variant, or the brazil variant. There is also still some questions about the Kent variant. The uncertainty seems to be even higher when it comes to how the Oxford Vaccine will protect against the variants, which is the vaccine the UK has ordered the most doses of so the 1 likely to be received by most people. Plus these are just the current variants.

No one has any idea what gonna happen when we start opening up. Anyone saying otherwise is just lying.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Thanks. Getting just over 50% efficacy 3 weeks after single dose of Pfizer. Good but not amazing. Hospitalisations and deaths cut by about half. Again, good, but nowhere near the 100% protection against severe disease line that’s been trotted out recently.

They also don’t seem to have any results for AZ vaccine in there. Not sure why.

Obviously, still early days so hopefully get better idea in weeks ahead. I’m finding it quite frustrating reading Telegraph headlines about fantastic data on vaccines in England when the reality seems a bit less hyperbolic.

EDIT: Although primary care data in Scotland does look very good (see above)
 

United Hobbit

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Unbelievable- they're pushing to delay the Grand National until betting shops are open, as it's the biggest betting event of the year

https://www.skysports.com/racing/ne...kmakers-back-proposal-to-delay-grand-national

Yes let's encourage crowding round betting shops!

Looks like the flipping hunts are already planning to be back out as they class themselves as "organised sport" so will be back from 29th March.....
 

lynchie

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Thanks. Getting just over 50% efficacy 3 weeks after single dose of Pfizer. Good but not amazing. Hospitalisations and deaths cut by about half. Again, good, but nowhere near the 100% protection against severe disease line that’s been trotted out recently.

They also don’t seem to have any results for AZ vaccine in there. Not sure why.

Obviously, still early days so hopefully get better idea in weeks ahead. I’m finding it quite frustrating reading Telegraph headlines about fantastic data on vaccines in England when the reality seems a bit less hyperbolic.

EDIT: Although primary care data in Scotland does look very good (see above)
I think the reduction in hospitalisation is on top of the reduction in cases as I read it. So they're half as likely to get covid, and then if they do, half as likely to get it badly. That would be consistent with the Scottish data.

The reason for no AZ in that report is that it is focused on the earliest roll out when it was all Pfizer. That also means that we're judging effectiveness in the very frailest of the population, where even a fairly mild hit could have severe consequences, so they were never likely to hit 100% success.
 

F-Red

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Unbelievable- they're pushing to delay the Grand National until betting shops are open, as it's the biggest betting event of the year

https://www.skysports.com/racing/ne...kmakers-back-proposal-to-delay-grand-national

Yes let's encourage crowding round betting shops!
They're looking to do it after June 21st, I don't really see any issue with this? Considering all of the 40+ groups would of had their second dose by then, and hopefully a decent number of the age groups below.
 

F-Red

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Sparky_Hughes

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You're not alone. Saw a few very mild asthmatics today (including many who haven't been on a preventer or used any relievers for yonks). I think the invitations for the clinically vulnerable are based on algorithms that pick up major, active clinical conditions coded on primary care software system at GP practices. For a few conditions I think their algorithm isn't great at differentiating asthmatics well.

Don't feel cheeky though, not your fault. I was happy to give out the vaccines today to everyone including some very young, slightly bemused patients who came in.

Good news is that in March we are due to have a huge influx of Pfizer as well which is encouraging
Cheers for the info, much appreciated.
Are you fat shaming @Sparky_Hughes? ;)
:lol: 5 years and 15 stone ago he might have had a point.
 

F-Red

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You're referring to a manufacturer there, Topglove, who produce the largest volume of nitrile gloves in the world. Pretty much all governments would have sourced PPE from this supplier at some point during the pandemic. It's not an exclusively UK thing, nor any form of cronyism that you was originally implying. There are far worse suppliers on the government books that should have more focus on. Back to your point in April...

If the political will was there to get the proper kit to NHS staff, it could be done in days. That should tell you something.
If you're going to get the kit to the NHS quickly then you have to engage with the biggest global supplier of gloves. The aftermath of ethical procurement of PPE at a time of critical supply in the pandemic is hindsight at best. It's back the analogy of good, cheap, fast. You'll never get all three without sacrificing one. Considering the wider rhetoric in a pandemic was that PPE was urgently needed, and then the inquests we've seen of the prices paid, doesn't surprise me that Far East suppliers were trying to send in substandard product to meet demand (from my own experience if you give a factory an inch, they'll try to take a mile).
 

Wolverine

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Hancock is trying to re-write history, here is the NAO report
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/u...-PPE-during-the-COVID-19-pandemic-Summary.pdf

That's being cited by him to claim that there was no PPE shortage nationally. Same report says
Member surveys by the British Medical Association, the Royal College of Nursing, the Royal College of Physicians and Unison in April and May 2020 showed that a significant proportion (at least 30%) of participating care workers, doctors and nurses reported having insufficient PPE, even in high-risk settings.
Hospitals in many areas were largely ok, but there were many areas, many days when we had to ration supply. Community support was minimal, we had to source our own supply, local manufacturers for visors etc. Government trying to state that there were "individual problems" rather than systemic to downplay just how bad the situation was at the time. They'll probably get away with it.
 

Eire Red United

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Hancock is trying to re-write history, here is the NAO report
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/u...-PPE-during-the-COVID-19-pandemic-Summary.pdf

That's being cited by him to claim that there was no PPE shortage nationally. Same report says


Hospitals in many areas were largely ok, but there were many areas, many days when we had to ration supply. Community support was minimal, we had to source our own supply, local manufacturers for visors etc. Government trying to state that there were "individual problems" rather than systemic to downplay just how bad the situation was at the time. They'll probably get away with it.
They’re some craic.
 

golden_blunder

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Interesting.
It is, but we all know that the main transmission is not coming from the kids but those dropping off, picking up and congregating for a good old chat. At my school I see some parents picking up kids from multiple households.

also I know from seeing it happen, there are kids brought to school sick. Parents aren’t getting their kids tested so not going to show up as positive cases