SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[africanspur]

Do you think so?

My experience is the opposite. Almost everybody I know who is unvaxxed is on Facebook posting memes and will go off on one about it all at the drop of a hat. The ones who were just a little unsure are now satisfied after x billion doses it's not going to kill them and have rolled their sleeve up.

I'm going more by what I've seen in hospital to be fair, as opposed to the facebook echo chambers, where you're much more likely to see people shout about the new world order and great replacement and all this nonsense.

We of course see some of those in the hospital too. In fact, we had an appalling case of a guy in his 30s a few months back with no medical history, not overweight, unvaxxed who had it and arrested in the HDU literally just as his wife walked in to visit him. She would not leave while we were trying to resuscitate and at one point was even trying to record on her phone! Sadly he passed away and someone ran into her in the corridor a while later and she said she still wouldn't get vaccinated. We had another who wanted to treat their relative with herbs and thought we were poisoning them....

However, most are people who are not as wedded to these ideologies and I think genuinely don't get it because they can't be bothered or don't think its going to affect them/ not affect them that severely.

I differentiate between the genuine nutters, who often think Covid/the vaccine are all some big conspiracy. And those who don't get it because they're lazy/ don't think it will greatly affect them/ have a distrust of the medical establishment because of historical (and current) racial prejudices for instance.

Of course I appreciate that the hospitalised cohort may be just as unrepresentative as the FB cohort.

 

[McUnited]

Almost every single person with severe enough Covid requiring level 2/3 care (HDU/ICU) in my hospital at the moment are unvaccinated. Almost exclusively those who are dying from it are unvaccinated. The ones who do have it and are vaccinated are usually either incredibly unlucky (ie they're immunosuppressed due to other factors) or are in for other reasons but happen to be covid positive.

All of the above presents issues with cohorting patients, which in turn will have an impact on decision making for escalating patients care (or not being able to provide that care for some), hospital resources and to be totally frank, staff burnout, morale and fatigue.

I'm nowhere near as aggressive as some on here regarding the unvaccinated. I happen to think in the UK at least and across much of Europe we have an incredibly high vaccine uptake and see that as a cause to be celebrated, rather than something to head bang about for the last 10-15%. Humans are not homogenous and we never have been. To expect pretty much 100% uptake on anything is incredibly unlikely. Nor am I particularly keen to enact some of the draconian measures some seem so keen on for the unvaxxed. I'd say most who are unvaxxed now do not fall into the anti-vaxxer nutter territory and trying to exclude them totally from society is probably not the way to go.

However, it is an unfortunate fact that this tiny proportion of unvaccinated take up a hugely disproportionate amount of hospital resources at present and affect others' care. Patience is wearing thin.

In your hospital, are these unvaccinated otherwise fit and healthy individuals or do they generally have prior medical conditions?

 

[McUnited]

Hospitalised does not equal ICU admission.

Is hospitalisation not a precursor to ICU admission?

 

[africanspur]

In your hospital, are these unvaccinated otherwise fit and healthy individuals or do they generally have prior medical conditions?

Mixture. Id' say most are 40s-60s, with a smattering of people in their 30s and a few in 70s and 80s (less due to the ridiculous vaccine uptake in that age group).

Most are fit and healthy individuals. Some have diabetes or high blood pressure etc but almost nobody I have seen has been in a condition/ had conditions where I would expect them to be dying in the next year or two otherwise.

This is repeated amongst my colleagues in other hospitals.

*To clarify, because this became a particular rallying cry for the anti vaxxers/ antio lockdown people early on, that we were doing lockdowns etc to save people who were going to die soon anyway.

I do not expect a 40 year old, who's got a bit of a belly and diabetes to be dying in the next year. I don't expect him to be dying in the next decade or two either.

 

[McUnited]

Do you think so?

My experience is the opposite. Almost everybody I know who is unvaxxed is on Facebook posting memes and will go off on one about it all at the drop of a hat. The ones who were just a little unsure are now satisfied after x billion doses it's not going to kill them and have rolled their sleeve up. That's why I'm more than happy to see Europe ratcheting up the pressure on people to get the vaccine.

I don't want to sound inflammatory, but you mention that everyone you know who's unvaccinated is posting on Facebook and going on about it all at the drop of a hat etc. Is that not what you're doing, but just doing it on a football forum?

 

[P-Ro]

I doubt it. He/She does need to sleep?

Nah. Now a "New Member". Happens to most who post conspiratorial bullshit and wum in this thread. With that in mind, good day.

 

[McUnited]

Mixture. Id' say most are 40s-60s, with a smattering of people in their 30s and a few in 70s and 80s (less due to the ridiculous vaccine uptake in that age group).

Most are fit and healthy individuals. Some have diabetes or high blood pressure etc but almost nobody I have seen has been in a condition/ had conditions where I would expect them to be dying in the next year or two otherwise.

This is repeated amongst my colleagues in other hospitals.

Okay, I agree those with diabetes and high blood pressure, or any other pre-existing medical condition should have thought more carefully about getting the vaccine to protect themselves. The emphasis being on protecting themselves. But the push to vaccinate everyone, from the age of 5 upwards now it seems, is, in my opinion, incoherent.

 

[jojojo]

Almost every single person with severe enough Covid requiring level 2/3 care (HDU/ICU) in my hospital at the moment are unvaccinated. Almost exclusively those who are dying from it are unvaccinated. The ones who do have it and are vaccinated are usually either incredibly unlucky (ie they're immunosuppressed due to other factors) or are in for other reasons but happen to be covid positive.

All of the above presents issues with cohorting patients, which in turn will have an impact on decision making for escalating patients care (or not being able to provide that care for some), hospital resources and to be totally frank, staff burnout, morale and fatigue.

I'm nowhere near as aggressive as some on here regarding the unvaccinated. I happen to think in the UK at least and across much of Europe we have an incredibly high vaccine uptake and see that as a cause to be celebrated, rather than something to head bang about for the last 10-15%. Humans are not homogenous and we never have been. To expect pretty much 100% uptake on anything is incredibly unlikely. Nor am I particularly keen to enact some of the draconian measures some seem so keen on for the unvaxxed. I'd say most who are unvaxxed now do not fall into the anti-vaxxer nutter territory and trying to exclude them totally from society is probably not the way to go.

However, it is an unfortunate fact that this tiny proportion of unvaccinated take up a hugely disproportionate amount of hospital resources at present and affect others' care. Patience is wearing thin.

Thanks for this update on how things are looking from the inside. Much appreciated.

I agree with you on the compulsion question as well. For the UK in particular, I'm worried by how easily we could make rules that actually make people who are already suspicious of governments, scientists and even healthcare professionals feel even more suspicious. It's very easy to write a law that actually makes discrimination and social disadvantage worse, rather than helps to tackle the roots of why the distrust exists.

I get the frustration though, and the impatience that some of you professionals must be feeling. Plus personally of course, hypocrite that I am, I'd prefer to be sat in the vaxxed only part of the crowd and only see the vaxxed staff at the doctor's surgery.

 

[11101]

I don't want to sound inflammatory, but you mention that everyone you know who's unvaccinated is posting on Facebook and going on about it all at the drop of a hat etc. Is that not what you're doing, but just doing it on a football forum?

This is the specific Covid thread on an anonymous football forum and what I do post on here comes from legitimate medical and government sources, not Twitter or any other unverified sources like Russell Brand. I've never posted a single thing about Covid or vaccines on any of my personal social media accounts, nor do i attempt to convince those unvaccinated people i know to get vaccinated. I'm not qualified to do so.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Okay, I agree those with diabetes and high blood pressure, or any other pre-existing medical condition should have thought more carefully about getting the vaccine to protect themselves. The emphasis being on protecting themselves. But the push to vaccinate everyone, from the age of 5 upwards now it seems, is, in my opinion, incoherent.

Did you even read what he said? “Most are fit and healthy individuals. Some have diabetes, high blood pressure etc”

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Okay, I agree those with diabetes and high blood pressure, or any other pre-existing medical condition should have thought more carefully about getting the vaccine to protect themselves. The emphasis being on protecting themselves. But the push to vaccinate everyone, from the age of 5 upwards now it seems, is, in my opinion, incoherent.

You may not agree with the vaccination of all but it is surely not an incoherent policy? The reason why is surely clear and comprehendible?

 

[africanspur]

Is hospitalisation not a precursor to ICU admission?

No? Unless you're talking in the most literal sense, whereby you must first present to hospital in some capacity before you're admitted to the intensive care unit, in which case obviously.

It goes without saying though that there is a big difference in clinical severity between someone who doesn't get Covid, someone who gets it and is asymptomatic, someone who gets it and is has the sniffles, someone who gets it and is wiped out for a few days, someone who gets it and needs Oxygen in the hospital, someone who gets it and needs a face mask and CPAP and someone who gets it and needs to be intubated and ventilated in the ICU.

Obviously most people with Covid will not reach the final stage. Even most people who are in the hospital will not reach the final stage. Seeing as the vaccines' most important job is to protect against severe disease (an ICU stay, even if you survive it, is traumatic and horrible) and death, with secondary impacts on reducing transmission as a whole and reducing mild symptomatic disease, then looking at ICU figures as opposed to general hospital figures is quite important. And there, the unvaxxed certainly rule.

The other reason the general hospital admission criteria is more difficult to interpret is because as I said, some patients are in with something else, vaccinated and happen to have Covid picked up incidentally. Which means they'll sit on a cohorted Covid ward with no respiratory symptoms at all, being treated for their stroke, heart attack or IBD flare or whatever. They share this ward with other Covid patients who are recovering from their HDU/ICU stay but no longer need such high intensity of care or those who are still in the early stages of disease and could go either way.

They are all counted as hospital admissions with Covid. Realistically though, if you're going to the ICU and you have Covid, its almost never just an incidental finding.

 

[africanspur]

Thanks for this update on how things are looking from the inside. Much appreciated.

I agree with you on the compulsion question as well. For the UK in particular, I'm worried by how easily we could make rules that actually make people who are already suspicious of governments, scientists and even healthcare professionals feel even more suspicious. It's very easy to write a law that actually makes discrimination and social disadvantage worse, rather than helps to tackle the roots of why the distrust exists.

I get the frustration though, and the impatience that some of you professionals must be feeling. Plus personally of course, hypocrite that I am, I'd prefer to be sat in the vaxxed only part of the crowd and only see the vaxxed staff at the doctor's surgery.

No worries and thanks so much for your constant updates on this thread, undoubtedly one of the most informative series of posts on any topic on this forum. I can't post as much anymore for probably obvious reasons/ follow all the news as thoroughly but I do still read a lot of what you post and its very much appreciated.

Totally agree about making things worse but also totally agree re the hypocrisy. I'm not particularly enthused about being around unvaxxed people/ unmasked people in large groups eithr. And some of these patients genuinely infuriate me.

 

[Wibble]

pfizer and other such companies have admitted saying in their own documents, referring to their vaccines as “experimental”. If that makes me a tinfoil then it makes them also. There’s a reason why they’re not FDA approved and still being used under the label of emergency use.

It is fully approved all over the world and was only every "emergency" approved to speed delivery up in the US because there was a pandemic. No corners were cut. It has been delivered many millions of time now which confirms how safe it is.

it’s voluntary but if you don’t take it, then you can’t live your life. Gotcha.

Nobody has total freedom. Don't get a driving licence and you can't drive. Don't get a working with children check and you can't work with kids in case you are a kidding fiddler. Etc.

You have choice in all case but there are consequences to choices.

Test. That would suffice actually with covid. I whole heartedly agree. As was the case only a few months back. I hope you realize how ridiculous this sounds. Implement the same thing you’re saying with flu shot in the past. Imagine if that was mandatory. If it wasn’t necessary then, it shouldn’t be for this either. For moral/ethical reasons. https://nationalpost-com.cdn.amppro.../wcm/c4659b2a-31ad-453c-a070-0331eea0cfc8/amp

All major vaccinations should be compulsory or rather there should be a consequence for not being vaccinated. We have a Medicare levy in addition to income tax. I'd add 1% for incompletely vaccinated people.

I can list a handful of places who’s data shows more vaccinated were hospitalized than unvaccinated and also vice versa.

And I can guarantee the data either doesn't mean what you think it does or is just rubbish.

People didn’t sign up for such a thing.

Yes they did. At the last election.

You can’t retroactively implement stuff like this and pretend people were told to abide by this all along. It was never the case before for a reason. Because of morals/ethics. Which has been breached.

Retroactively? nobody is being asked to be vaccinated in the past.

One can quite easily argue “fat unfit” people are the ones using up tax dollars when they have complications down the line and require treatment. Point being, they’re still not denied service or demonized as those unvaccinated to covid are right now. As a society, you can’t just pick and choose who and who not to accept. That’s immoral and being made up on the fly.

Fat people cost tax dollars but they aren't potentially collapsing our health system in real time and they aren't infecting, harming and killing others.

Who are we to force upon others. Yes we may recommend and propose options but always with a choice which is ultimately up to said person.

You have a choice. You just don't want there to be consequences of that choice.

I don’t regularly take flu shots because I’m confident in my well being as of recent.

Again a silly choice and statement. Flu vaccines benefit those with great immune systems.

When I was unwell 4 odd years ago with terminal illness, I took the flu shot in the best interest of myself knowing my body was definitely vulnerable. I just spoke to my specialist at the hospital this Monday for my annual checkup and thankfully, she doesn’t demonize others/me like some people out there do to others. We can carry out a normal conversation and respect one another. Since my checkups happen in December, I spoke to her December of 2019 and mentioned covid to her then. I was aware of it having followed independent journalists that were mentioning it since October of that year and was concerned for my well-being, being someone who was previously “compromised” (despite being recovered now). I said doc, have you heard about this virus. She said very generally she’s been following with her other colleagues. I said I know it’s absurd to ask but what do you predict will come of it? She said don’t quote me on it (which funny enough I’m doing right now), “but I think they’ll develop a seasonal shot for it like the flu”. Turns out, she was bang on and we still talk about it. She respects my opinions and doesn’t think of me as some numpty or “tin foil”. In fact, I show up with published papers to pick her brain and she teaches me quite a bit. Regarding the morals/ethics, she full on agrees with me and said just this week it’s scary that there’s no knowing where this will lead to and herself referenced places like Australia/Germany/Austria.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

this whole labelling of tin-foil hat for anyone that doesn’t see eye-to-eye with your beliefs, just know that it (hesitancy/concerns/questions/tin foil/whatever you want to call it) stems from the medical community itself. And that’s how it leaks out to populations. This may be news to you or others but let me tell you, not all scientists/doctors/researchers/regulators agree across the board. They are the ones who question and raise concerns among their own fields and it’s always been the case. Just because what people are seeing (very 1-sided) on mainstream media doesn’t mean the other ‘side’ doesn’t exist. Because it surely does. It for whatever reason doesn’t get the coverage thus most people think, ‘the science is unanimous’, when it’s far from it. So when you jump the gun to throw labels around to people who are being respectful, not idiots, and have concerns or their own reasons (whatever it may be, definitely not anyone’s business other than the person themself…like how it was in the past and common decency not to invade in others personal and private medical history) not to do a certain thing that you or others have, just know that you’re also labelling the same to a portion of the medical community who initiate these discussions…..no offence taken, in fact thank you for your time. I just wanted to make that clear and hope you enjoy your day

You speak in the language of conspiracy theory/antivaxx loons. Mainstream media? Thank goodness Steve on YouTube has revealed the truth. I for one am not at all concerned that his qualifications are mainly in the field of working on the till at McDonald's. Nothing you say is supportable, rational or sourced from a consensus of actual.scientific experts.

 

[decorativeed]

Are you aware that 25% of those who contract covid while unvaccinated end up with Zero natural immunity?

You mention the vaccines giving marginal protection. Marginal is just completely false.

Where exactly are you getting all your information from?

The youtube channel of guy who pranked Manuel from Fawlty Towers, of course! Why trust scientists when you can trust the former presenter of Big Brother's Big Mouth?

 

[McUnited]

This is the specific Covid thread on an anonymous football forum and what I do post on here comes from legitimate medical and government sources, not Twitter or any other unverified sources like Russell Brand. I've never posted a single thing about Covid or vaccines on any of my personal social media accounts, nor do i attempt to convince those unvaccinated people i know to get vaccinated. I'm not qualified to do so.

Why is Russell Brand unverified? Unverified by whom?

 

[McUnited]

You may not agree with the vaccination of all but it is surely not an incoherent policy? The reason why is surely clear and comprehendible?

It is comprehensible and clear, but it is, to me, incoherent.

 

[Solius]

Almost as if there's some correlation.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Crazy situation in London right now. Covid not replacing delta (yet). They’re both surging simultaneously. For the next few weeks it could theoretically be possible to catch the delta variant, then catch omicron straight after. This didn’t happen in SA because their delta wave was basically finished by the time omicron started spreading.

 

[Pexbo]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Crazy situation in London right now. Covid not replacing delta (yet). They’re both surging simultaneously. For the next few weeks it could theoretically be possible to catch the delta variant, then catch omicron straight after. This didn’t happen in SA because their delta wave was basically finished by the time omicron started spreading.

Is it theoretically possible to have viral overload from both strains simultaneously? That sounds particularly shit.

 

[SilentWitness]

The test and trace app / form they get you to fill in is confusing. I entered my positive test result and it tells me to isolate until the 23rd December, 10 days after I receive my test result (the 13th). They then send me a form to fill in so I can let them contact anyone I may have been around during the days leading up to my positive test so I do. Part of that process is putting in when you started to get symptoms (the 12th) so after I complete the form it’s telling me that I only have to isolate until the 22nd, 10 days after I first started getting symptoms. The app still shows my isolation from my positive test though (the 23rd). I’m going to isolate until the 23rd anyway but it’s confusing that they link the two items but they don’t actually link up in terms of the programming.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Is it theoretically possible to have viral overload from both strains simultaneously? That sounds particularly shit.

I read a case report of someone being infected with two variants at once. I don’t think that necessarily means more severe disease though. I also think the one two punch I mentioned above would end up in a fairly mild second illness. Still a bit shit, I’m sure.

EDIT:Found it.

 

[horsechoker]

Do you think so?

My experience is the opposite. Almost everybody I know who is unvaxxed is on Facebook posting memes and will go off on one about it all at the drop of a hat. The ones who were just a little unsure are now satisfied after x billion doses it's not going to kill them and have rolled their sleeve up. That's why I'm more than happy to see Europe ratcheting up the pressure on people to get the vaccine.

People need to stop going on Facebook it's gone to the dogs

 

[Tom Cato]

Okay, I agree those with diabetes and high blood pressure, or any other pre-existing medical condition should have thought more carefully about getting the vaccine to protect themselves. The emphasis being on protecting themselves. But the push to vaccinate everyone, from the age of 5 upwards now it seems, is, in my opinion, incoherent.

Its not only about that, at all.

Thorough studies have documented the risk of spread of the Delta variant from vaccinated people become reduced by around 63% vs unvaccinated people. But here's the kicker: The actual percentage is way higher, since vaccinated people become infected at a significantly lower percentile than unvaccinated people.

The emphasis on the vaccination program is to protect both yourself, but by proxy others because of the cascade effect it has on your contagious potential.

But more importantly, the people telling us to get vaccinated are the people who work in the medical sector. Why are there any good reasons to pretend we don't have to listen to them when they tell us why this is helpful? Do you offer tips to the airplane pilot when there's turbulence or do you assume the pilot know what he's doing? Why isnt the same luxury being afforded to the nations health officials when they give instructions?

 

[Beachryan]

Do you offer tips to the airplane pilot when there's turbulence or do you assume the pilot know what he's doing? Why isnt the same luxury being afforded to the nations health officials when they give instructions?

Firstly, you're doing great work on this the thread, I wish I had your patience.

Secondly, if the last 5 years have taught me anything its that there is a large swathe of the population who very much believe they're just as entitled to their opinion on operating an airplane as a trained pilot, and would more than willingly share that opinion.

The societal loss of shame and rise of entitled ignorance is the real underpinning theme of our times.

 

[Beachryan]

I would venture to say that means your body is very clued in on what the virus is and this means you are at a much lower risk of negative outcomes if you happen to become infected.

Thats something, thanks! As omicron has arrived on our shores I'm sure it'll be put to the test!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Its not only about that, at all.

Thorough studies have documented the risk of spread of the Delta variant from vaccinated people become reduced by around 63% vs unvaccinated people. But here's the kicker: The actual percentage is way higher, since vaccinated people become infected at a significantly lower percentile than unvaccinated people.

The emphasis on the vaccination program is to protect both yourself, but by proxy others because of the cascade effect it has on your contagious potential.

But more importantly, the people telling us to get vaccinated are the people who work in the medical sector. Why are there any good reasons to pretend we don't have to listen to them when they tell us why this is helpful? Do you offer tips to the airplane pilot when there's turbulence or do you assume the pilot know what he's doing? Why isnt the same luxury being afforded to the nations health officials when they give instructions?

The way that these new variants have eroded the efficacy of vaccines at presenting transmission has moved the goalposts a bit. You could certainly argue that the emphasis now is vaccination to protect the individual, rather than for the greater good.

However, that argument ignores another important consequence of choosing not to get vaccinated. When individuals get unnecessarily much sicker than they would otherwise they take away healthcare resources from everyone else. From here on in it will be ITU occupation that dictates how normal a life everybody can live. And the more people who choose not to get vaccinated the more ITU beds will be occupied with covid patients.

 

[mitChley]

Almost as if there's some correlation.

I imagine it'll be wealth, type of jobs (ability to WFH for example), as well as education and many more.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Fascinating. Potential explanation for combination of increased transmissibility and less severe illness.

 

[Ixion]

Almost as if there's some correlation.

Age of voters.

 

[Tom Cato]

pfizer and other such companies have admitted saying in their own documents, referring to their vaccines as “experimental”. If that makes me a tinfoil then it makes them also. There’s a reason why they’re not FDA approved and still being used under the label of emergency use. But again if you want to title me as something, I’m not stopping you.

You posted a lot of text but I'm trying to do some work today so Ill just write a quick comment to this snippet since its a easy one to answer for you.

I know that the "anti-vaccine" lobby in the US in particular harps a lot on the word "experimental/emergency". Its a bit like when creationists harp on the word "theory" when discussing science. Its just words. You need to know what they refer to before you can form an opinion that is a correct opinion.

When refering to the Covid-19 vaccines as "experimental", that is not what that actually means. There is nothing experimental about them. The SARS CoV-2 vaccinations are the most heavily tested vaccines in human history. The sheer scale of the effort undergone by the global medical community to achieve a working vaccine in the timescale it did is nothing sort of remarkable and rank high in humanitys top achievements.

The US FDA approved the covid-19 vaccines under a EUA authorization at the beginning of the pandemic due to the severity and emergency status of the pandemic. For a vaccine to be granted a EUA there needs to be well documented safety data that meets a long list of thresholds. In short: The vaccine is deemed safe for humans.

The process to be granted full FDA approval is a bit more complex but it involves more formal proceedings such as a New Drug Application (NDA) and the careful monitoring of the FDA MedWatch program that among other things monitor the VAERS.

When granted a emergency approval the vaccine will already need to have undergone all clinical study steps that are associated with a full development cycle. The word "emergency" in this case is bureaucratic talk for "This meets the criteria now hurry up".

The vaccines are not experimental. They certainly were when they were being developed, that is what hte clinical trial stages are for.

The FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine for ful FDA approval in August of 2021. It has since received full FDA approval in younger children and teenagers in October of 2021.

Now that the information you have thought was correct has received an update, will you change your opinion?

To date more than 8.5 billion covid-19 shots have been administered globally. Will 9 billion doses be enough of a sample size to form a opinion regarding vaccine safety?

 

[FrankDrebin]

PCR Test results taking longer than usual.

 

[McUnited]

You posted a lot of text but I'm trying to do some work today so Ill just write a quick comment to this snippet since its a easy one to answer for you.

I know that the "anti-vaccine" lobby in the US in particular harps a lot on the word "experimental/emergency". Its a bit like when creationists harp on the word "theory" when discussing science. Its just words. You need to know what they refer to before you can form an opinion that is a correct opinion.

When refering to the Covid-19 vaccines as "experimental", that is not what that actually means. There is nothing experimental about them. The SARS CoV-2 vaccinations are the most heavily tested vaccines in human history. The sheer scale of the effort undergone by the global medical community to achieve a working vaccine in the timescale it did is nothing sort of remarkable and rank high in humanitys top achievements.

The US FDA approved the covid-19 vaccines under a EUA authorization at the beginning of the pandemic due to the severity and emergency status of the pandemic. For a vaccine to be granted a EUA there needs to be well documented safety data that meets a long list of thresholds. In short: The vaccine is deemed safe for humans.

The process to be granted full FDA approval is a bit more complex but it involves more formal proceedings such as a New Drug Application (NDA) and the careful monitoring of the FDA MedWatch program that among other things monitor the VAERS.

When granted a emergency approval the vaccine will already need to have undergone all clinical study steps that are associated with a full development cycle. The word "emergency" in this case is bureaucratic talk for "This meets the criteria now hurry up".

The vaccines are not experimental. They certainly were when they were being developed, that is what hte clinical trial stages are for.

The FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine for ful FDA approval in August of 2021. It has since received full FDA approval in younger children and teenagers in October of 2021.

Now that the information you have thought was correct has received an update, will you change your opinion?

To date more than 8.5 billion covid-19 shots have been administered globally. Will 9 billion doses be enough of a sample size to form a opinion regarding vaccine safety?

No it wouldn't, because some people are concerned about the long-term effects.

 

[b82REZ]

No it wouldn't, because some people are concerned about the long-term effects.

 

[Carolina Red]

No it wouldn't, because some people are concerned about the long-term effects.

What vaccines in history have had those?

 

[Solius]

No it wouldn't, because some people are concerned about the long-term effects.

How long is acceptable to wait for 'long-term effects'?

I'm a bit concerned the long term effect of birth is death but I'm waiting for results on that one.

 

[Carolina Red]

How long is acceptable to wait for 'long-term effects'?

I'm a bit concerned the long term effect of birth is death but I'm waiting for results on that one.

 

[Massive Spanner]

All it takes is one and then they all come flocking out. It's like the brexit thread all over again.

 

[11101]

Why is Russell Brand unverified? Unverified by whom?

I'm not sure how to answer this question. Surely you are joking?

 

[Volumiza]

How long is acceptable to wait for 'long-term effects'?

I'm a bit concerned the long term effect of birth is death but I'm waiting for results on that one.