Regulus Arcturus Black
Full Member
No I didn’t, you need to re-check my post as I pressed publish before I was finished.just glossing over the fact you completely misrepresented the data then?
No I didn’t, you need to re-check my post as I pressed publish before I was finished.just glossing over the fact you completely misrepresented the data then?
28% over here die. I know the exact number yes.You know that that it's still the case that most people admitted to a critical care unit with covid will die, don't you?
So that was in March, with an assumed peak in May. When the figures were assessed for May, the results were...“we assume that 50% of those in critical care will die”… kin ell.
It’s worse than I thought.
The chart actually suggests that the epidemic would be over after those 500,000 deaths so yes it is saying by spring 2020, and that somehow magically that’d be the end of it. I guess they’re making the same stupid mistake that Pogue just touched upon as the Swedish experts and thinking herd immunity would kick in and rid us of it.
That's a pretty good prediction from limited information, all in all. Maybe you misunderstood it?The COVID-19 pandemic continues to cause critical illness and deaths internationally. Up to 31 May 2020, mortality in patients admitted to intensive care units (ICU) with COVID-19 was 41.6%.
The graph clearly predicts that 510,000 will have died by summer 2020 in the UK and with that would be the end of the epidemic. Assuming they completely ignore seasonal aspects of upper respiratory viruses, and there an assume that transmission will just keep growing exponentially until the entire country has it, which we now know doesn’t actually happen .How bout that
Not sure which I had, my symptoms were mainly fatigue and headache lasted about 5 days. No cough or temperatureSo has anyone in here had Omicron and if so, how were your symptoms?
Wow, what a tough guy!I think I might have just had Omicron yesterday, probably started the day before. Yesterday I felt tired and I had that body ache feeling you get whilst you are recovering after a cold. The one where you keep wanting to stretch like a cat? Today I feel back to normal. If I just felt tired yesterday I wouldn't even mention it but it's the combination of feeling tired and the body ache feeling along with the rapid spread throughout the world. So, it's definitely possible right? Mild is an understatement. I am 42, a smoker and unvaccinated. I'm just wondering why so many people are scared to death of Omicron? I've never been scared of this Covid at any point, but I can understand why some were scared at the beginning, assuming it was much more deadly. Why now though? Omicron is much milder and you've all been jabbed up to the eyeballs. Why are you still scared? Makes no sense to me!
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
As you can see they ran simulations until December 2021, they assumed that there would be multiple waves as a result of mitigation measures, and they did not assume the pandemic would end by the end of 2021.The graph clearly predicts that 510,000 will have died by summer 2020 in the UK and with that would be the end of the epidemic. Assuming they completely ignore seasonal aspects of upper respiratory viruses, and there an assume that transmission will just keep growing exponentially until the entire country has it, which we now know doesn’t actually happen .
Fair point, I was only looking at the current mortality rate so yeah, I’m off there, but almost 10% is not insignificant, it’s certainly another worst worst case scenario prediction.So that was in March, with an assumed peak in May. When the figures were assessed for May, the results were...
https://associationofanaesthetists-publications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/anae.15425
That's a pretty good prediction from limited information, all in all. Maybe you misunderstood it?
So Sweden have double Irelands population and have less cases per day and less people in ICU. Is Ireland just doing really badly or are Sweden doing something right?The same stuff the Swedish experts were smoking who predicted herd immunity would end the pandemic long before now? Meanwhile, in Sweden…
Or perhaps making those sort of long term predictions is incredibly difficult and even scientists who understand this stuff way better than any of us have always found it hard to accurately predict the future of the pandemic?
I’m pretty sure it’s not seasonal. The problem in Ireland is that our health system gets overwhelmed in winter every year even without Covid so any surge in cases was always likely to be a big issue. This idea that once we opened we opened for good always seemed like pure fantasy to me as a result, especially as our main easing of restrictions came at the same time as schools going back and sending people back to the offices. I said at the time it was madness (and got shot down in here) and that we should have opened much earlier in the summer and I think it’s obvious now that should have happened. Our Tanaiste said himself we can’t deny people a summer again this year with a prolonged lockdown so hopefully they’ve learnt their lessonThat summer long lockdown you had when it was crystal clear (I argued this at the time and was once again shot down from all sides) this thing was seasonal was a massive feck up to the tune of billions that should have been spent on the health service and not least by giving all healthcare workers a massive “pandemic pay rise”.
It amazes me that we’re where we are now and so many are giving their governments a free card for ridiculously expensive short term thinking like this.
We socialize VERY well.So Sweden have double Irelands population and have less cases per day and less people in ICU. Is Ireland just doing really badly or are Sweden doing something right?
Bit of a disaster if that trend continues.Growth in case rates in London. Delta was mostly leveling off, with wobbles and a slight rise in some age groups as party season started. Then Omicron arrives and rather than displacing Delta is good and sits on top of it.
They are making decisions to protect the healthcare system. Hope this helps.Pubs, cinemas and restaurants are closed at 8pm now in Ireland. Feels like we've been in constant restrictions for 2 years now and everybody is fed up. One of the most vaccinated countries in the world yet we're also one of the most restricted with our government making absolutely shambolic decisions that make very little sense.
Fair enough, it’s easy to get in a spin with all of this. Prolonged lockdowns and feck all extra pay for doctors and nurses has been my biggest gripe all along, hence the frustration.I’m pretty sure it’s not seasonal. The problem in Ireland is that our health system gets overwhelmed in winter every year even without Covid so any surge in cases was always likely to be a big issue. This idea that once we opened we opened for good always seemed like pure fantasy to me as a result, especially as our main easing of restrictions came at the same time as schools going back and sending people back to the offices. I said at the time it was madness (and got shot down in here) and that we should have opened much earlier in the summer and I think it’s obvious now that should have happened. Our Tanaiste said himself we can’t deny people a summer again this year with a prolonged lockdown so hopefully they’ve learnt their lesson
I will say we weren’t locked down over summer though and that’s a total exaggeration, to be fair. We could move around freely, visit people and there was outdoor dining, not great but luckily we got a good summer weather wise.
Nobody knows. The more interesting/relevant comparison is between Sweden and its immediate neighbours anyway. Ireland is so enmeshed with the Uk/EU it’s almost impossible to judge our own approach in isolation.So Sweden have double Irelands population and have less cases per day and less people in ICU. Is Ireland just doing really badly or are Sweden doing something right?
Which can’t be underestimated in fairness.We socialize VERY well.
It’s really not though as we’ve argued all along. No more so than comparing Germany with Denmark.Nobody knows. The more interesting/relevant comparison is between Sweden and its immediate neighbours anyway.
Presume it’s way to early to infer anything from that though.Bit of a disaster if that trend continues.
You'd think they'd close schools and not let the walking petri dishes bring covid home instead of closing cinemas at 8pm. Closing pubs means more house parties over Christmas too and a pub with only table service is less of a risk than a unregulated house party than can go all night. I'm all for helping the health care system but these restrictions make so little sense.They are making decisions to protect the healthcare system. Hope this helps.
Education is always going to be prioritised. I agree that in an ideal world from a virus point of view schools shouldn’t have been open at all since March 2020. Our little man made systems wouldn’t allow that though.You'd think they'd close schools and not let the walking petri dishes bring covid home instead of closing cinemas at 8pm. Closing pubs means more house parties over Christmas too and a pub with only table service is less of a risk than a unregulated house party than can go all night. I'm all for helping the health care system but these restrictions make so little sense.
Some suggesting now but impossible to enforce. Even the one after Christmas, I can't see as many people following compared to last year without knowing there is an out at the end of this and it won't be extended or come back in a few monthsA lot of media reports about a 2 week circuit breaker after Xmas
People are less bunched together in big townsSo Sweden have double Irelands population and have less cases per day and less people in ICU. Is Ireland just doing really badly or are Sweden doing something right?
Yeah, exactly. One of the many really important unknowns if whether omicron takes off like crazy because it’s much more transmissible than delta (so will eventually displace it) or purely because it is able to blitz through a population that has some immunity to delta but no protection against omicron. In which case you have two viruses operating in parallel and catching one won’t stop you catching the other.Presume it’s way to early to infer anything from that though.
This is what I questioned a week or so ago though; if Alpha/Delta/Vaccines provide diminished protection against Omicron, then the worry has got to be that Omicron provides little protection against Alpha/Delta.
In which case it doesn’t really matter if Omicron is less severe if Delta can still operate in parallel and it’s not a case of Omicron’s lower mortality rate replacing delta’s rather Omicron’s mortality rate in addition to deltas.
In which case the SARS-COV-3 thing you mentioned feels particularly relevant and particularly shit.
Thanks for the explanation. Does it mean even if someone is getting the 2nd jab now they will be decently protected as opposed to if they had half a year back.The third dose triggers your body to make a fresh batch of antibodies. They'll hang around for a few months, and should be able to kill off attempted new infections quickly - ideally before the virus gets chance to spread.
The fact it's the third time your body has seen this infection annoys it, so it makes more antibodies and a broader cocktail of them. The immune system memory (the scientists study these T and B cells as well) gets triggered at the same time and prepares to make new recipes for the next time it happens.
The vaccine trained your body to be ready for the Wuhan virus, it's now got a head start to attack the variants. It was good at stopping Alpha and Delta after two doses, the third made it excellent again.
Now Omicron has shown up. We're expecting the freshly topped up circulating antibody mix to do a good job at stopping it and the memory cells to do an even better one at concocting new recipes to get rid of it before it gets severe.
Dose 2 was the, "I've told you before, just clear off" jab. What we hope dose 3 does is add the phrase, "and take your scummy mates with you."
With apologies to any doctors, virologists and immunologists etc who stumble across this...
Delta has been rather stable for a while in UK, so boosters already will bring it down a bit, and there will be some restrictions and behaviour changes which will further have an impact. And I don’t think there is much reason to think that omicron infection would have exactly zero immunity against delta.Presume it’s way to early to infer anything from that though.
This is what I questioned a week or so ago though; if Alpha/Delta/Vaccines provide diminished protection against Omicron, then the worry has got to be that Omicron provides little protection against Alpha/Delta.
In which case it doesn’t really matter if Omicron is less severe if Delta can still operate in parallel and it’s not a case of Omicron’s lower mortality rate replacing delta’s rather Omicron’s mortality rate in addition to deltas.
In which case the SARS-COV-3 thing you mentioned feels particularly relevant and particularly shit.
I don’t think anyone said “exactly zero”?Delta has been rather stable for a while in UK, so boosters already will bring it down a bit, and there will be some restrictions and behaviour changes which will further have an impact. And I don’t think there is much reason to think that omicron infection would have exactly zero immunity against delta.
No. I didn't imply so either. But as close to equilibrium as UK is then even a little bit immunity will be helpful.I don’t think anyone said “exactly zero”?
Bit harsh on @PexboWhy are you guys still talking with the village idiot? You know he's dumb. You know he is wrong about most things. You know he will be boring and tedious. You know he will move the goal posts. Where is the upside in talking with him?
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I don’t think there are many governments that are interested in solving these problems. They’re interested in capitalising on them.How much do we expect world leaders to solve the actual cause of all these lockdowns and invest in healthcare and capacity once this is all under control.
My guess would be nothing and we will forget about it and whenever the next arrives the same problem.
operating in a society where the hospital capacity is already at 90% full isn’t the way.
Oh youBit harsh on @Pexbo
I agree. Cutting back so we’re on the limit each winter to save dosh is ludicrous. We’ve been given a stark reminder that health and economy are linked. However, I don’t see any capacity that can cope with the numbers omicron is throwing up. An R of 7 with mitigations already in place - if the populace had zero prior immunity and this thing had the same hospitalisation rate as delta - how can you possibly cope with that? You’re talking the entire population being ill over a 6 week period…How much do we expect world leaders to solve the actual cause of all these lockdowns and invest in healthcare and capacity once this is all under control.
My guess would be nothing and we will forget about it and whenever the next arrives the same problem.
operating in a society where the hospital capacity is already at 90% full isn’t the way.
did you not see the part where I said hospital admissions haven’t gone up? In months?Because logically the more it spreads the more will end up hospitalised. In a health service which is already straining
Land mass 450km v 84km, so less crowded maybe?So Sweden have double Irelands population and have less cases per day and less people in ICU. Is Ireland just doing really badly or are Sweden doing something right?