SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[RedDevilQuebecois]

I'm reading the news about China complaining about anti-COVID curbs imposed by a number of countries (US, UK, Australia, India, Japan, Canada, Italy, Spain, Malaysia, Taiwan, South Korea, Morocco, Qatar) upon travellers from China. I swear it's pathetic for Beijing to complain when they already have fecked up so badly after going from an extreme to another with zero methodical approach.

I think with the USA we have trusted data. Whereas with China the data they give seems to put image first. If the numbers numbers in the USA came close to what was speculated to be the case in China I would want the same applied to US flights. If this US variant turns out to be more dangerous or vaccine immune then i would want the same also.

This. It is outright pathetic that China cares about their image while people are dying because of reckless negligence.

China was given a chance (3 years) to be as scientifically transparent as possible about the origins of COVID-19, given a chance to buy the best vaccines on the market, given a chance to learn from others on how to reopen as safely as possible, and THEY BLEW IT! They blew it, and it's about time they get told the part in the face.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

We talk about protecting people in the midst of a serious health crisis, and they have the nerve to behave like a petulant child?

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Don't they (the Chinese government) have any shame? This is the reality on the ground and it is what it is. Wake the feck up, fecking children.

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[AlPistacho]

We talk about protecting people in the midst of a serious health crisis, and they have the nerve to behave like a petulant child?

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Don't they (the Chinese government) have any shame? This is the reality on the ground and it is what it is. Wake the feck up, fecking children.

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Since the outbreak I’ve thought the government of China’s response has been needlessly childish & petty. It’s not s competition, it’s not a shame or source of pride, it’s just a global catastrophe that requires nations to share information, be honest, and occasionally take proactive measures.

Even the way China just took its foot off the breaks and abandoned covid zero seemed to be more about punishing protestors. (Bordering tin pot so I’ll delete if asked to) but to me it defies belief that they didn’t know that cases would sky rocket, we’ve all seen that gradual easing is the best way to go from lockdown to normal.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Since the outbreak I’ve thought the government of China’s response has been needlessly childish & petty. It’s not s competition, it’s not a shame or source of pride, it’s just a global catastrophe that requires nations to share information, be honest, and occasionally take proactive measures.

Even the way China just took its foot off the breaks and abandoned covid zero seemed to be more about punishing protestors. (Bordering tin pot so I’ll delete if asked to) but to me it defies belief that they didn’t know that cases would sky rocket, we’ve all seen that gradual easing is the best way to go from lockdown to normal.

Basic sense of humanity and/or oaths of service (if there is such in the Chinese government) demand that this issue is treated with no bullshit (sharing information, being honest, be proactive, etc.) indeed. I just don't understand how any government can even air grievances at a time when millions of their constituents are suffering at the moment.

I also hope to not go near tin foil hat territory regarding the decision to go from an extreme to another by the Chinese government either, but I can't do otherwise to ask "What if?". Whoever works in public health or the equivalent of the NIH in China cannot be anything but mad at their government's lack of basic logic so far. It looks like as if the country has a bunch of Donald Trumps at the very top, with no guardrails against total idiocy and pettiness (of which it has become a common theme with the CCP in the last 5-6 years).

By the way, this is South Korea's response to the petty sanctions.

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[AlPistacho]

Basic sense of humanity and/or oaths of service (if there is such in the Chinese government) demand that this issue is treated with no bullshit (sharing information, being honest, be proactive, etc.) indeed. I just don't understand how any government can even air grievances at a time when millions of their constituents are suffering at the moment.

I also hope to not go near tin foil hat territory regarding the decision to go from an extreme to another by the Chinese government either, but I can't do otherwise to ask "What if?". Whoever works in public health or the equivalent of the NIH in China cannot be anything but mad at their government's lack of basic logic so far. It looks like as if the country has a bunch of Donald Trumps at the very top, with no guardrails against total idiocy and pettiness (of which it has become a common theme with the CCP in the last 5-6 years).

By the way, this is South Korea's response to the petty sanctions.

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Interesting read. It’s not discriminatory. If 80% of infections in the U.K. were coming from flights arriving from France, we’d (I’d hope) Red list France. Like the South Korean official said these tests are for everyone arriving on flights from China.

Also hate to bring it up. But Chinese New Year is on Jan 22/23. They really should have waited until after that had passed. In unrestricted travel times it usually sees millions of people travelling out of China in a very short space of time.

After being in self isolation for just under 3 years you’d expect a government to test the waters. Open up its society in stages, then next year make travel unrestricted.

 

[calodo2003]

Read somewhere that 97% of airline flights in SE Asia had Covid in the wastewater of the planes.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Read somewhere that 97% of airline flights in SE Asia had Covid in the wastewater of the planes.

You're probably referring to Forbes.

And just as AlPistacho mentioned, the Lunar New Year is coming around the corner. It is the perfect excuse for a lot of travelling in and out of China, and it is ill-advised in the current context. The first COVID outbreak started the same way as well because no one had the balls to cut the holidays short, even when there were too many unknowns to go business as usual.

I also read this 5-day-old article from the BBC. I don't know if I should either be S(hake)M(y)F(ucking)H(ead), F(uck)M(y)L(ife), or both when I read the part about what some younger Chinese people are doing. Of course I didn't like a number of restrictions on gatherings and parties here in Canada, but I was never foolish enough to be willing to get sick on purpose just as in the following quotes from the article.

But younger Chinese, all of whom did not wish to be named, feel differently - and some told the BBC they were voluntarily exposing themselves to infection.

A 27-year-old coder in Shanghai, who did not receive any of the Chinese vaccines, says he voluntarily exposed himself to the virus.

"Because I don't want to change my holiday plan," he explains, "and I could make sure I recovered and won't be infected again during the holiday if I intentionally control the time I get infected." He admits he did not expect the muscle aches that came with the infection, but says the symptoms have been largely as expected.

Another Shanghai resident, a 26-year-old woman, tells the BBC she visited her friend who had tested positive "so I could get Covid as well".

But she says her recovery has been hard: "I thought it would be like getting a cold but it was much more painful."

If it wasn't for my share of vaccines, I would have been a much bigger mess than what I was when I had COVID back in early December. That virus is never something I wish on anybody.

 

[calodo2003]

You're probably referring to Forbes.

And just as AlPistacho mentioned, the Lunar New Year is coming around the corner. It is the perfect excuse for a lot of travelling in and out of China, and it is ill-advised in the current context. The first COVID outbreak started the same way as well because no one had the balls to cut the holidays short, even when there were too many unknowns to go business as usual.

I also read this 5-day-old article from the BBC. I don't know if I should either be S(hake)M(y)F(ucking)H(ead), F(uck)M(y)L(ife), or both when I read the part about what some younger Chinese people are doing. Of course I didn't like a number of restrictions on gatherings and parties here in Canada, but I was never foolish enough to be willing to get sick on purpose just as in the following quotes from the article.



If it wasn't for my share of vaccines, I would have been a much bigger mess than what I was when I had COVID back in early December. That virus is never something I wish on anybody.

That’s the article. Shocking numbers.

 

[AlPistacho]

You're probably referring to Forbes.

And just as AlPistacho mentioned, the Lunar New Year is coming around the corner. It is the perfect excuse for a lot of travelling in and out of China, and it is ill-advised in the current context. The first COVID outbreak started the same way as well because no one had the balls to cut the holidays short, even when there were too many unknowns to go business as usual.

I also read this 5-day-old article from the BBC. I don't know if I should either be S(hake)M(y)F(ucking)H(ead), F(uck)M(y)L(ife), or both when I read the part about what some younger Chinese people are doing. Of course I didn't like a number of restrictions on gatherings and parties here in Canada, but I was never foolish enough to be willing to get sick on purpose just as in the following quotes from the article.



If it wasn't for my share of vaccines, I would have been a much bigger mess than what I was when I had COVID back in early December. That virus is never something I wish on anybody.

That thing about people getting intentionally infected is shocking. I heard the same about people in the USA, similar age group, having “covid parties” think their motives were different. Either way both just scream stupidity. It’s not even about themselves what about when they pass it on to others who might not get through.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Finally caught Covid. Had to happen at some point I guess, but doesn’t change the fact that it’s absolutely horrible. Triple jabbed, but the last one was a long time ago.

Had a really bad flu before Christmas, but this does seem different. Either feel freezing or boiling, coughing up surreal amounts of yucky stuff, and completely knackered.

All in all it’s been a winter full of bugs in our household.

 

[calodo2003]

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[RedDevilQuebecois]

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Freedumb in all of its glory.

Seriously though, this is where I wish and hope that a class-action lawsuit against the former administration can be filed on the grounds that the airing of several bits of misleading information has been directly responsible for those deaths.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Surely republican voters average much older than democrat voters. Which would explain that finding.

 

[Shakesy]

I guess I had it a couple of weeks ago. No symptoms, but an unbreakable fever from hell. Oh well. Gel.

 

[Rado_N]

Surely republican voters average much older than democrat voters. Which would explain that finding.

It’s because the number of antivax morons is so high amongst their idiot base.

 

[calodo2003]

Surely republican voters average much older than democrat voters. Which would explain that finding.

I would say older, not much older though. Vaccine rates between the two groups are grossly different which is surreal as one would think that an older set of people would want to do whatever it could to ensure survivability. They were swayed by the disinfo, propaganda, etc.

Both facts are at play.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It’s because the number of antivax morons is so high amongst their idiot base.

Maybe? Age has always been the biggest driver of bad outcomes due to covid. For young people a vaccine is rarely the difference between life and death. More likely the difference between a week in bed and a head cold.

The only thing I’m not sure about is the average age of red vs blue voters. And average could be misleading. You really want to know which has the highest number of 60+ voters. In the Uk/Ireland that would most definitely be conservative/right wing parties.

 

[Rado_N]

Maybe? Age has always been the biggest driver of bad outcomes due to covid. For young people a vaccine is rarely the difference between life and death. More likely the difference between a week in bed and a head cold.

The only thing I’m not sure about is the average age of red vs blue voters. And average could be misleading. You really want to know which has the highest number of 60+ voters. In the Uk/Ireland that would most definitely be conservative/right wing parties.

From the article:

“In 2018 and the early parts of 2020, excess death rates for Republicans and Democrats are similar, and centered around zero,” the study said. “Both groups experienced a similar large spike in excess deaths in the winter of 2020-2021. However, in the summer of 2021—after vaccines were widely available—the Republican excess death rate rose to nearly double that of Democrats, and this gap widened further in the winter of 2021.”

The study attributes this to the vaccine uptake disparity between Republicans and Democrats, which has been widely documented as more Republicans refused to take the vaccine; the most vocal anti-vax voices were Republican politicians and some conservative news outlets: “The gap in excess death rates between Republicans and Democrats is concentrated in counties with low vaccination rates and only materializes after vaccines became widely available,” the study notes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

From the article:

“In 2018 and the early parts of 2020, excess death rates for Republicans and Democrats are similar, and centered around zero,” the study said. “Both groups experienced a similar large spike in excess deaths in the winter of 2020-2021. However, in the summer of 2021—after vaccines were widely available—the Republican excess death rate rose to nearly double that of Democrats, and this gap widened further in the winter of 2021.”

The study attributes this to the vaccine uptake disparity between Republicans and Democrats, which has been widely documented as more Republicans refused to take the vaccine; the most vocal anti-vax voices were Republican politicians and some conservative news outlets: “The gap in excess death rates between Republicans and Democrats is concentrated in counties with low vaccination rates and only materializes after vaccines became widely available,” the study notes.

That’s gas. The amount of times I’ve sneered at people for posting about a tweet without actually reading the linked article. Hoist by my own petard!

In my defence, I’ve just got back in from the pub. Couldn’t possibly go the whole nine yards and actually read something like that. All I’ve got is hot takes and one liners.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Age, propensity to be anti-vax, anti-mask and anti-other preventative measures along with a greater likelihood of engaging in high risk behaviors due to their political leanings and their impact on their perception of COVID 19 would be a good summary of contributing factors.

 

[Irwin99]

I got symptoms for the very first time on Christmas Eve and by Christmas day i knew i had it (did a test a few days later and confirmed it). Had no cough strangely enough, just a horrible sore throat, lethargy and alternating between being too cold and too hot.

 

[calodo2003]

I got symptoms for the very first time on Christmas Eve and by Christmas day i knew i had it (did a test a few days later and confirmed it). Had no cough strangely enough, just a horrible sore throat, lethargy and alternating between being too cold and too hot.

Lucky. The dry, non-productive cough was horrible for me.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just in case anyone has anti-vax friends or colleagues throw this in your face, remember that is a good example of why vaccines are so safe. The ongoing monitoring of safety picks up even the smallest risks to health and the regulators and manufacturers share that information as soon as it comes to hand. And the bigger the number of doses received the better we are at picking up these sort of safety signals. With covid vaccines we’re talking absolutely enormous numbers.

 

[Red in STL]

Just in case anyone has anti-vax friends or colleagues throw this in your face, remember that is a good example of why vaccines are so safe. The ongoing monitoring of safety picks up even the smallest risks to health and the regulators and manufacturers share that information as soon as it comes to hand. And the bigger the number of doses received the better we are at picking up these sort of safety signals. With covid vaccines we’re talking absolutely enormous numbers.

Exactly right but you'll never convince ant-vaxxers

 

[calodo2003]

Exactly right but you'll never convince ant-vaxxers

Especially with an article from that leftist ‘news’ shop Reuters. Can’t wait to show this to my antivax colleagues & see if they will badmouth Reuters like they always do.

 

[Red in STL]

Especially with an article from that leftist ‘news’ shop Reuters. Can’t wait to show this to my antivax colleagues & see if they will badmouth Reuters like they always do.

I work in medical publishing and can read, if not really understand, most of the science that's been published, but I have in-law relatives that won't have it!

 

[WI_Red]

I work in medical publishing and can read, if not really understand, most of the science that's been published, but I have in-law relatives that won't have it!

The wife and I did our PhD work on a respiratory pathogen and our lab was involved in vaccine work for said pathogen. We had family and (now former) friends who would argue with us and cite Facebook posts as evidence. Had that happen on here too which is why I self imposed a COVID ban on myself.

 

[Red in STL]

The wife and I did our PhD work on a respiratory pathogen and our lab was involved in vaccine work for said pathogen. We had family and (now former) friends who would argue with us and cite Facebook posts as evidence. Had that happen on here too which is why I self imposed a COVID ban on myself.

I banned my step daughter from our house, she's not anti-vaxx but wouldn't have the COVID ones because she said they weren't tested properly and she wasn't being a guinea pig, that's not a wholly unreasonable argument but I disagreed and she was banned!

 

[WI_Red]

I banned my step daughter from our house, she's not anti-vaxx but wouldn't have the COVID ones because she said they weren't tested properly and she wasn't being a guinea pig, that's not a wholly unreasonable argument but I disagreed and she was banned!

Except they were tested properly. The original EUA was followed up by official clearance by the FDA. Ok, I am going back into exile.

 

[Red in STL]

Except they were tested properly. The original EUA was followed up by official clearance by the FDA. Ok, I am going back into exile.

The normal turnaround for vaccine approval is a lot longer than what happened here, there's no getting away for that fact, whether that really matters is a different discussion because the question should be why do they normally take so long to be approved

 

[Wibble]

The normal turnaround for vaccine approval is a lot longer than what happened here, there's no getting away for that fact, whether that really matters is a different discussion because the question should be why do they normally take so long to be approved

The approvals were essentially no different. The shorter time frames didn't mean anything was skipped. Just that there was a greater imperative to speed up the purely administrative combined with the unusual situation of there being so many infected people to test on.

 

[Wibble]

I banned my step daughter from our house, she's not anti-vaxx but wouldn't have the COVID ones because she said they weren't tested properly and she wasn't being a guinea pig, that's not a wholly unreasonable argument but I disagreed and she was banned!

It is a ludicrous argument and well done making such a hard call.

 

[Wibble]

The wife and I did our PhD work on a respiratory pathogen and our lab was involved in vaccine work for said pathogen. We had family and (now former) friends who would argue with us and cite Facebook posts as evidence. Had that happen on here too which is why I self imposed a COVID ban on myself.

I was in Perth on holiday this week and when trying to avoid shopping with my wife and SIL I was acosted by and "alternative news" idiot. She was one of those loons who was calm despite drinking the coolaid. I tortured her with fact, logic and data for 30 mins before she ran away. Best fun I've had in ages.

 

[horsechoker]

It is a ludicrous argument and well done making such a hard call.

Eric Ten dad

 

[Red in STL]

Eric Ten dad

I've still got hair mate, not quite as much as I used to mind

 

[WI_Red]

I've still got hair mate, not quite as much as I used to mind

Look at this guy with his cool “I got hair” flex. Bastard.

 

[Red in STL]

Look at this guy with his cool “I got hair” flex. Bastard.

I am anything but cool - give it a few more years and it'll be a Bobby Charlton!

 

[Penna]

I got the bivalent booster this week, jab number 5 for me. The vaccination centre has now been downgraded to a smallish building, and there were only a handful of people there. In fact, the doctor and nurse were standing there waiting for me.

I know anecdotally from talking to people in the village that some people stopped after the first booster, or even after the initial two jabs. I think they only got the vaccine because you were basically banned from everything and anything here if you hadn't completed the initial course. That's no longer the case, so people have just moved on.

I think it's a mistake.

 

[jojojo]

I got the bivalent booster this week, jab number 5 for me. The vaccination centre has now been downgraded to a smallish building, and there were only a handful of people there. In fact, the doctor and nurse were standing there waiting for me.

I know anecdotally from talking to people in the village that some people stopped after the first booster, or even after the initial two jabs. I think they only got the vaccine because you were basically banned from everything and anything here if you hadn't completed the initial course. That's no longer the case, so people have just moved on.

I think it's a mistake.

For most people under 50, the risk of severe disease if you've had three doses is very low.

I think we're at the stage where targeting the message, and the provision, towards people who really will get major benefit is the crucial thing. If we need it annually, I'd like it to become routine, like flu boosters etc in the priority groups (and typically offered at the same time/place).

It might be in a couple of years a new variant (or a completely new infectious disease) comes along where we really need everyone to jump into action, but that's a different thing.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I got the bivalent booster this week, jab number 5 for me. The vaccination centre has now been downgraded to a smallish building, and there were only a handful of people there. In fact, the doctor and nurse were standing there waiting for me.

I know anecdotally from talking to people in the village that some people stopped after the first booster, or even after the initial two jabs. I think they only got the vaccine because you were basically banned from everything and anything here if you hadn't completed the initial course. That's no longer the case, so people have just moved on.

I think it's a mistake.

In addition to what @jojojo said the vast majority of those will have got (or will get soon) a ‘natural booster’ from catching covid. A lot of them without even realising it, due to asymptomatic illness. The pool of people who’ve never been exposed must be tiny at this stage.