You're shrugging your shoulders and going "ah well" to millions of people. By giving up on them we've lost our humanity but it's all good because we'd still be rich. Pretty disgraceful attitude to have in my opinion.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Eugh, what a mindset. feck them they’re ill anyway. Tell that to not only people with underlying issues but the seemingly healthy people who are suffocating to death too. Take a feckin look at yourself and think how lucky you are that you’re not one of the statistics
I too find it shocking that the majority of people are actively acting in other people's interest.
Absolutely, I buy that argument, and maybe you cannot trust in humanity.
But still, things like this leave a sour taste for me:
and then threatening:
I dun know man, I think it's going too far and verges on wankerish, it's losing sight of what you're trying to achieve and what you will need to do for month after month in order to save lives.
I agree with the new labour deputy leader who responded "It's alright for people who have got big houses and huge back gardens to say that.
"But actually if you're stuck in inadequate accommodation, you've got no back garden, you've got nowhere to go and you're all on top of each other, quite literally, then I think people should do social distancing and should keep their distance but also be reasonable and proportionate about that."
Just been to get shopping for myself and mum in the UK. Utilised the early access for emergency workers for the first time which was great and let me get essential things I had been struggling to find in stock. Everyone inside was orderly, relaxed and keen to observe the rules. The staff were brilliant too and opened every single checkout to get us through quickly. One thing I couldn't get was small hand sanitiser though which was frustrating. Hopefully can find some this week.
One thing I did notice though was not one emergency worker was walking around wearing gloves, masks and whatever else whilst the queue outside of the general public had people kitted up like the were going in an ICU. Quite interesting really.
One thing I did notice though was not one emergency worker was walking around wearing gloves, masks and whatever else whilst the queue outside of the general public had people kitted up like the were going in an ICU. Quite interesting really.
I did say it was a cold way of looking at things, but in the back of mind I am looking more to the future that might become considerably more dimmer than it was before this for millions of children, of which I have two. I am thinking aloud, not necessarily advocating what I have hypothesized. It needs to be thought about in my opinion. It's got nothing to do with being rich, I am not rich, but has everything to do with hope for those who have only just started their lives.
They don't specify ICU attention but these are the figures for hospitalisation:
I'd imagine if they're using the early Chinese figures then they'd be using the same 5% ICU figure from this.
Even the daily death numbers in the UK are misleading.
Because they only count deaths in hospitals.
Aye, @Cardboard elk asked me earlier why the Swedish might be almost doubling their figures now and it’s because of that. If people die quickly at homes or nursing homes before getting diagnosed or receiving medical attention, the daily numbers are bound to be out and will require correction later.
I’m also sure some countries are counting deaths differently as to what constitutes death by covid-19 or death with covid-19.
You're describing it as a choice with misplaced priorities. If you put aside the evidence that suggests it is not a choice, I can't quite understand the idea of misplaced priorities. Do you think the people in government now have typically put healthcare above the economy? Do you think they put people ahead of businesses more than previous governments?
That’s not perfect data though is it?They don't specify ICU attention but these are the figures for hospitalisation:
I'd imagine if they're using the early Chinese figures then they'd be using the same 5% ICU figure from this.
I mean, I get why the are going on it as any data is often better than none.
Will they be updating that information soon with information from Europe?
That number is up to 40,000 now.You're looking at it from the German perspective, but in reality the UK is in a different world on this.
The major concern is about overloading the healthcare system past its breaking point. The UK has 4,500 ICU beds, Germany has 24,500 beds. Based on a study in Wuhan, about 5% of cases require ICU beds, so Germany has the capacity to manage 490,000 typical cases (50x what they currently have) while the UK has the capacity to manage 90,000 typical cases (a little over double what they currently have). On top of that the UK has a shortage of PPE and testing capacity, leading to many more doctors ill or self-isolating and reducing the peak demand they can manage. The UK had no alternative because the infrastructure in place was dramatically inferior to Germany.
We already have hospitals urging people not to go there because they have severe resource shortages. On lockdown. Surely everyone could see that would be happening on a much wider scale if not for the lockdown. It wouldn't simply have been a few old people losing a few months of their lives. It's the healthcare system that's at risk.
If we had 25,000 ICU beds then we would be able to cope without a lockdown, as per this graph on the top-left from Imperial's modelling. Instead, because the ICU capacity is 5x lower, even with the most risky approach to suppression we will need to be in intermittent lockdown for 6 of the next 18 months, 1 month on, 2 months off.
Germany does have 25,000 ICU beds so they have more choice in that regard.
Austria's curves look very promising. Higher number of recoveries than new infections for the first time yesterday: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/austria/
Yes it's imperfect data. There's a reason you choose to focus on the imperfections.
Selfish, heartless bastards.
They don't give a feck about 5 year old kids dying on their own and having to be buried the same way or about nurses and doctors risking their lives in apocalyptic conditions. As long as they can have a day at the beach then all's fine in the world.
Calling them idiots is giving them an out. They aren't too thick to understand what is going on they just don't care. As long as it doesn't affect them personally why should their lives be disrupted.
It was the imperial model without any of the distancing strategies to reduce infection rates so I’m not sure on what grounds of expertise you can call it an unlikely worst case scenario.
It’s also worth noting that based on Spanish flu data from 1918 I think, cities that locked down recovered faster economically than cities that did not so it suggests that the current lockdown approach is economically the best approach anyway.
Feel free to march over to your nearest hospital and tell the NHS staff and patients your perspective. Sorry, but that's a shocking attitude to have, like inherently selfish and despicable. I'm actually a bit astounded that you're rationlising your kids future as a reason to accept millions of people dying.
Which cities locked down during the Spanish flu? I was under the impression that there were bans on some gatherings and some public places were closed; but it was nothing like the current coronavirus lockdowns as the focus everywhere was on the war effort.
She's harming no-one.
"Unlikely worst case" is fair I'd say, and there's nothing wrong in going on worst case scenarios and then scaling back. Plenty of European data so far might be pointing to the amount of hospitalisations required for those infected with Covid-19 is much lower than those Chinese figures in the Imperial model.
She is. She's diluting the message making it look like it is one rule for them and one rule for everybody else. It gives the people travelling to the beach an excuse.
Furthermore she should have know how this would look and be played out in the media.
Indeed and in her own words her reasons for going did not justify the trip.
The rule is stupid though. She's not harmed anyone, people wanting to stay in their second homes isn't a problem for me.
There's a reason they are going on worst case, absolutely, it's the safest way.
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/de...-Outbreak-of-coronavirus-disease-COVID-19.pdf
Hopefully the rate of hospitalisation in the 80+ bracket is closer to accurate on the above, which would mean that Imperial vastly overrated the rate of hospitalisation. And considering how many cases go unnoticed, I'm desperately hoping all the percentages turn out to be even less than those. feck me I hope so.
Ditto.
People are desperate to get pissed about anything right now, use some common sense about what to get angry about. BBQ at her mates with 15 others... get fecking angry.
Off to Summer house in a car, isolated from rest of World... no big deal.
Use the same standards for everyone.
Ask those in Southern Italy if people going from highly infected areas into areas with a lessened healthcare system to stay in their second homes is a problem or not.
The rule isn't stupid. The rule is to prevent the further spread of the disease between regions. Look what happened in Italy, and to a lesser extent in Spain when every fecker ran for their bolt holes.
I could give two shits about anyones education. People can recover from that. Just like the economy can recover. You know who can’t recover? The people dying. So that should be the main priority which is saving lives not your nieces education.
Nobody has even talked about going into lockdown until Vaccine comes. But reducing the number of cases is the priority and having a lockdown will help that.
You say it’s not about wanting to go back to the pub or cinema? Then what is it about? These are the businesses that you talking about that will struggle, but you don’t want to go there. So what is it?
Hush with your facts. Won't someone think of those poor unfortunates who have to stay in just one of their multiple homes?
What we know in the UK currently is there are 41,903 confirmed cases in hospitals, and at least 2,249 critical cases. So 5.3% of those hospitalised go to critical care. Of those 2,249, 1,559 are in critical care. The UK only has the capacity for 3x that so without the lockdown it's hard to see how the healthcare system wouldn't have been overloaded, which is what has the serious knock-on effects and the spike in deaths. Nurses aren't saying they're already on their knees for nothing.
And your report also points to 4% of cases going to ICU, which is the key focus in the Imperial modelling. The UK aren't worried about hospital capacity they're worried about ICU capacity.
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Like I said, I am playing devils advocate here.
I am worried that there might not be much of a world after this if we remain in lockdown too long. It's a hard choice, I know, but plunge many more millions into poverty than would die of the virus might be a long term better outcome.
If they ran and stayed in their bolt holes, away from everyone and isolated. Yes, it's stupid.
If they fled to hang out in another smaller town around their population... not stupid.
I won't tar everyone who gives such opinions with the same brush but from the facebook idiots i know it seems to be people who are just bored of the lockdown. Which yeah great you're bored so let people die. Individualistic a-holes.
It also appears to be the brexiteers/anti climate change folk who are suddenly oh so concerned with their children's future and the economy.
Spain
6023 new cases, total 130759
674 deaths, 12418 total
Deaths haven't been this low for about 10 days, and two weeks for cases so perhaps a real sign of a drop but it's weekend and things can increase in other regions in Spain
6023 new cases, total 130759
674 deaths, 12418 total
Deaths haven't been this low for about 10 days, and two weeks for cases so perhaps a real sign of a drop but it's weekend and things can increase in other regions in Spain
I can understand it from both opinions, but worst case scenario, if one of her family did have Covid she'd be taking it to possibly an area that:
1. Wasn't infected before she travelled there.
2. Doesn't have the same hospital infrastucture and so would struggle badly with an outbreak.
From her perspective leaving the city would enable her to better protect her family, with the added bonus of being able to go somewhere they could relax in. Which would be good from her mental state.
But you can't be a top government official ordering the entire population to follow rules and then break them yourself a few days later.
Dont fecking travel! Its the one guarenteed way to spread the virus to less affected areas.
Im sure residents of that areas would tell her to stay away
Is that not the number of infected? Fairly sure you don't have 41 thousand hospitalised patients right now.
Do you?
Sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither.
Here's that lack of common sense again though. Symptomless and isolated, how on Earth is she gonna spread it?