Lithuania: Just 5 new cases according to yesterday's test (5k+) results. Quite a few things have opened up already; outside cafes, shopping centres, hair and beauty saloons, etc., and tomorrow I've got an appointment with a barber, finally.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
They're also all among the lowest for testing too. The data is not trustworthy. If they're unable to sufficiently test the living they're certainly not going to be testing all the deceased.
We will have to wait months or years until the developing world has a chance to assess the true impact.
Has anybody still got hope that lockdown restrictions will be lifted in any meaningful way in 2020? I've totally given up on that and have declared this year a total write off - no holidays, no pubs, etc.
Really dont agree with this to be honest . The time for apologies will come after the public enquiries that will take place after this . If he apologises now for the poor guys death , would that be an admission of guilt ? do we really know beyond any doubt that he caught covid at work for instance .( its very likely , but can it 100 % be gauranteed ) Do we know what level of ppe he had on , was adhering to guidelines at all times . Knee jerk admissions , or accusations of blame for that matter do nothing to help when the situation is ongoing , like a verdict before a trial in effect .
Regarding the deaths of nhs care staff i do have concerns which will no doubt need to be looked into . The main one concerns the numbers and demographics of the dead . One thing that to me has been concerning are the ages of them . I was looking at a list of the dead the other day and it shocked me how many of them were in their late 60s , 70s and even into thier 80s . Surely these high risk staff should have been sent home as this pandemic developed . My mate works in a garage ( big , nationwide dealership ) . As soon as deaths started to rise , all vulnerable and old staff were told to leave site with immediate effect . To me thats a responsible action to take . I,m shocked trust managers at nhs establishments did not take similar action to protect staff , especially given the risk of transmission and viral load.
The reason why Piers Morgan is such a Tuesday is that he's capable of being an good journalist and a tough interviewer, but spends most of his time taking the easier route to fame.
We don't have enough staff as it is - that is the problem within the NHS and why we have been asking retired nurses and doctors to volunteer to come back - these people are extremely brave as they know they are vulnerable and putting themselves at risk.
That was great from Piers Moron. She looked totally out of her depth.
In the interest of a little positivity, biotech dude from previous page shared this video, which I’m halfway through.
The presenter works for a pretty reputable institution and dumbs down the immunology very well. Covers most of what we know about this virus from an immunological perspective and should be easy enough for anyone who has done biology at any level to follow. Or even if you’ve never done biology you should follow most of it. He is VERY positive about our chances of developing effective vaccine and therapies.
I suspect there’s an element of this being a sales pitch for his company but I generally have good faith in the essential honesty of academics like him, even when they’re conflicted.
The presenter works for a pretty reputable institution and dumbs down the immunology very well. Covers most of what we know about this virus from an immunological perspective and should be easy enough for anyone who has done biology at any level to follow. Or even if you’ve never done biology you should follow most of it. He is VERY positive about our chances of developing effective vaccine and therapies.
I suspect there’s an element of this being a sales pitch for his company but I generally have good faith in the essential honesty of academics like him, even when they’re conflicted.
Would shock you the number of people calling the criticism of the government an anti-brexit plot.
We have turned to America. Don't have any doubt about it.
We have turned to America. Don't have any doubt about it.
You are right that the government will say that we caught this thing in communities. It will be their most significant argument in a legal case in the future I'm sure.
What I will argue and many will argue in return is that its quite likely that we are catching this thing in our line of work. Many NHS workers are now working from hospital accommodation and living separate to their families (like myself) due to risk of passing this on to our loved ones. And the time we spend at work is infinitely more in terms of infectious risk than what we do in the community (in terms of exposure to in terms of time and percentage of people with COVID).
There is a study that looked into this incidentally
https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-dea...Lgbsyf5Ni4p0OySUF7G96r_Y#.XqMykfnrs_4.twitter
https://en.medshr.net/open/coronavi...QWaAbZh5by8ZUFoiIhTTPR9GmeISua8mhmDsvr_JrJdLs
Published 6 days ago they studied 119 doctors who died from COVID. incidentally it is well known that anaesthesia is the largest hospital speciality by far, yet not a single death among those 119 was there an anaesthetist or intensivist. Anaesthetists and intensivists get better PPE. Those doctors you would think might also be at risk of catching it in the community surely too?
Under 50s in the study represented 34% of deaths so it does affect a lot of younger people too, BAME doctors however and older doctors tend to be more represented though agreed in terms of mortality.
I agree that there needs to be consideration of demographic of doctors or healthcare workers exposed in the frontline to these patients but sadly with the burden of this thing + with rota gaps not a hope in hell that certain doctors will be exempt.
Indonesia's low death count is a large underestimate. A journalist from Reuters discovered just today that around 2,200 Indonesians, on top of the official numbers, have died of hallmark corona symptoms in the past few months (though tuberculosis is severely endemic here). That said, the number of cases is also an underestimate due to limited testing capabilities -- most experts and even our government, who have been accused by some quarters of manipulating corona-related data, believe the real number is close to 50,000.
But your point remains true: 3000/50000 gives you a CFR of six percent or thereabouts. Relatively lower than the numbers you see in many parts of Europe.
Yep, it's mental what happened to the UK. They even turned on Piers Morgan, blaming NHS for everything now.
Could the Asian figures be related to the fact not many of them are obese/overweight? Talking about the general population of course, not your wealthy flabby businessman type.
Is that an issue in Italy?
100% yes, for me. If you've written off 2020, I would write off 2021,2022 and so on as well because we'd be well and truly fecked as a nation. There will be no holidays, pubs, etc in general, not just this year, and as a result the economy is dusted. I don't see it happening at all, just my opinion of course. Small businesses in South Wales have already been whispering about reopening soon, holiday companies have been advised (obviously, this can and likely will change) that they can start running holidays from mid-May (TUI i think, very optimistic that one) and mid-June (I think Jet2 or something like that). Basically, if you want to go abroad, I think you can by mid-late June. Hell, scratch that - you can go tomorrow. There are many countries that don't have a travel ban nor a strict lockdown, if you could find a flight and wanted to go, you could go somewhere tomorrow. I know this for a fact because I've been keeping tabs on certain countries for potential summer holidays myself, and those I'm looking at are lifting travel restrictions in mid-May. There are also reduced flights to those countries, running once a week or similar from the UK. More frequently from some other capitals in Europe. Costa del Sol (not my cup of tea whatseover but a good example of a popular Brit destination) are aiming to open their bars by late May.
No, but I'd imagine the 'oldest population in Europe' has quite a bit to do with it, in Italy's case.
I really hope you are right! I'm quite pessimistic though on this - work in NHS and things are not good and I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I had to work through Easter bank holidays and have been advised that all May bank holidays are also cancelled.
Some of the Asian countries are on a pretty heavily policed lock-down so that has to be taken into account.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rodrig...ident-coronavirus-lockdown-shoot-people-dead/
There's an interesting line in that article which may or may not be true "So far, actions taken by authoritarian governments have proven most effective in stemming the spread of the virus – asking citizens to sacrifice privacy and some of their freedoms in exchange for public health. "
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rodrig...ident-coronavirus-lockdown-shoot-people-dead/
There's an interesting line in that article which may or may not be true "So far, actions taken by authoritarian governments have proven most effective in stemming the spread of the virus – asking citizens to sacrifice privacy and some of their freedoms in exchange for public health. "
I'm all for Tory minister bashing, but to be fair to her, this isn't her department.
Also Morgan was being an tit by constantly taking over her and saying she was 'laughing'. She wasn't, and that negates how people will view the interview.
She's an idiot for agreeing to be interviewed on a subject beyond her expertise, when Tories know any public interview will be heavily skewed towards NHS Covid19 controversies.
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The death rate isnt that low in india.. its about 3.3% of the reported cases.. which is about what would be expected till it starts spreading a lot faster and the hospitals start getting at full capacity..
30k is a lot of cases, but india is also a huge country. Mumbai alone has a population of nearly 20m.
We also have probably the strictest lockdown outside of China... with a few notable lapses.
30k is a lot of cases, but india is also a huge country. Mumbai alone has a population of nearly 20m.
We also have probably the strictest lockdown outside of China... with a few notable lapses.
Anyone know more about this Oxford trial vaccine? Given to monkeys who then didn't catch covid 19 Vs the others who caught it?
Many theories and hypothesis why South and South East Asia numbers are seemingly much lower:
- Quicker and more authoritarian implementation of lockdown and banning incoming international travel.
- Mask wearing immediately adopted by mass population limiting spread
- Stronger immunity systems because of harsher or less cleanly living environments
- Much younger demographic profile
- covid19 virus less effective and doesn't thrive in hot and humid weather.
- Generally better diet and less obesity
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Looks like another 2 weeks will be added to the current lockdown in Ireland. Can really see that people are starting to get fed up of the current restrictions. I hope the Government have good justification for it as well as a feasible plan for lifting restrictions throughout the summer in place or else people will start giving zero shites where they go and who they see.
Personally I'm fine with it continuing but there has to be some sense of progress or an end point given to us this time so that it shows they actually have a clue what they're doing.
Personally I'm fine with it continuing but there has to be some sense of progress or an end point given to us this time so that it shows they actually have a clue what they're doing.
Could that be related to the news of an increase in strokes in young people? Saw something about that, shared here, on the Washington Post.
Smoking rate in South and Southeast Asia is typically a lot higher than in most European countries. Since both smoking and obesity are risk factors, corona CFR should be similar in both regions but it evidently isn't.
There are so many things about the virus that we just don't know yet. If you were to ask me, my theory is the general population of South and Southeast Asia is younger than Europe; so those who get infected round these parts are typically of a younger demographic and therefore a much better chance of recovery.
He's terrible, just screams over anyone who has a different opinion to him.
Even in that video where he's actually in the right he ruins it by creating controversy that isn't there (claiming the women was laughing).
The infection rate in Germany has gone up again, unfortunately.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...087157332a13d3#block-5ea80c268f087157332a13d3
From Guardain:
The Covid-19 death toll in England and Wales was 52.9% higher than the daily figures. The Office for National Statistics said it had recorded 21,284 fatalities that mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate as of 17 April, compared with 13,917 in the daily hospital death stats published by the government.
Sounds kind of important! Am totally confused how many have died in UK, given Government won’t also add in outside of hospital deaths too.
We pretend we live in a free press democracy which reports truth but in reality, our Government lies and cheats as much as any tin pot dictatorships.
The Covid-19 death toll in England and Wales was 52.9% higher than the daily figures. The Office for National Statistics said it had recorded 21,284 fatalities that mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate as of 17 April, compared with 13,917 in the daily hospital death stats published by the government.
Sounds kind of important! Am totally confused how many have died in UK, given Government won’t also add in outside of hospital deaths too.
We pretend we live in a free press democracy which reports truth but in reality, our Government lies and cheats as much as any tin pot dictatorships.
They certainly do. I think was almost common knowledge though, we all know care homes have been major epicentres for deaths that haven't been counted towards the national figure. My aunt runs one in North-East England and they had a hellish 2 week period where they lost a good portion of their residents, they're thankfully now doing fine.
Thanks for that reply @Wolverine . That article does include some interesting reading and will take some time to digest . one of the things that jumped out that jumped out though was the graph which showed total deaths , alongside the deaths of healthcare workers . Both lines seemed to grow at the same rate , would that indicate that healthcare workers are dying at the same rate as the general public . If not it would be interesting to see a comparrison. Do not for one minute think i,m defending government policy in every way during the pandemic by the way . I much prefer to see unbiased opinion before forming my own and to be honest the reporting by journos through this pandemic has been woeful at best . I do go back to one of my points though , that i have real concerns about the ages of some of the health workers who have sadly died . I take on board your point about being short staffed , but to be allowing workers in their 70s and 80s to be in contact with covid patients does appear to be risky , bordering on negligent ( though admirable that those poor souls were willing to knowingly risk their lives to help in a time of crisis )
one thing that is certain though is that every single aspect of our response will be disected in the public eye once things settle down and in a calm precise manner , not a trial by piers morgan and not by some heartbroken family member being wheeled out wanting imediate answers ( quite understandable by the way , but very rarely possible )
Not the kind of headline you'd expect to see from a global bank but credit where it's due:
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The gift of a two party system I guess? They don't necessarily have to do a good job, it's enough for voters to have a marginally bigger dislike for Labour.
And BoJo probably still has his own infection working in his favour.
Absolutely. They’re seeing D-Dimers staying high long after all their other bloods have come back to normal. So something’s happened to their coag pathways which takes a long time to settle down.
we have an ITK who says it’s not going brilliantly. He posted yesterday
So today's figures, not including NI....
629.
546 (Eng), 13 (Wales), 70 (Scotland).
That's a leap from yesterday but 200 less than last Tuesday which is a significant improvement when you consider Tuesday is usually the biggest figure of the week. I know the care home / outside of hospital figures are depressing to read, but there are some positives here if we're looking at the numbers over the last three days.
I think yesterday, it ended up being a handful more than the figure I gave so I wouldn't be surprised if it's around 650 total.
629.
546 (Eng), 13 (Wales), 70 (Scotland).
That's a leap from yesterday but 200 less than last Tuesday which is a significant improvement when you consider Tuesday is usually the biggest figure of the week. I know the care home / outside of hospital figures are depressing to read, but there are some positives here if we're looking at the numbers over the last three days.
I think yesterday, it ended up being a handful more than the figure I gave so I wouldn't be surprised if it's around 650 total.
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So as posted on other threads on the Caf the New York Times is saying the infection rate in Germany has gone back to 1:0 after a period of relaxing the lockdown.
This period around the world needs to be treated with extreme caution and is crucial. Can't see the lockdown easing in the UK for another few weeks minimum, possibly longer if things continue to go wrong in other countries as evidenced.
This period around the world needs to be treated with extreme caution and is crucial. Can't see the lockdown easing in the UK for another few weeks minimum, possibly longer if things continue to go wrong in other countries as evidenced.
Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. 546 deaths announced today, 232 fewer than this time last week. Decline seems to be pretty steady.Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. Reported deaths were 778, 6 fewer than Saturday. Pretty confident we're on the slide now.
Orange is a 5 day trailing average. Last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes:
Orange is a 5 day trailing average. Last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes:
Not sure what to make of the report. I've continued to work in the city centre as an "essential" worker and there has been a significant upturn in people being out and about since last week, any extension of a lockdown will be largely ignored I fear.
EDIT: RTÉ reporting no decision has been made as of today, think Independent were looking for clicks.
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His reaction wasn't down to her not being able to answer but her refusing to do anything other than repeat pre prepared lines to questions he hasn't asked. If she doesn't know why is she dishing out "we've followed the science" mantra. Are you telling me she isn't aware of exercise cygnus? Couldn't have just said yes but you'll have to refer any questions to the health department?
Government ministers are put forward to answer questions from these shows, they don't decide the direction and they're not just there to be given air time to repeat prepared propoganda lines without scrutiny.
The right are simultaneously claiming that the opposition challenging the government is partisan politics and also that the media should refrain from tough questions. Great stuff isn't it.
Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. 546 deaths announced today, 232 fewer than this time last week. Decline seems to be pretty steady.
Orange is a 5 day trailing average. Last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes:
It's definitely a good sign yeah. A big decrease from this time last week. It would be a big morale boost if each day this week continues to show a decline from the numbers reported at the same time last week.