SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Atze-Peng]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52587368


I thought this was interesting.

Lockdown was always going to be a big ask in the UK. And if we extrapolate from this, it's likely that subsequent lockdowns will be adhered to even less.

Basically, the R0 of 0.9 we have at the moment could well be the lowest it gets until herd immunity is within reach.

Here in germany I see mostly young girls being outside to be honest. The boys and guys are just inside gaming.

 

[groovyalbert]

Sadly UK would never be disciplined enough to implement such. But we’ve got BrExit and freedom so we’ll be OK, right?

Not enough propaganda in that for my liking to be honest

 

[GloryHunter07]

My estate is half filled with fecking street parties, and then the private facebook group is full of people commenting that they are disappointed their aren't more (apparently those not doing so do not appreciate the sacrifice of those in WW2).

How hard was it for the government to say "hey we know alot of you want to do something but now is not the time." Useless lot.

Doesnt help that they changed the bank holiday to coincide with VE day.

 

[GloryHunter07]

If nobody leaves their home the virus would die. Obviously.

Well no.
NHS staff still need to go to work. Police still need to be on the streets. Fires still need to be put out. Ambulances driven. Electricity, gas, water, internet provided. Army bases manned. Air traffic controlled, lorries driven, food made. I could go on.

 

[Shakesy]

Well no.
NHS staff still need to go to work. Police still need to be on the streets. Fires still need to be put out. Ambulances driven. Electricity, gas, water, internet provided. Army bases manned. Air traffic controlled, lorries driven, food made. I could go on.

Ah crap. Seriously? This has been resolved. I agree!

 

[Wibble]

Someone coined a phrase for this paradox. Can’t remember what it is. You take measures to avoid a catastrophe. The measures work. We avoid a catastrophe. People say “why did we take these measure? there wasn’t any catastrophe “

Outcome bias and in this case it will particularly affect those who are particularly prone to normalcy bias.

 

[madzo2007]

Seen the Governments new slogan is going about twitter.... Stay Alert, Control the Virus, Save Lives

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[Shakesy]

Outcome bias and in this case it will particularly affect those who particularly prone to normalcy bias.

I'd suspect in COVID's case, most people have been prone to normalcy bias.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Seen the Governments new slogan is going about twitter.... Stay Alert, Control the Virus, Save Lives

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They’ve got to unwind people's anxiety about leaving the house now, the stay at home messaging was too effective! Now, the virus is still there but the NHS seems to be coping and the economy can’t take too much more Coronavirus support I reckon. I see they’re also developing a “risk score” which will show the risk score (even for your particular area), similar to the terrorist threat one. The subliminal message is clear - you still go to work even though the terrorist threat is set at “severe” you just stay alert. Same with this thing.

 

[SteveJ]

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Can't believe that Little Richard is Prime Minister...

 

[jojojo]

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Can't believe that Little Richard is Prime Minister...

 

[NinjaFletch]

That's one fecking stupid slogan.

Lockdown is over, then, caus if people can't manage it right now they're sure not going to with that being the messaging.

 

[horsechoker]

To conquer the virus, you must become the virus.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That’s going to pretty much kill off the UK airline industry isn’t it??

It’s also beyond stupid, someone entering the UK is much more likely to catch the fecking coronavirus outside of quarantine than to bring a “problem” with them.
The UK is absolutely riddled with corona, what on Earth is this meant to achieve at this stage?

It really is the blind leading the blind over there.

 

[SteveJ]

Careless. Talks. Costs Lives.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Seen the Governments new slogan is going about twitter.... Stay Alert, Control the Virus, Save Lives

Tweet

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new colour scheme as well
From Red to Green

 

[sammsky1]

That's one fecking stupid slogan.

Lockdown is over, then, caus if people can't manage it right now they're sure not going to with that being the messaging.

The slogan has been designed so they can claim to be in control.

 

[TMDaines]

Sky News' Alex Crawford visits ICU wards, temples and homes in this in-depth documentary that examines the devastating effects of the new coronavirus across the UK's communities.

Some of Sky’s reporting has been truly excellent during this.

 

[Dan_F]

They’ve got to unwind people's anxiety about leaving the house now, the stay at home messaging was too effective! Now, the virus is still there but the NHS seems to be coping and the economy can’t take too much more Coronavirus support I reckon. I see they’re also developing a “risk score” which will show the risk score (even for your particular area), similar to the terrorist threat one. The subliminal message is clear - you still go to work even though the terrorist threat is set at “severe” you just stay alert. Same with this thing.

Didn’t seem to be much anxiety for people to go and put out their bunting this weekend.

Just as well the terror level is set to severe, reminds me to keep vigilant at all times when I’m outside. Would love to know how they’re going to figure out the risk locally.

 

[JMack1234]

Stay Alert is a stupid slogan.

I get that the government need to change slogan, because need to begin coaxing a petrified population down from the top of a proverbial mountain of fear.

But how can you be alert to something you can't see? What about 'Stay safe' or 'Be responsible'

 

[Dobba]

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[horsechoker]

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[Wibble]

I think I should be a prime candidate in terms of WFH. Early 30's, no kids, self motivated, enjoy work and very much career / finance focused. However I'm unequivocally less productive; even when my 110 minute daily commute is factored in.

Not having kids around helps. Mine has left home so both of us working from home works really well. I'm far more productive because I don't have the distractions and interruptions of working in an open office.

My staff would all work from home four days a week if they could and truly I'd be a fool not to consider it (I have of course). I could genuinely offer them this in lieu of 3 years salary increase which would save me comfortably 5 figures annually. I'd save on fixed costs also and alleviate my biggest bugbear too... Parking!

Less pay for saving you money?

In my experience annoyingly however it just doesn't work productively on the whole. For myself for example I've never (maybe once a year) taken a lunch in the office but from home find myself taking a lengthy lunch daily and procrastinating far more frequently.

I work while I eat at home or at work.

I'm fully aware some people thrive at home; I have (a small minority of) staff that absolutely do. They log in to our server at 5:30am and log off at 8pm, using commuting time plus interest to work. However they are a small proportion. For every person I've seen who're 10% more productive there are 5 who're 30% less.

I've found the vast majority of people at my work are working far longer hours. In my case largely out of necessity because my areas workload has increased by probably a factor of 10. I think I've finally managed to recruit someone to support me which will help.

It isn't just about being watched. Outside of day to day productivity for example it's about staff hearing how other staff deal with issues every day and (hopefully) adapting and developing according to the skills of those around them. Some are detailed but passive, some assertive but sloppy, some inexperienced. Being in an office you hope people lose their negative attributes and encompass others' positives, becoming more rounded (I certainly have).

Training and mentoring employees will certainly be a challenge in a fully working from home model. And it will also be job/industry specific and also how big a team you need to manage. I'm lucky in that i only have to manage a small fairly senior team and I have the luxury of being fussy about who I employ albeit at the cost of my own workload.

 

[sammsky1]

Probably the most stunning piece of VDO Ive seen on Covid19, perhaps one of the best bits of VDO ever full stop?

What coronavirus looks like in EVERY country on earth - From Afghanistan to Zimbabwe

 

[Wibble]

This is a very good read.

https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury...XQf9xnZZZC7krsu6iDsT1DyNso#Echobox=1588897884

 

[Dante]

Put the over-50s and the obese into concentration camps, and open up the rest of society.

We need to save as many lives as possible whilst keeping businesses afloat and people earning money to put food on the table.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

In the example I gave they were working longer hours to get in front of their workload, so that they would be less stressed in the coming weeks and could tackle things more effectively.

Note being "logged in" doesn't mean you're working.



In this specific instance they took around 3 hours of breaks over the period. It wasn't a "one off" in the sense that a 55-60 hour working week is something that is likely to happen several times a year. However if you assumed a 70+ hour week would be even an occasional occurance then you'd be wrong and I was unclear.

In terms of pay the specific member of staff received a £15k bonus in recognition of his work, but no he didn't receive "overtime" specifically.



Again they are not flogging themselves and I didn't say some are working most of their waking hours whilst others are 10% productive. Each member of staff has an individual load so one person falling behind only effects their outcomes and future workload. I said that some staff work more productively from home, but most do not. A minority of staff use the quieter environment and lack of commute a great opportunity to get in front of their workload. Their 90+ minute daily commute is used instead to work and the flexibility allows them to work in "batches" that they find works for them, rather than a "normal" solid 9-10 hours when the office is open. Most staff however are less productive.

This is getting extremely off topic either way. It was merely a comment as to why I don't believe we'll see a widespread change in WFH post Covid.

I don't mean to join a pile-on here if there is one, but this seems like appalling management.

 

[Wibble]

The UK hasn't had a quarantine for incoming travel? That was the first thing Norway did, before any sort of shut down was implemented. We've actually recently decreased the quarantine from 14 days to 10 days.

Incidentally, health authorities in Norway are now saying that the shut down was too strict and lasted too long, and probably did not have a significant effect. Indications are that the rate of infection was already falling drastically from social distancing measures before the shut down. It's unclear whether that includes the quarantine, though.

The main reason Australia and New Zealand have got it so well under control is that we have virtually locked borders and a compulsory 14 police supervised quarantine on arrival.

 

[Wibble]

Video won't load for me, so he might well be high, but my missus is a biomedical scientist and her and apparently all the staff in her lab reckon that masks are a waste of time. They don't provide a seal around the mouth, and even if they did you'd need to be clean shaven for them to be properly air tight.

Basic surgical masks work to reduce the spread if the person wearing it has Covid as it.

 

[sglowrider]

Video loads if I visit the twitter page

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Fauci says no reason for people to be walking around with a mask and people will fiddle with it and touch their face. When you think masks think healthcare providers and ill people.

Saw a cyclist today wearing one while very hot weather. Don't think it's a good idea for anyone exercising to wear one, could restrict your breathing. Some Chinese students collapsed and died during exercise at school wearing a mask.

I have a mask for exercising -- its to simulate high altitude training. Supposedly designed to improve your endurance by building up lung capacity.

 

[Wibble]

It’s also beyond stupid, someone entering the UK is much more likely to catch the fecking coronavirus outside of quarantine than to bring a “problem” with them.
The UK is absolutely riddled with corona, what on Earth is this meant to achieve at this stage?

It really is the blind leading the blind over there.

Transmission in to and out of each country needs to be restricted otherwise nowhere will be able to control it as reinfection will occur from outside. Just because the UK have made a total mess of dealing with Corona doesn't mean you shouldn't take sensible measures.

In any case nobody with half a brain is getting in an aircraft if they don't have to at the moment.

 

[Wibble]

We can argue the toss about the risk for 20-40 year olds all day but we can all agree that the risk is pretty damn significant for those who are 65+. The idea that we should knowingly allow thousands and thousands of 65+ year olds die 10, 15 or 20 years before their time - in distress, with no loved ones to comfort them - to avoid some economic hardship is actually pretty monstrous.

Monstrous and immoral. Often with added neo-liberal evil.

 

[2 man midfield]

It's not about complete sealing. It's the same principle as social distancing. You want to reduce the viral load people are exposed to.

This is true, she (and I assume they) meant in terms of the person receiving it though. It's effective if everyone does it, but if it's just one person in a mask it won't protect them anymore than if they aren't wearing a mask. That's what I was told anyway.

 

[Wibble]

I can't believe how irresponsible people are being in the US and Europe (and probably elsewhere). We are down to a handful of infections and apart from having to police the beaches early on people have been mostly very happy to stay at home and socially distance etc and still want to open up only very slowly to avoid a second wave.

 

[Silva]

 

[Wibble]

He actually hasn't been on since the 17th March......

Hard to come back from that post.

 

[ha_rooney]

Freedom...

I’d love to see how these cnuts would react if we actually imposed a lockdown like Italy did.

 

[SteveJ]

How Boris Johnson Sided With "Doves" Over "Hawks" In His Government To Slow The UK's Exit From Lockdown

'Cabinet “doves” have claimed victory in a month-long battle that has raged at the top of government, securing a more cautious easing of coronavirus lockdown measures than sought by “hawks” who had wanted a rapid lifting of restrictions. Ahead of Boris Johnson’s address to the nation on Sunday evening, where he will give details of a “roadmap” for the phased relaxation of lockdown measures, BuzzFeed News can reveal details of the deeply politicised and at times heated debate across Downing Street, cabinet and the wider Conservative party that has taken place behind the scenes since the PM was discharged from hospital.

It can be revealed that:

• Some senior Number 10 advisers, cabinet ministers, senior civil servants and “a clear majority” of Tory MPs had initially lobbied for a “rival” exit strategy, privately arguing that the lockdown should be lifted more quickly than Johnson will announce tomorrow.

• But when Johnson returned after being hospitalised with the virus, he chose to back another group of Downing Street aides, senior ministers and officials who had called for a “safety first” approach. His chief aide Dominic Cummings’ view has also moved in favour of this position over the last few weeks.

• Most of the lockdown measures will remain in place after Sunday, with piecemeal changes to the number of times people can leave their homes and head to open spaces, followed by a staggered lifting of other restrictions, reopening schools and the wider economy over the following weeks if key data improves.

• Senior ministers have expressed fury at what one described as “weeks of insane briefing” to the media, accusing government hawks of trying to force Johnson into relaxing more measures, and claiming some newspapers were pursuing an anti-lockdown agenda because of fears about sales.'


More:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-sided-doves-over-hawks-lockdown

 

[sammsky1]

How Boris Johnson Sided With "Doves" Over "Hawks" In His Government To Slow The UK's Exit From Lockdown

'Cabinet “doves” have claimed victory in a month-long battle that has raged at the top of government, securing a more cautious easing of coronavirus lockdown measures than sought by “hawks” who had wanted a rapid lifting of restrictions. Ahead of Boris Johnson’s address to the nation on Sunday evening, where he will give details of a “roadmap” for the phased relaxation of lockdown measures, BuzzFeed News can reveal details of the deeply politicised and at times heated debate across Downing Street, cabinet and the wider Conservative party that has taken place behind the scenes since the PM was discharged from hospital.

It can be revealed that:

• Some senior Number 10 advisers, cabinet ministers, senior civil servants and “a clear majority” of Tory MPs had initially lobbied for a “rival” exit strategy, privately arguing that the lockdown should be lifted more quickly than Johnson will announce tomorrow.

• But when Johnson returned after being hospitalised with the virus, he chose to back another group of Downing Street aides, senior ministers and officials who had called for a “safety first” approach. His chief aide Dominic Cummings’ view has also moved in favour of this position over the last few weeks.

• Most of the lockdown measures will remain in place after Sunday, with piecemeal changes to the number of times people can leave their homes and head to open spaces, followed by a staggered lifting of other restrictions, reopening schools and the wider economy over the following weeks if key data improves.

• Senior ministers have expressed fury at what one described as “weeks of insane briefing” to the media, accusing government hawks of trying to force Johnson into relaxing more measures, and claiming some newspapers were pursuing an anti-lockdown agenda because of fears about sales.'


More:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-sided-doves-over-hawks-lockdown

Interesting report. Following quote below (came later in article) also captures how I feel.

“We ditched herd immunity when we got spooked by the Imperial report, by which point the virus had already spread and it was probably too late to get the benefits of lockdown. Now we want to leave lockdown but we have no herd immunity. So we have a vast death toll as well as the perfect storm for an awful second wave,” the MP argued.

 

[Wibble]

You get what you vote for I guess. Stunningly incompetent.