Put a collar on and see if it works?Ontario announced the opening of some businesses/sectors today. My dog will be able to get a groom soon.
I still can't get a haircut though.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
I think you'll get something else if you do that
That's why you left him
And the tag name finally makes sense.
Yeah, 200+ cases all from one hospital, not reported until now. Apparently the Occupational Health department was supposed to report them and didn’t. So they must all be HCWs. Can you imagine the sinking feeling for the poor bastard realising they’d missed that off their to do list?
Have you guys seen this interview?
https://www.patrickbetdavid.com/former-aids-scientist-calls-out-dr-faucis-medical-corruption/
Thoughts?
https://www.patrickbetdavid.com/former-aids-scientist-calls-out-dr-faucis-medical-corruption/
Thoughts?
Reality is lots of people will not have/not be able to afford a car and be travelling too far for walking. Not everyone rides a bike. Considering the short notice on the "back to work" message people may also not have had time to get one.
Other counties had 2 weeks notice on changes on policy. We get 24 hours notice in the UK. Irresponsible.
Good post. You quantified the assertions I made in my previous post. Much more thorough from you than me!
It has already been discussed.
It is pretty amazing how bad even the professors from Karolinska can be with simple calculations. This guy thinks Spain's infected could have increased 100% since 20.4. He believes that because it is his only hope that Sweden's calculations would not be so totally wrong.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/snabbkollen/spanska-virussiffror-kan-var-dubbla
Well, what is the problem, you might ask. Just a simple fact that, the deaths have increased only 28%, so clearly it is impossible that cases increased 100%. How can this be too hard for a professor. They are refuse to doubt themself and thus needlessly kill thousands of people. Just stay the feck on that side of the border. Danes already wisely said that Germans are welcome, but not Swedes, unfortunately I doubt our government will be as wise.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/snabbkollen/spanska-virussiffror-kan-var-dubbla
Well, what is the problem, you might ask. Just a simple fact that, the deaths have increased only 28%, so clearly it is impossible that cases increased 100%. How can this be too hard for a professor. They are refuse to doubt themself and thus needlessly kill thousands of people. Just stay the feck on that side of the border. Danes already wisely said that Germans are welcome, but not Swedes, unfortunately I doubt our government will be as wise.
Hard to follow your point when the linked article isn’t in English. What’s going on here?
Yes, that makes sense. I missed that completely.
"Speaking causes airborne virus transmission"
"Coronavirus study says droplets caused by talking can last 8-14 minutes" - peer reviewed.
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/05/12/2006874117?mod=article_inline
"Speech droplets generated by asymptomatic carriers of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) are increasingly considered to be a likely mode of disease transmission. Highly sensitive laser light scattering observations have revealed that loud speech can emit thousands of oral fluid droplets per second. In a closed, stagnant air environment, they disappear from the window of view with time constants in the range of 8 to 14 min, which corresponds to droplet nuclei of ca. 4 μm diameter, or 12- to 21-μm droplets prior to dehydration. These observations confirm that there is a substantial probability that normal speaking causes airborne virus transmission in confined environments."
"It has long been recognized that respiratory viruses can be transmitted via droplets that are generated by coughing or sneezing. It is less widely known that normal speaking also produces thousands of oral fluid droplets with a broad size distribution (ca. 1 μm to 500 μm) (1, 2). Droplets can harbor a variety of respiratory pathogens, including measles (3) and influenza virus (4) as well as Mycobacterium tuberculosis (5). High viral loads of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) have been detected in oral fluids of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)−positive patients (6), including asymptomatic ones (7). However, the possible role of small speech droplet nuclei with diameters of less than 30 μm, which potentially could remain airborne for extended periods of time (1, 2, 8, 9), has not been widely appreciated.
In a recent report (10), we used an intense sheet of laser light to visualize bursts of speech droplets produced during repeated spoken phrases"
"Coronavirus study says droplets caused by talking can last 8-14 minutes" - peer reviewed.
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/05/12/2006874117?mod=article_inline
"Speech droplets generated by asymptomatic carriers of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) are increasingly considered to be a likely mode of disease transmission. Highly sensitive laser light scattering observations have revealed that loud speech can emit thousands of oral fluid droplets per second. In a closed, stagnant air environment, they disappear from the window of view with time constants in the range of 8 to 14 min, which corresponds to droplet nuclei of ca. 4 μm diameter, or 12- to 21-μm droplets prior to dehydration. These observations confirm that there is a substantial probability that normal speaking causes airborne virus transmission in confined environments."
"It has long been recognized that respiratory viruses can be transmitted via droplets that are generated by coughing or sneezing. It is less widely known that normal speaking also produces thousands of oral fluid droplets with a broad size distribution (ca. 1 μm to 500 μm) (1, 2). Droplets can harbor a variety of respiratory pathogens, including measles (3) and influenza virus (4) as well as Mycobacterium tuberculosis (5). High viral loads of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) have been detected in oral fluids of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)−positive patients (6), including asymptomatic ones (7). However, the possible role of small speech droplet nuclei with diameters of less than 30 μm, which potentially could remain airborne for extended periods of time (1, 2, 8, 9), has not been widely appreciated.
In a recent report (10), we used an intense sheet of laser light to visualize bursts of speech droplets produced during repeated spoken phrases"
Yep, it’s ridiculous
That really was bizarre.
'Can we have a plan please?'
'No, now is not the time'
'Can we discuss the next stage?'
'No, it's too early'
...
'Okay, here's our half-assed plan, it starts in the morning, go!'
I remember a time when gross incompetence in government normally lead to a resignation in shame. Now such levels of incompetence come so thick and fast, we're on to the next example of buffoonery before anyone gets a chance to be properly grilled on it.
I get that, but I wouldn't put it past the government silencing/removing the history of people. Look at the case of Bob Lazar for example, they removed his affiliation/records very quickly.
There is a built-in translator in chrome at least, so I thought it didn't make much difference if I put the translation. Sorry about that.
The Spain's antibody numbers from yesterday were much much lower than Swedish thought they would be. And press there started to question their assumptions. So this guy was saying that Spain's numbers have doubled since 20.4. which would be closer the numbers Sweden thinks are correct, but even in that case just closer not actually high enough for Tegnell and co to be correct.
Study was done 27.4.-11.5., antibodies take about 2 weeks to develop. So 20.4. Spain has 5% infected. He says it is probably 10% now, a 100% increase. While from 20.4. deaths have increased 28%. So he is either a moron or a liar. Either is not good for this situation.
And if you think, but deaths lag behind. Spain is on a downward slope so the effect works actually in the opposite way, so he is even more wrong than 28% to 100%.
So their case of Stockholm having 26% of people infected is impossible in light of these numbers from Spain,not unlikely, but impossible.
But because of their own hubris and ego they refuse to see it. It is starting to frustrate me a lot, because Finland has a tendency to follow Sweden in everything we do. Which is a good strategy 90% of time. But now it is killing lives and the economy, here and there.
Just tired how selfish people are, thinking about their careers, instead of dealing with the correct numbers and making best possible decisions, in a difficult situation.
No they are saying avoid it if you can. The "packed" pictures of buses and trains aren't great, but they aren't exactly packed compared to how they would be during a normal rush hour. Particularly since there's only a fraction of a normal service running.
There's a lot of melodrama going round and people pretending things are much more confusing than they actually are, and it needs to stop really.
It's an impossible situation to make perfect. A train can have 1000+ people on it. No matter how much they manage to reduce the infections and how long they wait, there's never going to be a point where that doesn't create a significant chance of someone on board having corona virus. That's why they're doing a ton of work to encourage walking and cycling.
I'm sure they are fully aware there will still be packed trains...but a train packed with 500 people at the moment is still a far better situation than 5 trains packed with 1500 people each. THe former still gives a quite realistic chance of 0 spread of the virus, while the later practically guarantees someone's going to pass it on to multiple others.
Ah. Ok. I use chrome. Had no idea you could translate. D’oh!
Anyway. That does sound pretty embarrassing from Karolinska guy. Doubling down is never a good look for a scientist. He needs to admit he might have got this wrong. Or lose all credibility.
Yeah it was weird...and it's hardly been made clear exactly who should go back to work either. Our place is still deserted apart from the few of us who have to come in or are doing volunteer work. Nothing is getting done because "can work from home" and people actually doing their jobs when they're sat at home are a million miles from the same thing. It's got to a point where it is creating significant problems with services that are actually quite important...but nothing is going to change when the advice is so all over the place and there's no data being supplied to back anything up.
They're going down the route of ending up having to take furlough away to force employees to drag their workers back in, which isn't exactly going to end well.
Don't get what's wrong with saying "these sectors should start to return to work from this date" and staggering it in order of importance...In fact I can't figure out why this wouldn't be a completely sensible idea.
People aren't going to listen unless they're given at least some basis to trust the advice.
After the government reopened restaurants for take away this week, I just had Chinese food for the first time since March. Tasted like a slice of heaven.
Sarah, I've wanted to try this Korean place for ages, but it's not clear if it's reopened for takeaway or not. Kimchi pancakes
https://yoriuk.com/?utm_source=googlemybusiness&utm_medium=piccadilly
Hardcore scaremongering 'Stay at Home’ messaging for 6+ weeks (+ pre China and Italy news) will have embedded deep mental scars.
You can’t reverse that kind of psychological trauma without any confidence boosting news and also allowing furlough scheme and mortgage holiday to remain. On top of that UK Government didn’t allow workforce any time to plan nor provide the transport to get back to work.
This Boris led Government is an endangerment to Britain: dare I say more dangerous than covid19 itself. It’s worse than United’s post SAF handover. You literally couldn’t do it any worse.
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Interesting stuff. I think this has been suggested before a few times hasn't it, and it seems like a good enough reason to wear masks in indoor environments, although that still leaves eyes open and unprotected.
I don't think it mentions an area of spread or coverage of the droplets in that report does it? Do the speech droplets carry more than the recommended social distancing of 2 metres?
I'm thinking if you talked forcefully, shouted or laughed, that the area would be significantly larger than that, especially in 'stagnant' enclosed indoor places. Also if air flow is moving in your direction (ie from behind the person talking), then you'd get those droplets blown into your face wouldn't you? So be aware of air currents too?
I've been very wary about chatting to people indoors, and have tried to keep my distance and keep chats short and sweet.
The facts-free bluster required to win a Brexit war is totally unsuited to the technical challenges of dealing with a virus. Artfully ruffled hair and a few classically-inspired gags don’t do the trick against this opponent. I never thought I’d miss Theresa May but she would do a lot better in these circumstances.
More doom and gloom so apologies there, but it sounds like winter could be a tough time for health services if this thing is still prevalent (and the usual seasonal flu)
The teachers I know are very nervous about going back as kids might not usually be impacted that much but teaching is an aging profession and teachers have families including aged relatives.
The Tories were rewarded for the utter shambles they made of Brexit with reelection. I think Britain must be self destructive or masochistic or both.
She is a liar, plagiarist and proven fraudster. An anti-vaxxer who stole results from someone else's study of a different disease and published it trying to prove that a virus caused chronic fatigue syndrome. The was published in Science. When other researchers tried to replicate the findings it rapidly became apparent that the study was a fraud. She was sacked, arrested for the theft of the other researcher's data but her employer decided not to press charges. She hasn't been silenced or any of the things she claims. She is simply a dangerous, dishonest, tin foil hat wearing nutjob.
If she says something assume it is a lie. If she tells you it is dark outside at midnight have a look outside to check.
Great to have some working antibody tests at last, long overdue.
I'd love to know how many in U.K have already had the disease in some form. It has to be a few million at least. Some professor on BBC newscast right now was predicting half the population may of had it already although that seems too good to be true.
I'd love to know how many in U.K have already had the disease in some form. It has to be a few million at least. Some professor on BBC newscast right now was predicting half the population may of had it already although that seems too good to be true.
Or perhaps the other options were far more terryfying? For what its worth brexit only could happen once they were re elected. The 3 years or so prior to the election were a shamefull story of politicians from all parties willfully ignoring and delaying at all costs the vote of the people.....
That's all for another thread no doubt it will be pointed out.
Its a shame that some of the very good discussions in this thread have been clouded by obvious political bias and agenda.
This pandemic is without doubt the largest global event so far in my lifetime. Its fascinating and terryfying at the same time. My livelihood, which i have worked at for 25 yrs is at a genuine point of perhaps not being salvageable. I dont blame the tories for this as i see people dealing with loss at every level in almost every country far greater than mine. There are failings in our country for sure. Largest in my mind are the horrendous levelsof death in care homes, given that it was widely reported in other countries prior to it happening here.
Sadly, yet again there have been huge failings globaly. By that i mean communication and collaboration between countries.
China suppressing information initially ( at the very least) then protecting its interests by allowing people out but not in. The eu ignoring pleas for help from member states for financial and other help. Countries denying the virus would affect them ( trump and Brazil spring to mind)
People seem mainly to be 'blaming' and looking for scapegoats, fuelled by clickbait and a rabid press and inaccurate reporting, fuelling fear at the cost of truth.
I think this virus could be genuinly a turning point for the future. If countries can accept that global communications and integrity is not a sign of weakness, if a global financial agreement is put in place to compensate countries for being honest and pro active then maybe this sort of shit storm can be avoided in the future.
I think most of us here have seen the numbers, eye-watering numbers of deaths and financially as well, but also mainly we have looked at these on a country by country basis, whos doing better or worse than italy, spain, uk, Sweden etc. When will our, or their lockdown end.
Tragically there appears to have been very little pro active debate on here or globally about how to minimise loss of life or econonically. Ive not seen any reporting of heads of different nations acting as a group to share resources and knowledge globally and this is a shame. Things like that would have such a positive effect i think, rather than the negative poison we are fed by the press.
Went off on a tangent there and not having a go at you wibbs in particular but party politics is in my mind largely irrelevant right now.
That would be amazing news if true, do you have a link? It does seem to me that over the last few days, at least in the uk and over europe we are turning a corner. New cases falling, deaths falling, and in the uk deaths in care homes falling and accurate testing now being available. Still worrying in Russia and Brazil though but the more we learn about the disease the more globally we can do to protect the population in the subsequent waves.
I think the way this disease attacks particular demographics is perhaps a weakness it has that can help us. The elderly, people of bame backgrounds, diabetics, obese, people with copd. Maybe we can protect more carefully people from these highly at risk groups while allowing less at risk groups to return to normal wherever possible?
Imho politics is never more important if things are being handled badly, which many people believe
There has been plenty of pro active debate on here, go back through the nearly 900 pages and there is lots in there.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000j50y/the-coronavirus-newscast-series-1-14052020
It's within the first 5 minutes or so.
Nobody came out with any credit but the government were meant to be in charge and engineered the whole shambles. Utterly shameful and immoral from Cameron onwards.
You can't avoid the politics when the political party in charge have done such an appallingly bad job. Only perhaps out incompetented by Trump.
No matter what all countries will suffer economically but the Tories criminally negligent performance has not only cost many lives but also made the economic damage far wider, deeper and ongoing that necessary. A few countries have dealt with it well and those are what we should be comparing to.
I have a thick skin anyway
As for the highlighted bit, the NZ PM attended the last Australia national cabinet meeting. If we can both get our infections even further down then a NZ/AU travel bubble is being proposed to help both economies with the possible addition of pacific nations who eradicate the virus.
While much of what you say about international cooperation is true and the attempt by BoJo, Scomo and Trump (and no doubt others) to either distract from their own terrible job or just to progress an anti-chinese agenda is rather shameful. China was far more open and forthcoming than they usually are and without the early sharing of data and genome information we would be much worse off now particularly in the speed of vaccine development.
And some good new regarding vaccine development. Could be sooner than we thought.
https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury...el-prize-and-i-don-t-give-a-s-20200506-p54qhb
Have our Caf science peeps gone over this possible Vitamin D deficiency correlation with mortality? It was news to me.
NW University website
NW University website
I wonder what he thought the previous 900pages were about? Nail colours and whats the freshest look for this summer?