Saudi League thread

[crossy1686]

Quoted some of you from the Henderson thread and put it in here as that’s where me and Adexkola were conversing. About the general payday argument, the idea that setting out to earn more money isn’t an evil act (obviously we’re talking lawful enterprises here such as playing football and not murder for hire etc) adexkola said in another post he’s going there to just play football and not directly involve himself in killing etc MackRobinson implied the humans rights record shouldn’t matter in this context, as as Bosnian_red said there’s no need to make it anything more than a footballer playing football for a large payout, and that ultimately people shouldn’t have an issue with such a move.

So I’m wondering how widely applicable this logic is to you, through the medium of two (fun ) questions. The first is basically the Russia situation I talked about in my quoted post. If a player was offered a massive wage to leave their current club and join a Russian club today, would you think them worthy of criticism for accepting such a deal? And the second question is if not, is there a hypothetical situation in which you would find such a move worthy of being criticised (bearing in mind I’m talking strictly of geopolitical or social issue reasons, not something like team loyalty etc).

Of course none of you have to answer if you don’t want to, it’s just curiosity on my part as it’s not something I often get an answer to.

Good questions!

I suppose if someone was to move to Russia and do the same thing, the same logic applies, unless they openly state they approve of the war in Ukraine. That would probably be less palatable than what’s happening in the Middle East right now though.

And I’d say the line is probably outside of sport or going there for a job that doesn’t actively suppress people or harm people in any way.

At the end of the day all those footballers can go and play football there but if no one watches the games they still get paid and it’s a failed project. No ones forcing anyone to be part of these things if they don’t want to.

 

[MackRobinson]

Quoted some of you from the Henderson thread and put it in here as that’s where me and Adexkola were conversing. About the general payday argument, the idea that setting out to earn more money isn’t an evil act (obviously we’re talking lawful enterprises here such as playing football and not murder for hire etc) adexkola said in another post he’s going there to just play football and not directly involve himself in killing etc MackRobinson implied the humans rights record shouldn’t matter in this context, as as Bosnian_red said there’s no need to make it anything more than a footballer playing football for a large payout, and that ultimately people shouldn’t have an issue with such a move.

So I’m wondering how widely applicable this logic is to you, through the medium of two (fun ) questions. The first is basically the Russia situation I talked about in my quoted post. If a player was offered a massive wage to leave their current club and join a Russian club today, would you think them worthy of criticism for accepting such a deal? And the second question is if not, is there a hypothetical situation in which you would find such a move worthy of being criticised (bearing in mind I’m talking strictly of geopolitical or social issue reasons, not something like team loyalty etc).

Of course none of you have to answer if you don’t want to, it’s just curiosity on my part as it’s not something I often get an answer to.

No they would not be worthy of criticism and I wouldn’t care if they transferred to a Russian club. Are Russian football clubs invading Ukraine?

If a football player transferred to a club who actively engages in discriminatory practices or had a direct hand in human rights violations then I might feel a certain way about it.

 

[matherto]

Your last point is what makes it sad for me. These are some of the privileged few who don’t actually need the money - I get why a normal person would go there because you work there a few years and you materially change your quality of life when you go back to wherever home is for you. For footballers I guess they want to go from £25m net worth to £50m or something.

Harder to burn through £50m with a footballer's lifestyle than £25m though so it would materially change your quality of life all the same.

The only thing that's different between the average layman and a footballer is the scale. Everything scales up ingoing and outgoing.

 

[Red in STL]

No they would not be worthy of criticism and I wouldn’t care if they transferred to a Russian club. Are Russian football clubs invading Ukraine?

If a football player transferred to a club who actively engages in discriminatory practices or had a direct hand in human rights violations then I might feel a certain way about it.

I don't disagree with your comments but it appears it is worthy of criticism in other sports, tennis being an obvious example

 

[MackRobinson]

I don't disagree with your comments but it appears it is worthy of criticism in other sports, tennis being an obvious example

How so? I don’t follow tennis

 

[adexkola]

I don't disagree with your comments but it appears it is worthy of criticism in other sports, tennis being an obvious example

A lot of that criticism was hogwash.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Verratti, Savic and Neves. The state of it.

 

[Red in STL]

A lot of that criticism was hogwash.

Indeed

 

[Red in STL]

How so? I don’t follow tennis

I don't really follow tennis but there's been some stuff written about lack of handshakes at end of matches and boos from the crowd aimed at certain players relating to Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia

 

[arnie_ni]

Meh. I doubt they're going there because of Ronaldo, they're going there for the same reason he went - the wages.

It probably needed someone to jump first though in fairness. Was Ronaldo the first?

 

[arnie_ni]

Evil is a strong word, but I certainly think less of people who accept money to improve the image of a criminal regime.

They are accepting money to improve their own bank account. Nothing more

 

[maniak]

They are accepting money to improve their own bank account. Nothing more

Right...

 

[arnie_ni]

Right...

You think these players are sitting there thinking, if I sign it will help the country improve their image?

 

[maniak]

You think these players are sitting there thinking, if I sign it will help the country improve their image?

They're not idiots, they know that's why they're getting paid. But they - and you - can rationalize it any way they want.

 

[Red in STL]

Right...

Players are going to Saudi for one reason and that reason is money, they're no different from folks in the oil business who used to flock there to earn way more tax-free than they could elsewhere

 

[tomaldinho1]

Harder to burn through £50m with a footballer's lifestyle than £25m though so it would materially change your quality of life all the same.

The only thing that's different between the average layman and a footballer is the scale. Everything scales up ingoing and outgoing.

Not sure I agree here, it's a conscious choice to scale your lifestyle alongside your earnings. It doesn't just happen.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Moussa Dembele headed out there as well. Should get a poll for how many transfers there'll be by the end of the window, seems like it will be about 50!

 

[Red in STL]

Not sure I agree here, it's a conscious choice to scale your lifestyle alongside your earnings. It doesn't just happen.

The vast majority of people live to what their earnings allow them to, wealth doesn't change that

 

[Maluco]

Moussa Dembele headed out there as well. Should get a poll for how many transfers there'll be by the end of the window, seems like it will be about 50!

I don’t think that’s random, I read that this was the target for the summer, to have 50 recognizable names in the league, so they are only about half way there.

If Mane goes, that’s another big name with big pull. There are still quite a few clubs getting more desperate to offload wages and spend in otter areas so I fully expect them to achieve that goal by the end of the window.

 

[Jezpeza]

Its a retirement home for has beens or never really was players or injured forever players. They cant play CL so it’ll be pretty exhibitionary imo. Race to get all your overpaid crud out the door before the novelty wears off

 

[MackRobinson]

I don't really follow tennis but there's been some stuff written about lack of handshakes at end of matches and boos from the crowd aimed at certain players relating to Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia

That's bush league. I would somewhat understand a Ukrainian player having ill-feelings towards a Russian or Belorussian player but it's still a bit too much for me unless they have publicly supported the invasion.

 

[awop]

Liverpool and Chelsea are the big winners. Massive wages dump for Chelsea and Liverpool gets a 1 for 1 exchange between Fabinho and Lavia

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Do any of the UK broadcasters (Sky, TNT) have the broadcasting rights for the Saudi league?

 

[1950]

I don’t think that’s random, I read that this was the target for the summer, to have 50 recognizable names in the league, so they are only about half way there.

If Mane goes, that’s another big name with big pull. There are still quite a few clubs getting more desperate to offload wages and spend in otter areas so I fully expect them to achieve that goal by the end of the window.

Only 5 clubs (4 owned by PIF, 1 by the ministry of sport) have been signing high-profile players so far. And they are limited to 8 foreigners per club. I'm not sure the other clubs can afford these types of deals, seeing how they have stuck to mainly low-profile transfers from Romania, Poland, Belgium and leagues of similar stature.

 

[saivet]

Do any of the UK broadcasters (Sky, TNT) have the broadcasting rights for the Saudi league?

Sky were showing Ronaldo's matches for free on Youtube when he went there. Sure someone will pick them up. I vaguely remember Sky having rights to the Chinese league at one point.

 

[matherto]

Not sure I agree here, it's a conscious choice to scale your lifestyle alongside your earnings. It doesn't just happen.

When you're a footballer and you can afford all the trappings, you'll be buying houses, cars, eating in fancy places, drinks, hotels, etc, then add it all in for if you have a family - best schools, toys, etc - then if you've got extended family, friends, hangers on, business interests, etc.

It doesn't just go away when you retire but what does is your income. You're no longer getting x amount of millions a year but you and the people around you still want the same lifestyle.

Not everyone goes into punditry or becomes a manager so they just spend their lives spending money.

If you're conscious of that thought then you take double/triple/quadruple your salary, even if you're already currently rich, because you've got so much more of a buffer when you're retired and you've got a longer retirement than most.

It's very easy to understand and yet people get blocked from realising it by the old 'you're already rich, why do you need more money' jibes.

 

[Maluco]

Only 5 clubs (4 owned by PIF, 1 by the ministry of sport) have been signing high-profile players so far. And they are limited to 8 foreigners per club. I'm not sure the other clubs can afford these types of deals, seeing how they have stuck to mainly low-profile transfers from Romania, Poland, Belgium and leagues of similar stature.

Maybe the figure I read was 40 then, which would make more sense given that context.

 

[arnie_ni]

They're not idiots, they know that's why they're getting paid. But they - and you - can rationalize it any way they want.

They don't care about Saudi Arabia or why they are getting paid. They dont care if they being used to sportswash. They care about the money they are getting paid. I'm not rationalising anything.

Theyd play in Russia if the money was as good.

 

[arnie_ni]

Players are going to Saudi for one reason and that reason is money, they're no different from folks in the oil business who used to flock there to earn way more tax-free than they could elsewhere

I'm not sure what he's even arguing here. Of course the only reason they are going is the money.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Sky were showing Ronaldo's matches for free on Youtube when he went there. Sure someone will pick them up. I vaguely remember Sky having rights to the Chinese league at one point.

Yeah I’ll be shocked if no one picks those broadcasting rights up. Another increase to the subscription fees incoming.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

Great opportunity in the short term to get rid of some deadwood to Saudi.

 

[Red in STL]

I'm not sure what he's even arguing here. Of course the only reason they are going is the money.

Certain folks sometimes like to argue just for the sake of it

 

[maniak]

They don't care about Saudi Arabia or why they are getting paid. They dont care if they being used to sportswash. They care about the money they are getting paid. I'm not rationalising anything.

Theyd play in Russia if the money was as good.

So they're getting paid and the effect it has is that it improves the image of SA. I'm glad we agree. I lose respect for people like that, that was my point, no idea what you're trying to argue against.

 

[maniak]

Players are going to Saudi for one reason and that reason is money, they're no different from folks in the oil business who used to flock there to earn way more tax-free than they could elsewhere

Mate, I don't give a shit what the reason is. From SA perspective, they're using these players to improve their image. The players know it but they don't care because they're getting loads of cash. Am I allowed to not respect them?

Geez, I guess...

Certain folks sometimes like to argue just for the sake of it

 

[Red in STL]

Mate, I don't give a shit what the reason is. From SA perspective, they're using these players to improve their image. The players know it but they don't care because they're getting loads of cash. Am I allowed to not respect them?

Geez, I guess...

Evil is a strong word, but I certainly think less of people who accept money to improve the image of a criminal regime.

People are accepting Saudi money because it's just more money for them, they are not doing it to improve anyone's image even though that may be a consequence

 

[arnie_ni]

So they're getting paid and the effect it has is that it improves the image of SA. I'm glad we agree. I lose respect for people like that, that was my point, no idea what you're trying to argue against.

That they are doing it to improve Saudi Arabia image. They aren't. Its a by product of them following the money

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

Mate, I don't give a shit what the reason is. From SA perspective, they're using these players to improve their image. The players know it but they don't care because they're getting loads of cash. Am I allowed to not respect them?

Geez, I guess...

Some people simply can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everyone would give up what they believe in for a quick buck. We don't have to respect them for being selfish just so it makes them feel better about themselves.

People are justifying Henderson's decision because footballers have to retire earlier than most other professions, I'm sure he could have survived with the money he's already earned and if he ended up blowing it all who cares? Plenty of people get by with far less, so it's no excuse to turn his back on a community he previously publically supported. In hindsight it makes it seem like it was maybe just something he used to boost his own profile.

Anyway which Saudi team are people thinking of adopting for next season?

 

[tomaldinho1]

The vast majority of people live to what their earnings allow them to, wealth doesn't change that

I don't really see how you can argue against my point though, it is a choice.

People get sucked into the consumer culture that we live in, you could retire and live an extremely comfortable life on a year's salary for the average PL footballer (£3m a year so £1,563,822 in your bank) - the fact there are players out there worth £30m, £50, £200m+ who are still making decisions based on money is a bit tragic when you think about it.

 

[maniak]

People are accepting Saudi money because it's just more money for them, they are not doing it to improve anyone's image even though that may be a consequence

That they are doing it to improve Saudi Arabia image. They aren't. Its a by product of them following the money

Using that logic I can imagine messi saying "pepsi paid me to film a comercial, it was so cool, I got to travel and meet nice people... what, you're telling me pepsi's image improved because of this? wow what an unintended byproduct, who could've seen it coming... for me it was just about the filming and the experience. pepsi really got me there"

The fact they're helping improve SA's image is not some weird and unintended consequence, it's the point of the whole thing, so they know very well, like we all do, that accepting that money to play football comes hand in hand with cleaning the image of one of the most horrible regimes in the world these days.

Trying to deny this is a really strange hill to die on.

 

[arnie_ni]

Using that logic I can imagine messi saying "pepsi paid me to film a comercial, it was so cool, I got to travel and meet nice people... what, you're telling me pepsi's image improved because of this? wow what an unintended byproduct, who could've seen it coming... for me it was just about the filming and the experience. pepsi really got me there"

The fact they're helping improve SA's image is not some weird and unintended consequence, it's the point of the whole thing, so they know very well, like we all do, that accepting that money to play football comes hand in hand with cleaning the image of one of the most horrible regimes in the world these days.

Trying to deny this is a really strange hill to die on.

We aren't dying on any hill. We are simply saying they don't give a feck if they improve the image of SA or not. You said they are going there to improve the image of the country. The aren't. They are going for the money. If the image improves, it improves, these players don't care.

The only factor in their decision to move is the money. They might consider how it affects their own image but they won't ever consider how it affects SA image.