Saudis taking over Newcastle | Maybe not

[Gehrman]

Quran does not dictate that for "people who leave islam". Get your facts right and turn off fox for second

Is this from fox?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

"As of 2019, there are 12 countries that have the death sentence for apostasy,[31] whereas in 13 other countries apostasy is illegal and the government prescribes some form of punishment for apostasy including: torture, imprisonment, annulment of marriage, loss of inheritance rights or custody rights, amongst others.[32] Laws in various Muslim-majority countries prescribed for the apostate (Arabic: مرتد‎ murtadd) sentences ranging from execution to a prison term to no punishment. "

"
You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

— Quran 4:91
Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.

— Quran 9:66

He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.
— Quran 16:106

"
Saudi Arabia has no penal code, and defaults its law entirely to Sharia and its implementation to religious courts. The case law in Saudi Arabia, and consensus of its jurists is that Islamic law imposes the death penalty on apostates.[319]

Apostasy law is actively enforced in Saudi Arabia. For example, Saudi authorities charged Hamza Kashgari, a Saudi writer, in 2012 with apostasy based on comments he made on Twitter. He fled to Malaysia, where he was arrested and then extradited on request by Saudi Arabia to face charges.[320] Kashgari repented, upon which the courts ordered that he be placed in protective custody. Similarly, two Saudi Sunni Muslim citizens were arrested and charged with apostasy for adopting the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam.[321] As of May 2014, the two accused of apostasy had served two years in prison awaiting trial.[322]

In 2012, the US Department of State alleged that Saudi Arabia's school textbooks included chapters which justified the social exclusion and killing of apostates.[323]

In 2015, Ahmad Al Shamri was sentenced to death for apostasy.[324]

In January 2019, 18-year-old Rahaf Mohammed fled Saudi Arabia after having renounced Islam and being abused by her family. On her way to Australia, she was held by Thai authorities in Bangkok while her father tried to take her back, but Rahaf managed to use social media to attract significant attention to her case.[325] After diplomatic intervention, she was eventually granted asylum in Canada, where she arrived and settled soon after.[326]

IslamQA which provides, "information regarding Islam in accordance with the Salafi school of thought", (which in 2020 was listed as the world's most popular website on the topic of Islam according to Alexa),[327] has responded to a question, "What are the actions which, if a Muslim does them, he will be an apostate from Islam?" IslamQA answered saying, "a Muslim may apostatize from his religion by doing many acts that nullify Islam, which makes it permissible to shed his blood and seize his wealth".[328]

 

[stevoc]

What is the cinsequence of throwing a racial slur? If someone is a genuine believer of a certain religion (that does not infringe in your rights) then we shouldnt make fun of them. If we do, we shouldnt expect them to like us. If you wanna have a billion people not like you then go ahead and make fun of Islam.

I think that alone is a consequence bad enough. Alienating1/7th of the worlds population.

Race and religion are not comparable though, people can't choose their race. But they can choose their religion including the silly ones i just mentioned. Which was my point there should be no legal consequences to making fun of someones religion, because thats a slippery slope.

Not that i'm advocating that people should ridicule religions. I actually respect other people's religious beliefs. Just as i expect them to respect my thoughts on organised religion.

 

[Adisa]

Thread has been fecked.

 

[zenith]

I don't care a hoot about religion, but it would have made me very very disgusted if those owners got their blood soaked hands anywhere near my club.

Would rather have another sugar daddy club in the pool than having our name in the mud.

At least Newcastle have a heritage and a loyal fan base and they fill a wonderful stadium.

 

[tenpoless]

I hope They will never be United's owners now just so I don't have to read about people debating over moral, religion and lgbt rights everywhere. There are plenty of those on shitty Youtube comment sections already!

 

[shamans]

Is this from fox?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

"As of 2019, there are 12 countries that have the death sentence for apostasy,[31] whereas in 13 other countries apostasy is illegal and the government prescribes some form of punishment for apostasy including: torture, imprisonment, annulment of marriage, loss of inheritance rights or custody rights, amongst others.[32] Laws in various Muslim-majority countries prescribed for the apostate (Arabic: مرتد‎ murtadd) sentences ranging from execution to a prison term to no punishment. "

"
You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

— Quran 4:91
Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.

— Quran 9:66


"
Saudi Arabia has no penal code, and defaults its law entirely to Sharia and its implementation to religious courts. The case law in Saudi Arabia, and consensus of its jurists is that Islamic law imposes the death penalty on apostates.[319]

Apostasy law is actively enforced in Saudi Arabia. For example, Saudi authorities charged Hamza Kashgari, a Saudi writer, in 2012 with apostasy based on comments he made on Twitter. He fled to Malaysia, where he was arrested and then extradited on request by Saudi Arabia to face charges.[320] Kashgari repented, upon which the courts ordered that he be placed in protective custody. Similarly, two Saudi Sunni Muslim citizens were arrested and charged with apostasy for adopting the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam.[321] As of May 2014, the two accused of apostasy had served two years in prison awaiting trial.[322]

In 2012, the US Department of State alleged that Saudi Arabia's school textbooks included chapters which justified the social exclusion and killing of apostates.[323]

In 2015, Ahmad Al Shamri was sentenced to death for apostasy.[324]

In January 2019, 18-year-old Rahaf Mohammed fled Saudi Arabia after having renounced Islam and being abused by her family. On her way to Australia, she was held by Thai authorities in Bangkok while her father tried to take her back, but Rahaf managed to use social media to attract significant attention to her case.[325] After diplomatic intervention, she was eventually granted asylum in Canada, where she arrived and settled soon after.[326]

IslamQA which provides, "information regarding Islam in accordance with the Salafi school of thought", (which in 2020 was listed as the world's most popular website on the topic of Islam according to Alexa),[327] has responded to a question, "What are the actions which, if a Muslim does them, he will be an apostate from Islam?" IslamQA answered saying, "a Muslim may apostatize from his religion by doing many acts that nullify Islam, which makes it permissible to shed his blood and seize his wealth".[328]

Again all examples from Saudi Arabia. If you want to focus on the Quranic verses, google them in more depth than wikiIslam. I know you did your best there to google "apostosy killing in Islam" but again, use your mind a little. It's not that hard.

Race and religion are not comparable though, people can't choose their race. But they can choose their religion including the silly ones i just mentioned. Which was my point there should be no legal consequences to making fun of someones religion, because thats a slippery slope.

Not that i'm advocating that people should ridicule religions. I actually respect other people's religious beliefs. Just as i expect them to respect my thoughts on organised religion.

Actually people "choosing" religion is a very odd way to look at it as well. Your place of birth, your family and everything you go through as a kid shapes you into what you believe is right and wrong. Religion is more often than not tied to a persons identity.

There may not be "legal consequences" but don't expect a multicultural tolerant society from it. If you're going to be making fun of people's religions then yes there will be segregated pockets of immigrants who will not mix in with the "locals". If that's what you want to do, and openly ridicule a belief system then go for it.

Apologies MrMarcello.



I have never read the Quran, don’t intend to start, and didn’t say what was in it. I simply pointed out that Saudi Arabia (the country buying Newcastle) believe it is acceptable to kill people because of their religion. They are not fit to run an EPL club.

Well you quoted me on "Quran does not tell you to kill apostates".

 

[Mr Pigeon]

To everyone who's talking about religion in this football forum thread instead of the related threads in Current Events; will you please either feck off or shut the feck up. Ta.

 

[stevoc]

Actually people "choosing" religion is a very odd way to look at it as well. Your place of birth, your family and everything you go through as a kid shapes you into what you believe is right and wrong. Religion is more often than not tied to a persons identity.

It really isn't if you consider the religions i was talking about in my last two posts.

There may not be "legal consequences" but don't expect a multicultural tolerant society from it. If you're going to be making fun of people's religions then yes there will be segregated pockets of immigrants who will not mix in with the "locals". If that's what you want to do, and openly ridicule a belief system then go for it.

Doesn't seem like you are actually reading my posts mate.

 

[Gehrman]

Again all examples from Saudi Arabia. If you want to focus on the Quranic verses, google them in more depth than wikiIslam. I know you did your best there to google "apostosy killing in Islam" but again, use your mind a little. It's not that hard.




Actually people "choosing" religion is a very odd way to look at it as well. Your place of birth, your family and everything you go through as a kid shapes you into what you believe is right and wrong. Religion is more often than not tied to a persons identity.

There may not be "legal consequences" but don't expect a multicultural tolerant society from it. If you're going to be making fun of people's religions then yes there will be segregated pockets of immigrants who will not mix in with the "locals". If that's what you want to do, and openly ridicule a belief system then go for it.




Well you quoted me on "Quran does not tell you to kill apostates".

Saudi Arabia is important in the context here. As well as in all the other countries where there is punishment for leaving islam. But the poster above is right. This is for another thread.

 

[VorZakone]

Saudi Arabia is important in the context here. As well as in all the other countries where there is punishment for leaving islam. But the poster above is right. This is for another thread.

Thought @shamans was quoting himself.

 

[Gehrman]

Thought @shamans was quoting himself.

It does look a bit scizhophrenic

 

[Abdullah7]

I apologize for going off topic. Covid19 lock down can get too boring and I can't post in the general forum. My bad.

Ramadan Mubarak to my fellow red Muslims.

 

[arthurka]

Is there any chance that this will be stopped? Doesn't look like it.

Surely this will create too much of an imbalance if the wealth numbers are anything to go by... feels like the PL going to gradually turn into Ligue 1.

It will be irrelevant soon with all the oil dictator princes playing football manager.. Looks like Utd will be one of the few who fell through due to unfit owners.. If he was unfit what can be said about the other owners?

 

[Sad Chris]

This is why i suggest people spend more than half a minute to see what Quran actually states than going by surface level wiki searches thats not even the Quran

Even religious leaders can‘t agree on their interpretations of what the Quran states.

Seriously, you can‘t blindly believe in things but tell others that surface level wiki search doesn‘t cut it.

 

[pascell]

Good grief, what an absolute wreck of a thread.

 

[marukomu]

Fecking hell guys. Saudi Arabia might be buying Newcastle.

 

[horsechoker]

Fecking hell guys. Saudi Arabia might be buying Newcastle.

Typical Tories, selling whatever parts of the country they can.

 

[Sad Chris]

To everyone who's talking about religion in this football forum thread instead of the related threads in Current Events; will you please either feck off or shut the feck up. Ta.

How come religion is not to be discussed as part of this thread if it‘s a vital part of the discussion of the new ownership?

We talk about the owners money, goals, influence, moral stance and other things, but everything about religion is supposed to be shoved into the religion related thread.

I disagree with you on this call. Is religion part of this world or not? Does every person that discusses a skin colour or racism in the football forum get told to shut it and only post in the racism thread? Of course not, that would be ridiculous.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

How come religion is not to be discussed as part of this thread if it‘s a vital part of the discussion of the new ownership?

We talk about the owners money, goals, influence, moral stance and other things, but everything about religion is supposed to be shoved into the religion related thread.

I disagree with you on this call. Is religion part of this world or not? Does every person that discusses a skin colour or racism in the football forum get told to shut it and only post in the racism thread? Of course not, that would be ridiculous.

It's a discussion that has severely derailed the entire purpose of this thread because it's gone on for ages with little to show that it'll get resolved. So yeah, I offer you my previous two choices.

 

[MrPooni]

Not sure why I clicked on this thread expecting anything other than another bone dry "Islam isn't a race" debate between people who should know better by now and yet here I am. It's not 2009 anymore lads.

 

[Sad Chris]

It's a discussion that has severely derailed the entire purpose of this thread because it's gone on for ages with little to show that it'll get resolved. So yeah, I offer you my previous two choices.

I choose to feck off then. Good job

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Thread is great, keep going lads.

 

[Matst1]

It's ok if you've kept it to yourself or your circle of friends, family and such. It becomes illegal when you go all out through social media to get some attention as it would have bigger ramifications. It might cause an unrest in society which will lead to chaos and unstable environment where normal people need to socialize with each other. So the bigger the impact you might cause the bigger the calculation of your sentence will be. If your act was meant to influence a group of people to go against what the majority of the public value and have high regard for. It could be seen as an attempt to terrorize or destabilize the country by the government and if it was to be you will most certainly get more than a little slap on the hand.




Nonsense. I know a lot of non Sunnis that got free scholarships to the US, UK and other countries. They were each paid a good amount of salary every month for the whole period and ultimately came back and got government jobs. Matter fact once upon a time I was sharing a house with 5 different people from Saudi Arabia in Santa Barbara, California, and I was the only Sunni there. I've traveled to different parts of the US ever since and noticed the big number of non Sunnis under the Saudi's scholarship program. So unless you've experienced what you said I find it really hard to believe.




WOW

Calm down mate. So when the US got attacked by terrorists it was ok for them to infiltrate Afghanistan and push the whole country to war, civil war, poverty, chaos and genocide. If you replaced the word Afghanistan to Iraq you'd get to the same conclusion. what's your opinion of the UK's alliance to aid both of these wars?

However, when our southern border gets attacked by terrorists in which the Yemenis government couldn't contain. We are supposed to sit and watch!! Unless the Iranian funded militia group surrender the Saudi army will not back down.

Osama bin laden was created by the US. I think it's a common knowledge these days. He actually attacked Saudi Arabia 10 more times than the US and was telling his peers that al Saudi aren't Muslims anymore. He bombed our Ministry of Interior, Abqaiq oil refinery and a lot more if you want to look it up.

Every country has it share of bad apples.The IRA, Uni bomber, ETA and so on.




Thanks for correcting my grammar if you do it so often I might pay you by the hour. Keep it up pal.





Justice is the essence of Shari'a. Then, It diverts from the Quran, teachings of our prophet Mohamed ﷺ and the consensus of scholars. Every dispute you can think of can be found in these diversions. Islam was descended from Allah ﷻ to make sense and was followed in its early years by the poor and the weak. So how is it discriminatory? if it was it should have sided with the rich and noble to be a tool to deprive the poor but it wasn't. It was the complete opposite and that's one of many reasons that Islam makes sense and that's why more than 1.8 billion people in the world are Muslims.

You’re so brainwashed it’s unbelievable, you actually defend beheadings. Wow.

This post is full of bull sh!t. Deciding to not be a muslim “may lead to chaos and destabilize society where ”normal” people need to socialize”

Absolute crazy talk. Come into the 21st century, we’re doing great, we invented the wheel long ago now, come and see!

 

[Salt Bailly]

I'd imagine the wheel predates any form of organised religion.

The Wagon Wheel, on the other hand...

 

[Gehrman]

You’re so brainwashed it’s unbelievable, you actually defend beheadings. Wow.

This post is full of bull sh!t. Deciding to not be a muslim “may lead to chaos and destabilize society where ”normal” people need to socialize”

Absolute crazy talk. Come into the 21st century, we’re doing great, we invented the wheel long ago now, come and see!

Heavens forbid a woman should socialize with normal people without covering up her hair or wearing a burka.

 

[Gambit]

I hold the quran, bible and all other religious texts in the same level. They can all be used to wipe your backside if needs be during these loo roll deficient times. Onto football in this football forum. I actually feel like Newcastle deserve a good investment as opposed to the small clubs that won the oil dictator lottery. Means though that we haven't seen the peak of money in the football bubble for a while,

 

[The Red Thinker]

Can the mods step in and eradicate all talk of religion and race please? This is not the place for it.

 

[RoyH1]

The scary thing for me is that if the incredibly muted objections from the media and league lawmakers (I've seen a total of two articles) are anything to go by, once it is a fait accompli and effectively irreversible, it will quickly become a 'radical', fringe view that they aren't fit and proper owners or that anyone should care.

International assassination? Get over it already.
Hundreds of state-sponsored murders every year? You're just don't want competition for Champions League places.
Torturing and executing minors? Hey, your American owners are greasy capitalists just in it for the money, you can't talk.
Crucifying homosexuals? This investment is good for the league if we want to watch the best players and compete for the Champions League.
Activists, journalists, and even diplomats imprisoned for decades without trial? This is football, stop bringing politics into it.

Spot on.
The way people justify these kinds of owners just because they want to see their teams have more spending power sickens me. That's why I have stopped trying to argue with them

 

[hasanejaz88]

Plenty of glorious bigotry coming out in this thread, yet don't see a single warning being handed out for even taking the thread off topic

Islam has nothing to do with this takeover. If you want to comment on their atrocities, which are horrible, then go ahead and comment on it but bringing religion should have no place with it.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

Can the mods step in and eradicate all talk of religion and race please? This is not the place for it.

I feel that this IS the place to discuss whether the EPL should allow a regime that murders its citizens for wrong thought and lets men marry 9 year olds. It’s got nothing to do with race or religion. It’s humanity.
Newcastle have always been a team I’ve liked, if the become the PR arm of Saudi Arabia they will become very unpopular.

 

[UncleBob]

feck all is going to be done, they will pass the fit and proper test without any issues.

 

[SuperiorXI]

feck all is going to be done, they will pass the fit and proper test without any issues.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the purpose of that test to ensure clubs don't go bankrupt? As opposed to the morality of owners.

I suspect the former as more often than not people who are filthy rich - enough to by a club rich - are also cnuts.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Why though? Big compared to what? If it because they have a 50k stadium? I doubt they are even known outside of England. Newcastle fan TV has 21000 subscribers. That's pitiful and suggests to me they do not have a big fan base

Look mate it's really not worth arguing about.I live in Ireland and I would say they are behind United, Liverpool,Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds, Everton and Spurs.I have found plenty of Newcastle fans on my travels too.I believe they picked up a lot of new fans during the Keegan era.If you disagree thats fine.

 

[shamans]

Heavens forbid a woman should socialize with normal people without covering up her hair or wearing a burka.

Heavens forbid you learn more about middle east than forums or fox news.

 

[Gehrman]

Heavens forbid you learn more about middle east than forums or fox news.

I don't see fox news dude.

The hadith clearly opens up for acceptance of punishment and capital punishment for apostacy. ""It is not permissible to spill the blood of a Muslim except in three [instances]: A life for a life; a married person who commits adultery; and one who forsakes his religion and separates from the community."

 

[trims]

Is this from fox?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

"As of 2019, there are 12 countries that have the death sentence for apostasy,[31] whereas in 13 other countries apostasy is illegal and the government prescribes some form of punishment for apostasy including: torture, imprisonment, annulment of marriage, loss of inheritance rights or custody rights, amongst others.[32] Laws in various Muslim-majority countries prescribed for the apostate (Arabic: مرتد‎ murtadd) sentences ranging from execution to a prison term to no punishment. "

"
You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

— Quran 4:91
Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.

— Quran 9:66


"
Saudi Arabia has no penal code, and defaults its law entirely to Sharia and its implementation to religious courts. The case law in Saudi Arabia, and consensus of its jurists is that Islamic law imposes the death penalty on apostates.[319]

I know we're not meant to discuss politics or religion but there's a lot of misinformation about this here so it'll be my only post.

For the first verse quoted look at verses 4:88-4:91 as a whole. Verse 4.90 makes an exception for those people who leave and pose no threat. It also makes an exception for those who are part of a tribe, community or nation that have relations with the muslim community.

"Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, restraining their hearts at [the prospect of] fighting you.......so if they withdraw from you and do not fight you or offer you peace then Allah has not made a cause for you to fight them" 4:90

Verse 4:91 which you only quoted in part goes on to describe those who do not offer you peace and will look to fight you

"So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those - We have made for you against them a clear authorization." 4:91

Verses 9:66 is in relation to a specific group of people at the supposed time of Muhammed that followed him but were only pretending to be muslims ("Hypocrites") and it mentions punishment in the afterlife.

So actually there is nothing in the quran that states that apostasy is punishable by death.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

So actually there is nothing in the quran that states that apostasy is punishable by death.

Nobody is saying anything against race or religion. Simply that Saudi Arabia is a brutal murderous regime. It doesn’t matter what religion they follow. If they were a Christian country and killed people for the religious views they would be seen with the same distaste. Too many people get called racist because they despise their brutality, it’s about humanity not race/religion.

 

[Camilo]

Nobody is saying anything against race or religion. Simply that Saudi Arabia is a brutal murderous regime. It doesn’t matter what religion they follow. If they were a Christian country and killed people for the religious views they would be seen with the same distaste. Too many people get called racist because they despise their brutality, it’s about humanity not race/religion.

The Saudi's have got nothing on the misery the British have brought on the world though, that's for sure...

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Inigo Montoya]

The Saudi's have got nothing on the misery the British have brought on the world though, that's for sure...

Christ almighty.
Wondered when this would come up