I REALLY hope he is a bit part player next season. Jose did a number on us when he singled him out for that award...
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So don’t you think that our players lack stamina?
There’s more to fitness than having bulging muscles.
That's not what I meant. For some reason people lose their shit when players post pics of their work outs.
They lack intensity in their game as that's how we are trained and played. Imo intensity in the game and work rate depends on the manager we hire.
Also on their vacation there is only so much they can do, they will report to preseason in good condition and then coaches work with them on their fitness.
Up to a point. There's absolutely no doubt that our work rate dropped off under Jose, and that wouldn't have happened if he'd not wanted it.
Ole though? He rightly called out the players for their poor work rate at least once during the dismal run at the end of his first season, but was never able to do anything about it.
I have no doubt that ETH will demand a lot more but that doesn't mean anything unless the club backs him up by both providing better fitness staff and squashing the players who will inevitably moan about having to work hard.
True, but there have been previous instances of players bulking up excessively over the summer. Lukaku is the obvious example, but people familiar with Memphis in Holland reckoned that his arrival at United all muscular did him no good at all.
He doesn’t look stacked - he’s lean. His arms aren’t that of a body builder at all. His core looks great which is super important. He’s in brilliant shape - well done to him. No idea why he’s getting criticised for it.
Yeah, but in this instance our players are not bulked up. They are doing weights and looks in good shape, including young players.
On work rate, IMO it's always to do with coaches and how they set up. If we set up passively, our intensity and work rate will be low. Ole talked good but he couldn't implement what he wanted. Look at coaches and you see consistent pattern.
Under Van Gaal we were among top teams in distance covered, under Jose we were among the worst.
Chelsea under Jose were among the worst, Under Conte they were among the best.
Spurs under Nuno looked passive team, under Conte they were so aggressive.
Liverpool under Rodgers looked fine but same set of players went level up in intensity under Klopp in 2015-16.
Distance covered is just a small part of work rate as lot of things depends on intensity of play, number of sprints.
Also I'm not saying all our players are hard workers but when whole team looked so lethargic, it's hard to blame just individuals. Can't have excuse for players like Rashford, Shaw who just gave up and it was embarrassing to watch their efforts, but others put some effort but it was so unorganized team. One player presses, others don't, so the player who pressed just wasted effort as opponent player easily bypassed the only player who pressed.
Yup, agree with all that.
Re. the bolded, this is why I’m expecting the players ETH will put the most work into will be exactly those, rather than the likes of the theoretically more talented Rashford and Shaw. If it’s Dalot and Elanga and even McTominay who he favours I can see a lot of people getting upset.
Yeah true, talent alone is not enough. Hopefully ETH will be ruthless in benching and selling players.
Keane technically was on a different planet. First touch and passing, he could run the game from deep, timing of runs into the box, the engine to get up and down and the obvious aggression and leadership. Keane is one of Utds best ever. McT is the worst regular starter in the worst Utd team in my lifetime.
That entirely depends on the support he gets from the hierarchy.
I'm a lot more confident that the post-Woodward lot will be more likely to do so, but they are very much on probation as well. Not just with the fans either; what they need is some early success that will give the Glazers confidence to take a step back and let them get on with it.
McTominay has spent most of his time with us playing as a CM, it's just that he provides so little in possession (both when he himself has the ball or when a teammate has it) that his defensive attributes still ended up being more noticeable. He does have a good shot on him and when he gets going he is quite good at driving forward with the ball, but that's about it. A match has to be very open for those things to possibly start overshadowing things like passing, touch, vision and off-the-ball movement, which is why McTominay has tended to play well against Leeds since they were ridiculously open under Bielsa.
It was only when Rangnick came in that McTominay was actually played as a DM, with Fred moving into the CM role (and playing it much better than Scott ever had). Interestingly, that first month when Rangnick first played McTominay as a DM is the best run of form Scott has ever had for us IMO. I was starting to think that maybe I'd been harsh on him and he might have the ability to step up after all, but he dropped off badly after that and was poor for the rest of the season.
McTominay reminds me of Fellaini to some extent. It was always obvious that Fellaini was capable of having very good performances when given a specific role, whether it was an offensive or a defensive role. Simplify his game, get him to really focus on a particular aspect, and opposition teams simply couldn't handle him. But he was always terrible as a normal central midfielder as he simply didn't have some of the most important attributes of playing that position, but that's exactly how we played him most of the time and unsurprisingly he failed. I think McTominay is quite similar. Probably a slightly better central midfielder than Fellaini was (or maybe my expectations are just lower now) and I don't think he'd be as good in those specific roles as Fellaini, but I think that would be the best way to get the best out of either of them.
Bang on.
McTominay has some of the poorest awareness I’ve ever seen in a midfielder. Clueless positionally.
Yep positioning and awareness combined with poor short passing make him a bit of a rubbish CM.
When he has the ball in space and can drive forward he's ok, but he's just not good enough to sit deeper.
That's because he's gutless. I've never seen a more pointless player than him.
He's the only player I've seen who actively tries cut off his own passing lane so he doesn't get the ball and when the team loses possession he'll either be too far from play and he'll start strolling about or he'll just foul the opposing player if the play is near him.
One thing I noticed with some of out players, and Scott is the worst for it, is that when they go to challenge someone on the ball they will run at them full pelt with their back straight like Usain Bolt. Meaning they are easily bypassed and it takes them ages to turn around and get back in the game. They don't prepare for a challenge properly by slowing down a bit and lowering their centre of gravity, cutting off passing lanes and allowing them to respond to what the opposition is doing. It's like watching little kids play football sometimes.
McTominays biggest weaknesses are his defensive positioning and awareness. Unfortunately when he is played in a DM role, especially as a single pivot, those are also arguably the most important attributes. He just can’t play that role.
McTominay is a progressive player. Contrary to the Caf meme culture, he isn’t actually bad on the ball at all, and often pings in good passes to the feet of the forwards. More than that, he simply looks much more interested and switched on when operating in attacking areas, rather than the painful and inexcusable jogging back when defending (which needs to be addressed).
If we are looking to sign Eriksen and FDJ then I don’t really see a place for McTominay in the squad, since I would be keeping him away from a DM role. I can’t imagine we would sell him, since if nothing else he at least helps fill the homegrown quota.
McTominay is a progressive player. Contrary to the Caf meme culture, he isn’t actually bad on the ball at all, and often pings in good passes to the feet of the forwards. More than that, he simply looks much more interested and switched on when operating in attacking areas, rather than the painful and inexcusable jogging back when defending (which needs to be addressed).
If we are looking to sign Eriksen and FDJ then I don’t really see a place for McTominay in the squad, since I would be keeping him away from a DM role. I can’t imagine we would sell him, since if nothing else he at least helps fill the homegrown quota.
No he played mostly as a DM. Basically Fred and McTominay played closer towards the defence while Bruno was the AM. The reason why he appears as a CM is because Ole used the double pivot as a mobile double pivot. Basically during defense they are in the DM position and when we are in possession, they push with the ball all the way to the frontline. In other words, during defense mode they are a DM while in attacking mode they are a CM, so that the distance between all the frontline players are compact (e.g. keeping a high line). In comparison, a actual DM always stays closer to the main defence regardless of whether we are defending or attacking. This mobile double pivot worked very well during the 19/20 and 20/21 season due to Fred and McTominay's workrate and stamina.
Against teams with better midfields, McTominay basically had little chances of stopping the attacks as he is not very good at reading the game or positioning himself. He is better at tracking back as compared to sitting above the defence and reading the game. If you notice closely, he plays very well in games where we have more bodies in the central midfield area or when he is playing as a CM.
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He is a central midfielder, who doesn't want the ball.
Completely normal build for an athlete. Very little fat, not huge looking muscles. And I dont see opposition players out muscling him much, I saw Fellaini get out muscled more than I do McTominay. Thats not the issueAll those muscles and almost every opposition player is bullying and beating him physically on and for the ball
So true.We see pics like this every year with our lot yet they're gassed by the 60 minute mark.
Its certainly easier to get the blood pumping for a long time with a smaller build than a bodybuilder's, but McTominay's is average sized and lean. Goretzka for example is bigger and has no problem running around the pitch all game
Goretzka transformation is far from natural.
Come on mate. Are you sure you are not talking about Roy keane ?He's a nothing player who wouldn't be near the midfield of any elite club wanting to win trophies. I can only hope the midfield is sufficiently strengthened over the next couple transfer windows and he is sold sooner rather than later.
You will be surprised on how different the performances can be when a player is played in his natural position.
Get rid. We might even get a half decent fee for him
Overall I agree with you, but in my eyes, McTominay's frame is in the wide/big side, similar to Maguire more than Varane, he looks alright in the photo, not too bulky, and McTominay is known for his stamina and endurance, he used to run long distances in faster times (5k in under 17-16 mins).
Of course his issue was never physicality but skill and ability is what he lacks.
His attitude is absolutely spot on only if he could pass.
For me its more character and mentality. He's upped his numbers in terms of winning the ball to a decent amount for a DM, the problem is when we have the ball he doesnt show the same desire to influence the match. He isnt trying to get on the ball and looking to put us on the front foot when he has it. His passing numbers for a midfielder are still too low.
I like how being lean, dehydrated and having good lighting fools people into believing you're strong.
Most of a person (and athlete's) power is in the hips. Where are the glute, quad and hammie pictures?
Most of a person (and athlete's) power is in the hips. Where are the glute, quad and hammie pictures?
I like how being lean, dehydrated and having good lighting fools people into believing you're strong.
Most of a person (and athlete's) power is in the hips. Where are the glute, quad and hammie pictures?
I think he can play the Schone role alongside FDJ.
Schone had a fine technique and a good footballing brain. It's certainly possible he will be tried like that, another possibility is FDJ sitting deeper like he has for Holland (as a no 6) with Fred next to him. I know both options aren't satisfactory to a lot of posters, but those are the realistic lineups for next season.
I don't want to be a wum but honestly if this guy is anywhere near the pitch next season it's proof that the hierarchy still isn't taking this seriously. He's not good enough for a top 4 club. Not even for a top 6 club. Hell, not even for a top 10 club. Hell I'm struggling to believe he's a good midfielder for the premier league in general. Relegation level clubs have player like Kalvin Phillips playing for them, can you honestly see Mctominay starting over those lot? I have no idea how this bloke managed to scam his way into being a starter for 3 years, but then again that's more of a fault of our incompetence more than anything.
I know he's an academy lad and everything, and I know some of you like him but no he just shouldn't be here. Some of you think his "real position" is as a centre midfielder. How? He can't pass, can't maintain possession, can't dictate play, can't create, remarkably poor positional awareness, remarkably poor defensive awareness and the greatest offense of all: HE'S AFRAID OF THE BALL. The lad literally hides away from the fecking ball during build up play! How can you watch that and still suggest he should be anywhere on the pitch with a United jersey? Come on, you can't be serious unless you're a Liverpool agent.
My biggest dream for this summer is that we'll sign at least 4 midfielders so in occurence that one or two get injured, we'd still have the option of not seeing this guy ever play again.
Awful player. I'm sorry, but he just is.
I know he's an academy lad and everything, and I know some of you like him but no he just shouldn't be here. Some of you think his "real position" is as a centre midfielder. How? He can't pass, can't maintain possession, can't dictate play, can't create, remarkably poor positional awareness, remarkably poor defensive awareness and the greatest offense of all: HE'S AFRAID OF THE BALL. The lad literally hides away from the fecking ball during build up play! How can you watch that and still suggest he should be anywhere on the pitch with a United jersey? Come on, you can't be serious unless you're a Liverpool agent.
My biggest dream for this summer is that we'll sign at least 4 midfielders so in occurence that one or two get injured, we'd still have the option of not seeing this guy ever play again.
Awful player. I'm sorry, but he just is.
I feel you, but I disagree with the pre-emptive bit about "if he plays, it's on the hierarchy".
If he plays, it'll be ETH's choice.
It looks as if he would get a lot of minutes. I hope he would take on board all the coaching from Erik and improve his game. He will have to do well for us this season.
It's not an issue of how much muscle you have. It's how your mentality is and if you're fearless of other individuals. That's the problem. He's afraid and always hiding from the ball, and this signifies he isn't so strong mentally.All those muscles and almost every opposition player is bullying and beating him physically on and for the ball
The real reason is because Leeds are fecking shit and games against them are just glorified training sessions.
Mct isn't starting over Fred if we get another midfield starter in. He's not even good enough to start for Scotland there, I'll sooner player Garner over Mct, at least Garner had youth on his side. Championship sides who wants to fight for promotion wouldn't even start Mct, he's that bad.
I find it incredible this can be discerned from speculative journo nonsense and social media hype.
to me he's basically a modern Kevin Nolan, bad at pretty much everything as a midfielder but if you let him get forward he could probably get a goal now and again. like Nolan he should be playing for Bolton
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