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2023-24 Performances


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TheBatman

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Yes I would, I saw Gore play in pre season and he's a better Midfielder than Scott McTominay, he passes the eye test.
And you're a qualified coach are you?

When Scott McTominay scored a double against Spain he "passed the eye test". When Scott scored 7 EPL goals to save ten Hag his job, several times, that "passed the eye test".

It wasn't that long ago where people were saying that Joe Garner "passed the eye test".

I'm not entirely sure what "passing the eye test" means. Does it involve an optician?

People are sheep. Some clown started the "Scott McTominay hides from the ball" narrative and it spread like wildfire. Don't know how you can score 15 goals in top flight football whilst hiding from the ball.

There is no "passing the eye test". There's just parroting whatever everyone else is saying. Which is why the "McTominay hides from the ball" nonsense found such traction.

I'm just back from reading a post where someone thinks that this current England XI is stronger than the 2010 World Cup Spanish XI.

That is clinically insane.

That's the biggest reason for "passing the eye test" isn't real.
 
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DrRodo

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And you're a qualified coach are you?

When Scott McTominay scored a double against Spain he "passed the eye test". When Scott scored 7 EPL goals to save ten Hag his job, several times, that "passed the eye test".

It wasn't that long ago where people were saying that Joe Garner "passed the eye test".

I'm not entirely sure what "passing the eye test" means. Does it involve an optician?

People are sheep. Some clown started the "Scott McTominay hides from the ball" narrative and it spread like wildfire. Don't know how you can score 15 goals in top flight football whilst hiding from the ball.

There is no "passing the eye test". There's just parroting whatever everyone else is saying. Which is why the "McTominay hides from the ball" nonsense found such traction.
Also people thinks pre season games, where many players are putting a half arsed effort and many top players are resting from int tournaments, are as valid as official league games to judge a players quality... :rolleyes:
 

izak

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And you're a qualified coach are you?

When Scott McTominay scored a double against Spain he "passed the eye test". When Scott scored 7 EPL goals to save ten Hag his job, several times, that "passed the eye test".

It wasn't that long ago where people were saying that Joe Garner "passed the eye test".

I'm not entirely sure what "passing the eye test" means. Does it involve an optician?

People are sheep. Some clown started the "Scott McTominay hides from the ball" narrative and it spread like wildfire. Don't know how you can score 15 goals in top flight football whilst hiding from the ball.

There is no "passing the eye test". There's just parroting whatever everyone else is saying. Which is why the "McTominay hides from the ball" nonsense found such traction.
Scott is rubbish at being a Midfielder, he's not even at the level of Midfielders like Lee Catermole, Tucay or Junichi_Inamoto as I consider this guys actual good Midfielders.

We won't need his goals if he could the do the job of an actual Midfielder, Midfielder focus on building up play for the attacks to score.

If McTominay likes he can score hundreds goals a season that won't hide the fact that he's a shit at playing in Midfield, oh and yes he picks up awful positions when defense are in possession of the ball which translate to him him hiding from the ball, which other Midfielder do you know that has had 14 touches in an entire 90+ minutes?
 

TheRedHearted

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He needs to play next to Hojland if we actually had decent crossers of the ball. Imagine two wingers who could cross plus two left backs crossing it to Scott and Hojland
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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People are sheep. Some clown started the "Scott McTominay hides from the ball" narrative and it spread like wildfire. Don't know how you can score 15 goals in top flight football whilst hiding from the ball.
Making well-timed runs into the opposition's box is a completely different skill to making yourself available for receiving a pass in midfield.

Mctominay hiding from the ball isn't some myth that was invented on the caf. It's plain as day for everyone to see.

Having said that, the poster you're responding to isn't doing himself any favours with the hyperbole he's coming out with.
 

amolbhatia50k

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He is era’s Fellaini. Terrible at so many things you want if you aspire to be a top team but at the same has a good mentality, work ethic and knack for a great moment (these days in the box).
 

amolbhatia50k

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Making well-timed runs into the opposition's box is a completely different skill to making yourself available for receiving a pass in midfield.

Mctominay hiding from the ball isn't some myth that was invented on the caf. It's plain as day for everyone to see.

Having said that, the poster you're responding to isn't doing himself any favours with the hyperbole he's coming out with.
On this “hides from the ball”, it’s not really a big deal. McTominay is rubbish at passing and struggles in tight spaces - barring the odd flashy dribble, so I don’t mind him not wanting to be on the ball a lot. At least he knows his limitations. For me, I’ve never rated him and ideally dont think we need to build a team that includes someone with such serious technical deficiencies. At the same time we have a lot of rebuilding to do and as a super sub attacker / AM he could do a job over the next two years.
 

gajender

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On this “hides from the ball”, it’s not really a big deal. McTominay is rubbish at passing and struggles in tight spaces - barring the odd flashy dribble, so I don’t mind him not wanting to be on the ball a lot. At least he knows his limitations. For me, I’ve never rated him and ideally dont think we need to build a team that includes someone with such serious technical deficiencies. At the same time we have a lot of rebuilding to do and as a super sub attacker / AM he could do a job over the next two years.
If we get decent back up striker his role would become redundant with his stock relatively high it's the right time to move him on and not do anything stupid like giving him a new contract and getting stuck with him for foreseeable future that would simply mean we have learnt nothing from our past mistakes .
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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On this “hides from the ball”, it’s not really a big deal. McTominay is rubbish at passing and struggles in tight spaces - barring the odd flashy dribble, so I don’t mind him not wanting to be on the ball a lot. At least he knows his limitations. For me, I’ve never rated him and ideally dont think we need to build a team that includes someone with such serious technical deficiencies. At the same time we have a lot of rebuilding to do and as a super sub attacker / AM he could do a job over the next two years.
It is a big deal when you're losing the midfield battle in a game and one of your midfielders rarely ever makes himself available for a pass. There's many reasons why we've regressed this season but Mctominay starting more games than last season is one of them. When he's in midfield, it feels like we're playing with 10 men at times.

I've got no qualms with him being an impact sub from now until the end of the season, as he's clearly a goalscoring threat, but if our ambitions are higher than fighting for 5th then we need to move on from him in the summer.

I hope we drive a hard bargain for his transfer fee though as he will undoubtedly be a huge asset for any mid table PL club that doesn't mind surrendering possession in a lot of their games.
 

Remember the geese

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Where have you been?

We've been in a lot of trouble since SAF left.
Indeed we have. McTominay has been a starter for a fair chunk of that time. I'm not pinning it all on him obviously, but he isn't good enough for us. He can't play DM, so isn't a good deputy for Casemiro or a new signing there, he cannot deputise for Mainoo as he simply doesn't have the skill set, nor is he as good as Fernandes, Mount or any potential signing we would wish to make in that position either.
 

roonster09

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I know you’d think he’d scored 20 odd goals and been performing like peak Bryan Robson the way some go on about him.

Well given that he’s been starting alongside both of those that’s simply not true. The guy is a first choice regular starter. Features far too often to be anything else.
How many games did he start with Casemiro and Mainoo?
 

tenpoless

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If he hides from the ball and its an issue, why cant the coach just teach him where to be, so he will be in, most of the time, a safe spot to receive a pass and he just have to pass it elsewhere? Or back to the teammate that passed to him?

For a professional footballer I doubt that aspect cannot be taught. Its a simple pass and move. He is not great at controlling the ball but not terrible or awkward and slow like Fellaini.

As I said I can see him as a squad player and I think he will be alright with such a role. We shouldnt expect him to play a hollywood ball or to beat players. We just need him when our main midfielder needs to rest and we need a pair of fresh legs. He can be the Darron Gibson of Fergie days.
 

roonster09

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It is a big deal when you're losing the midfield battle in a game and one of your midfielders rarely ever makes himself available for a pass. There's many reasons why we've regressed this season but Mctominay starting more games than last season is one of them. When he's in midfield, it feels like we're playing with 10 men at times.
No it's not. If anything McT is the reason we are still in shout for CL football.

Injuries, EtH tactics, Rashford poor form, Bruno poor form, Casemiro being shit are the reasons why we are so bad.
 

Marcus

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No. No more mistakes, he's an average player and has to leave.
You wouldn't keep him for a sensible (not too high salary) contract? He is versatile, generally healthy, good in the air, scores goals, trains well and is not morally compromised. A bit of an O'Shea. Why not?
 

Marcus

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Yes I would, I saw Gore play in pre season and he's a better Midfielder than Scott McTominay, he passes the eye test.
I think pre-season is the key word. Didn't Lingard and Sancho look fantastic in pre-season?
 

Cantona’s Kung Fu Kick

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How many games did he start with Casemiro and Mainoo?
When he’s played well over 200 games for the first team and started the vast majority of those, you can’t claim he’s just a squad player.
How many games did he start with Casemiro and Mainoo?
Well he’s played a few, especially of late and more games than last year. When you’ve played over 200+ games for the first team and started the vast majority of those, you can’t claim he’s just a squad player. He’s not he’s a a regular starting midfielder. He’s played 25 times out of 28 possible games, admittedly some as a sub. That’s not a squad player.
 

DJ_21

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This example isn't great. Ake was really highly rated as a youngster but left because he couldn't get a starting berth at Chelsea. He left to join Bournemouth and had 3 pretty decent seasons there. He then re-joined a big club at 24/25 years of age.

I don't even rate Ake, but he was genuinely a highly rated youngster. McT on the other hand was a not too highly rated youth prospect brought into our starting eleven in bizarre circumstances by Jose.

Scott has done amazing to get where he has though, there's no denying that.
I don’t rate Ake either and think he’s average but Peps turned him into a top player. My point was if a manager can turn average players into decent ones then they’ve done a good job and they deserve a chance to stay at the club to fight for a place. I don’t think Mctominay good enough to start but this season he’s shown that he’s a useful squad player. Mctominay must have something because every single manager we’ve had from Mourinho have always played Mctominay, he’s been liked by them all. ETH though with the way he wants to play didn’t think he’d fit into his system so tried to sell him last summer but it didn’t plan out so we’ve kept him and he’s used him in like a b2b role. Other managers like Ole have tried to use him deep which isn’t where his strength lies… he likes getting into the box and making late runs which is why he’s getting some goals.
 

edgecutter

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This season isn't the norm for McTominay and I doubt we'll see him be so productive in scoring goals again.

He's also going to be 28 when the season starts again after the summer. If we want to cash in then now is the time. We need money for reinforcements next season especially in midfield. If we don't we will have to offer him a new contract and with murtough still in charge well end up with Scott being here well into his 30s on ludicrous money.
 

Hammondo

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No it's not. If anything McT is the reason we are still in shout for CL football.

Injuries, EtH tactics, Rashford poor form, Bruno poor form, Casemiro being shit are the reasons why we are so bad.
If he was half decent we might be in the top4, we have been crying for anything to partner casemiro, if Mainoo started the season we would probably be top 4. We don't need mctoms goals.
 

Hammondo

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If he hides from the ball and its an issue, why cant the coach just teach him where to be, so he will be in, most of the time, a safe spot to receive a pass and he just have to pass it elsewhere? Or back to the teammate that passed to him?

For a professional footballer I doubt that aspect cannot be taught. Its a simple pass and move. He is not great at controlling the ball but not terrible or awkward and slow like Fellaini.

As I said I can see him as a squad player and I think he will be alright with such a role. We shouldnt expect him to play a hollywood ball or to beat players. We just need him when our main midfielder needs to rest and we need a pair of fresh legs. He can be the Darron Gibson of Fergie days.
He's 28 FFS, bit late to be teaching him basic football.
 

Bobski

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Makes a difference to see some burgening positivity rather than the is a championship player drivel.

This season isn't the norm for McTominay and I doubt we'll see him be so productive in scoring goals again.

He's also going to be 28 when the season starts again after the summer. If we want to cash in then now is the time. We need money for reinforcements next season especially in midfield. If we don't we will have to offer him a new contract and with murtough still in charge well end up with Scott being here well into his 30s on ludicrous money.
He is currently on £60K per week by all reports, of the first team squad only kids like Garnacho and Mainoo are on less and that will obviously change for that pair very quickly. If he is happy being a valuable squad member I don't see a bump to 80-90 as a ridiculous wage for what he brings, especially in an environment where we are paying the likes of Mount £250K per week. Brandon Williams earns £65K per week from Utd by the way.

Really Scott needs to be thinking of his financial future, a move might be the best thing for him, secure that major contract, he is at an age when there might not be many more opportunities to get it.
 

Mike Smalling

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He is era’s Fellaini. Terrible at so many things you want if you aspire to be a top team but at the same has a good mentality, work ethic and knack for a great moment (these days in the box).
Very apt comparison. If he starts in midfield he's somehow both a big problem, but also has the potential so save us from the problems he is part of creating.

I'd keep him in the squad for next season, provided he is ok with being a squad player and impact sub, and if he can be kept on a reasonable wage. With our current midfield we can't go throwing everyone out the door at the same time, and at least he is professional, fit, athletic and motivated. If we got a really good offer for Casemiro from Saudi Arabia, I'd actually rather we take that than selling McTominay for £20m or something.
 

roonster09

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If he was half decent we might be in the top4, we have been crying for anything to partner casemiro, if Mainoo started the season we would probably be top 4. We don't need mctoms goals.
If Casemiro wasn't injured and shit, we wouldn't be in this position. Blaming a squad player for the league position is again a new low.
 

roonster09

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Well he’s played a few, especially of late and more games than last year. When you’ve played over 200+ games for the first team and started the vast majority of those, you can’t claim he’s just a squad player. He’s not he’s a a regular starting midfielder. He’s played 25 times out of 28 possible games, admittedly some as a sub. That’s not a squad player.
Maybe you should check what squad player mean. What he did in 2019 or 2020 doesn't matter. We are talking about 2023-24 season.

Now don't move the goal post. When Casemiro, Mainoo were fit and starting, how many times did McTominay start?
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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No it's not. If anything McT is the reason we are still in shout for CL football.
That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. Yes, he's popped up with important goals however the fact that he posseses very few traits that are required for playing central midfield has meant that his increased gametime has been to the detriment of the team overall.
 

roonster09

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That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. Yes, he's popped up with important goals however the fact that he posseses very few traits that are required for playing central midfield has meant that his increased gametime has been to the detriment of the team overall.
His increased game time is because Mainoo and Casemiro were injured for months, Armabat was shit and Eriksen was injured too.

If our first choice players weren't so shit and injury prone, McTominay wouldn't have played so much.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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His increased game time is because Mainoo and Casemiro were injured for months, Armabat was shit and Eriksen was injured too.

If our first choice players weren't so shit and injury prone, McTominay wouldn't have played so much.
There have been plenty of occasions this season where Eriksen has been sat on the bench whilst Mctominay starts. We'll probably see it again today.
 

Bertie Wooster

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He is era’s Fellaini. Terrible at so many things you want if you aspire to be a top team but at the same has a good mentality, work ethic and knack for a great moment (these days in the box).
Very apt comparison. If he starts in midfield he's somehow both a big problem, but also has the potential so save us from the problems he is part of creating.

I'd keep him in the squad for next season, provided he is ok with being a squad player and impact sub, and if he can be kept on a reasonable wage. With our current midfield we can't go throwing everyone out the door at the same time, and at least he is professional, fit, athletic and motivated. If we got a really good offer for Casemiro from Saudi Arabia, I'd actually rather we take that than selling McTominay for £20m or something.
Completely agree with both posts.

I've also made comparisons of him and Fellaini - neither offer much on the ball or as deeper midfielders, but are good attacking threats in and around the box and contribute goals as their main thing.

Leaving them quite tricky players to find a role for in a 'top' team, who wouldn't normally want that type of attacking midfielder in comparison to a more technical one. They're best suited for a Moyes type set up instead.

But I don't get the hatred of him that I'm reading in this thread. As the above posts say, he's almost always available and prepared to put in a shift, which already raises above him some. He also has a useful attribute - as a goalscoring attacking midfielder - that can be utilised. As a squad player, he's a useful enough performer.

He's not the main problem - the under performing (or injuries) of many of those with better technical attributes over the last decade is the much bigger one. Some of the frustration obviously stems from the fact that, due to that, we have to utilise McTominay more often than ideal - and not always, until recently, in his best role.

But I think it's harsh to get too wound up at him for that. He's been doing his part to the best of his (limited) ability. If a lot of others had been available as often, or consistently doing their part to their (potential higher) ability, then we'd be in a much stronger position.
 

MadDogg

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If he hides from the ball and its an issue, why cant the coach just teach him where to be, so he will be in, most of the time, a safe spot to receive a pass and he just have to pass it elsewhere? Or back to the teammate that passed to him?

For a professional footballer I doubt that aspect cannot be taught. Its a simple pass and move. He is not great at controlling the ball but not terrible or awkward and slow like Fellaini.

As I said I can see him as a squad player and I think he will be alright with such a role. We shouldnt expect him to play a hollywood ball or to beat players. We just need him when our main midfielder needs to rest and we need a pair of fresh legs. He can be the Darron Gibson of Fergie days.
He has always, throughout his entire career, got on the ball significantly less than all our other main midfielders. It didn't matter which position he was playing, whether it was as a 6 or an 8, his poor movement meant he simply received the ball less than other players when they played in the same position. Instead of moving into space, he has a very bad habit of moving around keeping an opposition player between him and the ball so that he isn't a passing option.

I always remember the time a few years ago that we passed the ball from Shaw on the left, through to Maguire, to Lindelof and finally to AWB on the right, each of them looking to pass it forward, and McTominay slowly jogged across the width of the field keeping an opposition player between him and the ball the entire time. It wasn't until the ball went to AWB that that player actively moved in a different direction and Scott found himself in a bit of space...only for him to quickly jog over behind a different opposition player instead so he still wasn't an option to pass to. If I didn't already shave my head I would have pulled my hair out that night. I think it was earlier this season that somebody on twitter uploaded another similar situation, but it's the kind of thing he does regularly.

Is Scott doing it deliberately because he doesn't trust himself to receive the ball? Is he doing it accidently because he just doesn't recognise where he should be moving to? Are our other players actively trying to avoid him because they don't trust him to receive the ball? Nobody knows for sure. Probably a bit of all of them. But the end result is the same - we've got a player in the heart of our team, the area of the pitch that is normally used to control the team around, who not only isn't capable of doing much when he gets on the ball, but he regularly makes it easier for the opposition to shut down our play by not providing himself as a passing option.

ETH has come in and actually seems to have done the opposite of what you said. Rather than train him to move into better positions to receive the ball, he seems to have decided that he wants Scott to get on the ball as little as possible. Throughout his career he's generally got on the ball about 20% less than our other midfielders (with some games where it was much worse), but last season under ETH his possession stats dropped even further and he he received the ball almost 40% less than the other player used in the same position (Casemiro). If that is the case and ETH's way of getting around Scott's lack of ability on the ball is to try to actively avoid him, that is obviously a very big problem in it's own right.

This season is a bit harder to judge, as his touches have dropped even further but Mount and Mainoo tend to also be almost as low when used in that position as well. So it could be an aspect of the system that that player does get on the ball significantly less than the other two midfielders, or it may just be that Mount didn't really get going and that Mainoo is an 18yo breaking into the team, so it's more understandable that they aren't quite up to speed yet compared to Scott who doesn't have those excuses.
 

Eugenius

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People shouldn't bash Scott. He's a valuable squad player. Not everyone needs to be world beaters.

Bash the players who we spent hundreds of millions on to keep him out of the team who haven't been as good as him.
 

Andycoleno9

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People shouldn't bash Scott. He's a valuable squad player. Not everyone needs to be world beaters.

Bash the players who we spent hundreds of millions on to keep him out of the team who haven't been as good as him.
Valuable player? He is championship quality midfielder. We are dominated by every team because of him.
 

Idxomer

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People who rate him deserve the shit football United has been serving for the last decade.
 

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It’s a bit like fighting fires. You’d rather have someone who’s proactive and stops them happening than someone’s who’s decent at putting them out.