Sevilla loss epitomizes everything that is currently wrong with United

[desmondisback]

I keep saying that it's obvious he's past his best and hasn't recovered properly since that Doctor thing at Chelsea and that awful season. He won the Europa league when there wasn't anyone any good in it (like there is this season). Like many others , I keep being told " stop moaning , we are second " and other such sound bites. I knew this moment would come eventually.

This performance and tactical nonsense (and subsequent denial in press conference) shows up the real problems with him. He couldn't even work out that when you are at home in Europe you have to find a way of getting the crowd involved , otherwise home advantage starts to become pointless. He's lost sight of the fact that if you get players too focused on the scoreboard and worried about conceding then it will affect their performance. He didn't know how to harness the momentum from that 1st half v Liverpool. Players were enjoying themselves and playing well - why not just let them carry on doing it? Instead he clipped their wings - shoving Rashford on the right is symbolic. He can't resist tinkering to try and feed his own ego - he's forgotten the art of not fixing something if it's not broken.

He's lost his mojo and he's just surviving on reputation now. It's not his fault , he's just past it. It happens. He's got just enough in him to delude us into thinking he can do it , but not enough to actually make it happen at this level. Just like his team has been this season , luring us (not me though) into believing that they can play and then disappointing us the next game.

The most damning thing is what he said (or didn't say ) in his press conference. He really has no idea. If he was reading this he would think we were drama queens for having the sheer audacity to suggest that United could have tried to attack Sevilla properly.

It's quite sad really. You can see it in his face. It's like watching Mohammed Ali talk in the early onset of his illness. He should just stay away from our club that's all and take his caution and negativity with him to a retirement home where it belongs. As a manager he's performing as bad as Sanchez and should be dropped (and not picked up again). I hate what he is doing to us and trying to make us into and I'm glad it seems so many here are finally seeing what I have seen for a long time.

United and Mou are chalk and cheese. We all knew it. It's just some of us understandably got sucked in by the lure of results and reputation.

 

[RedPnutz]

The biggest thing that is wrong with Man Utd are the fans that don’t realise that football is a game where victories are not guaranteed and that even on the track of positive progress it is possible for volatile performance levels and losses to occur.

 

[Giggs86]

https://hdmatches.com/2018/03/13/vi...evilla-full-match-highlights-13-march-2018/#5

you have it here, starts around 28:40. For a minute we are not able to move the ball to their half. Their 3 players are making soft pressing, basically just covering 40m line, Pogba and Matic walking around, no one using space to offer themselves, to end it with Valencia bad pass to Sanchez as he is not capable to give a good ball on that distance and Alexis not offering himself enough. Also, Pogba or Matic should be in position on the left of Valencia in the space to take that pass and defend if something goes wrong.

Also, when they take a ball, Pogba is not aware where is the player behind him. He did not even look in that direction, just standing on his position for 10 seconds, so ball easily past him. Of course, Smalling also too far of him even he is the only player he should control.

Everything wrong with our defensive setup and transition in 1 minute. They needed 8 seconds since interception to score, 6 touches, 50 yards. We moved it around for a minute without any idea what to do with the ball, and they even did not press hard.

Absolute shithousery. It is like the worst of Moyes, Lvg and Mourinho combined into 60 seconds. They should show that video at every training facility to show what you shouldn't do as a team. The fecking state of those players before the goal.

 

[BenjaminP]

If Martial leaves, I would be devastated. I can't think of any other time when a player leaving made me so sad. Probably C Ronaldo, but we all saw it coming and was planned a year ago before he actually left.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

4) The knee-jerk reactions from fans calling for Jose's head. Inability to accept the cons of his tactics while enjoying the pros. The fans who just can't accept we aren't a SAF team anymore, we aren't his United anymore. And how they cannot make peace with Jose's shortcomings given how success so far at United in terms of results and silverware. And how spoiled we are that we take just one bad result to turn on a manager we were celebrating just a few hours ago.

That's a broad generalisation which largely stems from a vague belief that the opposing opinion must necessarily not be well thought out and reasoned as one's own. Which is, frankly, presumptuous, ignorant and arrogant to boot.

Also Jose has not been successful at United so far. Top 6, 2nd, Europa league, FA cup etc. do not represent success at a giant football club. The club spends big to win big. Until that happens neither he nor any other manager would have succeeded.

And finally, Jose has never been celebrated at United due to the above reasons. A few results have been celebrated and improvements noted. And when he has failed he is getting criticised. That's actually how it works.

 

[sp_107]

Young getting injured and banned -> Shaw taking his spot, looking decent and improving -> Young gets instant slotted in instead of Shaw the moment his suspension ended.

McT plays decently -> Afro comes from injury, gets fit or barely fit to start, boom, instant slotted.

Rashford scores 2 -> Sanchez who didnt look great take over that left side position and Rashford being forced out on the right.

Martial being in decent form -> we buy Sanchez -> Martial instant being moved on the right,so Sanchez can take left. Regardless of your form if you arent a senior, player with experience you are fecked.

Sums up really well

 

[Slimcharles69]

I keep saying that it's obvious he's past his best and hasn't recovered properly since that Doctor thing at Chelsea and that awful season. He won the Europa league when there wasn't anyone any good in it (like there is this season). Like many others , I keep being told " stop moaning , we are second " and other such sound bites. I knew this moment would come eventually.

This performance and tactical nonsense (and subsequent denial in press conference) shows up the real problems with him. He couldn't even work out that when you are at home in Europe you have to find a way of getting the crowd involved , otherwise home advantage starts to become pointless. He's lost sight of the fact that if you get players too focused on the scoreboard and worried about conceding then it will affect their performance. He didn't know how to harness the momentum from that 1st half v Liverpool. Players were enjoying themselves and playing well - why not just let them carry on doing it? Instead he clipped their wings - shoving Rashford on the right is symbolic. He can't resist tinkering to try and feed his own ego - he's forgotten the art of not fixing something if it's not broken.

He's lost his mojo and he's just surviving on reputation now. It's not his fault , he's just past it. It happens. He's got just enough in him to delude us into thinking he can do it , but not enough to actually make it happen at this level. Just like his team has been this season , luring us (not me though) into believing that they can play and then disappointing us the next game.

The most damning thing is what he said (or didn't say ) in his press conference. He really has no idea. If he was reading this he would think we were drama queens for having the sheer audacity to suggest that United could have tried to attack Sevilla properly.

It's quite sad really. You can see it in his face. It's like watching Mohammed Ali talk in the early onset of his illness. He should just stay away from our club that's all and take his caution and negativity with him to a retirement home where it belongs. As a manager he's performing as bad as Sanchez and should be dropped (and not picked up again). I hate what he is doing to us and trying to make us into and I'm glad it seems so many here are finally seeing what I have seen for a long time.

United and Mou are chalk and cheese. We all knew it. It's just some of us understandably got sucked in by the lure of results and reputation.

Sad to say but I think you're right. That last season at Chelsea was just bizarre and really has me wondering whether we brought Mourinho in too late. At least he's not Moyes or lvg and he'll improve but he's been underwhelming so far.

 

[Roosney]

Sad to say but I think you're right. That last season at Chelsea was just bizarre and really has me wondering whether we brought Mourinho in too late. At least he's not Moyes or lvg and he'll improve but he's been underwhelming so far.

The worst part is that we are going backwards in terms of performances and cohesion. And some of the players are not giving their all. That's very worrying.

 

[Slimcharles69]

The worst part is that we are going backwards in terms of performances and cohesion. And some of the players are not giving their all. That's very worrying.

The thing is that you saw that his last season at Chelsea. The players just stopped playing for him when during his first stint there players would run through walls for him. I think that for whatever reason he just lost the ability to get his players up for it. His style does after all require a lot of tactical discipline which requires a more committed and cohesive team than normal to function at it's best, which we just don't see consistently.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The biggest thing that is wrong with Man Utd are the fans that don’t realise that football is a game where victories are not guaranteed and that even on the track of positive progress it is possible for volatile performance levels and losses to occur.

Whats funny is that this would make more sense if you were a Spurs fan. At least they are playing attractive football. They got dumped out by Juventus, yes, but after dominating them. Maybe it wouldnt be so fecking disappointing if we dominated Sevilla and then lost to a sucker punch.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

And with our fans.

 

[wolvored]

Ive said this before, Mous teams in the past have all had a super tight defence and a very good goalie. A winger or wide attacker or even 2 who is/are WC and a striker who is also WC. Goalie apart our defence is very ordinary. We havent got that WC winger, thats why Sanchez was bought, but hasnt shown up yet and maybe past it. Lukaku isnt a WC player either and although good, isnt in the same class as Drogba, for example. Thats his tactics and unless he can get these players in the summer his tactics wont work again in winning the PL and CL. Next season will be his last I think. Maybe the board will even think about a change in the summer.

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

The worst part is that we are going backwards in terms of performances and cohesion. And some of the players are not giving their all. That's very worrying.

I know you are disappointed after Tuesday, I am too, but why making things up?

We are definitely not going backwards, in all possible football categories we improved in terms of last season, except obviously we cannot win Europa League. It's quite funny to read that we lack cohesion and spirit after we won against Chelsea, Liverpool and C.Palace in the last two weeks.

We fecked up, it was a bad game, it happens. In all clubs. It didn't helped that we had just one training session after Liverpool, and comments from Jose were, well standard Jose, but they also didn't help.

I agree with second sentence, but I think that just one player is in question, Pogba. The problem with the rest is not that they are not giving their all, is that they don't have enough quality.

 

[Treble]

It's amaizing that so few posts emphasize a glaring issue with this United team: it doesn't work hard enough. Sevilla players run more and looked fitter. You can't dominate games without being fit enough.

 

[Woodzy]

We 100% needed Alexis Sanchez.

We also needed Alexis Sanchez to play like Alexis Sanchez, which hasn’t happened since his first few games.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It's amaizing that so few posts emphasize a glaring issue with this United team: it doesn't work hard enough. Sevilla players run more and looked fitter. You can't dominate games without being fit enough.

Not surprising when they failed to turn up against Valencia and lost pretty tamely.Obvious they were playing for the game against us.

We gave everything against Liverpool in a game the fans would demand we go all out to win.

Not saying we weren't poor but fitness had feck all to do with it.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

We 100% needed Alexis Sanchez.

We also needed Alexis Sanchez to play like Alexis Sanchez, which hasn’t happened since his first few games.

Point is, when did Alexis last look like Alexis?

 

[RedPnutz]

Whats funny is that this would make more sense if you were a Spurs fan. At least they are playing attractive football. They got dumped out by Juventus, yes, but after dominating them. Maybe it wouldnt be so fecking disappointing if we dominated Sevilla and then lost to a sucker punch.

This has little to do with attractive or ugly Football. All I am saying is you win some you lose some.

 

[Varun]

We 100% needed Alexis Sanchez.

We also needed Alexis Sanchez to play like Alexis Sanchez, which hasn’t happened since his first few games.

Not at all if the plan was for him to play on the left where we already had Martial and Rashford. Mahrez would have been a much better acquisition.

 

[artursk]

Frankly speaking, I don't understand why it's so difficult to see that Mourinho employed the same tactical solutions against Seville as he did against Liverpool. They key thing was to beat the high press, that's why he went long - against both teams. Fellaini didn't play to sustain possession in the midfield, that was never Mourinho's plan. Fellaini was there to receive the long balls and support Lukaku in this way. The problem was that United didn't get lucky this time, partially due to NZonzi having a great game.

It's beyond me that the same people who applaud Mourinho's tactics against Liverpool are so eager to criticise the same approach against Seville. Feels like there is zero understanding about tactics and all people care about is results.

Mourinho has been consistent with his style for years. Always doing the same thing - nullify opposition strengths first, think about your own strengths after. Either you like this approach or you don't. But don't give me this nonsense about talking how great Mourinho is after wins and how poor he is after losses if he is doing exactly the same thing in both but simply gets lucky in one of the two.

 

[Himannv]

Weren’t you all heralding your manager as a tactical genius after Liverpool & Palace? Funny how all that can change in a matter of hours.

Face it you’ll win some and lose some. City were so sure of a quadruple (lol) but Wigan has other ideas. It happens. Move on.

Umm, I'm not sure why you quoted my post to say this. Did you mean to quote someone else?

I said:

"I'm one of the few fans that would say that I'm not too unhappy about us losing this. I don't think we have any chance of winning the Champions League this season anyway, so I don't think the result is a big cause for concern. I'm disappointed by the way we played and I think Jose got the starting lineup wrong. Time to learn from this and improve, but the question is, can we?"

I said Jose got the starting lineup wrong, nothing about whether he's a tactical genius or not. He got it right against Liverpool IMO, as did Spurs when they played against them and employed the same tactics.

I agree that we will win some and lose some, and I even said I'm not too unhappy about us losing this because I don't expect us to win the Champions league this year anyway. So whether we exit the competition at the Round of 16 stage or the QF stage is neither here nor there.

I'm not happy about how we played and the starting lineup, but I'm happy enough to move on. My only hope is that we learn from this performance and do better or do things differently when faced with similar situations.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

This annoyed me at the time. Still does. We weren’t even trying to attack and got caught out. Schoolboy quality when we get pressed.

 

[NotATroll]

Whats funny is that this would make more sense if you were a Spurs fan. At least they are playing attractive football. They got dumped out by Juventus, yes, but after dominating them.

In Turin, Juve were dominated because they went deep to defend the 2-0. And at Wembley, they waited for Spurs to stop pressing. When Spurs sat off around the hour mark, they made their move.

It's beyond me that the same people who applaud Mourinho's tactics against Liverpool are so eager to criticise the same approach against Seville. Feels like there is zero understanding about tactics and all people care about is results.

Don't be silly, mate. Everyone here would love it if we played naive adventurous football and lost every match 4-3. It's the heavy metal Man United way!

 

[Jaxa]

Jose doesn't adapt. He's never adapted. Adaptation was one of Fergie's biggest strengths. The writing is on the wall for Jose. His methods look outdated and polarizing. He's gone backwards as a coach.

Basically this, especially the Fergie part in adapting, he adapted when Chelsea came along, he then adapted when City came along, Mourinho on the other hand is that stubborn and narcissistic there's just absolutely no way his style cannot fail, well welcome to 2018 Jose, you're being found out by the majority

 

[Bestietom]

We need a few players Yes, but the team need proper coaching more than anything IMO.

 

[Varun]

Frankly speaking, I don't understand why it's so difficult to see that Mourinho employed the same tactical solutions against Seville as he did against Liverpool. They key thing was to beat the high press, that's why he went long - against both teams. Fellaini didn't play to sustain possession in the midfield, that was never Mourinho's plan. Fellaini was there to receive the long balls and support Lukaku in this way. The problem was that United didn't get lucky this time, partially due to NZonzi having a great game.

It's beyond me that the same people who applaud Mourinho's tactics against Liverpool are so eager to criticise the same approach against Seville. Feels like there is zero understanding about tactics and all people care about is results.

Mourinho has been consistent with his style for years. Always doing the same thing - nullify opposition strengths first, think about your own strengths after. Either you like this approach or you don't. But don't give me this nonsense about talking how great Mourinho is after wins and how poor he is after losses if he is doing exactly the same thing in both but simply gets lucky in one of the two.

You're unable to understand why taking the same approach vs a high quality rival in a league game and an inferior team in a must win KO game isn't a great idea?

 

[Bestietom]

You're unable to understand why taking the same approach vs a high quality rival in a league game and an inferior team in a must win KO game isn't a great idea?

Against Liverpool we played not to Lose. This is a game we had to Win.

 

[King Kana]

I keep saying that it's obvious he's past his best and hasn't recovered properly since that Doctor thing at Chelsea and that awful season. He won the Europa league when there wasn't anyone any good in it (like there is this season). Like many others , I keep being told " stop moaning , we are second " and other such sound bites. I knew this moment would come eventually.

This performance and tactical nonsense (and subsequent denial in press conference) shows up the real problems with him. He couldn't even work out that when you are at home in Europe you have to find a way of getting the crowd involved , otherwise home advantage starts to become pointless. He's lost sight of the fact that if you get players too focused on the scoreboard and worried about conceding then it will affect their performance. He didn't know how to harness the momentum from that 1st half v Liverpool. Players were enjoying themselves and playing well - why not just let them carry on doing it? Instead he clipped their wings - shoving Rashford on the right is symbolic. He can't resist tinkering to try and feed his own ego - he's forgotten the art of not fixing something if it's not broken.

He's lost his mojo and he's just surviving on reputation now. It's not his fault , he's just past it. It happens. He's got just enough in him to delude us into thinking he can do it , but not enough to actually make it happen at this level. Just like his team has been this season , luring us (not me though) into believing that they can play and then disappointing us the next game.

The most damning thing is what he said (or didn't say ) in his press conference. He really has no idea. If he was reading this he would think we were drama queens for having the sheer audacity to suggest that United could have tried to attack Sevilla properly.

It's quite sad really. You can see it in his face. It's like watching Mohammed Ali talk in the early onset of his illness. He should just stay away from our club that's all and take his caution and negativity with him to a retirement home where it belongs. As a manager he's performing as bad as Sanchez and should be dropped (and not picked up again). I hate what he is doing to us and trying to make us into and I'm glad it seems so many here are finally seeing what I have seen for a long time.

United and Mou are chalk and cheese. We all knew it. It's just some of us understandably got sucked in by the lure of results and reputation.

Lost his mojo while winning you 2 pots last year, outscoring Spurs,

The biggest thing that is wrong with Man Utd are the fans that don’t realise that football is a game where victories are not guaranteed and that even on the track of positive progress it is possible for volatile performance levels and losses to occur.

Spot on. It’s what I have been saying. Seems like all reasoning has gone out the window with some fans. Due to City storming it and obviously the disappointment of getting knocked out early in the CL. People need to admit the squad isn’t good enough to win the CL on any level at the minute. Ship out ya deadwood, bring in better place and see where you are.

 

[girish]

Also, when they take a ball, Pogba is not aware where is the player behind him.

That's one of his weak points. Carrick and Scholes scan their surroundings all the time. And that's how they know where to pass even before they receive the ball. I think there was a clip of Damien Duff speaking about this, on twitter somewhere. And for a supposed World-class midfielder, it's just not good enough.