I agree. I'm not sure why it's still tolerated for adults to believe in nonsense. I don't mean legally, I mean in the sense that I'm surprised someone who believes in things written in holy scriptures aren't mocked constantly. Sadly religion can simultaneously capture intelligent people who should know better and prey upon those who don't.
Shooting at Charlie Hebdo HQ in Paris
- Thread starter rednev
- Start date
it was al qaeda in yemen
Highly organized and trained individuals who carried this out. As right it is to stand up for the freedom of the press, undoubtedly this attack will be taken into account in the immediate future sadly. It will be extremely difficult to put lives at risk.
I feel sorry for the genuine, peaceful Muslims who live in the West. The more and more things like this happen, the more they will be hated by everyone regardless of whether they agree with what ISIS is doing or not. I'm pretty sure there won't be any "#illridewithyou" trending on twitter in France today.
I seen the video of the policeman being shot on Facebook just there. Makes me feel sick to my stomach. He was clearly not going to be able to do anything about them after he had been shot and was struggling on the ground. Then to just point blank shoot him in the head like that while he is pleading for his life just shows what heartless fecking animals they are. I can never understand how anybody can be so ruthless.
Unfortunately with the frequency this sort of thing has been happening the last few weeks, things are going to get a hell of a lot worse. RIP to all the dead.
I seen the video of the policeman being shot on Facebook just there. Makes me feel sick to my stomach. He was clearly not going to be able to do anything about them after he had been shot and was struggling on the ground. Then to just point blank shoot him in the head like that while he is pleading for his life just shows what heartless fecking animals they are. I can never understand how anybody can be so ruthless.
Unfortunately with the frequency this sort of thing has been happening the last few weeks, things are going to get a hell of a lot worse. RIP to all the dead.
This is might be the wrong place for this but I have no idea where to put it.
So
While I have some little disagreements with what Harris say's (The 20% of Muslims think this or that is never helping anyone's cause and only hurting his point)I do think he's correct in saying that a this present moment Islam is the most dangerous religion, jihad and paradise is the most dangerous ideology in the world today,
But as Hitchens said
'All religions are wrong in the same way in that the privilege faith over reason but their all not equally bad in the same way all the time'
As for an incoming Enlightenment in Islam is it even possible. The Quran claims to be the perfect book(I've seen posters on here agree that it is indeed the perfect book) how can you criticize what some people believe is perfect, the answer to not only life but the final answer, anything after this is false, this is God's final words.
Something Harris points out is that as awful as Christianity is (And it really is awful) it has a big let off in the form of that hippy Jesus. Before Jesus comes along Christianity is essentially full of well evil with Jesus in the picture it's legal in religious terms to simply ignore everything before Jesus. It makes having an Enlightenment or the criticism easier although it took a couple hundred years to get somewhat civil.
This is a fair point.
Weren't you embarrassed enough the last time you complained about gay marriage on here?I think only Western liberals like yourself, Pogue, regard gay marriage as a great societal advance.To most people around the world, it's somewhere between a joke and an anathema. Who's to say your opinion is better than theirs?
The objectification of its own values by Western liberalism is always amusing. The mercurial affectations of Western elites are assumed to represent the end point of human moral and intellectual progress, and other, older viewpoints arrogantly dismissed.
It's true to say that the West has been virtually the sole source of the great intellectual and material change in the world since the 17th century. Other cultures have contributed little. But that applies to all non-Western societies, not solely to the Islamic world.
Older, less progressive ideals and practices are quite rightly arrogantly dismissed.
A few years ago I remember watching a gruesome execution done by the Shebab in Somali against Somali people, since that day I have lost any courage or curiosity to try watching any video similar were people are killed on live footage. It's just too much for me.
I actually agree with Randall. I'm probably one of the biggest advocates on here for free speech. I've stated many times my opposition to hate speech laws and the like. Obviously the cartoonists should have the unquestioned right to do what they want and the government has a responsibility to protect their right. But if I knew to a high degree of certainty that publishing a cartoon would lead to people dying, I don't think I could do it. Who am I to say that my political principles are more important than other people's lives?
I'm a comic book fan and met George Wolinski in Porto a few years ago, I'm really shocked with these news. People getting killed because of cartoons, it's hard to get your head around it.
People could resign from that publisher, I don't think anyone was being forced to work there,
I'm not sure of your point
I think only Western liberals like yourself, Pogue, regard gay marriage as a great societal advance.
The objectification of its own values by Western liberalism is always amusing. The mercurial affectations of Western elites are assumed to represent the end point of human moral and intellectual progress, and other, older viewpoints arrogantly dismissed.
It's true to say that the West has been virtually the sole source of the great intellectual and material change in the world since the 17th century. Other cultures have contributed little. But that applies to all non-Western societies, not solely to the Islamic world.
Yeah, bring back widow strangling to the tribes of Borneo, after all who are we to judge them?
Presumably the people endangered would work for/with you, or you meant someone random would be endagered?
What? Feck off.I think only Western liberals like yourself, Pogue, regard gay marriage as a great societal advance.
The objectification of its own values by Western liberalism is always amusing.
Religion is the most evil force in the world at the moment and been for a long time.
Anyone. I would have trouble putting my political positions above another person's life.
Nearly seven hours on from the attack and no word of any confrontation with police or the like [at least to my knowledge], they could be well out of the country by now.
Until they start getting tough on this issue instead of just palming it off and playing dumb or offering weak condolences then it's extremely hard to have sympathy for them.
You could argue that because they've done nothing wrong and because they are indisputably normal, decent, hard working and innocent people that they shouldn't have to do something about the naughty children at the back of the class but in this instance I really think they do.
Until the average Muslim starts taking a stance against ISIS and the rest of these idiots then no amount of apologies and condolences are gonna wash with the outsiders who the extremists target. This'll only lead to a massive backlash against them which nobody wants to see.
He's a troll and/or bigot.
Absolutely horrible. We've already had many publications and broadcasters censor themselves for fear of something like this happening, now that it's occurred it'll only get worse. I hope for something of the sort that @MikeUpNorth mentioned earlier in response, but fear is understandably going to be riding high right now.
When I was kid, I had heard someone predict that there will be a big war someday between all Islamic countries and rest of the world. Never understood it fully then. Day-by-day, it is looking more like a possibility to me. Shame if religion will trigger 3rd world war in 21st century.
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What a plonker
When i thought it couldn't get more embarassingUnbelievable that someone from the west which is so intellectual can spout such crap.I think only Western liberals like yourself, Pogue, regard gay marriage as a great societal advance.
The objectification of its own values by Western liberalism is always amusing. The mercurial affectations of Western elites are assumed to represent the end point of human moral and intellectual progress, and other, older viewpoints arrogantly dismissed.
It's true to say that the West has been virtually the sole source of the great intellectual and material change in the world since the 17th century. Other cultures have contributed little. But that applies to all non-Western societies, not solely to the Islamic world.
I'd argue that publishing cartoons were a deliberately provocative act while the others aren't.
They wouldn't.
Certainly but this in turn will radicalize societies like what happened in post 9/11 America and result in needless loss of Muslim lives that had nothing to do with these cowardly acts in the first place. When the French people recover from shock and if these idiots haven't been caught they are going to turn on someone, my guess is the vast immigrant populace and in the next election they will vote for someone who promises to take action. The direction these issues are taking are scary yo say the least...
Whatever prejudice straight conservatives have against gay marriage is their perogative and they should feel free to express them. But the fact that gay men and women are allowed to voluntarily marry each other is as clear a sign of progress as people like @Will Absolute being able to express an unpopular opinion without fear of state sanction (or being shot dead by religious extremists)
Unfortunately, the Islamic world is behind the curve in both regards. Hence the point about a lack of progress on important issues like free speech and equal rights is entirely valid.
Unfortunately, the Islamic world is behind the curve in both regards. Hence the point about a lack of progress on important issues like free speech and equal rights is entirely valid.
Anyone who puts their location as "Southern Ireland" has to be a bit of an arsehole to be fair. What mental posts you quoted.
Hmmmm, let me think. By this logic, you would agree with PK movie getting banned in India, right?
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Nope, not at all. PK was never going to incite violent reaction the way the cartoons did. Unfortunately, the current right wing nut jobs are trying their best to change that.
Then take it from someone who doesn't enjoy much of it- it is worth every drop of blood spilt in it's defence! The reason being that if you give terrorists an in inch they will take a mile, inch by inch. These zealots, obviously the tiny proportion that possesses extreme views, do not want to coexist with anyone other than those they can dominate. Maybe I'm being too sensational but the way I see it is that we are going to be having these attacks for much longer, in one form or another, because if it's not comics then it will be another harebrained reason.
America has been radicalized?
Doesn't help Muslims at all when their self-appointed 'community leaders' come out with shite like this -
(For those not bothered to listen, it's a Dr. Ali Salem of the Islamic Cultural Centre in Dublin basically warning that he will pursue legal action against anyone daring to tweet or publish the cartoons).
(For those not bothered to listen, it's a Dr. Ali Salem of the Islamic Cultural Centre in Dublin basically warning that he will pursue legal action against anyone daring to tweet or publish the cartoons).
No, why do you link Secularism with nationalism. These two are not complementary. A secularist can be an internationalist and oppose nationalism.So what are you on about?
It's clear that you want to play the apologist for Islamic barbarism. But you won't con me with it.
I would guess they are holed up in the suburbs, waiting anxiously for a visit from the police/special forces at which point there will be a final showdown. If that visit doesn't happen tonight or early tomorrow, you can imagine them going out and launching another attack. If I were a Parisian, I would feel very on edge on the Metro tomorrow rush hour.
But that right there is the problem. The fact cartoons can incite violent reaction is not in any way an acceptable situation. If those cartoons aren't created because of that reason, no one would be challenging that situation and it becomes the norm.