Should Rooney retire from England?

[MG]

A badge of honour?!

Why? What is so honourable about having an agenda against the national team? Does it make you a better United fan?

Of course it doesn't. Some people seem to think it does, but it honestly doesn't. I consider myself a United fan and an England fan. Yes, United are more important to me but I do still support England.

That doesn't make me a lesser United fan though, the two are completely separate. It's ridiculous how some people feel that if you're an English United fan you need to dislike England to properly support United, of course you don't.

The only thing that makes you a better United fan is if you support your team through thick and thin, good times and bad, which most of us do.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A badge of honour?!

Why? What is so honourable about having an agenda against the national team? Does it make you a better United fan?

It is what it is.

If you weren't aware that there are a section of United fans (and no, not just foreign ones) who actively dislike the English national team then you've just learned something.

I suspect you knew this all along, though.

 

[londonredmaniac]

Of course it doesn't. Some people seem to think it does, but it honestly doesn't. I consider myself a United fan and an England fan. Yes, United are more important to me but I do still support England.

Who has said it makes you a better fan?

That doesn't make me a lesser United fan though, the two are completely separate. It's ridiculous how some people feel you need to dislike England to properly support United, of course you don't.

Who is saying that? Each to their own

The only thing that makes you a better United fan is if you support your team through thick and thin, good times and bad, which most of us do.

The last bit all I can say is...well said.

 

[Boss]

It is what it is.

If you weren't aware that there are a section of United fans (and no, not just foreign ones) who actively dislike the English national team then you've just learned something.

I suspect you knew this all along, though.

I'm well aware and that is influencing this poll to the point of making it pointless.

Let's face it, it's not about the FA incident and the results would have been similar before sweargate.

 

[Mockney]

Ok. Firstly, I'm not making any assumptions about you as person, just as a poster. And yes there make be people who get more wound up but not in the silly groundhog day way you do. The fact that people who have met you say you are a lovely bloke just makes all the nonsense on here even more frustrating.

It's the internet. I argue on here. It's fun. And it somehow doesn't seem to illicit the same kind of responses from you when the Pogues of this world do it, often far more agressively...not that I have any problem with that, and I PM with Pogue about our arguments jovially...yet why it's considered frustrating and irksome to you when I do it, I've no idea.

You're world cup performance was the stuff of caf lore I'm afraid this is not the last you'll hear of it, so I maybe not having a minor flip out when it is mentioned might stop the frequency of the mentions.

I'm sure it's not. But then I don't personally consider myself to have 'flipped' out, so I find that just as frustrating as you do the fact I argue...My main contribution during that WC was 3 video diary 10 things where I commented on the England games right after them displaying absolutely no pent up rage, agression or meltdown nonsense, but that is oddly and rather annoyingly airbrushed from Caf lore. All I did was return to England to find threads like this full of rather ignorant (of the goings on there) fans waffling on about Ing-er-land fans and the like and using it all as a soap box for their United>England agendas....just like in here. The difference being that I had been out there, and am an England fan, and didn't just go "oh well" and didn't take too kindly to rubbish being posted and thus spread about for everyone to assume, just as all the match going United fans on here don't take kindly to shit being posted about them...But, meltdown? Fine. Bangerang. Everyone needs their pigeonhole.

And nobody is ignoring the points you are making, maybe they just don't see your words as the silver bullets you do? And so what if they are ignoring you, who are you anyway?

Eh?...I couldn't give a feck if they're ignoring me. Or not seeing my points as valid. But criticising my supposed personality isn't ignoring me is it? It's the opposite in fact. And telling me I shouldn't respond to it or bring it up is rather pot, kettle black considering you're a culprit of doing just that....As I, to be fair, am of you. But you're basically just saying (or seem to be) "people who try and cuss you down with bizarre personality assumptions or old supposed meltdown jokes, are less annoying to me as your posts addressing the matter"...Which, is silly.

Mods are the posters you banter with all the time, and I know I have actually not infracted people that desrved infractions because I was at some point disagreeing with them and it'd look bad. And as for being exempt? Are you sure?

Whenever a RAWK mod posts something ridiculous people laugh at the standard of moderation...I see things like this (and the noodle post about how he hated the fickleness of England fans, so was going to stop supporting England, that instigated my supposed WC Meltdown) as the same kind of thing.

And this thread is a massive leap and kinda silly IMO but the question of the FA using Wayne as an example might have crossed the lads mind as well as mine so who knows.

Possibly, but then so might the question of what a knife feels like going into someone's testicles...The chances of acting on it are minimal for such a relatively unimportant thing.

So the FA cup comparison is a bit nonsensical.

I'm not quite sure how...Those two sentences seem completely unrelated...However it's not just the notion of what the FA should and shouldn't be blamed for, and what should be blamed for it, but also the notion of how minor this whole escapade is in perspective. The Rio banning would've been a better example. This is simply someone being banned for 2 matches (possibly appealed to 1) over a stupid matter. It's just such a daft opinion that he could consider anything regarding the national team over it, let alone that he should.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Of course it doesn't. Some people seem to think it does, but it honestly doesn't. I consider myself a United fan and an England fan. Yes, United are more important to me but I do still support England.

That doesn't make me a lesser United fan though, the two are completely separate. It's ridiculous how some people feel that if you're an English United fan you need to dislike England to properly support United, of course you don't.

The only thing that makes you a better United fan is if you support your team through thick and thin, good times and bad, which most of us do.

Exactly.

Which is why it's odd that the people who feel most strongly about this are so quick to label English United fans who don't get behind the English team as "pathetic" or "petty". Each to their own, surely?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm well aware and that is influencing this poll to the point of making it pointless.

Let's face it, it's not about the FA incident and the results would have been similar before sweargate.

Absolutely. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a poll about any United player quitting international football ended up strongly in favour of them focussing exclusively on playing for United. I don't think the poll was intended as a serious piece of research though.

 

[MG]

Exactly.

Which is why it's odd that the people who feel most strongly about this are so quick to label English United fans who don't get behind the English team as "pathetic". Each to their own, surely?

I don't have a problem with people not supporting the team because they have no interest in international football, I just think it's a bit pathetic if English United fans who do have an interest in internatinonal football actively dislike the England national side.

There's a difference between simply not supporting and indifference to actively disliking.

 

[Mockney]

If you weren't aware that there are a section of United fans (and no, not just foreign ones) who actively dislike the English national team then you've just learned something.

I suspect you knew this all along, though.

You admitted the other day that you had assumed far more United fans disliked England based on what you read on the Caf.

Using the Caf to assess what "United fans" think is rather pointless...Not to mention the fact that those with the most extreme opinions, usually voice them the loudest and most frequently on the internet.

Of course there are a section who actively dislike England, but it's no where near as big or as potent an ideology as many make out.

 

[BaldwinLegend]

So? Why is your opinion more valid than theirs? Do your bit and disagree. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a bunch of people that, for their own reasons, don't much like the England team.

You're in a lucky position to be able to say all that to an England supporter though.

No one tells you you're not 'a real United fan' for supporting your national team as some do on here if you support England.

I've seen too many threads on here where people who've retained an interest in the England team try in vain to point out some rational arguments to those against while the responses they get back have questioned their credentials as a United fan and been deliberately provocative to boot. Happens time and time again on here and frankly I can't be arsed any more and I know from PMs that others have stopped enjoying the place as a result too.

 

[londonredmaniac]

I don't have a problem with people not supporting the team because they have no interest in international football, I just think it's a bit pathetic if English United fans who do have an interest in internatinonal football actively dislike the England national side.

There's a difference between simply not supporting and indifference to actively disliking.

Years of listening to the bile that England fans spew about United, United players and a number of isolated incidents, including the treatment of United fans in the past just tipped it for some.

Pathetic? Not really.

Just choice.

 

[Spoony]

I don't know, that doesn't seem like an answer to me. I don't understand why you have to love your country, nor do I understand why you aren't allowed to hate the football team. It's not how I am personally as I love my national team, but if people feel that way - and there are lots of them - then who are we to say they're pathetic? At least in the absence of any compelling argument that they should love/support/etc their country, or shouldn't actively dislike them.

Patriotism or national pride aren't a one size fits all thing. Some people will have their own reasons, possibly no more logical than the demand that they either support their national team or don't actively dislike them.

Good post that. I suppose they same people don't harp on about supporting your local club, but there you go. Not everyone cares about the national team, not everyone supports their local club....not everyone loves the Queen. It's like that, it's just the way it is. 'Yeah but you should or else you're pathetic!!!' is pretty pathetic reasoning in itself.


Ras bloodclot.

 

[moses]

A badge of honour?!

Why? What is so honourable about having an agenda against the national team? Does it make you a better United fan?

No, but it has been there. I'm Irish Boss, just watching. But with an objective eye I have been wondering since 1988 why the England players put up with so much negative attention. The shirt seems to be quite a burden for many, which is sad. International football can be great.

 

[BaldwinLegend]

Absolutely. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a poll about any United player quitting international football ended up strongly in favour of them focussing exclusively on playing for United. I don't think the poll was intended as a serious piece of research though.

Start one for Anderson then. I guarantee the result will be overwhelmingly in favour of him continuing playing for Brazil. I'd guess the reason is the glamour it brings to United having a current Brazil player in the team, which says a lot for the quality of response such polls invite.

 

[Mockney]

Exactly.

Which is why it's odd that the people who feel most strongly about this are so quick to label English United fans who don't get behind the English team as "pathetic" or "petty". Each to their own, surely?

Indeed. However those who do that aren't questioning the posters loyalty/support of United by their dismissal of the England team...Something which often IS questioned by the reverse. Hence why you often get such long and laborious arguments.

It's rarely those who "couldn't give a feck" either is it...It's the ones who go out of their way to be deliberately anti and consistently agendad with it...Which is irksome, regardless of whether it's "right or wrong"...If someone is telling you the team you support are shit and they hate them because X, Y, Z...then they're surely going to expect some kind of rebutal?

The anti-England lot are given far more support on this board than the pro IMO (you rarely hear the pro lot being defended so staunchly whenever an anti says "yeah, but England fans are pathetic and fickle twats" do you?), hence why posters like Me, Brad, Heap, Boss etc end up posting so much about it, and then end up being called obsessed, or mental, or in meltdown or whatever....it's silly.

 

[londonredmaniac]

You're in a lucky position to be able to say all that to an England supporter though.

No one tells you you're not 'a real United fan' for supporting your national team as some do on here if you support England.

I've seen too many threads on here where people who've retained an interest in the England team try in vain to point out some rational arguments to those against while the responses they get back have questioned their credentials as a United fan and been deliberately provocative to boot. Happens time and time again on here and frankly I can't be arsed any more and I know from PMs that others have stopped enjoying the place as a result too.

Anyone questioning a United fans commitment based on their support for England is a fecking clown.

End of story.

 

[phelans shorts]

I don't have a problem with people not supporting the team because they have no interest in international football, I just think it's a bit pathetic if English United fans who do have an interest in internatinonal football actively dislike the England national side.

There's a difference between simply not supporting and indifference to actively disliking.

But as you say it doesn't make a difference to how much they support united.

Let me put it this way, it often starts as indifference, soon the ridiculousness of the whole fanfare surrounding it gets that annoying that there is a dislike for the circus it becomes, which leads to a dislike of the heart of the thing, basically the national team.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Start one for Anderson then. I guarantee the result will be overwhelmingly in favour of him continuing playing for Brazil. I'd guess the reason is the glamour it brings to United having a current Brazil player in the team, which says a lot for the quality of response such polls invite.

heh he'd have to get picked for Brazil more than a few times for it to really matter, though.

 

[londonredmaniac]

Start one for Anderson then. I guarantee the result will be overwhelmingly in favour of him continuing playing for Brazil. I'd guess the reason is the glamour it brings to United having a current Brazil player in the team, which says a lot for the quality of response such polls invite.

The governing body of his country aren't singling him out though.

Also I'd be quite happy for him not to on the basis that he's not flying half way across the world for a pointless friendly.

 

[MG]

Years of listening to the bile that England fans spew about United, United players and a number of isolated incidents, including the treatment of United fans in the past just tipped it for some.

I've explained that I don't think these reasons are particularly good ones, and enough to justify not supporting your national team.

Of course a lot of England fans won't like United... they support opposition teams who are jealous of United's success, and who have lost to them many times. It's to be expected. A lot of them are complete idiots as well, we all know that. A hell of a lot of football fans of every team in the country these days are idiots. Those are the fans though, not the team. The team should be separate from the fans. Gawd know United have plenty of scumbag fans who chant things none of us on here would condone, but we all still love United.

 

[Brophs]

You're in a lucky position to be able to say all that to an England supporter though.

No one tells you you're not 'a real United fan' for supporting your national team as some do on here if you support England.

I've seen too many threads on here where people who've retained an interest in the England team try in vain to point out some rational arguments to those against while the responses they get back have questioned their credentials as a United fan and been deliberately provocative to boot. Happens time and time again on here and frankly I can't be arsed any more and I know from PMs that others have stopped enjoying the place as a result too.

Well I don't really frequent the England threads that much so I suppose I wouldn't know. And saying someone isn't a United fan because the support England is daft. But what can you do?

It's not really our place to take sides in an argument (other than personally as posters).

 

[Spoony]

Indeed. However those who do that aren't questioning the posters loyalty/support of United by their dismissal of the England team...Something which often IS questioned by the reverse. Hence why you often get such long and laborious arguments.

You can support both, who's said otherwise, Mockney? whether you're a full on England fan or simply apathetic... how does that equate to loving or disliking one more than the other(national side or club)? I don't think anyone's questioned England United-fans' love for United. Unless that is, I'm mistake. But what you can't do is make people feel the way you do.

 

[Sultan]

A lot of things posted on the Caf are "spastic and retarded"

Makes for best posters and threads.

opcorn smiley:

 

[moses]

It's the internet. I argue on here. It's fun. And it somehow doesn't seem to illicit the same kind of responses from you when the Pogues of this world do it, often far more agressively...not that I have any problem with that, and I PM with Pogue about our arguments jovially...yet why it's considered frustrating and irksome to you when I do it, I've no idea.

Well then just focus on the fun?

And when Pogue insults me personally I'm sure our way of talking will change.

I'm sure it's not. But then I don't personally consider myself to have 'flipped' out, so I find that just as frustrating as you do the fact I argue...My main contribution during that WC was 3 video diary 10 things where I commented on the England games right after them displaying absolutely no pent up rage, agression or meltdown nonsense, but that is oddly and rather annoyingly airbrushed from Caf lore. All I did was return to England to find threads like this full of rather ignorant (of the goings on there) fans waffling on about Ing-er-land fans and the like and using it all as a soap box for their United>England agendas....just like in here. The difference being that I had been out there, and am an England fan, and didn't just go "oh well" and didn't take too kindly to rubbish being posted and thus spread about for everyone to assume, just as all the match going United fans on here don't take kindly to shit being posted about them...But, meltdown? Fine. Bangerang. Everyone needs their pigeonhole.

Mockney, the irony of you accusing people using this site as a soap box is too much.

Eh?...I couldn't give a feck if they're ignoring me. Or not seeing my points as valid. But criticising my supposed personality isn't ignoring me is it? It's the opposite in fact. And telling me I shouldn't respond to it or bring it up is rather pot, kettle black considering you're a culprit of doing just that....As I, to be fair, am of you. But you're basically just saying (or seem to be) "people who try and cuss you down with bizarre personality assumptions or old supposed meltdown jokes, are less annoying to me as your posts addressing the matter"...Which, is silly.

on the bold - Well then don't bring it up, I was responding to you.

On the deduction - I'm not saying anything of the sort, I'm saying what happened happened, people laughed and will laugh again, so get over it

Whenever a RAWK mod posts something ridiculous people laugh at the standard of moderation...I see things like this (and the noodle post about how he hated the fickleness of England fans, so was going to stop supporting England, that instigated my supposed WC Meltdown) as the same kind of thing.

No RAWK mods are ridiculed for allowing people wish death on opposition players and for fueling conspiracy theories.

Possibly, but then so might the question of what a knife feels like going into someone's testicles...The chances of acting on it are minimal for such a relatively unimportant thing.

The reality is that the chances of you knowing Wayne Rooney's mind above anyone esle are slim.

I'm not quite sure how...Those two sentences seem completely unrelated...However it's not just the notion of what the FA should and shouldn't be blamed for, and what should be blamed for it, but also the notion of how minor this whole escapade is in perspective. The Rio banning would've been a better example. This is simply someone being banned for 2 matches (possibly appealed to 1) over a stupid matter. It's just such a daft opinion that he could consider anything regarding the national team over it, let alone that he should.

And I've said it was silly, so what that's the crux of my point, not every sillyness on the forum has to be ironed out by you.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

A lot of things posted on the Caf are "spastic and retarded"

Makes for best posters and threads.

opcorn smiley:

Indeed, Sults. This is quite possibly my best ever thread...even if I'm personally more partial to my fight sex one.

 

[londonredmaniac]

I've explained that I don't think these reasons are particularly good ones, and enough to justify not supporting your national team.

Of course a lot of England fans won't like United... they support opposition teams who are jealous of United's success, and who have lost to them many times. It's to be expected. A lot of them are complete idiots as well, we all know that. A hell of a lot of football fans of every team in the country these days are idiots. Those are the fans though, not the team. The team should be separate from the fans. Gawd know United have plenty of scumbag fans who chant things none of us on here would condone, but we all still love United.

No i understand you don't think they are good enough reasons...for others they are. tis just the way it is.

I'm different. I always wanted England to do well, but I am, primarily an Ireland supporter. Hearing the anti Ireland shite I have done over the years going to watch England...it was just enough for me.

You might think that's pathetic. With all due respect mate (and I do actually mean with all respect to you) I don't actually care what you or anyone else thinks about it. It's how I actually feel about the matter. To say anythign else or act a different way would be just...well...not represent how I feel.

My brother is different. He is a big England fan...but it makes him no less of a United fan than I.

 

[Commadus]

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

 

[MG]

No i understand you don't think they are good enough reasons...for others they are. tis just the way it is.

I'm different. I always wanted England to do well, but I am, primarily an Ireland supporter. Hearing the anti Ireland shite I have done over the years going to watch England...it was just enough for me.

You might think that's pathetic. With all due respect mate (and I do actually mean with all respect to you) I don't actually care what you or anyone else thinks about it. It's how I actually feel about the matter. To say anythign else or act a different way would be just...well...not represent how I feel.

My brother is different. He is a big England fan...but it makes him no less of a United fan than I.

Are you Irish or English?

 

[BaldwinLegend]

The governing body of his country aren't singling him out though.

Do you really believe they are? Why on earth would they?

 

[Mockney]

I've seen too many threads on here where people who've retained an interest in the England team try in vain to point out some rational arguments to those against while the responses they get back have questioned their credentials as a United fan and been deliberately provocative to boot. Happens time and time again on here ....

I agree, it really does. And the neutral fans generally end up defending the Anti-brigade...(Not in a nasty Anti-England way per say, but you rarely hear someone out of the conversation chip in with "you can't call England fans pathetic" in the way you constantly hear "you can't call people who hate the England team pathetic")

And yet me and Brad are labelled Drama Queens for being one of the few who do bother to fight the vanguard ...And if the moses' of this world find us irksome for arguing against the mods, then I'd propose we feel exactly the same in this situation (except our opponents aren't being consistently infracted for it.).

 

[Randall Flagg]

The only thing that makes you a better United fan is if you support your team through thick and thin, good times and bad, which most of us do.

The vast majority of us have never once experienced bad times with the club to be fair.

So I would reserve that opinion until if and when we ever have a real bad patch in future

 

[Randall Flagg]

Indeed, Sults. This is quite possibly my best ever thread...even if I'm personally more partial to my fight sex one.

Oh yeah. That thread changed me

 

[Rado_N]

I agree, it really does. And the neutral fans generally end up defending the Anti-brigade...(Not in a nasty Anti-England way per say, but you rarely hear someone out of the conversation chip in with "you can't call England fans pathetic" in the way you constantly hear "you can't call people who hate the England team pathetic")

And yet me and Brad are labelled Drama Queens for being one of the few who do bother to fight the vanguard ...And if the moses' of this world find us irksome for arguing against the mods, then I'd propose we feel exactly the same in this situation....Except our opponents aren't being consistently infracted for it.

I don't give a stuff about the England team as you know but I've also backed you up on this issue in the past. It makes no sense, absolutely none, to suggest that following England sullies somebody's support of United. It's an argument that has no basis in reality whatsoever.

 

[Rado_N]

The vast majority of us have never once experienced bad times with the club to be fair.

So I would reserve that opinion until if and when we ever have a real bad patch in future

We only won that poxy league cup thing last year, hard times man.

 

[londonredmaniac]

Are you Irish or English?

Born in England...both folks Irish. I support Ireland, it's where all my family/all my history is.

 

[Sultan]

I never voted in this poll.

Just putting that out there.

 

[Mockney]

You can support both, who's said otherwise, Mockney? whether you're a full on England fan or simply apathetic... how does that equate to loving or disliking one more than the other(national side or club)? I don't think anyone's questioned England United-fans' love for United. Unless that is, I'm mistake. But what you can't do is make people feel the way you do.

Many posters have insinuated that the United>England mentality makes you a better fan, or is the "right minded mentality". No posters have ever insinuated that the United=England mentality does or is.

Again, you (and most other people with no particular side) usually single out me, or Baldwin or Brad or Boss for this type of response..You're not having a go, but telling us not to foist our opinions etc ... but hardly anyone ever does this to the "feck England, It's United all the way for me, England are cnuts" lot....And this is my exact point.

It's almost latent. We're defending our team and our support, and yet we're the ones who are assumed to be being righteous....eh?

 

[MG]

The vast majority of us have never once experienced bad times with the club to be fair.

So I would reserve that opinion until if and when we ever have a real bad patch in future

Certainly my generation haven't. I was born in '90 and have mainly just experienced successful times as a United supporter. We've all gone through dips in form and disappointing seasons but no, most of us haven't fully experienced the barron years. And a lot of those that have were young when they happened.

My dad's generation were early 20s when United were relegated and were pretty rubbish in the mid 70s, most of us haven't experienced that level yet. But if we do maybe it'll sort out the true United supporters from the fair weather fans. I think we'd lose a lot but personally I think a sizeable amount of the younger generations would stay with United.

 

[noodlehair]

Mokney Meltdown

 

[Mockney]

noodlespaz