One thing I think that's hard to change is our movement off the ball is inconsistent because many of our players are used to a slower system where the goal was to constantly move the ball side to side and wait for a gap to open up through ball retention. Jose wants quicker speed of thought and for penetrating balls to be made and more runs made to get in behind the defense. I believe we're much better than last year, but we're still not where we need to be to sustain a title challenge.
Signs of Progress | Mourinho vs Van Gaal
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One thing I noticed is that we play a hell of a lot more through balls than we did under LVG.
If only we had a centre-forwards capable of scoring a brace, and what a waste of a transfer fee Ibra was.
We don't have a clue what either team will look like in 3 years. Making long term predictions based on the last few matches is silly.
No way LvG would've changed the formation so soon in the game. He would've kept it the same until the 70th minute and brought on Fellaini for the long balls. Resulting in a 0-0.
we are very hard to beat, I have to admit, had we not capitulated after 30 seconds against Chelsea, that would have likely been a draw as well
This is something I've really enjoyed as opposed to playing sidewards to the wings and pinging balls via crosses, especially as we haven't really had a tall target man with aerial presence. It's nice to finally play through teams now. But our productivity on the flanks still needs to improve to bring that variation in attack.
Make that eight points
We are miles better than last year.
We are genuinely better defensively as opposed to a cowardly way of playing to protect the defence. Along the same lines he is getting way more out of the players in defense except Shaw.
We are controlling games with an attacking intent as opposed to passing it among ourselves. We are camped around the opposition box looking to score. For example away to stoke second half they barely ventured into our half.
That leads to the other thing we are doing like Fergie days. Much improved ball recovery. Pressuring the opposition as they are clearing their lines with defensive clearances which leads us to recovering the ball more easily and starting another wave of attack.
Part of that then is the number of goals scored in last ten minutes which is back to Fergie days.
My major issue is his treatment of Martial. The other issue is our attacking play is not quite good enough in some games but that's fine. That will come with time and tweaks.
We are genuinely better defensively as opposed to a cowardly way of playing to protect the defence. Along the same lines he is getting way more out of the players in defense except Shaw.
We are controlling games with an attacking intent as opposed to passing it among ourselves. We are camped around the opposition box looking to score. For example away to stoke second half they barely ventured into our half.
That leads to the other thing we are doing like Fergie days. Much improved ball recovery. Pressuring the opposition as they are clearing their lines with defensive clearances which leads us to recovering the ball more easily and starting another wave of attack.
Part of that then is the number of goals scored in last ten minutes which is back to Fergie days.
My major issue is his treatment of Martial. The other issue is our attacking play is not quite good enough in some games but that's fine. That will come with time and tweaks.
Perfect analogy.
A massive difference between the two is in game management. Mourinho reacts and makes changes when he sees something isn't working, today being a classic example.
He won't sit around jotting rubbish in his notepad waiting for us to fall behind, he'll do something. He's not afraid to make subs at half time if something isn't working and those subs don't tend to involve irrelevantly subbing full backs.
You can tell Mourinho watches the game and follows it with scrutiny. With Louis it was like he closed his eyes(or mostly wrote in his notepad) ignoring the glaring shit storm unfolding in front of him.
I member the semi against Everton where they had us on the ropes and he was doing absolutely nothing to change things. Luckily we managed to win.
He won't sit around jotting rubbish in his notepad waiting for us to fall behind, he'll do something. He's not afraid to make subs at half time if something isn't working and those subs don't tend to involve irrelevantly subbing full backs.
You can tell Mourinho watches the game and follows it with scrutiny. With Louis it was like he closed his eyes(or mostly wrote in his notepad) ignoring the glaring shit storm unfolding in front of him.
I member the semi against Everton where they had us on the ropes and he was doing absolutely nothing to change things. Luckily we managed to win.
We got 9 out of 9 points over Xmas this season compared to Van Gaal ruining Xmas last year.
Changing formation during the game yesterday being another. Under Van Gaal we would have kept the same formation and bored our way through the game.
Changing formation during the game yesterday being another. Under Van Gaal we would have kept the same formation and bored our way through the game.
Van Gaal absolutely killed the mood around Old Trafford and i think it's only just recovering now. The fans are starting to believe and get excited about where we are going again. I don't care about points or stat comparisons, more what i see and hear when I'm at the game.
Moyes did terribly but van Gaal for two years was the worst thing that's happened to us in recent times.
Moyes did terribly but van Gaal for two years was the worst thing that's happened to us in recent times.
Amazing transformation of the defense by Mourinho. Now De Gea doesn't have to make many saves, and in some matches we could do with a scarecrow.
Which game was our last defeat in the league? Wasn't Chelsea was it?
Yup. Game week nine.
9 goals conceded in our last 15. If I was being really picky, of the 21 we've conceded in 24 games, this season, 7 were in 2 games. That's only 14 conceded in the other 22.
Compared to Van Gaal, now we got more shots on opponents side and very much less shots against our side. On top of that, United averaged more % in possession compared to Van Gaal.
Mourinho is playing "negative and defensive tactic" while Van Gaal played his "tiki-taka possession and playing on the front foot".
Safe to say DDG is not going to be our player of the season.
I'm not at the edge of my seat right now either, and that's not the first time this season. This and simular topics show how much the mood is changed rather than the football has improved. It could be terribly tumescent with Van Gaal, but we've all so seen a lot of very exciting matches and quick link-up play up front. The difference is Zlatan Ibrahimovic, the fact that the opponents attack more which makes it more exciting too, and that there are more counter attacks. The counter attacks are usually good, but I'm not impressed with Mourinho's attacking play against the parked buses at all. But last year the players seemed to lose confidence in the tactics with only 10 minutes to go and a goal to score, I haven't seen that to that degree this year.
That's probably down to the press who had been out for the manager's head and waiting for their chance. Now it's about shots rather than shots on target, and they aren't milked to create a mood. It was never a bad luck last year, which there was a terrible lot of. It wasn't about the referees but LvG probably got a lot worse deal because he refused to blame others for a bad performance. I can't remember LvG escaping 3 dark red cards early in matches. Now it's supposed to be down to the poor finishing, but it was never about that last season, nor about the poor last passes.
This is another example. Mourinho spent a lot more, but it hardly ever gets mentioned and when it gets mentioned there's not a 100 million added to it. When DiMaria got sold on with only about a 10 million loss it never got deducted from his spending.
Of course Mourinho is responsible for the worst buy of the century. He spent an all time record fee on a player that will disrupt any fluidity in midfield because he has no awareness at all. A signing that was poor judgement or just didn't work out can happen to any manager, but the problem with Pogba is that it will be hard to sell hem on for more than 30 million.
Van Gaal failed because never got his playing style really going in the 15 months up to his spell of very bad luck. The problem is that Mourinho already got his playing style going, this is about it, it isn't going to get much better other than through better and even more expensive players, which is going to be difficult with Ibra at 35. As I understood it, the board decided a year ago to abandon the ambition of playing a more modern continental style of football and the systemic choice for young players, to get a manager who was a guarantee for a short term title challenge with high profile signings. Away with process and philosophy, instant success was what's required. I personally didn't expect that much from Mourinho and wanted United to follow through with youth and a (more) continental playing style, but for those who have been wanting him since january 2016 this season must already be a big disappointment.
But it's the optimism that's sounding louder, probably because there's no other option than optimism. There's no PL-proven top manager hiding in the curtains to get all your hopes up for this time. Another manager sacked would mean there's a problem with the club now SAF has retired and that would be an uncomfortable truth.
Wow, there is so much I disagree with so I can't construct a proper reply. But I would say this, there is a tangible improvement in our attacking play this season compared to the last one. If anything we were amazing at finishing last season because we would create this one chance in the whole match and it would go in. This season, even if we score only one, we atleast create 5 very good goal scoring opportunities, which is easier on the eye. I have looked forward to watching United matches again and that's because of the improvement in football, not in my mood!
Yes, and the reason for not conceding goals is not because De Gea is a superman. This makes for a welcome change.
Already writing off Pogba? Signing him was a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. Maybe he was expensive but we weren't really looking for bargains, we were rightly looking for the players to improve our team and I'm amazed that you think he hasn't. Apart from him, Jose signed Bailly and Mhki, each for about the same price as players like Benteke are going for. Oh, and a free Zlatan as well... You're clearly not a Jose fan but criticising him over his signings is crazy talk.
As for the disappointing season? It was a slow start, granted, but I think you can forgive any new manager a few months of settling in, if things improve. Since then, we've kept pace with Chelsea points wise and we're accumulating points faster than every other top 6 team. We haven't deserved to lose one single game we've played since October. Not sure what more you are expecting at this point really.
@Dr. Funkenstein obviously hasn't looked at the transfers of the past few years. If you put Pogba up for sale next Summer for £55m a whole host of clubs would absolutely bite your hand off.
But obviously we won't as he's going to be the best midfielder in the World in a few years and I'll be placing a large bet on him to score 20 goals in all competitions next season.
This is actually perfect. Amazing way of putting it
This season so far vs last season all games - PL only (averages per match). Source: OPTA stats
Selected stats:
Pen box touches 34 v 27 (up 26%)
Successful crosses 6.5 v 3.9 (up 67%)
Chances created 12.8 v 8.2 (up 56%)
Goal attempts 17.0 v 11.3 (up 50%)
On target 6.0 v 3.8 (up 58%)
Clearances, Blocks and Interceptions 52 v 40 (up 30%)
Selected stats:
Pen box touches 34 v 27 (up 26%)
Successful crosses 6.5 v 3.9 (up 67%)
Chances created 12.8 v 8.2 (up 56%)
Goal attempts 17.0 v 11.3 (up 50%)
On target 6.0 v 3.8 (up 58%)
Clearances, Blocks and Interceptions 52 v 40 (up 30%)
I don't get this argument. The only way we could have conceivably improved under LVG is by going out and buying a couple of world beaters who might have secured more points in spite of a «philosophy» that obviously wasn't working.
You can't seriously think that LVG actually did a grand job implementing his system (a system that was right for United and the Premier League) - but that he simply suffered from unprecedented bad luck for 15 months?
Mourinho's system isn't perfect either. But he has made us «hard to beat» without turning the entire team minus two or three attackers into robots (nervous robots, I should say) - and our counter attacks are much closer to actual United football than anything LVG served up.
LvG had "bad luck". I've heard it all now.
Much better under Mourinho.
No don't be silly, you're looking at it all wrong.
LvG was incredibly unlucky that of the £250m worth of players he bought, only the one he used and rated the least out of every single damn one of them turned out to be an important player for us this season whilst the rest were either sold or on the fringes. I mean what are the chances?
He was also really unlucky that the defense was so crap that he had to rely on the world's best GK, even though that exact same defense has been great this season, god, shocking luck and no fault of his.
This is the major one for me. I really look forward to being able to watch us, even if we're massively frustrating at times. It's so much better than being bored to death, although I did spend more time playing with the dog when I went round to my dads to watch the footy last season. So swings and roundabouts
Jose has also had to deal with a team partially built and mentally obliterated by LVG/Moyes.
You took the words out of my mouth. Not one thing I can say I agree with in that post either. The difference is light and day. But then again that was the same guy who insisted that Rooney wasn't haveing a bad season during his worst season ever under LVG mainly...
exactly. I can't remember a game where he has been asked to make a cluster of physics defying saves. This is a true indication that our defence has improved.
Tbf, the doc is to LvG, what Mad winger was to Kagawa!
We've been pretty poor and dull in the last month, which clouds my judgement a bit. But overall we're clearly better than under LVG. The number of goals we score is still pretty fecking poor, but at least we create more chances (even if many of them are not actually that big). I think the biggest change under Jose has been in our defense. We no longer have to set the team out super conservatively just to protect them.
feck me
I thought I was the only one who did a double-take on that. "LVG was unlucky because the 2 seasons he was here the players and his style was collectively poor but he was unlucky and the fact that that JM got his style going quicker and we are in a better position but "that's about it" "
He was actually fecking beyond lucky here, when you really think about it.feck me
I thought I was the only one who did a double-take on that. "LVG was unlucky because the 2 seasons he was here the players and his style was collectively poor but he was unlucky and the fact that that JM got his style going quicker and we are in a better position but "that's about it" "
- He took over from a manager who finished 7th the previous season, SEVENTH. Expectations couldn't have been any lower for him, he literally just had to finish in the top four.
- He was given a budget over two summers beyond anything ever given before to a manager in the Premier League.
- In the two seasons he was here he had possibly the shittest top four ever in which Leicester fecking City won the league and every other top team bottled it completely
- He got a piss easy CL group which he failed to even get out of
- He got a piss easy FA Cup run which thankfully we won
- He had the best GK in the world regularly making wonder-saves to keep him in games
- He bought a relatively unknown youngster on deadline day who just so happened to be brilliant and scored 17 goals whilst all his major signings flopped massively
it's beyond shocking that he cocked it up to the point that we missed out on top four last season and couldn't get out of an unbelievably easy CL group. Un-fecking-lucky my hole, Dr. Funkenstein must have a brown nose from LvG's butthole.
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