Signs of Progress | Mourinho vs Van Gaal

[mariner85]

LVG was here to put people to sleep, I haven't gone to sleep watching Mourinho's united anytime this season. Before comparing the stats, please compare how difficult the league has been this year. All our signings have done well under Mourinho. We have been unlucky in not finding the net more, but have created plenty of chances.

Under Mourinho there is regular foreplay but few climaxes. Under LVG all we got were a few wet 'dreams'.

 

[Roboc7]

At his peak LVG could have been a good manager for us but by the time he turned up here his best days were long gone. He was out dated, negative and completely out of touch in the transfer market, he always seemed to be struggling and I think things would have got worse if he had stayed. He was actually very well suited to international management, making teams rigid, organised, hard to beat and relying on an individual to win you a game is a blueprint that works for lots of international teams.

Jose took on a big job and although he has made mistakes and probably could and should be doing better, like him or not you have to be pretty deluded not to see improvements in transfer dealings, injury record, performances and results. There is a long way to go but I think for the first time since SAF left we are actually improving and after the summer window I think we will be competitive again.

 

[The red panther]

LVG was here to put people to sleep, I haven't gone to sleep watching Mourinho's united anytime this season. Before comparing the stats, please compare how difficult the league has been this year. All our signings have done well under Mourinho. We have been unlucky in not finding the net more, but have created plenty of chances.

Under Mourinho there is regular foreplay but few climaxes. Under LVG all we got were a few wet 'dreams'.

A bit easy to say we have just been unlucky no ?

Finishing chances is something you train on. Also scoring more goals from setplays like corners is something you can train on.

 

[VanGaalEra]

It's pretty obvious the improvement, we don't really need stats but there's still some posters who need convincing.

 

[The red panther]

It's pretty obvious the improvement, we don't really need stats but there's still some posters who need convincing.

I also think we have improved but simply not enough, I expected much more.

Just like LVG improved on Moyes it wasn't difficult for Mourinho to improve on LVG. But compared to the direct impact other coaches have had Mourinho should have done much better also considering the players he got in the summer. He will need to take some huge steps next year if he wants to stay in the job because if we are still playing like this next year he should get the sack no excuses.

 

[efraim]

Mourinho has definitely improved us, we're playing much, much better these days. I was lurking on this forum during the LVG era and my god, people we're pissed off after every single match. We played like shite, it was horrible. Wasn't there a guy who fell asleep in Old Trafford during a match? I think other Premier League teams would rather play us under LVG then Mourinho.

Now there's belief, even when we play badly there's always a chance, a feeling, that we can win. And that's something I've never witnessed in this short time I've been a United fan. That's why I think Mourinho is the man for the job.

 

[NinjaZombie]

And i can't accept this. It doesn't take 3 fecking years to recover from a man that was in charge for less than one season. He was not great but in hindsight he had an aged squad that did nothing after Fergie retired and many of which took a big step down afterwards. The players he brought in have featured prominently every season since. Look at Van Gaals transfer record...

Van Gaal frittered money away on average players, but the main thing is he ripped the enjoyment and soul out of the club. The fans were bored to tears and devoid of any confidence in the direction we were going. And that went on for two years.

They were both shit, in their own ways.

 

[mariner85]

A bit easy to say we have just been unlucky no ?

Finishing chances is something you train on. Also scoring more goals from setplays like corners is something you can train on.

I agree that finishing can be improved by training. But no matter how much you train, there is always small bit of luck involved with finishing.Nobody needs training with some of the sitters we have missed. I agree that On corners and set pieces as well as crossing we need improvement, Not a single player crosses properly.
With Van Gaal's united,as this was a comparison thread we dint creat enough chances. Which has not really a problem with Mourinho's united. That's the point I wanted to impress on.

 

[noodlehair]

Improvements under Mourinho from LVG era:
- Less boring football
- Players used in actual positions
- No occurrence of situations like taking 75 minutes to have a shot at home to Sheffield United
- Winning of games by actually deserving to win them
- Noticeable game plan
- Less injuries
- Non repeated use of players in roles they are clearly not suited to play in.
- Lack of self contradictory nonsense spouted in post match interviews.
- Urge to stop watching United games before they finish due to desire to get on with life, no longer there.
- Results, goals scored, etc. Plus general belief in the team's ability to improve and win things.

Improvements under LVG from Moyes era:
- Slight improvement in Ashley Young performances
- No interviews in which manager basically claims team is shite
- Trees planted at the training ground
- Ability to win games due to hero superman goalkeeper rather than by actually being any good.
- Progressed an extra round in the League Cup, or something.
- Managed to actually get Luke Shaw to not look like a fraud...for about 4 games.

 

[Eire Red United]

We can actually look forward to games this season with a bit of excitement and enjoy watchin United play again, another factor is that I expect us to win every game, as I did under Fergie rather than the last 3 years of hoping we win.

 

[Lord Zlatan]

Improvements under Mourinho from LVG era:
- Less boring football
- Players used in actual positions
- No occurrence of situations like taking 75 minutes to have a shot at home to Sheffield United
- Winning of games by actually deserving to win them
- Noticeable game plan
- Less injuries
- Non repeated use of players in roles they are clearly not suited to play in.
- Lack of self contradictory nonsense spouted in post match interviews.
- Urge to stop watching United games before they finish due to desire to get on with life, no longer there.
- Results, goals scored, etc. Plus general belief in the team's ability to improve and win things.

Improvements under LVG from Moyes era:
- Slight improvement in Ashley Young performances
- No interviews in which manager basically claims team is shite
- Trees planted at the training ground
- Ability to win games due to hero superman goalkeeper rather than by actually being any good.
- Progressed an extra round in the League Cup, or something.
- Managed to actually get Luke Shaw to not look like a fraud...for about 4 games.

Best post ive read in a while...thought the collapse from SAF to Moyes would be interesting

 

[Jaybomb]

You can't really compare the two. Van Gaal was brought in to set the foundations for Giggs and when Jose became available, they abandoned that plan. In my opinion, they made the right decision.

Theres no way they could pass up Mourinho again. They made that mistake already by giving the job to Moyes over him in 2013. If Mourinho was SAF's successor, I don't think there would have been a "transitional period", I think we would have won the title again in 13/14.

 

[sunama]

You can't really compare the two. Van Gaal was brought in to set the foundations for Giggs and when Jose became available, they abandoned that plan. In my opinion, they made the right decision.

Do people still remember when LVG claimed that the next manager of MUFC was Giggs?
That statement sent shockwaves through this forum.
1 year later, LVG was sacked and Giggs moved on.

 

[glazed]

I don't much care about our league position or the Champions League right now. I just appreciate that we're playing good fun football and I like our players (except Rooney.) Match day is a pleasure when it used to be like visiting a sick relative.

On that basis, Jose should get a clear run from the fans till at least next Xmas.

 

[RedFish]

Objective measures are the ultimate barometer I suppose, but right now I couldn't care less about how Mourinho compares in terms of stats etc., you just know from watching the footy week in, week out and feeling the general mood of the place, that this current set-up is planets away from LVG's.

Goes without saying that:

a) The football we play is much more direct and entertaining.
b) The foundations are solid as the unbeaten run shows. We hardly ever look like we're going to get beat.
c) I don't worry about lack of leadership from our manager. Play, train for the team or GTFO.
d) We are where we are just over half a season into Mou's reign, and the worst thing is just drawn games we should have won - Not exactly comparable to the soul crushing anti-football dished out during LVG's tenure.
e) I dare say that oppo's look at us now and don't instantly laugh. We're back and they know it.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Do people still remember when LVG claimed that the next manager of MUFC was Giggs?
That statement sent shockwaves through this forum.
1 year later, LVG was sacked and Giggs moved on.

Hardly something to bash LVG about, it was well published that people within United wanted Giggs. There was also lots of people on here who say they are in the know that LVG was told Giggs was his No. 2.

 

[unitedforeveral]

We're much better football wise. We're still in 4 competitions and a top4 spot. Van Gaal played such crappy teams with no tactical moved whatsoever. We're moving in the right direction for sure but we have to give up on our academy players. Jose will make a new collection of players and play faster football in the near future. I'm glad Rashford and Lingard came through faster. Only thing I appreciate Gaal for.

We have a very tough round of matches after Easter but can gain on our opponents
by then. We have a very good chance at Europa as well. Martial will play against Watford but I don't think until his work rate improves, Jose will play him.

EFL cup is ours to lose, FA cup will be a battle, Europa carb destroy us but Jose's confidence factor and the crowd can do wonders.

Go Team!

 

[Jaybomb]

I

Do people still remember when LVG claimed that the next manager of MUFC was Giggs?
That statement sent shockwaves through this forum.
1 year later, LVG was sacked and Giggs moved on.

I remember him saying he bought Martial for Giggs.

 

[Munich_1958]

the shit we had to sit through last season is incomparable to this season, I fecking fell asleep during a match last year and probably because I lost my fecking head with the way we were playing.

Jose is one of or is thee best manager in the world, he is still young and has a lot more to offer, we back him to the hilt because if he cant fix the issues then were staring into an oblivion IMO.

To me I can see a lot of positives for this season, I feel we are ready to challenge we have great quality throughout the squad, we have a manager who wont accept mediocre and its rubbing of on the players, if we had of converted some of our draws into wins were we totally brushed the team aside only for goals we would be fighting for the title, Only one team has deserved to beat us this season and in my view probably only one or two deserved a draw, titles are coming and by feck I cant wait.

 

[Attila]

Our style of play is so much better. It's exciting watching United now

 

[Footyislife]

We are better against the weaker sides under Mourinho, but abysmal against the top teams compared to LVG. Got to score more goals.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

We are two points off second, in the League Cup final, have an easy draw in the Europa League and FA Cup. Performances have generally been good and that's with a gazillion games drawn.

The improvement is there to see. Question is how will we end the season and if we can progress next season.

 

[LLMU]

Obvious improvement is how we move the ball faster and taking shots of goal. The second goal yesterday shows how fast we moved with four passes and a goal.

 

[Tapori]

How can you not look at how we now play and not be excited?

Really pleased with Mourinho taking on the attacking ethos of the club. We will go from strength to strength. Trust.

 

[ghagua]

There is a huge, huge difference between the shite that was played under LvG and what we are seeing now. It we may not be where we want to be, but we are moving in the right direction.

 

[MDFC Manager]

We're getting better. Still need to score more goals though. Like way more.

 

[Hahao]

We stupidly dropped at least 15 points this year. So many games where we had like 20 shots on goal and didnt score. So many games where we had the lead until the last minute and dropped it. We are playing much better but Mourinho's team selection was the reason for many of the points dropped.
Still we are playing better. It is undeniable.

Is it good enough, is it consistant, do I believe we can beat top 4 teams I dont know.
Im still skeptical on Mourinho. I do hope for the best but we"ll see. There are some encouraging signs but very often followed by games where we look so bad and mediocre.
Hopefully we do manage to play much better consistantly.

 

[AgentP]

We are two points off second, in the League Cup final, have an easy draw in the Europa League and FA Cup. Performances have generally been good and that's with a gazillion games drawn.

The improvement is there to see. Question is how will we end the season and if we can progress next season.

Being in so many competitions is going to be tricky. Jose will have to use every member of the squad and keep juggling lineups to prevent players from getting exhausted. It might affect our chances to finish in top 4 but it's definitely more fun for the fans because we get to watch more games.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

We might still be having Di Maria and maybe chicarito probably Nani if not for LVG.. also never once i fell asleep watching this side, whereas LVG cured my insomnia. Good man LVG.

 

[Yagami]

I remember hearing the commentator say we've already had more shots on target now than in the whole of last season. I think, by the end of said season, Zlatan alone will have had more!

 

[tekkers3]

The difference between now and both Moyes and LvG is that there is a sense that things will get better. Even when we werent playing well and not getting results this season, there were signs that we would improve.

When things were bad for Moyes and LvG, no one knew when, why or how it was going to improve. Thats why they had to go.

The games we drew this season, we could see that we could have won, and would win these types of games in the future. In the past, we had no answers and understood why we drew / lost games.

 

[Bobcat]

At his peak LVG could have been a good manager for us but by the time he turned up here his best days were long gone. He was out dated, negative and completely out of touch in the transfer market, he always seemed to be struggling and I think things would have got worse if he had stayed. He was actually very well suited to international management, making teams rigid, organised, hard to beat and relying on an individual to win you a game is a blueprint that works for lots of international teams.

Jose took on a big job and although he has made mistakes and probably could and should be doing better, like him or not you have to be pretty deluded not to see improvements in transfer dealings, injury record, performances and results. There is a long way to go but I think for the first time since SAF left we are actually improving and after the summer window I think we will be competitive again.

I think this is spot on. Managing a national team and managing a club is completely different and as you said, being "hard to beat" is often the way to go for international teams but will not get you anywhere in a league.

Our problem this year has been not killing off the lesser teams in otherwise dominant home performances. Stoke, Burnely, WH and Hull, these are games where we really should have won but only walked away with a draw. In an alternate reality we won those games and was sitting at 56 points now instead of 48, which meant we would be breathing down Chelseas neck instead of trying to claw ourselves into the top four.

My point is: With LVG i always felt like "this was our level" while now i feel like there is a lot of room for improvement.

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

A bit easy to say we have just been unlucky no ?

Finishing chances is something you train on. Also scoring more goals from setplays like corners is something you can train on.

It's not just had luck. We've seen the 2nd last number of goals at Old Trafford this season.

 

[Escobar]

When we play well, we play really when, and that's great to see and I hope we can keep that level more often. But we also had many, too many, shitty games and on top we just couldnt score. But surely on the right track

 

[Sultan]

Improvements under Mourinho from LVG era:
- Less boring football
- Players used in actual positions
- No occurrence of situations like taking 75 minutes to have a shot at home to Sheffield United
- Winning of games by actually deserving to win them
- Noticeable game plan
- Less injuries
- Non repeated use of players in roles they are clearly not suited to play in.
- Lack of self contradictory nonsense spouted in post match interviews.
- Urge to stop watching United games before they finish due to desire to get on with life, no longer there.
- Results, goals scored, etc. Plus general belief in the team's ability to improve and win things.

Improvements under LVG from Moyes era:
- Slight improvement in Ashley Young performances
- No interviews in which manager basically claims team is shite
- Trees planted at the training ground
- Ability to win games due to hero superman goalkeeper rather than by actually being any good.
- Progressed an extra round in the League Cup, or something.
- Managed to actually get Luke Shaw to not look like a fraud...for about 4 games.

Thread concluded

 

[Virgil]

Improvements under Mourinho from LVG era:
- Less boring football
- Players used in actual positions
- No occurrence of situations like taking 75 minutes to have a shot at home to Sheffield United
- Winning of games by actually deserving to win them
- Noticeable game plan
- Less injuries
- Non repeated use of players in roles they are clearly not suited to play in.
- Lack of self contradictory nonsense spouted in post match interviews.
- Urge to stop watching United games before they finish due to desire to get on with life, no longer there.
- Results, goals scored, etc. Plus general belief in the team's ability to improve and win things.

Improvements under LVG from Moyes era:
- Slight improvement in Ashley Young performances
- No interviews in which manager basically claims team is shite
- Trees planted at the training ground
- Ability to win games due to hero superman goalkeeper rather than by actually being any good.
- Progressed an extra round in the League Cup, or something.
- Managed to actually get Luke Shaw to not look like a fraud...for about 4 games.

Sound summing up although to be entirely fair to LVG you did omit an obvious one. Managed to win a trophy - the FA cup.

 

[VanGaalEra]

What's the points difference between this season and the last two seasons under LVG?

I'd imagine we're about 6/7 points ahead of this stage last season and maybe about 2-4 better off compared to the first LVG season.

Our goal difference at the end of last season was +14, it's already +17.

 

[davidmichael]

We may not look overly improved in terms of league position but we're 2 points off second and if results were to go our way and us win we could be second in the league, only Chelsea in my opinion have more momentum than us but that's based on them being top for so long whilst we've been unbeaten for quite a while.

We're creating a hell of a lot more, we're scoring more than once a game, we play the ball forward instead of sideways or backwards, we have pace in the team, we have creativity and not everything revolves around or goes through Rooney which shows we're moving forward as a team.

If we get a Champions League spot this season I can really see us kicking on next season as we've got the finances to sign absolutely anyone and could offer Champions League football as well as working under Jose which is still a big draw for a lot of players, now that the team we currently have has gelled I'm really excited about what next season can bring which shows a huge improvement from last season under Van Gaal.

 

[Andy_Cole]

I remember hearing the commentator say we've already had more shots on target now than in the whole of last season. I think, by the end of said season, Zlatan alone will have had more!

I'm pretty sure we had more shots in one game (Burnley) than the whole of last season.

 

[JB08]

What's the points difference between this season and the last two seasons under LVG?

I'd imagine we're about 6/7 points ahead of this stage last season and maybe about 2-4 better off compared to the first LVG season.

Our goal difference at the end of last season was +14, it's already +17.

After 25 games for the last 7 seasons:

2010-11: 54 Points
2011-12: 57 Points
2012-13: 62 Points
2013-14: 41 Points
2014-15: 47 Points
2015-16: 41 Points
2016-17: 48 Points

Really shows how big the fall is when Fergie retired, though that's obvious at this point. That 2012/13 season...

Also shows how shit Moyes was. 21(!) points less than the season before, after only 25 games.

If we had 48 points from 25 games in the last few years, we'd be:

2010-11: 4th
2011-12: 4th
2012-13: 3rd
2013-14: 4th
2014-15: 3rd
2015-16: 4th

Completely pointless hypotheticals of course, but it does go to show how competitive the top 4 race is this year.