This.
Ferguson has built the modern United, he can do as he please. Huge credit to him for staying away from the dressing room, even if he is entitled to pop in after the matches.
Sir Alex Ferguson has retired
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This.
Ferguson has built the modern United, he can do as he please. Huge credit to him for staying away from the dressing room, even if he is entitled to pop in after the matches.
Carlos Queiroz said it best I think:
The insinuation that SAFs presence is negative pressure on Moyes and he should keep away is stupid because I think Moyes is fully aware that nobody wants him to succeed at United more than Fergie.
The Daily Mail is just a picture book now isn't it.
They only stick a few words in between out of obligation.
Just been named Uefa Coaching Ambassador
Are you psychic?
If it takes a psychic to see Moyes was never going to be a success here, 90% of the forum are psychic.
There's no way 90% were against it. Massive revisionism there.
I'm certain at least 90% were against it when the rumours surfaced last May. They only began to accept it once Fergie started talking seriously about it.
Not at all. Very few on here wanted Moyes as the next manager. There was a poll for it too. Quick look tells me he got 12.5% of the votes. That'd include votes he got late on when it was clear he was getting the job I reckon.
Yep, it became quite clear he was going to get the job early once Fergie announced his retirement. No one then wanted to start of by saying Moyes was going to be a failure but I doubt outside of that 12% many really wanted him at the club.
No chance more than 10% of posters initially wanted Moyes.
If you look at initial polls are general murmurings around the forum at the time, most were split between Mourinho and Klopp.
If you look at initial polls are general murmurings around the forum at the time, most were split between Mourinho and Klopp.
Klopp was pie in the sky. Many also would have wanted Guardiola but he was already committed to Bayern.
It was only ever really Moyes or Mourinho and I'm positive more than 10-12% were more worried about Mourinho than Moyes.
Mou clearly had the track record and Moyes clearly didn't and needed to step up but there's no way 90% didn't want him. There was a lot of reluctant acceptance that he ticked many boxes, proven success not being one of them, but many were willing to give him a go.
It clearly hasn't worked AT ALL, starting with the backroom staff going. That was supposed to be a bonus with Moyes: continuity. Probably naivety borne in not having changed manager for decades. Any manager would bring his own team, clearly
It was only ever really Moyes or Mourinho and I'm positive more than 10-12% were more worried about Mourinho than Moyes.
Mou clearly had the track record and Moyes clearly didn't and needed to step up but there's no way 90% didn't want him. There was a lot of reluctant acceptance that he ticked many boxes, proven success not being one of them, but many were willing to give him a go.
It clearly hasn't worked AT ALL, starting with the backroom staff going. That was supposed to be a bonus with Moyes: continuity. Probably naivety borne in not having changed manager for decades. Any manager would bring his own team, clearly
Shit, I hadn't seen this thread before.
I'm so glad I saw the Moyes sacked thread first - I think hearing the news the other way round would have broken me.
I'm so glad I saw the Moyes sacked thread first - I think hearing the news the other way round would have broken me.
I thought Moyes was the right choice. It obviously failed but, I think it was worth risk.
I think Mou, Guardiola and Klopp were by far the favorites here when SAF announced he would retire. Only a few wanted Moyes it was only after he was confirmed as our new manager that then people started to support him as our new manager.
Still annoys me that peoples first reaction to Fergie retiring was either rimming Jose or slating Moyes
cnuts the lot of you
cnuts the lot of you
Now Ogden is our new god. 
Favourite and feasible are different things. Wanting Moyes and decidedly NOT wanting him also is, there was a large chunk of people somewhere in the middle.
Anyone was a step down from SAF so it was always going to be reluctance acceptance in uncharted waters. What pisses me off is not a single one of Moyes' advantages came through and all the harm Mourinho was feared for has been done (ripping up the backroom, alienating loyal servants, wasting money...).
That's close mindedness and nothing else. There's always lots of talent out there. This season itself has seen Rodgers and Simeone, amongst others, showing their quality.Klopp was pie in the sky. Many also would have wanted Guardiola but he was already committed to Bayern.
It was only ever really Moyes or Mourinho and I'm positive more than 10-12% were more worried about Mourinho than Moyes.
Mou clearly had the track record and Moyes clearly didn't and needed to step up but there's no way 90% didn't want him. There was a lot of reluctant acceptance that he ticked many boxes, proven success not being one of them, but many were willing to give him a go.
It clearly hasn't worked AT ALL, starting with the backroom staff going. That was supposed to be a bonus with Moyes: continuity. Probably naivety borne in not having changed manager for decades. Any manager would bring his own team, clearly
I'm simplifying, of course, but surely you agree the Guardiola talk months after he had signed with Bayern was completely pointless? Klopp seemed quite settled and happy with his experiment at Dortmund, nothing indicating he would move on at all.
It hasn't escaped me how Simeone got no mention at all last season, or how Rodgers is no longer Ricky Gervais. It's the sort of stuff that actually supports having been open-minded about Moyes! Yes, Everton are now better, but they were never as bad as we have been under him. He clearly hasn't won them over but the question at this point isn't any more who is "the right manager" but who would get these players performing and what the feck is going on in their heads. This doesn't just get fixed with a change of manager.
The guardiola talk was pointless. I don't think he was coming here. On the other hand, I don't think we ever approached the likes of him and klopp either. I think we were quite set on Moyes, or at least saf was.
In my opinion, re: the bolder bit, I don't think it does. Not for me at least. Moyes for me was never top manager material. His teams never played football that was top club material. There was nothing about him that said he was going to be good enough for the top clubs IMO. On the other hand the Rodgers appointment when it was announced did worry me a but because I saw genuine class in swansea's football under him which was forward thinking and on the front foot compared Moyes' shit on a stick Everton that were all about grit and mid table ideas. Even pocchetino represents more in to coaching sense of the ideas a manager should bring to a top club. He might not make it but I'd rather believe in some of his ideas having some chance of working at the top level rather than the ones Moyes showed at Everton.
Basically I'm open minded about future appointments. I think even unproven managers like Martinez and pocchetino show a bit of what I'd like to see at united although they're probably not ready and might never be, but Moyes never showed (IMO) anything when it comes to they way his teams played that I wanted anywhere near Manchester United.
Also regarding the last bit, it definitely an get fixed by the change of manager just liked it got ruined by it.
Over the years, every time our successor came up, most said no to moyes and just laughed it off. Most of the forum was rightly against him because he is what he is, a decent manager at best who was at his level playing boring football but getting results for his team. Nothing he ever showed was worthy of being handed the united job, which is why it was so shocking that he got it int he first place.
Not true. I think the majority of us went against our insticnt and quickly learned to accept the decision because SAF specifically asked us to. Just read through the threads.
I hated this appointment and wanted Mourinho, but once it was settled I got in line and wanted Moyes to do well. 90% of us were the same in the early months.
Its in about October, when its clear there is something in the chemistry that is not working that the dissent started. Its been an avalanche ever since.
I'd agree everyone aspired to a bigger name than Moyes, but him being brought up so often indicated there was something there. Why not any other random manager in the league? It's very easy to call Everton under Moyes shit on a stick but it quite clearly was a team set up to be effective within the expectations set and budget available (none really). He did bring through quality players at Everton, his players were loyal and he always dealt with disciplinary issues really well. Sure, it's not the same level, but bar Mourinho there wasn't really anyone out there available with better credentials. Mind, I didn't watch Everton often enough to spot whether he had any real tactical competence beyond what was a quite reasonable midtable gameplan. Clearly, he didn't.
Again, not preferring Moyes and not wanting Moyes at all are different things. I don't think 90% were dead against it. A majority thought/hoped we could have done better? Yes, but it was never so one sided in terms of resisting it.
There weren't many pro-Moyes, that I'd agree with, there was no real reason to be pro-Moyes.
This is the most critical point for me. Moyes appointment only made sense if he could deliver these things …. in the short term, keep the club ticking over with the ideology, culture, and methods firmly entrenched by SAF.
Instead, Moyes, Woodward, Round, P Neville, Lumsdan and Woods was effectively an entirely new senior management team at the club, all in one go. It is unprecedented at any Fortune 500 company that an entire board is replaced in one go so I have no idea why anybody thought we would be successful with such a transition. I respected Rodgers a great deal for the amount of time he invested in learning about Liverpool's traditions and history in his early months at Liverpool and that he went out of way to emotionally connect with his fan base and the local area. Moyes has not cultivated the same relationships in Manchester. And of course his record in the transfer market spending €75m but delivering no impact at all in the team has been a disaster.
The job for me was very easy: Allow SAFs coaches to run the club, as was, for the first few months and simply observe and absorb the clubs methods. Use existing club intelligence to immediately recruit a suitably classy central midfield ball winner and perhaps a left back. Use the first months to build relationships with senior players and staff, meet senior and influentials supporters and stakeholders within Manchester and get to Christmas in the top 4 of the table and still in the cups. Only after about 100 days should he start thinking about implementing any new ideas he has, but even then, it needed to be in a phased and coherent manner. He was given a 6 year contract … he had plenty of time to go about his work in a planned and systematic manner and so not change things that were working perfectly fine.
None of that is rocket science …. Managing the first 100 days of any new senior appointment is a well established path which all seasoned professionals are aware of. But it seems Moyes was hell bent of being Mr HardMan, wanted to hit the ground running and rip out the heart of the club. I wonder if SAF knew that his protege and friend would so brazenly disregard every principle he has established at his beloved club?
Moyes tried to fix problems that did not exist, ignored issues that have been plainly obvious and seemingly had very little respect for the amazing work done at the club in years gone past. Press leaks like SAF's footballing operation being years behind the modern world, that our squad was simply not good enough, that the team required enormous restructuring were all made to help cover up his own limitations and capability in the job. Its been a white elephant in the room for too long.
Simply put, Moyes was not the man for the job, and the club has suffered a heavy penalty in trying to make that decision work.
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Agreed. It's all the Billy Big Bollocks being his own man and making his mark that completely fecked things up. You have to keep things ticking, appreciate the cadence between all the moving parts and step in where required to keep things flowing. Instead he just came in like an overeager bull in a china shop and disrupted it all.
So if Moyes does leave how does it affect fergie's position on the board? He has been quiet all along unwilling to comment but surely this occasion deserves a fergie encore. A fallout with the glazers or accept he made the wrong choice and throw his support behind the new boss?
I never said this before, but spot on
But it took either:
1. A management adept manager to understand that simple approach
2. A humble enough personality to stand back and observe (which is not a trait that everyone have)
I doubt Moyes reads enough managerial book to understand the simple basic of Human Resources Management, let alone Fortune 500 stuffs, and I don't really think he's humble enough for this approach.
And to be fair, there are also managerial theorem that requires him to make his presence known (sacking the staff)
Either way, it's always clear to look in a hindsight
If SAF is being honest with himself, he knows he made the feckup. He might be stubborn at times, but I don't think he can blame the board for sacking Moyes, if any he should feel responsible for choosing the wrong one.
Leave the old man alone. Even he must have been shocked at how out of depth Moyes has been.
I didn't blame him, but to think that he will be angry at the board for sacking Moyes... i don't think so.
EDIT: I don't even think Moyes can blame the board for sacking him.
Of course he can be mad at the board for sacking him..they killed his dream..
Can we try and comment on this thread backwards? Sort of like when Superman reverse rotated the earth so that he could go back in time and stop all the disasters from happening?
Havent seen any pics or vids of him at our games in a while now,is he still going or he's a hide and seek champion ?
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