Southgate eyed for the United job - Telegraph

[Kag]

Yeah, had a think about this and I was right earlier in the thread.

This is Woodward’s brief to Wallace to take the pressure off Ole and Pochettino and make the entire circus surrounding them seem like less of a two horse race (even though it definitely is).

Stop losing your shit.

 

[bosnian_red]

Much as it's a nice narrative if it does work, I'm not sure understanding the club is really all that important. Busby literally spent his career playing for our main rivals and Fergie didn't exactly have a strong connection for the most part before joining. Indeed, if anything, instead of coming in with an understanding of what United was/is, both men instead reshaped that definition due to how good they were, and due to the fact that they were visionaries.

Most fans would (generally speaking) have a strong understanding of the club but they obviously wouldn't have the managerial chops to run it.

You dont have to play for the club to understand what the club is truly about and to know how to convey this. I wouldnt say Fergie did anything to stray far from what our history was known for. He had the same principles as Busby did. He built the club off youth, introduced his own principles and professionalism of course, but also always knew that a big club had to act like a big club and always play to win. Busby played for and captained our greatest rivals, but as much as some might not like to admit it, they're built on pretty much the same principles as we are.

You have to understand what the club is truly about. Its 100%relevant. Mourinho is a great manager and a winner and whatever else. He was never suited to this club. You have to have the respect of the players, but you also have to know the club and even more importantly be able to properly convey that to the players. Solskjaer himself doesnt have to be this great tactician to work out here. But if he has the right attitude and always gives the players the right mentality, to play the United way, while also being able to delegate and not being too proud to take the opinion of others, than there is no reason why it cant work. First thing he did was bring in Sir Alex's #2. He has excellent coaches all around him who all know the club and can transfer that knowledge and attitude to the players.

The biggest thing that Solskjaer has to prove, at least in the short term, is being able to overcome adversity. Nobody wins every game. We'll get a run of bad form. It's important that he then doesnt stray from his and our principles and we keep plugging away instead of ripping it all up and doing dramatic changes like so many managers do.

 

[worldinmotion66]

I knew it'd be a matter of minutes before that was picked up on. I'm a traditionalist. England > United. I also believe Southgate might well be so I can't see him leaving the job either way.

 

[AJ10]

Are people seriously discussing this guy for United job?

 

[iammemphis]

If i was the United board i would certainly offer Southgate an interview. Doesn’t mean we have to offer it to him. Going by the World Cup he has shown he can gain the respect of big name players, aswell as that he has exceptional match preparation skills. Tactically i think he has done alright, not great but there really isn’t a huge amount of games to judge him by. Besides, a decent assistant manager, like Fergie had with Querioz, would help that situation. If he impressed then he would be worth considering IF one or two other options weren’t available, like Poch.

Of course none of this really matters as Solskjaer > Southgate.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Yeah, had a think about this and I was right earlier in the thread.

This is Woodward’s brief to Wallace to take the pressure off Ole and Pochettino and make the entire circus surrounding them seem like less of a two horse race (even though it definitely is).

Stop losing your shit.

Good shout, he has talked about the fact that many people have applied for the job.

 

[ice-bionic red]

No he is not.

 

[Cheesy]

Achievement is perhaps not totally the right word, but guiding England to the semi finals, despite the run of games he had, is a better achievement than winning two league titles in a small league, the best part of 10 years ago. If it wasn't Ole and some other random manager with a similar record, people would say exactly the same.

Is it, though? Getting a side to the semis of the WC is impressive but luck undoubtedly plays a huge role in cup competitions, where you can do disproportionately well over a small sample of games. Winning a league requires much more long-term consistency and is generally a better measure of how good a manager is. Plenty of sides have won - or done well in - various cup competitions in spite of having managers who aren't necessarily all that great. League-winning managers who aren't particularly good tend not to be as common.

 

[bosnian_red]

I knew it'd be a matter of minutes before that was picked up on. I'm a traditionalist. England > United. I also believe Southgate might well be so I can see him leaving the job either way.

You preferring your country over your club doesnt mean that job is bigger though. Being the manager of Manchester United, theres only probably 2 bigger managerial jobs, which is being manager of Real Madrid and Barcelona (and Barca is debatable). No international management job compares to those. People can prefer one, but objectively, it doesnt make it bigger.

 

[worldinmotion66]

You preferring your country over your club doesnt mean that job is bigger though. Being the manager of Manchester United, theres only probably 2 bigger managerial jobs, which is being manager of Real Madrid and Barcelona (and Barca is debatable). No international management job compares to those. People can prefer one, but objectively, it doesnt make it bigger.

It has traditionally been the biggest job though, surely? When Revie left Leeds to manage England, they were the best team in the country. Clough also sought the job despite his successes with Forest and Redknapp has always done the same. It's the biggest job to many people, maybe not the modern generation but traditionally I think it has been.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

This guy should just remain England manager. In many ways he's an ideal fit for that job in the coming years.

Having said that, as a neutral I wasn't impressed at all with the football England played at the World Cup and considering the ridiculous amount of individual quality available, I also feel the results were actually a bit disappointing. A little bit more bravery instead of letting central defenders pass it to each other in a pointless three at the back, which didn't even protect against conceding goals at crucial times, and England could've made it to a World Cup final given the draw.

Croatia did show that bit of bravery and tried to actually played good football, despite having to rely on pure mediocrity like Vida in defense and they got their reward. From what I understand Southgate has since switched to different set ups and has done well again in the Nations League so I'm sure he will keep on developing and there's a good manager there. Given the lack of connection to United I see nothing he has over our current manager though, which in turn would mean that even considering him as an option is a bit pointless.

 

[bosnian_red]

It has traditionally been the biggest job though, surely? When Revie left Leeds to manage England, they were the best team in the country. Clough also sought the job despite his successes with Forest and Redknapp has always done the same. It's the biggest job to many people, maybe not the modern generation but traditionally I think it has been.

Not the case anymore though. Football has changed, super clubs like United, Madrid Barca, etc didnt exist. You had the big clubs but it wasnt close to the size it is now.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Is it, though? Getting a side to the semis of the WC is impressive but luck undoubtedly plays a huge role in cup competitions, where you can do disproportionately well over a small sample of games. Winning a league requires much more long-term consistency and is generally a better measure of how good a manager is. Plenty of sides have won - or done well in - various cup competitions in spite of having managers who aren't necessarily all that great. League-winning managers who aren't particularly good tend not to be as common.

I agree with most of this, however I don't feel the Norwegian league is a strong enough league for that to be valid in this case.

I also reckon if this wasn't Ole, but a different manager from the Norwegian league who's been just as successful as Ole, this wouldn't be a debate.

 

[bonothom]

God no. Southgate, Conte, Simeone...... Just NO! Please... We do not want these managers in a million years. I pray that Ole can keep doing an amazing job.

 

[Class of 63]

Pick the guy that chose Jones over Smalling for the world cup. Makes sense.

Which if you were choosing purely on ability was the correct call.

 

[Slevs]

Which if you were choosing purely on ability was the correct call.

Okay Gareth.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Sorry to disappoint many on this board, but England have been improving since the world cup, beating Spain and Croatia to top their group in the nation's league. Whatever your bias against Southgate, he's done a very good job with England so far. I hope he stays with England.

That said, his appointment would make no sense. Either go for experienced modern premier league manager like Poch or stick to someone who knows the club inside and out and can play the United way, like Ole.

People are getting their knickers in a twist over a tabloid story and it's sad.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

This guy should just remain England manager. In many ways he's an ideal fit for that job in the coming years.

Having said that, as a neutral I wasn't impressed at all with the football England played at the World Cup and considering the ridiculous amount of individual quality available, I also feel the results were actually a bit disappointing. A little bit more bravery instead of letting central defenders pass it to each other in a pointless three at the back, which didn't even protect against conceding goals at crucial times, and England could've made it to a World Cup final given the draw.

Croatia did show that bit of bravery and tried to actually played good football, despite having to rely on pure mediocrity like Vida in defense and they got their reward. From what I understand Southgate has since switched to different set ups and has done well again in the Nations League so I'm sure he will keep on developing and there's a good manager there. Given the lack of connection to United I see nothing he has over our current manager though, which in turn would mean that even considering him as an option is a bit pointless.

We played some very nice stuff in the Nations League.

By far the better side home and away against Croatia, unlucky to lose at home to Spain and deserved to beat them in Spain.

I don't want Southgate as Utd manager, I don't think he'd be a success.

He's been fantastic as England manager though, it's annoying seeing the usual bitter posters, not you specifically, trying to downplay or belittle what he's done since becoming England boss.

 

[Minimalist]

Which if you were choosing purely on ability was the correct call.

Bar the ability to defend?

Not particularly interested in the ability to entertain me with gaffes and funny faces.

 

[hobbers]

Crystal Palace just beat City, that must mean their manager must be some kind of prodigy as well.

What has Ole done to be considered above Southgate?

Not that much, other than the obvious already existing links with the club and the fact he's already here. International management is almost irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, and they have comparable club experience.

But crucially Ole has the goodwill of the fans, which Southgate would not have. Moyes was fecked before a ball was kicked because the majority of the fanbase recognised how shit an appointment it was. Likewise if we brought in Southgate and he had a bad spell or rough beginnings, he'd be given absolutely no leeway. Whereas with Ole at the very least he will get a little bit of room for mistakes from the fans.

 

[Sandikan]

Southgate would just be wrong all round.
England have just started to put some decent performances in, and he's not shown a lot at club level.

Moving to us would be bad for both us and England.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Hell fecking no

 

[Minimalist]

This nob took Jones over Smalling for the WC.

Wise up.

 

[cerdan689908]

Thanks but no thanks.

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

Southgate has achieved with England by picking young players and being nice to them. Ole can do that.

 

[Janson]

That's where our opinions differ then, because I would give anything for Simeone. To me being proven is the most important thing. With OGS, even if he does well this season, I don't know how much confidence I would have in him to be able to win at such a high level when we're actually expected to win things. I don't see why a top class manager like Simeone or any other proven manager wouldn't have the respect of the players just because they don't have a relation to us. I know Mourinho was proven as well, but that's a different story since he's turned in to a nutcase lately.

It's not just about being a United legend, but it's what has him working right now because he has the respect of all the players. Southgate is not more proven than Ole when it comes to anything related to a Manchester United job. He'd be a guaranteed flop because he just isnt suited to United in the slightest. Its not about being proven. That's not what united needs so much. We need to be as close minded as possible and have our set of requirements and not even consider anything else. Playing the United way, bringing through though, truly understanding what the club represents, actually being able to convey all this to the players, etc.

That's why managers like Simeone, while great managers themselves, shouldnt even get a second of consideration.

 

[bosnian_red]

That's where our opinions differ then, because I would give anything for Simeone. To me being proven is the most important thing. With OGS, even if he does well this season, I don't know how much confidence I would have in him to be able to win at such a high level when we're actually expected to win things. I don't see why a top class manager like Simeone or any other proven manager wouldn't have the respect of the players just because they don't have a relation to us. I know Mourinho was proven as well, but that's a different story since he's turned in to a nutcase lately.

You would give anything for Simeone? What type of Manchester United do you want to watch? Shocking that after seeing Mourinho here for 2.5 years and generally the last 5 years we've had, that ANYONE who likes United would want another manager who doesn't play attacking football.

It's not only about having the respect of the players. Some clubs you just need the full package. United is one of those clubs that quite simply needs to play in a positive manner and always play to win and have a duty to entertain. No matter how successful or passionate a manager is, if he plays negatively, he'll fail at United.

 

[simonhch]

Sorry to disappoint many on this board, but England have been improving since the world cup, beating Spain and Croatia to top their group in the nation's league. Whatever your bias against Southgate, he's done a very good job with England so far. I hope he stays with England.

That said, his appointment would make no sense. Either go for experienced modern premier league manager like Poch or stick to someone who knows the club inside and out and can play the United way, like Ole.

People are getting their knickers in a twist over a tabloid story and it's sad.

Sensible post. So much mouth frothing on this forum.

 

[Janson]

You would give anything for Simeone? What type of Manchester United do you want to watch? Shocking that after seeing Mourinho here for 2.5 years and generally the last 5 years we've had, that ANYONE who likes United would want another manager who doesn't play attacking football.

It's not only about having the respect of the players. Some clubs you just need the full package. United is one of those clubs that quite simply needs to play in a positive manner and always play to win and have a duty to entertain. No matter how successful or passionate a manager is, if he plays negatively, he'll fail at United.

I don't really care if we're entertaining tbh. Getting us back to the top is the main priority for me, regardless of playing style. Obviously I would take an attacking manager if one with a good resume is available. But if it's between OGS and a Simeone, there is no question for me.

 

[JoseandMkhiarespecial]

Would prefer to continue with Ole.

Southgate played Walker at Centre Back and funky 5 at the back formations that generally don't succeed in the EPL.

It's okay having drab possession when it's 0-0 when you can go to penalties in internationals but not at Utd

 

[lsd]

We played some very nice stuff in the Nations League.

By far the better side home and away against Croatia, unlucky to lose at home to Spain and deserved to beat them in Spain.

I don't want Southgate as Utd manager, I don't think he'd be a success.

He's been fantastic as England manager though, it's annoying seeing the usual bitter posters, not you specifically, trying to downplay or belittle what he's done since becoming England boss.

Yeah he has been good at winning meaningless friendlies . Noone but England thinks the Nation's League is anything other than a waste of time.

He had his chance in the world Cup and failed to beat any halfway decent side in getting the easiest run ever to a semi final

 

[cyberman]

Southgate is a weird one since if Ole lasts the season he could end up with more wins v big sides, more wins v top level opposition playing a similar style to England than Southgate would have.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Yeah he has been good at winning meaningless friendlies . Noone but England thinks the Nation's League is anything other than a waste of time.

He had his chance in the world Cup and failed to beat any halfway decent side in getting the easiest run ever to a semi final

Bollocks.

Watch Spains reaction when the whistle blows for full time in the Spain 2 England 3 game and tell me they don't care.

 

[bonothom]

I like Southgate. Think he's doing a great job for England and that's they way I'd like it to stay. If United were to get around 75 points I think Ole should get the job. It would be an amazing amount of points considering where they were when he took over. Over a whole season that would equate to around 89 points and a title challenge.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Rather have ole.

 

[Green_Red]

I'd rather crush a bollock in a vice than watch United under Southgate.

 

[NinjaZombie]

I agree with most of this, however I don't feel the Norwegian league is a strong enough league for that to be valid in this case.

I also reckon if this wasn't Ole, but a different manager from the Norwegian league who's been just as successful as Ole, this wouldn't be a debate.

Discounting the fact that it's Ole and he knows the club inside out is unfair though. It's a bit like saying "Yeah but other than 3 CL wins, what has Zidane done as a manager?"

Van Gaal and Mourinho are both successful managers in their own right, but both failed because they didn't fit the club. I honestly won't mind it if Ole took over, especially after seeing the effect he has had on the club.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Years. More like months

Touche

 

[Andersonson]

He should be a candidate for consideration. If Ole fails and Poch goes to Real, he could be the one.

Reasons? He has done well With England Senior and u21. He has had other roles as well that suits the vision of the Club. He seems to enjoy promoting youth and attacking football. He ticks many boxes that a United manager should have. He dont have fancy name, so many People Write him off based on nothing.

I still see People claiming Giggs should be mentioned, but not Gareth? Doesnt make any sense at all. If all other natrual targets fails, Gareth should be a candidate.

 

[devilish]

Which if you were choosing purely on ability was the correct call.

I never thought england needed a player with no ability