Support David Moyes thread

[shaggy]

I found this on reddit today. It'll be worth a read for everyone.

An open letter to David Moyes

Interesting reading the comments, you could substitute 'Everton' with 'Man United' and many things apply to us today...

For me the EFC management team have lost the plot, the combination of Moyes and Round is disastrous for our club, they are too defensive minded , cautious, negative, stubborn, their tactics and style of play are so predictable.
The team spirit seems to have drained away from the players, but even worse is the visible decline in the passion from us the fans, Everton don’t entertain the fans, don’t score, don’t attack enough, don’t even put in the crunching tackle or chase down a lost cause, give us something to get excited about, the whole club is stale and in decline.
I love Everton and always will but find myself moaning about the Club every time football comes up in conversation,

 

[mancan92]

I found this on reddit today. It'll be worth a read for everyone.

An open letter to David Moyes

Sounds exactly like us. The way he talks about Drente are the same issues Im seeing with Kagawa.

 

[MPTutd]

I am standing by Moyes because:

1) It is not all his fault. He was left with a squad that needed a major overhaul
2) I feel we have been unlucky at times this season.
3) A large number of players have been spectacularly off form compared to past years
4) Injuries have certainly not helped

 

[Adebesi]

Is this thread also destined to be merged with the Moyes So Far thread?

 

[Getsme]

Is this thread also destined to be merged with the Moyes So Far thread?

It should be

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I am standing by Moyes because:

1) It is not all his fault. He was left with a squad that needed a major overhaul
2) I feel we have been unlucky at times this season.
3) A large number of players have been spectacularly off form compared to past years
4) Injuries have certainly not helped

Fair enough, I admire those of you still prepared to persist with him. We need Moyes in men as well, because we've no idea how this is gonna pan out.

I am not standing by Moyes because:

1. The football is absolutely dire. This is the worst performing United side I've ever seen.
2. Not only has he not delivered on the football, he has failed to achieve results.
3. He is not a winner.
4. He has played players irregardless of form. Valencia was a fixture in the side up until recently.
5. On top of that he has build a game plan around either playing player's out of form or out of position.
6. This squad is definitely good enough to achieve top four, even with the injuries.
7. He appears to lack the charisma or the bollocks to manage a club of this magnitude.

 

[Anderson18]

Honestly anyone that still is positive about David Moyes gets my respect. I mean yesterday was historically bad and still some find the power to defend him and so many still sing his name after paying to see that shit we play under him. In my opinion, yesterday and our form in 2014 generally showed that he simply isn't the right one.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Sounds exactly like us. The way he talks about Drente are the same issues Im seeing with Kagawa.

Aye and Drenthe's sure gone on to prove Moyes wrong, hasn't he?

 

[Shimo]

I am standing by Moyes because:

1) It is not all his fault. He was left with a squad that needed a major overhaul
2) I feel we have been unlucky at times this season.
3) A large number of players have been spectacularly off form compared to past years
4) Injuries have certainly not helped

I am still standing by him but, I disagree with the major overhaul part. Outside of central midfield and perhaps left back, we've got quality every where else. Which your 3rd point eludes to - got a lot of players just not playing well. If that's because of him not inspiring them to do better or they've collectively just melted down from losing Fergie - who knows.

I will stand by Moyes till the end of the season - in that time he needs to show he can inspire and play in a manner that he thinks we should play. 4th if completely out of reach and as such he should not be playing for results, he should be playing for his future, he should be playing to get the team playing in a manner that shows improvement that the fans and the players can embrace.

If he can do that then he'll have my backing the season following. If he can't then I'll be in the camp of - lets change him because he has shown he can't change.

 

[mancan92]

Aye and Drenthe's sure gone on to prove Moyes wrong, hasn't he?

I'm only new to the mains. But it seems you just keep going around nick picking posts to suit some agenda. Just kinda off putting.

 

[girish]

Aye and Drenthe's sure gone on to prove Moyes wrong, hasn't he?

Read it Pogue. There are a lot of striking similarities to our current situation.

 

[Mockney]

Pride comes before a fall, and by god are we going to fall before we admit we fecked up by hiring Moyes.

 

[Varun]

Pride comes before a fall, and by god are we going to fall before we admit we fecked up by hiring Moyes.

Yeah, lets atleast hope he spends well in the summer. Last thing we want is for him to buy poorly because we must be doing quite a lot of business in the summer.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Read it Pogue. There are a lot of striking similarities to our current situation.

Aye it is. And there are also plenty of comments to it that don't agree with what the writer says. Just like here, several people point out that there are legitimate reasons why he has done this and that. He didn't have the greatest financial backing at Everton - it hampered him. Is he inherently negative and "stone-age"? No, I don't think he is. He plays to the strength of his teams under normal circumstances. Let's hope that taking over for Fergie at United means the circumstances hasn't exactly been normal for him.

He sells flair players? Who bought them in the first place?

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Pride comes before a fall, and by god are we going to fall before we admit we fecked up by hiring Moyes.

Yeah, especially with Sir Alex's shadow still looming large over Old Trafford.

 

[Sir Matt]

I found this on reddit today. It'll be worth a read for everyone.

An open letter to David Moyes

Nah, mate. Everton were just like watching Barcelona last season. Ask datura. He'll tell you.

 

[Raoul]

I am standing by Moyes because:

1) It is not all his fault. He was left with a squad that needed a major overhaul
2) I feel we have been unlucky at times this season.
3) A large number of players have been spectacularly off form compared to past years
4) Injuries have certainly not helped

I think number one is severely overplayed.

There are two major reasons he has struggled. 1. Injuries and 2. mismanaged summer transfer window.

Realistically, I reckon our injuries have cost us about 12 points this year. Add those back and suddenly things seem a bit less dire. In essence, our squad wasn't as shit as many things, but intermittent injuries to our three best players have cost us dearly.

 

[Danny_]

I think number one is severely overplayed.

There are two major reasons he has struggled. 1. Injuries and 2. mismanaged summer transfer window.

Realistically, I reckon our injuries have cost us about 12 points this year. Add those back and suddenly things seem a bit less dire. In essence, our squad wasn't as shit as many things, but intermittent injuries to our three best players have cost us dearly.

United would be 3 points off first place with an extra 12 points.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I think number one is severely overplayed.

There are two major reasons he has struggled. 1. Injuries and 2. mismanaged summer transfer window.

Realistically, I reckon our injuries have cost us about 12 points this year. Add those back and suddenly things seem a bit less dire. In essence, our squad wasn't as shit as many things, but intermittent injuries to our three best players have cost us dearly.

Well sorry but we had those players against the worst team of the premiership yesterday plus a new 40m signing on top of that,we still played horrid football and watched a team that just lost at home to Sheffield come to Old Trafford and take points, so the injuries excuse means nothing.

 

[girish]

Well sorry but we had those players against the worst team of the premiership yesterday plus a new 40m signing on top of that,we still played horrid football and watched a team that just lost at home to Sheffield come to Old Trafford and take points, so the injuries excuse means nothing.

They played the way their manager told to, and it wasnt working.

 

[SilentWitness]

Aye and Drenthe's sure gone on to prove Moyes wrong, hasn't he?

Not only that but he had a few disciplinary issues whilst at the club too. A player can have all the ability in the world but if they disrespect the club/treat it like a playground then i wouldn't want them starting.

 

[Sky1981]

Im hoping that the dire football we are playing at the moment is a result of players being devoid of any confidence rather then them being instructed to play that way.
I don't recall us being quite so reliant on percentage football a few weeks ago when we went on a little run, 10 games unbeaten or something, so i'm quite sure the players are lacking confidence and therefore not using imagination in their play.
It is the responsibilty of Moyes to build these players back up, theres no way a team with Rooney RVP Mata and Januzaj should be so far off the pace.
I myself have completeley wrote this season off (as it seems some of the players have) I have no expectation at all anymore for this season but i am looking forward to next season where i dont believe Moyes will survive if we h ave a repeat of this one.

Time will tell ......

Right / wrong is another debate.

But anywhere in any organization, if you lose 50% of the employee's trust / faith, you're the bad boss. There's one thing being idealistic, being pragmatic is another thing. During SAF's early year, I bet he couldn't wait to ship all those drunk boozers out of the club, but his hands are tied, and I believe he play a fool till he is ready to ship them out. You might retaliate one day, shipping the culprit out one by one in the future, but when your subordinate are up in arms against you, there's not much to gain either way, and most organization simply opted to change the man in charge. The term management simply means "Man Management", you manage man most of the time, or else you're not a manager but a machine operator.

Managerial thing is an art, you have to appear strict and principled at the outside, but inside any organization you'll have to adapt, there are times you have to play Mr. nice guy, and there are times you have to stick by your principal even when you lose out in the short run. But eventually, your goal is to success in the long run. SAF knew he has to stroke some players ego, because they're too big to lose out at times, he does that brilliantly though, allowing both party to save face and continue like nothing happened. Moyes on the other hand seems to stick to his principals at all cost (Zaha, Fabio, Valencia, Young) and offers no flexibility even if things aren't working.

He's a whisker away from losing his job, and if that doesn't motivate him enough to try new things, I don't think 5 years down the line he can be motivated to take a shot at glory if he can't even take a shot at his career.

It's one thing not to possess tactical nous, but man management is a skill you just have to have, and in my eyes, he doesn't have both of them (at least up to the standards of great manager), hence I really don't want to persists with him.

Moyes' brigade only hoping on one thing here : That one day he will become good.

I just don't see it, he might learn a trick or two after this summer, but he has got too many to catch up with the already formidable from the start of his career Mourinho, Klopp, Guardiola, even SAF in his early reign.

He has 10 years at Everton, and we have seen no visible improvement after his first 3 years of stabilizing them into midtable, the most worrying thing is that he never won against the top 4 away... surely this rings alarm bell, even championship teams strike lucky once in a while in the FA cup.

 

[Vooon]

This might sound cheesy, but I kinda look at the epic failure of this season (I don't believe it will get any better) is due to a couple of factors. Losing SAF was like losing a great general during the middle of a battle, like if you're lead by Alexander the Great and he suddenly kicks the bucket it will do something to you - morale will drop tremendously and you will find it hard to fight on. I think his departure had this effect on, at least some, of the team - maybe even a majority. You need a pretty strong and charismatic leader to fill those boots immediately, I think any manager would struggle.

There seems to be a lot going wrong these days, for various reasons, but I think the departure of SAF has a major influence on the squad still - the readjustment process must still be very difficult for the players. Everything will be compared to SAF.

I still want Moyes to succeed, I don't really see any good replacements at the moment. But something has to happen this summer.

 

[NoLogo]

Since I fought under Alexander the Great personally I totally get what you mean.

Joking aside I get what you mean and if we might have a really good option for our manager next season, which I doubt we will, we need to hope for the best and that Moyes is capable of turning the ship around and steer us on the right course again.

 

[jem]

I found this on reddit today. It'll be worth a read for everyone.

An open letter to David Moyes

God that is sobering to read, particularly the comments that follow. You do have to ask yourself what exactly SAF and the owners had in mind when they went for Moyes. Stability just for the sake of stability?

 

[ruddevil]

Fergie also thinks Djemba-djemba would come good when he signed him. He had potential at the time of signing so sticking with him for 2 years before getting him offloaded was vindicated. Fergie has made numerous mistakes in signing up personnel in the past. He gave enough time before he shipped them out. Moyes has no potential at all and not enough technical prowess to succeed. It is proven already and the negative records keep on stacking week after week. What would Fergie do if he's still the one deciding?

Sack Moyes.

 

[ruddevil]

God that is sobering to read, particularly the comments that follow. You do have to ask yourself what exactly SAF and the owners had in mind when they went for Moyes. Stability just for the sake of stability?

Just another case of poor scouting. Still time to right things round by sacking Moyes now.

 

[Sarni]

At any other club he'd either be out the door already or get the sack in the Summer. We can pretend all we want that we are above it and it's not in the United way or something but it won't do us any good. The way I see it the longer he stays the more difficult it'll be for the next manager to fix us. He hasn't shown a thing that could be seen as a positive sign so far and we've been getting progressively worse.

This year we've lost to Spurs, Swansea, Chelsea, Sunderland and Stoke and we're not even halfway through February. This is just ridiculous.

But we're United and we do it United way. Cause it's proven science that any manager will come good if given time, not only we're going to keep a manager who turned league champions into a mid-table side but we are also going to reward him with north of £100m to spend on players.

 

[Ferguson]

Not long ago we were depending on the aging Scholes to rescue us from dire performances. Yet he had already retired once before and had had to come out of retirement.

How many times last season did RVP pull the rabbit out of the hat? Yet his time at Arsenal and the parting words of Arsenal fans indicated the very real possibility of injuries keeping him doing that season after season.

I think Cleverley is a true Red and a gifted talent, but his time out on loan, often stuck out on the wings rather than in the middle of the pitch, indicated only a squad player rather than the next Scholes or even the next Darren Fletcher.

The club should never have allowed Gill and Ferguson to retire at the same time. The club should have been more ruthless about finding a midfielder with Anderson's form, Fletcher's illness, and Scholes' decline.

The club likes to have a mix of players at every position. Experienced veterans in their 30s. Players in their mid to late 20s who are in their prime. The next generation of talents in their early 20s. We had Evra and Rio and Vidic in their 30s. We brought in young gifted defenders like Jones and Smalling. But only Evans could be said to be in the late 20s category for the defense. Even if a player is ready to start as a young talent like Raphael, you still need a mix of experience and youth in order to have success. Even Fergie's Fledglings had the likes of Keane and Cantona to steady them. The club left a gap there in our defense, and that is something that cannot be laid on Moyes' doorstep.

When Ferguson came to United he had the courage of his convictions. He implemented his ideas, and he fashioned the club in his own image even at the risk of being sacked. He was not an instant success, but he did have an instant impact.

Moyes has a more difficult challenge than Ferguson had to face. It requires a double dose of courage to make changes in the face of past success. How do you implement the tactics you have always put your trust in when they go against the ethos of the club which has already been successful without them? How do you lead a group of professionals who have experienced more success in the same league during the same period in which you have been making your name in management?

My view on the matter is this:

1) Moyes and Woodward now have the benefit of learning from the mistakes of this season. If we bring in a new manager, we may simply be suffering through another difficult season as the new manager learns the strengths and weaknesses of this squad for themselves. It is better for Manchester United to have Moyes in charge and working with Woodward for another year at least before cutting and running. Moyes must know now that he has no choice, but to find everything in him to right the ship. The honeymoon is over, and he can have no illusions (nor Woodward) about what needs to be done and done quickly.

2) The team is still playing for him. I thought the effort by the players was astounding on Sunday. Maybe the tactics felt like beating our head against a brick wall, but the pressure to win and the desire to succeed were there for all to see. Some of the players looked ready to weep after the final whistle.

3) United has been through bad patches before. Remember when Fergie threatened to retire the first time. The great man was still managing the club, and yet his declaration was enough to affect the performances on the pitch. His decision to stay gave a boost to the club without actually changing anything in another sense. Moyes' greatest challenge is the uncertainty that will hang over him until he can start getting the rub of the green. Sticking by Moyes is the best way to effect that positive change. Changing managers is as likely to do further damage as it is to fix what's broken.

So, I favor sticking by him. Give him the summer and another season to fix what is broken. He deserves that much.

When would I sack him (and move Woodward back to the commercial side)?

1) If another summer passes without addressing the needs in midfield, in defense and even elsewhere.

2) If the players stop playing for him.

3) If next season goes like this one. United has missed out on trophies in the past, but two trophyless seasons in a row is unthinkable in my opinion. Even if it is the Carling Cup, there must be a trophy and there must be a return to the top 4 at the minimum next season.

4) Bad luck. Success breeds success, but unfortunately failure can also breed failure. It may be at a certain point that perceptions and struggles in the fishbowl that is Old Trafford will overcome his ability to manage the club. But a rush to do this now would be a disaster in my opinion.

"Sack Fergie, sell Giggs" was the mantra for many years of many fans. We need to moderate our strong passions for the club with reason. We need to stick by the manager and give him time. Personally I am proud of the fan support inside Old Trafford this season, and every match means more this season because of the struggles. In a perverse fashion, this has been one of the most dramatic and compelling (and painful) seasons we've witnessed in many a year. Let's support the club and the manager and look forward to these players proving their quality if not this season, then the next.

 

[pete_8]

"I would like to remind you this club stood by me in bad times, the players and the staff," he said.

"Your job now is to stand by the new manager."

Discuss.

Big difference is Moyes took over The Champions. However if we sack him who do we get in? Can that person get us to win all of our remaining games? So I guess we are stuck with him. And while he is our manager we obviously support him.

 

[Lawman]

I can see the Chosen one banner getting replaced with a comedy Dave one. Moyes on a sticky wicket after a dreadful first season.

 

[gasmanc]

Moyes is really making it very difficult, I for one would love to get behind him and offer my full support, trouble being he's not really left us much positives to debate in his favour. Adnan,Rooney and the Mata all excellent but then we go out and misuse them on the field of play.
I was convinced we would smash Fulham on Sunday and as such my relationship with the manager is under huge strain, not the result more the manner of it. How many times can different people post the same sentence "he didn't change it despite it not working" I was there during our leaner years but I can honestly testify to never seeing anything so blatantly stupid from a set of players or management team, had we a real leader on the field on Sunday, the tactics would have been abandoned and the game likely won, it really does not bode well for Moyes plan to give Rooney the captaincy if the pair of them can't see that long balls on top of a windy hill is a cock up and also repeating the same sequence for 90 minutes each week will not suddenly start to work.
Can somebody from the pro Moyes camp please point out to me enough good reasons to stand by the manager given the glaring evidence pointing to the contrary.

 

[Sky1981]

This might sound cheesy, but I kinda look at the epic failure of this season (I don't believe it will get any better) is due to a couple of factors. Losing SAF was like losing a great general during the middle of a battle, like if you're lead by Alexander the Great and he suddenly kicks the bucket it will do something to you - morale will drop tremendously and you will find it hard to fight on. I think his departure had this effect on, at least some, of the team - maybe even a majority. You need a pretty strong and charismatic leader to fill those boots immediately, I think any manager would struggle.

There seems to be a lot going wrong these days, for various reasons, but I think the departure of SAF has a major influence on the squad still - the readjustment process must still be very difficult for the players. Everything will be compared to SAF.

I still want Moyes to succeed, I don't really see any good replacements at the moment. But something has to happen this summer.

That is different, back then the military units are a bunch of not so orderly band of fighters, you kill the general and the rest falls into confusion and chaos. We are a well oiled team with a solid chain of command and structure of a multi national company, there's no reason for us to crumble like the tower of babylon in just 6 mths, a gradual decline and lost of dominationn perhaps, but the rate that we are declining is biblically epic

 

[Sky1981]

Not long ago we were depending on the aging Scholes to rescue us from dire performances. Yet he had already retired once before and had had to come out of retirement.

How many times last season did RVP pull the rabbit out of the hat? Yet his time at Arsenal and the parting words of Arsenal fans indicated the very real possibility of injuries keeping him doing that season after season.

I think Cleverley is a true Red and a gifted talent, but his time out on loan, often stuck out on the wings rather than in the middle of the pitch, indicated only a squad player rather than the next Scholes or even the next Darren Fletcher.

The club should never have allowed Gill and Ferguson to retire at the same time. The club should have been more ruthless about finding a midfielder with Anderson's form, Fletcher's illness, and Scholes' decline.

The club likes to have a mix of players at every position. Experienced veterans in their 30s. Players in their mid to late 20s who are in their prime. The next generation of talents in their early 20s. We had Evra and Rio and Vidic in their 30s. We brought in young gifted defenders like Jones and Smalling. But only Evans could be said to be in the late 20s category for the defense. Even if a player is ready to start as a young talent like Raphael, you still need a mix of experience and youth in order to have success. Even Fergie's Fledglings had the likes of Keane and Cantona to steady them. The club left a gap there in our defense, and that is something that cannot be laid on Moyes' doorstep.

When Ferguson came to United he had the courage of his convictions. He implemented his ideas, and he fashioned the club in his own image even at the risk of being sacked. He was not an instant success, but he did have an instant impact.

Moyes has a more difficult challenge than Ferguson had to face. It requires a double dose of courage to make changes in the face of past success. How do you implement the tactics you have always put your trust in when they go against the ethos of the club which has already been successful without them? How do you lead a group of professionals who have experienced more success in the same league during the same period in which you have been making your name in management?

My view on the matter is this:

1) Moyes and Woodward now have the benefit of learning from the mistakes of this season. If we bring in a new manager, we may simply be suffering through another difficult season as the new manager learns the strengths and weaknesses of this squad for themselves. It is better for Manchester United to have Moyes in charge and working with Woodward for another year at least before cutting and running. Moyes must know now that he has no choice, but to find everything in him to right the ship. The honeymoon is over, and he can have no illusions (nor Woodward) about what needs to be done and done quickly.

2) The team is still playing for him. I thought the effort by the players was astounding on Sunday. Maybe the tactics felt like beating our head against a brick wall, but the pressure to win and the desire to succeed were there for all to see. Some of the players looked ready to weep after the final whistle.

3) United has been through bad patches before. Remember when Fergie threatened to retire the first time. The great man was still managing the club, and yet his declaration was enough to affect the performances on the pitch. His decision to stay gave a boost to the club without actually changing anything in another sense. Moyes' greatest challenge is the uncertainty that will hang over him until he can start getting the rub of the green. Sticking by Moyes is the best way to effect that positive change. Changing managers is as likely to do further damage as it is to fix what's broken.

So, I favor sticking by him. Give him the summer and another season to fix what is broken. He deserves that much.

When would I sack him (and move Woodward back to the commercial side)?

1) If another summer passes without addressing the needs in midfield, in defense and even elsewhere.

2) If the players stop playing for him.

3) If next season goes like this one. United has missed out on trophies in the past, but two trophyless seasons in a row is unthinkable in my opinion. Even if it is the Carling Cup, there must be a trophy and there must be a return to the top 4 at the minimum next season.

4) Bad luck. Success breeds success, but unfortunately failure can also breed failure. It may be at a certain point that perceptions and struggles in the fishbowl that is Old Trafford will overcome his ability to manage the club. But a rush to do this now would be a disaster in my opinion.

"Sack Fergie, sell Giggs" was the mantra for many years of many fans. We need to moderate our strong passions for the club with reason. We need to stick by the manager and give him time. Personally I am proud of the fan support inside Old Trafford this season, and every match means more this season because of the struggles. In a perverse fashion, this has been one of the most dramatic and compelling (and painful) seasons we've witnessed in many a year. Let's support the club and the manager and look forward to these players proving their quality if not this season, then the next.

I hate this argument, Ronaldo, Messi, ZIdane, RvP, Maradona, etc are part of the players, just because they are the one that comes up with goals and flair doesn't mean that their teams are doing nothing and they won it all by themselves.

RvP might scores goals out of nothing, but that doesn't mean the team didn't do any work at all and he's the only one winning those points.

We could probably says that Barca without Messi = us?

 

[Sky1981]

Not long ago we were depending on the aging Scholes to rescue us from dire performances. Yet he had already retired once before and had had to come out of retirement.

How many times last season did RVP pull the rabbit out of the hat? Yet his time at Arsenal and the parting words of Arsenal fans indicated the very real possibility of injuries keeping him doing that season after season.

I think Cleverley is a true Red and a gifted talent, but his time out on loan, often stuck out on the wings rather than in the middle of the pitch, indicated only a squad player rather than the next Scholes or even the next Darren Fletcher.

The club should never have allowed Gill and Ferguson to retire at the same time. The club should have been more ruthless about finding a midfielder with Anderson's form, Fletcher's illness, and Scholes' decline.

The club likes to have a mix of players at every position. Experienced veterans in their 30s. Players in their mid to late 20s who are in their prime. The next generation of talents in their early 20s. We had Evra and Rio and Vidic in their 30s. We brought in young gifted defenders like Jones and Smalling. But only Evans could be said to be in the late 20s category for the defense. Even if a player is ready to start as a young talent like Raphael, you still need a mix of experience and youth in order to have success. Even Fergie's Fledglings had the likes of Keane and Cantona to steady them. The club left a gap there in our defense, and that is something that cannot be laid on Moyes' doorstep.

Defence has been our forte IMHO

Evra / Fabio - Smailing/Jones/Evans/Vidic - Rafael / Varela (ocassionally smailing / jones can shift here)

That's far from GAP, you just have to rotate well so that Evra can get a rest.

When Ferguson came to United he had the courage of his convictions. He implemented his ideas, and he fashioned the club in his own image even at the risk of being sacked. He was not an instant success, but he did have an instant impact.

Moyes has no convictions, no Idea, no Image of what he wants his team to be, you see the difference?

Moyes has a more difficult challenge than Ferguson had to face. It requires a double dose of courage to make changes in the face of past success. How do you implement the tactics you have always put your trust in when they go against the ethos of the club which has already been successful without them? How do you lead a group of professionals who have experienced more success in the same league during the same period in which you have been making your name in management?

Again, the ethos of the club is the never say die attitude, grit, determination, anything, but playing "crosses from wing" is not one of them. If Moyes don't try to implement tactics he believe in because you fear backlash, it only shows he has no mental capacity to take over one of the biggest club in the world.

My view on the matter is this:

1) Moyes and Woodward now have the benefit of learning from the mistakes of this season. If we bring in a new manager, we may simply be suffering through another difficult season as the new manager learns the strengths and weaknesses of this squad for themselves. It is better for Manchester United to have Moyes in charge and working with Woodward for another year at least before cutting and running. Moyes must know now that he has no choice, but to find everything in him to right the ship. The honeymoon is over, and he can have no illusions (nor Woodward) about what needs to be done and done quickly.

How many seasons does he need? Moyes is an EPL veteran, pochetino, Rogers, Mourinho, Pelegriini hasn't managed in EPL as long as him, don't tell me he doesn't know how things work in this country.

2) The team is still playing for him. I thought the effort by the players was astounding on Sunday. Maybe the tactics felt like beating our head against a brick wall, but the pressure to win and the desire to succeed were there for all to see. Some of the players looked ready to weep after the final whistle.

He's lost the teams, in my eyes they deliberately cross it at sight just to spite him and kinda let him know that it doesnt fkin work.

3) United has been through bad patches before. Remember when Fergie threatened to retire the first time. The great man was still managing the club, and yet his declaration was enough to affect the performances on the pitch. His decision to stay gave a boost to the club without actually changing anything in another sense. Moyes' greatest challenge is the uncertainty that will hang over him until he can start getting the rub of the green. Sticking by Moyes is the best way to effect that positive change. Changing managers is as likely to do further damage as it is to fix what's broken.

This is not a bad patch, we are sinking at this rate. Lost at Sunderland, Everton, Newcastle, Cardiff, draw at Fulham, etc..... doesn't seems like bad patch, the wins looks more like bad patch.

So, I favor sticking by him. Give him the summer and another season to fix what is broken. He deserves that much.

You really think he can fix this? He's close to losing his job, if he won't start fixing it now, what makes you think he can fix it next year.

When would I sack him (and move Woodward back to the commercial side)?

1) If another summer passes without addressing the needs in midfield, in defense and even elsewhere.

2) If the players stop playing for him.

3) If next season goes like this one. United has missed out on trophies in the past, but two trophyless seasons in a row is unthinkable in my opinion. Even if it is the Carling Cup, there must be a trophy and there must be a return to the top 4 at the minimum next season.

4) Bad luck. Success breeds success, but unfortunately failure can also breed failure. It may be at a certain point that perceptions and struggles in the fishbowl that is Old Trafford will overcome his ability to manage the club. But a rush to do this now would be a disaster in my opinion.

"Sack Fergie, sell Giggs" was the mantra for many years of many fans. We need to moderate our strong passions for the club with reason. We need to stick by the manager and give him time. Personally I am proud of the fan support inside Old Trafford this season, and every match means more this season because of the struggles. In a perverse fashion, this has been one of the most dramatic and compelling (and painful) seasons we've witnessed in many a year. Let's support the club and the manager and look forward to these players proving their quality if not this season, then the next.

 

[soapythecat]

I found this on reddit today. It'll be worth a read for everyone.

An open letter to David Moyes

That letter could have been written may any number of United fans this week, with a few players names changed, and still rung true. It doesn't look good for us, does it?

How utterly depressing.

 

[Salfordlad70]

Looking through the recent threads being posted in it's all David Moyes or David Moyes related.It's all we are really discussing.Is this going to be it until our fortunes change? Footy seems to have taken a backseat.It's a shame really that everyone and myself included have this conundrum and it's becoming an obsession such is the obvious or understandable predicament we have found ourselves in.I have lost a little patience after the last two results/performances and I think he'll get the summer and a chance to have a second term.It the wheels come off/remain off he's in serious trouble.If he was to be sacked tomorrow I'd be annoyed, but more because it is us, Manchester United sacking a manager after 5 mins in charge.I am trying my best to be positive about him but it's hard work.I am sure others feel this way.Ideally he'll turn it round.I want nothing more than for him to do it.

 

[Sky1981]

Looking through the recent threads being posted in it's all David Moyes or David Moyes related.It's all we are really discussing.Is this going to be it until our fortunes change? Footy seems to have taken a backseat.It's a shame really that everyone and myself included have this conundrum and it's becoming an obsession such is the obvious or understandable predicament we have found ourselves in.I have lost a little patience after the last two results/performances and I think he'll get the summer and a chance to have a second term.It the wheels come off/remain off he's in serious trouble.If he was to be sacked tomorrow I'd be annoyed, but more because it is us, Manchester United sacking a manager after 5 mins in charge.I am trying my best to be positive about him but it's hard work.I am sure others feel this way.Ideally he'll turn it round.I want nothing more than for him to do it.

We really want a lot of things, but wanting it alone doesn't make Moyes suddenly expands his brain and vision and suddenly turned into Klopp / Pep / Mourinho.

You're kinda asking Bebe to train x3 and thinks he will turn into a ronaldo somehow. You can't explain how, you just think he will become Ronaldo.

 

[Salfordlad70]

That letter could have been written may any number of United fans this week, with a few players names changed, and still rung true. It doesn't look good for us, does it?

How utterly depressing.

Man, that is depressing!

 

[Salfordlad70]

We really want a lot of things, but wanting it alone doesn't make Moyes suddenly expands his brain and vision and suddenly turned into Klopp / Pep / Mourinho.

You're kinda asking Bebe to train x3 and thinks he will turn into a ronaldo somehow. You can't explain how, you just think he will become Ronaldo.

I don't actually want a lot of things.THat post explains how we're all so consumed by the Moyes situation.I explain I am losing my patience slowly and that I want him to succeed! I want and would like him to show uis he has the tools but I don't think he has but maybe I like you will be surprised.