Kudos for the restraint.
So what's your thought on the idea that, whilst the fora could do with a cull, many calling for it are guilty of double standards?
That Sensible Football Forum
- Thread starter Davo
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
So what's your thought on the idea that, whilst the fora could do with a cull, many calling for it are guilty of double standards?
Speaking for myself. I'm well up for it. In fact, I mentioned it a few weeks before Davo started this thread. To be fair at that time, this place was at an all time low. Even though it has improved. . .I still think an elitist forum would be a great idea. Plato would've agreed.Kudos for the restraint.
So what's your thought on the idea that, whilst the fora could do with a cull, many calling for it are guilty of double standards?
feck persuasion Plech - I just point out he can't debate for shit - I tend not to use my 'football knowledge' to humiliate anyone either - it's probably no better than Davo's - just better marshalled.
Well that old political wannabe would have been in favour - luckily few of us nowadays would go for something like the great lie.
The main point, however, is that the posters should be taking responsibility for their own posts rather than blaming others for 'sins' (for Plech) of which they themselves are guilty - or perhaps they are all Gerrards?
The fora do need cleaning up - and the mods appear to be trying - but the sort of crap advanced in this thread is no valid reason for creating a new elite forum. If they stopped being hypocritical then they might have more of a case.
You couldn't humiliate him even if you wanted to, which you do... he knows about 8 billion times more about football than you
Cock
I'm quite happy for you follow me around looking foolish on the whole, gets a bit tedious when it interrupts half decent football threads mind.
I've yet to see you post anything which portrays any semblence of football knowledge.....feel free to respond in your usual overworded manner how this isn't the case, and in fact it's my good self who's in the wrong.
Try and include the word "decipherment" that'll make you seem more intelligent, honestly...
Plato would've not agreed with that. Nor Khoresh of Persia.
Just do it already ... I'd like to see how it turns out.
Thanks for the support Afro, and the suggestion that such a move might help the gimps go outside more certainly adds weight to the argument
Still going for the senseless insults I see - what's the problem with using the correct plural of forum btw.
If Davo was as bad at football knowledge as he is at debate then he'd no longer be here given his posting tendencies.
Actually Plech, I have never tried to humiliate anyone on the Cafe, and I wouldn't want to do so. I'm happy to tell people when their arguments are shit though.
In contrast, your own posting history shows an occasional desire to try and humiliate others. You're also prone to insults - especially those of a discriminatory nature - but you probably reckon you're using them in some sort of post-ironic sense.
So pointing out that you're ignoring all the evidence and claiming you have seen something you could not when discussing the Torres/Terry and Ronaldo incidents counts as ruining a thread does it?
Why? Because you couldn't answer the charges and thus got shown up? - or because your continued denials derailed the rest of the thread?
Yes, that's a perfect summary of what we were talking about isn't it? As opposed to you repeating the same point over and over again whilst ignoring anything raised that did't suit your agenda.
Mind you, when someone truly believes that everyone is out to get Ronaldo, and the fact that he's a diving cnut has played no part in what's happened to him, you're pretty much assured that you're talking to a spastic.
Yes, that's an insult. Please don't humiliate me with your football knowledge or debating skills in a cruel act of revenge....
I had to repeat the same points about you being unable to see what you claim and the testimony of the best witness because your 'argument' (and I use the term loosely) relied entirely upon those 2 things to insist that the Torres/Terry incident was nothing whereas Ronaldo had committed a headbutt and deserved to be punished.
If you hadn't continually ignored the evidence and lied about what you could see I would not have had to keep drawing everyone's attention to the fact.
In contrast, you raised nothing that needed to be ignored, except your attempts at distraction.
If you guys do start this elite football forum could you please make sure that it's visable to all so that we may all bask in the light of your extraodinary posting abilities?
You could throw in a couple of deranged "sensible" posters, i.e. those that actually try to put forward a sensible argument and articulate something other than smilies... but their brain fails them.
I have to say I have no idea what has happened to this place but I find I can no longer be bothered to chip in and it rarely gets me into fits like it used to. And it got heavy handed but you wouldn't get any PC mod whinging about random abuse.
Last week I spent some time in the Classics. Man, those were the days. Devilish and his hairy girlfriend, SAF borrowing his phone, Gillespie and the scousers banging on about our demise in late 2002... (actually, where's that legendary thread with RUnited in a strop over being called ladyboy?). A much better place this was.
I now third, or fourth, or wherever it may now be in terms of supporting the motion.
Do you fancy setting up a new forum?
You could call it the RedCafe Non-Spastics Alliance (RNSA).
Technical know-how is available at the usual PM box if required.
No, you can rest assured that when I'm calling you a cock, I mean exactly what I say
You cock
Mods, this is exactly what we're talking about - a reasonable conversation has been derailed by some clueless gimp, meaning sensible posters have to spend valuable posting time responding to his daft arguments, and calling him a cock.
Can we have a sensible, elitist Admin Forum?
I think we should also have a No Richters forum. It'd be a forum where everyone's allowed to post, except Richter, who'd be banned. That'd shut him up
No Richters
No Richters
"SEE YOU AT THE PARTY, RICHTER"
So who should be the judges of who gets to be a part of the elite-forum?
Some of you who wants this elite-forum automatically assume that you are self-written as part of the elite.
But that's not always the case, and Plech you said so yourself a while back that your reputation regarding football knowledge is no longer that good, so why should you be picked ahead of someone else if we go by reputation?
And if you decided that the system should be like the newbie system then that would mean that mods and admins would be in charge of deciding who should be part of the elite.
Could any of you imagine Jason being part of a 'football knowledge and discussion'-jury?
And how many would you right now pick to be part of 'the elite'? My guess is not that many whereas you'd end up with having a few people to discuss things with in every thread which would be crap. The great thing about a big community is that even though you only post in a few threads that interest you then the debate is still going strong in other topics.
Just my 12 cents.
Some of you who wants this elite-forum automatically assume that you are self-written as part of the elite.
But that's not always the case, and Plech you said so yourself a while back that your reputation regarding football knowledge is no longer that good, so why should you be picked ahead of someone else if we go by reputation?
I only used you as an example as I could remember your post, there are obviously better examples of people who think they know all there is to know about football, but in reality don't know more than anyone else.
And if you decided that the system should be like the newbie system then that would mean that mods and admins would be in charge of deciding who should be part of the elite.
Could any of you imagine Jason being part of a 'football knowledge and discussion'-jury?
And how many would you right now pick to be part of 'the elite'? My guess is not that many whereas you'd end up with having a few people to discuss things with in every thread which would be crap. The great thing about a big community is that even though you only post in a few threads that interest you then the debate is still going strong in other topics.
Just my 12 cents.
Van would get in the Elitist Forum, we'd ignore his occasional outbursts because we love him
It'd basically be anyone who could form a coherent, football based opinion, without resorting to behaving like a blubbering, unamusing spastic, I'd have thought.
So yeah, about six people in total, and me, as I'd let myself in regardless, and ruin it for everyone
You'd have to stop saying absurdly cosey things about Davo though, or id ruin it by e-vomitting myself inside out
Who would decide who gets in by the way?
I find the whole idea of debating football so pretentious and fake anyway, it's almost too partisan an issue. It's like those plebs who go on to 606; 'Can I just say the Charlton fans were absolutely superb to us today, we all walked in together, had a bit of banter and had a great day out'. No, shut up.
Not sure where im going with this post...
Alpacas?
Who would decide who gets in by the way?
I find the whole idea of debating football so pretentious and fake anyway, it's almost too partisan an issue. It's like those plebs who go on to 606; 'Can I just say the Charlton fans were absolutely superb to us today, we all walked in together, had a bit of banter and had a great day out'. No, shut up.
Not sure where im going with this post...
Alpacas?
It's a fair point, the issue of how you choose them is a tricky one
I can't remember whether every particular poster is clued up about the game or not, and I doubt many others can
Probably the best way would be to let everyone in apart from known and agreed cretins (that would have to be decided by the mods, perhaps with a bit of help from posters deemed to know their shit) - then turf the remaining annoyances out once they declared themselves by derailing threads
Re myself, if I don't get selected, I honestly won't give a toss, I post far too much on here anyway.
What happens when people want an Elite MUFC forum or General?
If posters, particularly rival fans, dont like the response their threads get they shouldnt act like Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
That or just ban those you think incapable of consensual back-scratching from the FF, I suppose.
Then surely it would just be better to keep the current football-forum and just ban the tossers from posting. In other words a more direct and stricter line by the mods. Though I'd hate to see that happen.
I personally don't see any reason to create a new forum.
There's a world of difference between a good football conversation and the Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime who ring 606You'd have to stop saying absurdly cosey things about Davo though, or id ruin it by e-vomitting myself inside out
Who would decide who gets in by the way?
I find the whole idea of debating football so pretentious and fake anyway, it's almost too partisan an issue. It's like those plebs who go on to 606; 'Can I just say the Charlton fans were absolutely superb to us today, we all walked in together, had a bit of banter and had a great day out'. No, shut up.
Not sure where im going with this post...
Alpacas?
You obviously don't really think the idea of debating football is pretentious and fake, you do it yourself all the time, you fecking love it like we all do. Talking about football is like talking about anything, music, boning, politics, whatever - it can be done pretentiously, where the main point is to come across a certain way, or it can be done for the fun of chatting and the off-chance that someone might say something interesting that changes your mind.
In fact, it's you being pretentious - a bit like you were in that film thread. Adopting the pose of the bluff no-nonsense straight-talking man of the world. What a load of bollocks.
I think the point Davo was making was that there's a place for mud-slinging and abuse, it can be a laugh, but it gets a bit irritating when there's actually the chance of a decent conversation.
Eh? Not really, I do like debating, obviously, in fact I love it, I just don't like back scratching. Particularly between Football fans of teams who hate each other, it just seems forced. And back scratching is what threads like that will inevitably turn in to and subsist on.
That's not really debate is it?
Thats the thing. With music, politics, film etc. people can genuinely influence my opinion on things, but I could never imagine something Davo said changing my mind on Football or United, because I know everything he says is coming from a stubborn, rigidly Scouse bastard position.
Debate amongst United fans is a different thing, there's nowhere near as much pride involved.
That's not really debate is it?
Thats the thing. With music, politics, film etc. people can genuinely influence my opinion on things, but I could never imagine something Davo said changing my mind on Football or United, because I know everything he says is coming from a stubborn, rigidly Scouse bastard position.
Debate amongst United fans is a different thing, there's nowhere near as much pride involved.
You're right it's a pub not a private club. It's not as if the golden age with elite posters was any better - you'd get Weaste boring everybody to death with Ruben Baraja is the new Keane every five minutes, a raft of posters called BeckXXXX claiming he was world class and the RvNXXX claiming he was better than you know who.
Actually, to be fair, I have had decent Football discussions with Football fans and Liverpool fans, but theyve all been in 'real life'.
The thing with the internet and forums is you know most fans of other teams are just here to wind up 'the mancs' or watch for our reaction when things go against us.
The thing with the internet and forums is you know most fans of other teams are just here to wind up 'the mancs' or watch for our reaction when things go against us.
So why say you don't?
On the contrary, I think discussion with fellow United fans can get a bit dull at times. Getting the perspective of a fan who isn't biased your way tends to open things up a bit.
Look, it's not a question of back-scratching - whether you like it or not, some of the oppo fans, including the likes of Davo, Sutty, peterstorey, know their onions when it comes to football, at least as much as the better United posters. There's no point pretending this isn't the case, just cos you don't want it to be. After all, why would United fans in particular know more about football?
In the actual forum, we wouldn't spend the whole time saying, "Ooh you're so knowledgeable," we'd just discuss things about football. In fact, there'd have to be a certain level of good-natured banter/abuse allowable even on there, or it would indeed be a bit forced.
Eh? I prefer debating with rival fans. It's not back scratching, it's just getting an opinion from someone with a different viewpoint.
If anything I find debating with other United fans a bit tedius. It's always the same one tracked, obnoxious, pretentious bullshit. People just see what they want to, regardless, and then refuse to accept anything else, which makes debate pretty much pointless.
Davo has a point. You'll be trying to engage in decent debate with someone, and then a posse of cretins will invade the thread, and start trying to score points by spouting irrelevant drivel, which drags on for several pages, and often across several threads.
hehe, true that.
The majority of posts by DJS, njred, Dumpstar are probably wind-ups. Davo obviously takes the piss most of the time, but when there's a decent thread he posts thoughtful stuff until cretins start taking pops at him. Sutty, Murphman, LWAR etc don't post much in the way of piss-takes. Virtually none of the gooners except Gillespie do... peter will sometimes be purely taking the piss if he's in that mood, but again if the conversation's decent he will pitch in.
The point is that in a sensible forum they'd stay in the spirit of it, if they didn;t then like any of us Mancs they'd be turfed out.
I probably should have been more specific, I just feel debating Football on the internet with rival fans comes across as a bit fake and forced. I obviously like discussing things, im doing it right now for example, at 'kin 2am.
Talking 'objectively' with Liverpool fans on here just seems impossible to do when you have people like Davo, njred etc. who are, fairly understandbly, inflexible when it comes to their own team, just like many of our own posters, myself included at times. Discussion and debate only works if both side are open minded and willing to bend and conceed on certain points. Really intense rivalry is so partisan it's difficult to imagine enough people being genuinely objective and philosophical about it. Admittedly you seem one of the few people for whom that comes quite naturally on most subjects, and respect to you for that (I feel respect should have apostrophes around it!).
Take for example something Davo posted earlier. He called Dudek 'a useless cnut'. Obviously he's had this opinion a while, given Dudek has been shit for some time, but do you think Davo would have admitted this say, six months ago whilst he was still a Liverpool player? Of course not, because his instinct is to stick by his team and not lose face. If you can change that instinct in Football fans and football forums, then you'd have yourself the forum you are asking for. Otherwise I just dont see how it'll work.
Talking 'objectively' with Liverpool fans on here just seems impossible to do when you have people like Davo, njred etc. who are, fairly understandbly, inflexible when it comes to their own team, just like many of our own posters, myself included at times. Discussion and debate only works if both side are open minded and willing to bend and conceed on certain points. Really intense rivalry is so partisan it's difficult to imagine enough people being genuinely objective and philosophical about it. Admittedly you seem one of the few people for whom that comes quite naturally on most subjects, and respect to you for that (I feel respect should have apostrophes around it!).
Take for example something Davo posted earlier. He called Dudek 'a useless cnut'. Obviously he's had this opinion a while, given Dudek has been shit for some time, but do you think Davo would have admitted this say, six months ago whilst he was still a Liverpool player? Of course not, because his instinct is to stick by his team and not lose face. If you can change that instinct in Football fans and football forums, then you'd have yourself the forum you are asking for. Otherwise I just dont see how it'll work.