The “Ole In” Brigade

[Enigma_87]

Yet you want them to sack him and we end up with god knows who and the glazers get more time to milk us.

They will be milking us either way.

If they keep Ole it won't require further investment from them - they will sell the young hungry British players crap and Ole embraces it.

A proven manager won't buy that crap and won't be just a puppet in their hands, where the difference lies.

Ole is part of the structure you are fighting against and a big part currently considering he is their mouthpiece.

 

[Enigma_87]

under whose watch Mata and Jones were given contracts?

And Pereira.

 

[fergieisold]

I'm really surprised people continue to forget our current status in the league. Where would you place us now under any manager? Above Chelsea? Leicester? Going toe to toe with the likes of City and Liverpool?

People have short memories. You fully expect City to come and beat us and then want to sack the manager when he doesn't dominate them, it's amazing!

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm really surprised people continue to forget our current status in the league. Where would you place us now under any manager? Above Chelsea? Leicester? Going toe to toe with the likes of City and Liverpool?

People have short memories. You fully expect City to come and beat us and then want to sack the manager when he doesn't dominate them, it's amazing!

We were 6 points off Chelsea last year, who had a transfer ban, a new manager and lost their best player.

We were 14 points above Leicester last year, took their best defender for 80m and they strengthened their team with Praet and Perez, whilst we spent 150m.

Who should we compare with? Aston Villa?

 

[JPRouve]

They will be milking us either way.

If they keep Ole it won't require further investment from them - they will sell the young hungry British players crap and Ole embraces it.

A proven manager won't buy that crap and won't be just a puppet in their hands, where the difference lies.

Ole is part of the structure you are fighting against and a big part currently considering he is their mouthpiece.

You see I don't get this. You know that we spent a fortune with all managers, that we are currently still spending big due to those decisions, you know that young hungry british players are probably the most expensive commodity in football but you play the "not require further investment" angle. The problem isn't and has never been a lack of investment or will to invest.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

They will be milking us either way.

If they keep Ole it won't require further investment from them - they will sell the young hungry British players crap and Ole embraces it.

A proven manager won't buy that crap and won't be just a puppet in their hands, where the difference lies.

Ole is part of the structure you are fighting against and a big part currently considering he is their mouthpiece.

So the solution is to let them sack him and then let them decide who to hire?

I can’t see what can possibly go wrong.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We were 6 points off Chelsea last year, who had a transfer ban, a new manager and lost their best player.

We were 14 points above Leicester last year, took their best defender for 80m and they strengthened their team with Praet and Perez, whilst we spent 150m.

Who should we compare with? Aston Villa?

The fact he lumped Leicester in there shows he’s completely unable to have a negative thought on the matter, he’s so firmly in Ole in that the mere idea of competing with the great Leicester squad that Rogers took over in February, miles behind United in 12th is ridiculous to him.

It’s absolutely pointless debating with him, at this stage the self proclaimed “Ole In brigade” are the same as climate change deniers, it doesn’t matter how much hard evidence you throw their way.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So the solution is to let them sack him and then let them decide who to hire?

I can’t see what can possibly go wrong.

Well the 3 previous managers did a damn site better than this one so I’d say removing him is a good start.

We aint removing the owners of a multi billion dollar business, we can easily replace the manager with a better one.

 

[romufc]

You fully expect City to come and beat us and then want to sack the manager when he doesn't dominate them, it's amazing!

No one expects us to dominate City but that first half display was not worthy of being a Manutd manager.

This is a derby and we were so toothless, no aggression, so soft. They created chance after chance, it could have been 7-0 in the first half alone.

Managers in the relegation zone get sacked for those performances.

This is still a derby, and Manutd where the manager has spent £150m. We expect hell alot more than what we got yesterday.

 

[Enigma_87]

You see I don't get this. You know that we spent a fortune with all managers, that we are currently still spending big due to those decisions, you know that young hungry british players are probably the most expensive commodity in football but you play the "not require further investment" angle. The problem isn't and has never been a lack of investment or will to invest.

Precisely. I don't get it. People are blaming the board of lack of investment yet criticizing it for putting a billion down the drain.. Mind boggling.

So the solution is to let them sack him and then let them decide who to hire?

I can’t see what can possibly go wrong.

A much better solution than continue with an inept manager just for the sake of it.

The fact he lumped Leicester in there shows he’s completely unable to have a negative thought on the matter, he’s so firmly in Ole in that the mere idea of competing with the great Leicester squad that Rogers took over in February, miles behind United in 12th is ridiculous to him.

It’s absolutely pointless debating with him, at this stage the self proclaimed “Ole In brigade” are the same as climate change deniers, it doesn’t matter how much hard evidence you throw their way.

The only difference in Leicester rise was changing managers, yet now you see the angle of them being well ran club as reason of their short term success currently

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

If you don't want to sack Ole because we don't have good enough players so there's not much he can do then that's just stupid. There's evidence that a good manager can actually coach a team with worse players than us to actually play good football that's not counter attack.

If you don't want Ole to be sacked because we're 5th on the table and we're actually doing alright considering the quality of the squad. Then know this, not many people are expecting top 4 especially without reinforcement this January but the one thing we expect is that after a year in charge of this team, a competent manager is meant to have coached the team to be capable of playing good football that's not counter attack. If you don't think the players are good enough for this, look at the first paragraph.

If you don't want Ole to be sacked because of his long term vision and believe he is building a squad. Then I have no words for you. I just wonder why you would think a man with a CV worse than Moyes or LVG or Mourinho is competent enough to rebuild. Maybe beacause he understands the club, culture and has the club's best interest at heart. Let's get Neville then or Ji Sung Park. Look how bad Klopp is doing at Liverpool because he doesn't know their culture.

If you don't want Ole to be sacked because getting a new manager under this board won't change anything and we would still be where we are then at least it will change the fecking style of play and tactics. Pochettino, Nagelsmann, Rose, etc they all may not be able to get us top 4 with these players and the board or get us to be able to beat City with Jones and Lingard but they would at least get us to start playing better rather than just relying on basic counter attack tactic or moment of brilliance from Rashford. LVG, Mourinho and Moyes were criticised for the way they had us playing so why does Ole get a free pass? Because the players are not good enough? Again go back to the first paragraph

It's the way he has us fecking playing and it always has been the reason I wanted him out. I agree the players are not good enough for top 4, the board is shit and it's hard for managers to get us back to glory under them, I agree that Ole does care about the club and has a plan and a vision that takes time to be carried out. But he has been here for over a year now enough time to drill a style of play and tactic into the team and what has Ole done with that. He has transformed us into a side that is only good at the basic counter attacking tactic. If you expect better tactics from a manager that got Cardiff relegated and coached in Molde for most of his time then I don't know what to say to you.

So blame it on the players that are not good enough for top 4, blame it on the board that got us in this mess, but don't fecking leave the manager out because he has us looking clueless in anything other than counter attacking. Meanwhile his peers like Bielsa, Rose, Potter are able to coach their teams that have worse players to play better football than us

 

[Tel074]

You are bigger clown because it was Ole himself who kept these players. He also got rid of Fellaini and Smalling and accepting that what he has is good enough. These players are not as bad as you make them out to be. They are all International players. Get them a decent manager and they will play a lot better. Even a blind ,man can see that City did not have an CFs. Yet Ole could not see that and push one of our CBs into that space. Jones and Lindelof did not have anyone to even mark and floundered because the manager did not change the tactics. You give this team to Pep and he may not win anything but for sure he will get us to play a lot better football.

Some of them have had 4 managers and have been shit for each one .unless you have been asleep you would be aware we have tried to get rid of some of them players for years but they earn crazy money which No1 else would pay plus if One had got rid of all of them out squad would be even worse

You are bigger clown because it was Ole himself who kept these players. He also got rid of Fellaini and Smalling and accepting that what he has is good enough. These players are not as bad as you make them out to be. They are all International players. Get them a decent manager and they will play a lot better. Even a blind ,man can see that City did not have an CFs. Yet Ole could not see that and push one of our CBs into that space. Jones and Lindelof did not have anyone to even mark and floundered because the manager did not change the tactics. You give this team to Pep and he may not win anything but for sure he will get us to play a lot better football.

You give this team to Pep and he would have looked at it and asked for 2 full backs a CB 2 midfielders a winger and a striker .

Accept we are shit accept the board are shafting us and have been for a decade . No manager in the world could make Jones Matic Mata Lingard Pereira better players because each and every one are either finished or just are not good enough

 

[Tel074]

Note sure how this one got promoted.

Tell me any manager who would make these players better I think we've a forgotten those numerous CLs won by Ole who is clearly the very best in the business.

Do you remember the CL,s Jose won ? Do you remember all of them being total shit for him as well ? Go back to bed kid

 

[Tel074]

You forgot to add Shaw and Bailly to that list.

I agree I did forget . It's crazy the squad we have assembled over the past 8 years .

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Do you remember the CL,s Jose won ? Do you remember all of them being total shit for him as well ? Go back to bed kid

You do remember Jose did a miles better job here than Ole right?

 

[Enigma_87]

Some of them have had 4 managers and have been shit for each one .unless you have been asleep you would be aware we have tried to get rid of some of them players for years but they earn crazy money which No1 else would pay plus if One had got rid of all of them out squad would be even worse



You give this team to Pep and he would have looked at it and asked for 2 full backs a CB 2 midfielders a winger and a striker .

Accept we are shit accept the board are shafting us and have been for a decade . No manager in the world could make Jones Matic Mata Lingard Pereira better players because each and every one are either finished or just are not good enough

Yet you are backing the one that gave those new contracts.

 

[Tel074]

under whose watch Mata and Jones were given contracts?

Yep under Ole but I personally think they where giving new deals because they weren't going to be replaced and we need a squad . Smalling wanted to leave but we couldn't get anyone mental enough to take Jones or Rojo so Smalling went .

 

[OleBoiii]

Ole In

I'm not an expert, but I've been watching and playing football since the early 90's. I've read countless articles and books, including the book of my biggest idol, Fergie. Based on this, I'm not at all convinced that the manager is the problem. I genuinely believe that both Klopp and Pep would struggle to make top 4 with this squad. Especially with Pogba out for practically the whole season so far.

Even successful coaches like Fergie and Pep will admit that good results primarily depend on the squad at your disposal. How many PL titles did Fergie win where he didn't have the best or second best squad on paper? I'd argue zero. Leicester is practically the only exception in the PL era.

On paper, where does this squad(minus Pogba) rank? 5th? 6th? Well that's where we are right now. And we are still in all the cups. I will agree that we have dropped an unnecessary amount of points, but I think most of these can be blamed on individual defensive errors and poor finishing, rather than wrong tactics or bad man-management.

I think the main reason for why people want Ole out is because he's largely unproven. Every small setback becomes fuel to the fire for the Ole Out Brigade. Had Klopp been in charge and gotten the same poor results, then people would be significantly more patient. I can sort of understand this perspective, but there is one problem: if a proven manager probably would struggle just as much as Ole, then why does his current struggles somehow prove that he is not up to the task? Just as we can't prove that Ole is right for the job, you can't prove that he's not.

Before kicking out a club legend, ask yourself these questions:

1. Where does this squad rank without Pogba?
2. Let's say you answer "5th" to the question above: how many spots on the table should a top manager manage to climb?
3. How much blame can you put on Solskjær for us not signing any midfielders last summer?
4. How much is Solskjær to blame for the injuries on important players(Pogba, Martial, McTominay, Maguire, AWB)?
5. How much is Solskjær to blame for individual player mistakes and poor finishing costing us valuable points?

In summary
- Have his transfers been poor? No, they've been very good actually.
- Is our position on the table significantly worse than expected? No, we're right about where we belong.
- Do the players seem to dislike him? No, the opposite actually.

Because of this, I simply can't justify being "Ole Out" at this stage. And until at least one of the three statements above is true, I will remain Ole In. At least for another year or so.

 

[Massive Spanner]

- Have his transfers been poor? No, they've been very good actually.
- Is our position on the table was significantly worse than expected? No, we're right about where we belong.
- Do the players seem to dislike him? No, the opposite actually.

Because of this, I simply can't justify being "Ole Out" at this stage. And until at least one of the three statements above is true, I will remain Ole In. At least for another year or so.

We have 8 wins in 21 games. His win percentage is 27% as a permanent manager. He spent £80m on a modest upgrade at CB. But yay, the players seem to like him, he's a nice guy, so all is well!

How the feck you people can try spin this shit as a positive is beyond me.

 

[Tel074]

You do remember Jose did a miles better job here than Ole right?

Did he ? 1st season aside we where shit under Jose . I remember going to OT watching a group of players not wanting to play and I remember when Jose left watching the best football since Ferguson times ..

I'm not saying Ole has got what it takes but what I am saying is we could have Pep and not even he could have that side playing well regularly.

We need a huge turn around of playing staff at the club and hopefully we do more of that in this January window

 

[jackal&hyde]

The state of the squad is the responsability of LVG and Mourinho that each spend about 400 mil with the vast majority of the buys being duds. The true culprit is Woody/Glazers for not having someone that oversaw the direction of the club/player acquisitions and allowed the same power that SAF had to managers that are not good enough to do the same job.

We are actually moving in the right direction now but it's a time for support not new resets. Today we beat City in the league where we were unlucky not to be 4-0 up at half time, tomorrow while playing some reserves we lose and are lucky not to be 4-5 down after first half. Transitions are painful but they are worth it if you stick with it.

 

[JPRouve]

We have 8 wins in 21 games. His win percentage is 27% as a permanent manager. He spent £80m on a modest upgrade at CB.

How the feck you people can try spin this shit as a positive is beyond me.

Objectively, none of his signings have been very good. We can rank them from below par for Maguire to on par for AWB and James.

 

[OleBoiii]

We have 8 wins in 21 games. His win percentage is 27% as a permanent manager. He spent £80m on a modest upgrade at CB.

How the feck you people can try spin this shit as a positive is beyond me.

Table placement > points. Our level compared to our opponents is what matters the most. Getting 90 points and finishing 2nd is worse than getting 80 points and finishing 1st.

 

[Tel074]

Yet you are backing the one that gave those new contracts.

I'm backing No1 . I'm saying we need to stop blaming the manager for everything at this club .

The board and owners are shocking and they are the ones that should be getting the supporters fury.

I named a bunch of players we have 9/10 players who have somehow found themselves to be United players and until we rid ourselves of them and get in new players we will continue to be shit .

If Ole had got another 5 last summer I'd be agreeing saying ok sack him but he hasn't and like Jose he was left short from what he wanted and needed .

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Do you remember the CL,s Jose won ? Do you remember all of them being total shit for him as well ? Go back to bed kid

So totally shit he managed to finish 2nd and win the Europa League. Mourinho actually didn't do a good enough job at United and I never warmed to him either. But at least he was a great manager once upon a time. Ole has never been that and looks incapable of ever being one.

Love the irony of posting like a 5 year old scrambled 5 illogical thoughts together, and calling others 'kid'.

 

[devilish]

Yep under Ole but I personally think they where giving new deals because they weren't going to be replaced and we need a squad . Smalling wanted to leave but we couldn't get anyone mental enough to take Jones or Rojo so Smalling went .

If Ole told him that he'll get a fair crack of the whip in terms of first team football then Smalling would have probably stayed. Regarding Mata and Jones you can't really say that Ole got rid of the deadwood when he kept the two biggest deadwood at the club

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Did he ? 1st season aside we where shit under Jose .

He did yes, a miles better job.

Check out Ole’s win percentage vs Jose, the facts are clear and damning. Van Gaal also.

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm backing No1 . I'm saying we need to stop blaming the manager for everything at this club .

The board and owners are shocking and they are the ones that should be getting the supporters fury.

I named a bunch of players we have 9/10 players who have somehow found themselves to be United players and until we rid ourselves of them and get in new players we will continue to be shit .

If Ole had got another 5 last summer I'd be agreeing saying ok sack him but he hasn't and like Jose he was left short from what he wanted and needed .

We are not blaming the manager for everything at the club. We are blaming him for poor record, poor football, poor results and so forth.

You need 5 last summers to determine a shite manager?

I'm guessing Moyes should have been given 6 years then?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So totally shit he managed to finish 2nd and win the Europa League. Mourinho actually didn't do a good enough job at United and I never warmed to him either. But at least he was a great manager once upon a time. Ole has never been that and looks incapable of ever being one.

Love the irony of posting like a 5 year old scrambled 5 illogical thoughts together, and calling others 'kid'.

Ha ha.

Mourinho wasn’t good enough in the end for Manchester United, that much 99% agree with. Yet some of that 99% want Ole to stay for years despite being miles worse than Mourinho.

I don’t get it, it throws every single bit of logic out of the universe.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Table placement > points. Our level compared to our opponents is what matters the most. Getting 90 points and finishing 2nd is worse than getting 80 points and finishing 1st.

We've 5 points off 4th, 13 points off 3rd, 14 points off second. We're as close to 10th as 4th and as close to 19th as 3rd.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm backing No1 . I'm saying we need to stop blaming the manager for everything at this club .

The board and owners are shocking and they are the ones that should be getting the supporters fury.

I named a bunch of players we have 9/10 players who have somehow found themselves to be United players and until we rid ourselves of them and get in new players we will continue to be shit .

If Ole had got another 5 last summer I'd be agreeing saying ok sack him but he hasn't and like Jose he was left short from what he wanted and needed .

Mourinho spent around 400m and increased our wage bill by more than 100m. If that's being left short from what he wanted and needed then something was properly wrong with him.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We've 5 points off 4th, 13 points off 3rd, 14 points off second. We're as close to 10th as 4th and as close to 19th as 3rd.

I think we all need to give up trying to convince climate deniers to see the evidence.

 

[Maajid]

I'm really surprised people continue to forget our current status in the league. Where would you place us now under any manager? Above Chelsea? Leicester? Going toe to toe with the likes of City and Liverpool?

People have short memories. You fully expect City to come and beat us and then want to sack the manager when he doesn't dominate them, it's amazing!

Nonsense. Our current status (I'm assuming you mean position?) in the league is a function of the manager's performance not an impediment to it. The notion that you can only do well if you have top quality players is fatuous; top coaches do more with less, they organise the team, they coach and make ordinary players perform better than they would under an mediocre manager, there is a consistent upward if gradual trajectory to performances as more and more training sessions are taken. Losses are fine, they can happen but the performances, the plans, the ideas is something where a top echelon coach distinguishes himself and nowhere in his managerial career has Solskjaer shown that he is one of those.

 

[Tel074]

Objectively, none of his signings have been very good. We can rank them from below par for Maguire to on par for AWB and James.

Without Maguire we would be way worse . Our midfi

We are not blaming the manager for everything at the club. We are blaming him for poor record, poor football, poor results and so forth.

You need 5 last summers to determine a shite manager?

I'm guessing Moyes should have been given 6 years then?

5 more players last summer

 

[jderbyshire]

under whose watch Mata and Jones were given contracts?

To be fair, Jones was given a new contract while Ole will still interim manager, so I doubt he had any influence on that.

Mata I'm guessing was a case of the club realising they weren't going to get the midfield targets they wanted and keeping him around to make up the numbers.

 

[Oldyella]

Ha ha.

Mourinho wasn’t good enough in the end for Manchester United, that much 99% agree with. Yet some of that 99% want Ole to stay for years despite being miles worse than Mourinho.

I don’t get it, it throws every single bit of logic out of the universe.

Its baffling. I loved Ole as a player, but its obvious to see that this job is too big for him, and he doesn't have a previous record to lean on that says he can ever turn this around.

 

[el3mel]

Without Maguire we would be way worse . Our midfi



5 more players last summer

So we needed to sign 8 players last summer to be able to play good enough? How much would that have costed with the current prices, 600m?

 

[OleBoiii]

We've 5 points off 4th, 13 points off 3rd, 14 points off second. We're as close to 10th as 4th and as close to 19th as 3rd.

This just proves that 3 teams are way ahead of the rest of the league.

Even without injuries, I wouldn't expect us be top 3 anyways.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Ole In

I'm not an expert, but I've been watching and playing football since the early 90's. I've read countless articles and books, including the book of my biggest idol, Fergie. Based on this, I'm not at all convinced that the manager is the problem. I genuinely believe that both Klopp and Pep would struggle to make top 4 with this squad. Especially with Pogba out for practically the whole season so far.

Even successful coaches like Fergie and Pep will admit that good results primarily depend on the squad at your disposal. How many PL titles did Fergie win where he didn't have the best or second best squad on paper? I'd argue zero. Leicester is practically the only exception in the PL era.

On paper, where does this squad(minus Pogba) rank? 5th? 6th? Well that's where we are right now. And we are still in all the cups. I will agree that we have dropped an unnecessary amount of points, but I think most of these can be blamed on individual defensive errors and poor finishing, rather than wrong tactics or bad man-management.

I think the main reason for why people want Ole out is because he's largely unproven. Every small setback becomes fuel to the fire for the Ole Out Brigade. Had Klopp been in charge and gotten the same poor results, then people would be significantly more patient. I can sort of understand this perspective, but there is one problem: if a proven manager probably would struggle just as much as Ole, then why does his current struggles somehow prove that he is not up to the task? Just as we can't prove that Ole is right for the job, you can't prove that he's not.

Before kicking out a club legend, ask yourself these questions:

1. Where does this squad rank without Pogba?
2. Let's say you answer "5th" to the question above: how many spots on the table should a top manager manage to climb?
3. How much blame can you put on Solskjær for us not signing any midfielders last summer?
4. How much is Solskjær to blame for the injuries on important players(Pogba, Martial, McTominay, Maguire, AWB)?
5. How much is Solskjær to blame for individual player mistakes and poor finishing costing us valuable points?

In summary
- Have his transfers been poor? No, they've been very good actually.
- Is our position on the table significantly worse than expected? No, we're right about where we belong.
- Do the players seem to dislike him? No, the opposite actually.

Because of this, I simply can't justify being "Ole Out" at this stage. And until at least one of the three statements above is true, I will remain Ole In. At least for another year or so.

Its mind boggling, the extent of logical gymnastic some do to support their views.

We have a roster space for a 25 man squad like every other PL team, and, injured or not, Pogba is a part of that squad. So the idea of ranking the squad without Pogba is just silly. Injuries are part of the game, and no manager gets excused for it. If the loss of a single player cripples your team, then its the manager's fault for putting all his eggs in one basket.

Besides Liverpool, and City, we have a squad that is equal or better than the rest. The likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs cant be said to have a clearly better squad, while we have a better squad than Leicester imo.

If those teams are doing better than us, then the difference would be in the coaching. Ole has had enough time to put his ideas to work and what we see now, is most likely what we would see going forward. Yes, things can improve if he has better players, but he hasnt done well enough with what he has at the moment imo

 

[fergieisold]

Nonsense. Our current status (I'm assuming you mean position?) in the league is a function of the manager's performance not an impediment to it. The notion that you can only do well if you have top quality players is fatuous; top coaches do more with less, they organise the team, they coach and make ordinary players perform better than they would under an mediocre manager, there is a consistent upward if gradual trajectory to performances as more and more training sessions are taken. Losses are fine, they can happen but the performances, the plans, the ideas is something where a top echelon coach distinguishes himself and nowhere in his managerial career has Solskjaer shown that he is one of those.

Where should we finish in the league based on our squad? Pick you manager. Would we be above City? Liverpool?