The “Ole In” Brigade

[Bojan11]

I dont hold Ole totally accountable.

I wrote our season off when McTominay got injured. We have just about 11 players that are capable of playing the way Ole wants us to play. As soon as we lost one of them, and in such a critical area, I knew it would be tough. It's not simply that the replacements are worse, it is that the replacements suit a totally different style of play. Now we have a team full of players who play in different ways and it's no wonder we look so disjointed. As slowly others have gone it gets worse each time.

That we have such a disjointed squad is not Ole's fault. If he could have replaced McT with somebody with an equal skillset it would have been much easier. It doesn't matter how good the individuals are, at PL level cohesion is the most important thing.

Writing off a season because Mctominay got injured.

Do you not see how silly that sounds? Scotts been good in a few big games. But he’s bang average when it comes to passing the ball forward or when we need to break teams down.

If Ole didn’t waste the summer chasing average like Longstaff because he clearly knew the CM position needed strengthening, so no idea why we just decided it was Longstaff or nobody then things might have been better.

 

[Cassidy]

We’re not asking a dog to give us concrete grades for a foundation. We’re asking a man who spent 10+ years playing under our most successful manager to recreate the ethos and group mentality that made us successful. If you want to be oblique, fine. I never said he doesn’t know what he’s doing, I just acknowledged he’s not the man to complete the task.

Give us your three players and your vague idea as to coaching, we’ll do that instead and Mr Pigeon can answer for it in two years when we’re still 5th and poorer than we are now with new dead wood to clear out.

We’re asking a man who has never shown any ability to create such ethos and group mentality

We are then backing him when he is clearly failing

 

[Enigma_87]

We’re not asking a dog to give us concrete grades for a foundation. We’re asking a man who spent 10+ years playing under our most successful manager to recreate the ethos and group mentality that made us successful. If you want to be oblique, fine. I never said he doesn’t know what he’s doing, I just acknowledged he’s not the man to complete the task.

Give us your three players and your vague idea as to coaching, we’ll do that instead and Mr Pigeon can answer for it in two years when we’re still 5th and poorer than we are now with new dead wood to clear out.

Bull fecking shit.

This is not Ole running an asylum or AA gathering. The man is inept and probably as qualified as that dog with the pool.

Playing under Fergie means feck all. O'Shea played under Fergie for more than 10+ years, should we hire him next?

He has been here for more than an year and still can't give to his players some kind of a tactical approach or put his point(whatever it is) across and translate his ideas to the players.

Jose and LvG were clearing deadwood in the same way, hardly he has done something fantastic besides stinking up the place and losing us another season which could've been used to give to a proper manager.

 

[11101]

Writing off a season because Mctominay got injured.

Do you not see how silly that sounds? Scotts been good in a few big games. But he’s bang average when it comes to passing the ball forward or when we need to break teams down.

If Ole didn’t waste the summer chasing average like Longstaff because he clearly knew the CM position needed strengthening, so no idea why we just decided it was Longstaff or nobody then things might have been better.

You do understand what I'm saying though.

Every other top team has a squad of interchangeable players. If Liverpool lose a midfielder they have another who comes in and plays the same way. Maybe they're not as good but the style and tactics remain the same.

We lost McTominay and we replaced him with players who require us to completely change our style of play to accommodate them. Instead of playing to our strengths we are playing to the level of the lowest players in the team. It will never work in a league as competitive as the PL.

 

[Skouix]

A number of members on here are prime candidates for cult indoctrination. Will follow the leader no matter how bad he is!

 

[Enigma_87]

We lost McTominay and we replaced him with players who require us to completely change our style of play to accommodate them. Instead of playing to our strengths we are playing to the level of the lowest players in the team. It will never work in a league as competitive as the PL.

Our style was shite since March with or without McTominay. You are reaching desperation levels.

What is our supposed style with McT, out of curiosity, because we have changed styles and formations under Solskjaer and all of them has been shite since he was made permanent.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I dont hold Ole totally accountable.

I wrote our season off when McTominay got injured. We have just about 11 players that are capable of playing the way Ole wants us to play. As soon as we lost one of them, and in such a critical area, I knew it would be tough. It's not simply that the replacements are worse, it is that the replacements suit a totally different style of play. Now we have a team full of players who play in different ways and it's no wonder we look so disjointed. As slowly others have gone it gets worse each time.

That we have such a disjointed squad is not Ole's fault. If he could have replaced McT with somebody with an equal skillset it would have been much easier. It doesn't matter how good the individuals are, at PL level cohesion is the most important thing.

Yeah, how could the person managing the football team be held accountable? That would be pure madness.

 

[momo83]

He easily will. The PL is full of crap managers who eventually get sacked

He won’t. He’s in the unique position of fecking up at teams in both ends of the table, both with sizeable budgets and also he fecked up in the championship.

Managers we usually mock ala Moyes, Big Sam, etc have at least proven that they offer something at a certain level. Ole truly crap.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We’re not asking a dog to give us concrete grades for a foundation. We’re asking a man who spent 10+ years playing under our most successful manager to recreate the ethos and group mentality that made us successful. If you want to be oblique, fine. .
.

It's not a very good plan. The first pre condition should be that the individual should he or have to the potential to be a top class manager. Then all these things like ethos, tradition, mentality, youth etc come in. Otherwise we may as well put Park Hi Sung or any successful United player in charge.

 

[11101]

Our style was shite since March with or without McTominay. You are reaching desperation levels.

What is our supposed style with McT, out of curiosity, because we have changed styles and formations under Solskjaer and all of them has been shite since he was made permanent.

It's quite obvious we want to play with a high press and counter quickly from winning the ball high up the pitch. It didnt always work but dont forget we played some of our best football since SAF under this system. A team with players like Matic and Mata in it will never be able to do it.

Ole should have a plan B ready but it can hardly be his fault that we've had such a scatter gun approach to recruitment and are left with a hugely disjointed squad.

 

[Enigma_87]

He easily will. The PL is full of crap managers who eventually get sacked

He has been found out at two clubs already in PL. He offers nothing. No wonder no club came for him for 5 years after Cardiff.

This will be his Waterloo in terms of getting a top job ever again.

 

[Snow]

Matic and Fred have actually been two of our most consistent players since McTominay got injured. Our CBs have been bad, our goalkeeper has been bad and our attack is bad. If anything our central midfield has been fine when normally it's been our weakest link.

Our squad isn't very good but it's defintely better in defense than it's been showing. We really need to start stringing together clean sheets because this is getting embarrassing. Going 0-1 down feels like a loss already.

We've won 16/36 games this season in all competitions (I count the Rochdale match as a draw). The 4-1 win against Newcastle is the only game which we won after going conceding first. Of the 20 games that we didn't win either the opposition scored first or it finished 0-0 on 15 occassions.

To sum it up, 15/16 wins we scored first. 15/20 non-wins we didn't score first. The games that we scored first and didn't win include the 1-1 against Arsenal and Liverpool and the 1-2 loss against Astana were we played youngsters. So basically we can conclude that something is mentally wrong with our squad on two fronts. We concede way too many goals and they aren't capable of fighting back after going down 0-1. The manager has to take responsibility for that, especially considering his usual post-match comments about not giving up etc.

 

[Enigma_87]

It's quite obvious we want to play with a high press and counter quickly from winning the ball high up the pitch. It didnt always work but dont forget we played some of our best football since SAF under this system. A team with players like Matic and Mata in it will never be able to do it.

Ole should have a plan B ready but it can hardly be his fault that we've had such a scatter gun approach to recruitment and are left with a hugely disjointed squad.

The so called best football that we played was at the very beginning before he even got through the door. He got his purple patch after managerial change and the toxic atmosphere under Jose at the end and that was it.

I have not see the high press in the way you are describing it when McT was fit this season. Our "high press" is uncoordinated, scattered approach without even remotely looking like pressing as a team.

 

[Hawks2008]

It's simple, if he had no history with the club 95% of the supporter base would want him gone.

This guy will be more damaging than Moyes, we weren't a perfect team but he has dismantled a good team that made 81 points in the league and finished 2nd in 18 months. It would take years and millions upon millions of pounds to get back there now and I guarantee that level wont be reached under his 'leadership'.

We're not getting champions league football next season, which means money and a worse position to attract players. If the next 2 windows don't go to plan we could slide further fown the table and the top reds will clap and say that's all we can expect from the manager nothing is his fault..

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's quite obvious we want to play with a high press and counter quickly from winning the ball high up the pitch. It didnt always work but dont forget we played some of our best football since SAF under this system. A team with players like Matic and Mata in it will never be able to do it.

Ole should have a plan B ready but it can hardly be his fault that we've had such a scatter gun approach to recruitment and are left with a hugely disjointed squad.

Many managers want to play like Klopp. Most don't have the managerial ability to pull it off. If I was a manager maybe I'd also want my team to play tiki taka like prime Barcelona. Doesn't mean I can manage Barcelona or Bayern based on mere ideas.

Plan A was never actually good enough because Ole doesn't know how to produce a football team that plays like that. Not at this level. So we'd try to play 'fast football' and that was about it. No nuance or excellence in coaching apparent in our play. No fluidity that you'd expect a top manager to bring in.

So all this talk about 'Ole just lacking a plan B' is silly. He never had a plan A (that was visible and performing at least) that one could truly get behind.

 

[Gehrman]

We’re not asking a dog to give us concrete grades for a foundation. We’re asking a man who spent 10+ years playing under our most successful manager to recreate the ethos and group mentality that made us successful. If you want to be oblique, fine. I never said he doesn’t know what he’s doing, I just acknowledged he’s not the man to complete the task.

Give us your three players and your vague idea as to coaching, we’ll do that instead and Mr Pigeon can answer for it in two years when we’re still 5th and poorer than we are now with new dead wood to clear out.

Give it to Giggsy!

 

[Seij]

Many managers want to play like Klopp. Most don't have the managerial ability to pull it off. If I was a manager maybe I'd also want my team to play tiki taka like prime Barcelona. Doesn't mean I can manage Barcelona or Bayern based on mere ideas.

Plan A was never actually good enough because Ole doesn't know how to produce a football team that plays like that. Not at this level. So we'd try to play 'fast football' and that was about it. No nuance or excellence in coaching apparent in our play. No fluidity that you'd expect a top manager to bring in.

So all this talk about 'Ole just lacking a plan B' is silly. He never had a plan A (that was visible and performing at least) that one could truly get behind.

This exactly. It's easy to talk about how you want to play exciting, attacking football with high press but most managers don't know how to actually make their team play that way.

 

[RyRy11]

Imagine thinking we would turn it around with a new manager in charge This is what we have until Ed and the Glazers go sorry chaps.

 

[Shark]

Imagine thinking we would turn it around with a new manager in charge This is what we have until Ed and the Glazers go sorry chaps.

Imagine thinking we would turn it around with a worse manager than David Moyes

 

[11101]

Many managers want to play like Klopp. Most don't have the managerial ability to pull it off. If I was a manager maybe I'd also want my team to play tiki taka like prime Barcelona. Doesn't mean I can manage Barcelona or Bayern based on mere ideas.

Plan A was never actually good enough because Ole doesn't know how to produce a football team that plays like that. Not at this level. So we'd try to play 'fast football' and that was about it. No nuance or excellence in coaching apparent in our play. No fluidity that you'd expect a top manager to bring in.

So all this talk about 'Ole just lacking a plan B' is silly. He never had a plan A (that was visible and performing at least) that one could truly get behind.

Klopp was shite for the first 3 years. Everybody forgets that. Whether Ole is good enough or not, we are not going to find out with this current squad.

 

[el3mel]

We’re not asking a dog to give us concrete grades for a foundation. We’re asking a man who spent 10+ years playing under our most successful manager to recreate the ethos and group mentality that made us successful. If you want to be oblique, fine. I never said he doesn’t know what he’s doing, I just acknowledged he’s not the man to complete the task.

Give us your three players and your vague idea as to coaching, we’ll do that instead and Mr Pigeon can answer for it in two years when we’re still 5th and poorer than we are now with new dead wood to clear out.

People are still going on with these ethos, mentality and culture nonsense. He has been here for almost a year and we show a total loser mentality whenever we go down. Just check the second half, zero urgency while we were losing 2-0 on our pitch. In fact I have seen much more fight in these group of players under the previous 2 managers whenever we went down in result than what we had seen under Ole. If he's trying to change the mentality and culture then he has failed in it and has failed miserably too.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Klopp was shite for the first 3 years. Everybody forgets that. Whether Ole is good enough or not, we are not going to find out with this current squad.

Except he wasn't. Ask Livepool fans whether he was 'shit'. He was clearly building towards and laying foundations for something Ole can't in his wildest dreams.

We've already found out regarding Ole.

 

[Cassidy]

Klopp was shite for the first 3 years. Everybody forgets that. Whether Ole is good enough or not, we are not going to find out with this current squad.

No he wasnt shite

 

[Gehrman]

Klopp was shite for the first 3 years. Everybody forgets that. Whether Ole is good enough or not, we are not going to find out with this current squad.

No he wasn't

 

[Krieger]

Klopp was shite for the first 3 years. Everybody forgets that. Whether Ole is good enough or not, we are not going to find out with this current squad.

1st year - Took over a Liverpool side in October (so no pre-season) that was playing poorly under Rodgers and in 10th place, ended the season in 8th place and went into two cup finals. Played some damn good football over the season as well.
2nd year - 2nd place about halfway through the season and ended the season fairly comfortable in 4th. The team never dropped out of the top 4 places since gameweek 5. Played some damn good football over the season as well.
3rd year - Had a bumpy start to the season but ultimately guided the team to a comfortable 4th place finish and a Champions League final. Played some damn good football as well.

That's not shite at all. That's pretty good actually. I'd be very happy if we made a similar kind of progress.

 

[Foxbatt]

Klopp was shite for the first 3 years. Everybody forgets that. Whether Ole is good enough or not, we are not going to find out with this current squad.

Klopp had won the Bundesliga a few times and the German Cup and been to the finals of the CL before he came to Liverpool. What has Ole Gunnar done as a manager apart from winning a mickey mouse league in Norway? He may as well won the league in San Marino or South Korea. The opnly club he managed in the PL, he relegated them. He has no clue about coaching a football team. Yes I agree that Woodward is an imbecile and he is as much as to blame but that does not absolve Ole of his ineptitude.

 

[LDUred]

It's disappointing as hell to watch and the reaction of the fans to what they are seeing unfold on the pitch is totally understandable.

That being said, I don't see how having Poch or any of the other names touted around would make much difference to what we are seeing on the pitch. He would be under ridiculous amounts of pressure to turn things around with players like Phil Jones and Jesse Lingard in the mix for selection. We're asking not for a manager here but a Ranieri-style miracle worker.

The plain facts are that we don't have the financial clout to compete anymore and the owners are running the club down.

Let's be honest, losing Rashford is a hammer blow and is cruel on us, but he was only masking what was plain for all to see. The squad and the entire club are in dire need of investment and are basically being left to rot.

 

[11101]

Except he wasn't. Ask Livepool fans whether he was 'shit'. He was clearly building towards and laying foundations for something Ole can't in his wildest dreams.

We've already found out regarding Ole.

You are right. Finishing 8th in his first season was clearly building towards something. If that something was relegation.

Just like Saint Pep was shite in his first year with the most expensive squad ever assembled. It's no longer realistic to expect a manager to come in and perform with somebody else's players. PL football has become too much about tactics and team structure at the top end for that to work. They all need time to bring in the players they want and we are starting from a far lower bar than anybody else.

Do we trust Ole to bring those players in? We shouldn't have to. We should have a Director of Football setting the direction. Until that changes it doesn't matter what we do and any managerial appointment will just be pot luck.

 

[Bebestation]

Getting a better manager now helps us to keep Pogba & Smalling for next year - has the guts to drop de gea for someone like Romero or Henderson - has the guts to start young players if they are good enough like they promised they would when they joined - has the ability to bring players in their prime which we lack.


Furthermore has the ability to not mess up his own tactics as seen today - playing a support striker of vision with a CAM and a winger rather than who he describes the best finisher at the club. Also has the ability to win the europa league.

 

[Foxbatt]

You are right. Finishing 8th in his first season was clearly building towards something. If that something was relegation.

Just like Saint Pep was shite in his first year with the most expensive squad ever assembled. It's no longer realistic to expect a manager to come in and perform with somebody else's players. PL football has become too much about tactics and team structure at the top end for that to work. They all need time to bring in the players they want and we are starting from a far lower bar than anybody else.

Do we trust Ole to bring those players in? We shouldn't have to. We should have a Director of Football setting the direction. Until that changes it doesn't matter what we do and any managerial appointment will just be pot luck.

Tell me something. What has Ole won as a manager apart from a Mickey Mouse League? What has Pep and Klopp won before they came to the PL?

 

[fallengt]

You are right. Finishing 8th in his first season was clearly building towards something. If that something was relegation.

Wasn't his first season. And he managed to get bunch of deadwoods to two finals.

Try again

 

[11101]

Tell me something. What has Ole won as a manager apart from a Mickey Mouse League? What has Pep and Klopp won before they came to the PL?

I'm not saying Ole is good enough. I'm saying we can't tell either way whilst we have such a disjointed squad and recruitment process.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You are right. Finishing 8th in his first season was clearly building towards something. If that something was relegation.

Yes to anyone with a working pair of eyes, he was instilling a strong tactical imprint on his team. He also reached two cup finals in the 1st season. In his first full year in charge, he got them playing spankingly good attacking football and made the CL final. Do you really want to go with this losing argument and what Ole is "achieving" in his first full season?

Just like Saint Pep was shite in his first year with the most expensive squad ever assembled. It's no longer realistic to expect a manager to come in and perform with somebody else's players. PL football has become too much about tactics and team structure at the top end for that to work. They all need time to bring in the players they want and we are starting from a far lower bar than anybody else.

Pep is tactically a very advanced football manager and took a year drill his ideas into that football team. In that first year he also managed to get CL football despite the transitional phase. Everybody knows what happened thereafter with back to back PL titles.

The last bit is complete nonense. Klopp didn't add all that many players to perform well in his second year. I bet he spent less than Ole did last summer. Pep spent but his impediment in coaching and existing players (like Sterling) was enormous. Rodgers this season has improved Leicester with loads of inherited players. You're just making up an argument in the absence of one. Quality manager all around the world do a great job without needing tons of new players. At least not to show genuine progress. But then again, we don't have quality manager.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm not saying Ole is good enough. I'm saying we can't tell either way whilst we have such a disjointed squad and recruitment process.

A man who gets rid of Smalling on Loan when we start of with CBs with injuries, gives Jones new contract isn't good enough.

That by itself started out my doubts over his management over this squad.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm not saying Ole is good enough. I'm saying we can't tell either way whilst we have such a disjointed squad and recruitment process.

You can't tell for some reason. Others can.

 

[peridigm]

I'm sorry but that's nonsense. He is a substantially better manager than Solskjaer.

I agree though, that there isn't a manager out there who, by themselves, sorts this need out. But Poch is the right manager that we need to make the necessary changes under. Putting it differently, I don't think Ole, even under the right ownership, is good enough. Whereas Poch, under the right owners, would be sensational for us.

How do you go from CL final to sacked middle of following season if you’re such a great manager?

In a fairy tale world the Glazers would sell but since they’re not, it doesn’t matter who the manager is. They will be treated the same when it comes to new signings.

 

[11101]

Yes to anyone with a working pair of eyes, he was instilling a strong tactical imprint on his team. He also reached two cup finals in the 1st season. In his first full year in charge, he got them playing spankingly good attacking football and made the CL final. Do you really want to go with this losing argument and what Ole is "achieving" in his first full season?



Pep is tactically a very advanced football manager and took a year drill his ideas into that football team. In that first year he also managed to get CL football despite the transitional phase. Everybody knows what happened thereafter with back to back PL titles.

The last bit is complete nonense. Klopp didn't add all that many players to perform well in his second year. I bet he spent less than Ole did last summer. Pep spent but his impediment in coaching and existing players (like Sterling) was enormous. Rodgers this season has improved Leicester with loads of inherited players. You're just making up an argument in the absence of one. Quality manager all around the world do a great job without needing tons of new players. At least not to show genuine progress. But then again, we don't have quality manager.

I think you need to go back and look at what those managers actually did if you think they didn't need to bring in specific players to kickstart their teams.

Pep needed his attacking fullbacks.
Klopp needed fluid attackers, a top midfielder and a new keeper. Not to mention Van Dijk.
Rodgers bought an almost entirely new midfield in his first window.

Ole's 3 signings of Maguire, AWB and James do not look out of place amongst those. It's the rest of the squad and the sheer amount of deadwood that's the problem.

A man who gets rid of Smalling on Loan when we start of with CBs with injuries, gives Jones new contract isn't good enough.

That by itself started out my doubts over his management over this squad.

Nothing wrong with getting rid of Smalling in isolation. Clearly not and never has been good enough. Ole's job is to identify areas he wants to improve, which he clearly did because we bought a CB, but it should be somebody else who goes out and actually buys the players.

 

[GifLord]

Klopp was shite for the first 3 years. Everybody forgets that. Whether Ole is good enough or not, we are not going to find out with this current squad.

2 years i guess. He had some absolute horror show results because of his dogshite defenders.
In his 1st season 2015-16 Replaced Rodgers in mid October 2015
Crystal Palace beat them at home 1:2, lost to Newcastle (2:0), were close to losing against WBA (2:2 last min origi goal), Watford beat them 3:0, lost to WHU 2:0, lost to Southampton 3:2 despite leading 0:2 at half time, lost to Swansea 3:1. They finished 8th and played in the Europa League Final where they lost to Sevilla. They had decent results against top 6 - beat city both times
in his 2nd season 2016-17
Lost to Burnley 2:0 , lost to Bournemouth 4:3 despite leading 0:2 at half time, lost to Swansea at home 3:2, lost to Hull 2:0, lost again to Crystal Palace at home 1:2. Liverpool finished 4th - 1 point ahead of Arsenal.
in his 3rd season 2017-18
First game of the season drew to Watford 3:3, lost to City 5:0, lost to Spurs 4:1, lost to Swansea 1:0. Crystal Palace were not their bogey team anymore. They finished 4th again in the PL and played in the UCL final. van Dijk signed in Jan 2018

 

[Bebestation]

I think you need to go back and look at what those managers actually did if you think they didn't need to bring in specific players to kickstart their teams.

Pep needed his attacking fullbacks.
Klopp needed fluid attackers, a top midfielder and a new keeper. Not to mention Van Dijk.
Rodgers bought an almost entirely new midfield in his first window.

Ole's 3 signings of Maguire, AWB and James do not look out of place amongst those. It's the rest of the squad and the sheer amount of deadwood that's the problem.



Nothing wrong with getting rid of Smalling in isolation. Clearly not and never has been good enough. Ole's job is to identify areas he wants to improve, which he clearly did because we bought a CB, but it should be somebody else who goes out and actually buys the players.

Utter rubbish. Smalling has always been better than Lindelof and not a single manager would say any different. People act surprised like he's having a good season for Roma. SAF wouldn't sell Smalling to keep Lindelof & Bailly or Tuenzebe or TFM.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think you need to go back and look at what those managers actually did if you think they didn't need to bring in specific players to kickstart their teams.

Pep needed his attacking fullbacks.
Klopp needed fluid attackers, a top midfielder and a new keeper. Not to mention Van Dijk.
Rodgers bought an almost entirely new midfield in his first window.

Ole's 3 signings of Maguire, AWB and James do not look out of place amongst those. It's the rest of the squad and the sheer amount of deadwood that's the problem.
.

Not really. I'll repeat, Klopp got Liverpool playing fanatastic attacking football and reaching a CL final in his first full season without that many additions. Rodgers has had a terrific season and improved Leicester hugely in his first full season without adding many players. Ole has spent 150 million and achieved our worst points tally in aeons. You're the one unable to look at the present clearly let alone the past.

As for Pep, he spent big but the level of his coaching regardless was incredible to get them to stroll to the title (with the points tally they got) in season 2. Again, adding a few players is different from needing a new team. And I believe he over spent anyway. Take out a few of those extra and pointless signings and they still win the league in 16/17 comfortably. Again, there's no point comparing Pep and Ole. One is one of the greats of his era. The other is Ole.