And he takes no questions. Coward.
The Biden Presidency
- Thread starter Raoul
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Biden was right to pull out . The anger seems to be coming from the Neocons from the media, Republicans, some Democrats and Defense contractors. They would love to stay there for another 20 years.
I am none of those things but I am angry at the manner of the pullout. Doing nothing to expedite the removal of Afghans who assisted the US, and who are in danger, in advance of the pullout is disgraceful. I think we never should have been there, and we absolutely should not have been there for longer than the year or so it took to complete the “mission”. However, that does not give Biden a pass on fecking up the pullout when it came.
My take on it is that its likely been obvious to them for a very long time that the country becomes the Taliban's as soon as they start pulling out. No point anymore propping up a useless, failed, corrupt government and not an option to stay there perpetually.
The speed of the Taliban is what has caught them off guard, of course they were going to start moving as soon as US troops started pulling out, and they did, but I suppose they expected them to actually have to fight a battle or two, not just walk in everywhere unopposed.
I'm sure they could have mercilessly killed a few thousand more of them as they moved... I'm not sure that's the right thing to do however when you know the conflict will soon be at an end. Put more pressure on the Afghan Army to throw more young men into a meat grinder knowing full well its for nothing? Difficult decisions have been made, that's for sure.
The speed of the Taliban is what has caught them off guard, of course they were going to start moving as soon as US troops started pulling out, and they did, but I suppose they expected them to actually have to fight a battle or two, not just walk in everywhere unopposed.
I'm sure they could have mercilessly killed a few thousand more of them as they moved... I'm not sure that's the right thing to do however when you know the conflict will soon be at an end. Put more pressure on the Afghan Army to throw more young men into a meat grinder knowing full well its for nothing? Difficult decisions have been made, that's for sure.
By "here" do you mean redcafe? Or more generally? Because I've not seen a single person who dislikes Biden from the left criticize this move, some have criticized the lack of planning, but not the decision itself.
Well, the wheels of this exit had been set in motion by Trump, probably because most people Left, Right, and Center didn't see the point in wasting trillions dollars going forward with no feasible end game. Staying any longer just didn't make any sense
Had Obama pulled all troops out after May 2, 2011 when Bin Laden had been killed, I believe most people would have thought that would have made sense. But... The military contractors had too much influence.
Here's another factor that is incredibly disturbing. Former Civilian Advisor to General McChrystal outlines the complete mess in and around the time the death of Bin Laden.
Read and decide for yourself
https://www.csis.org/analysis/afghanistan-conflict-metrics-2000-2018
That aligns nicely with this piece: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/08/the-afghanistan-debacle-this-land-sneak-peek/
Thank you for sharing this with me. I had met David Corn while working in DC a couple times. Dude gave me the creeps. I haven't read anything from him for about a decade.
Corn's essay here is a bullseye on every point, with one exception
This quote from the Washington Post has been buzzing in my head as it is exactly the same situation of revealed by Elsberg in the Pentagon Papers. The lies and deception from some military commanders (not all), mainstream media, and politicians who were fully privy should be prosecuted somehow, but this very unlikely
(For those that don't care to read full articles)
"As the Post put it, “senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable.” "
I have a keen eye for bullshit: This is exactly why I don't like or trust David Corn.
It's but a flaw, yet a crafty way to give Biden wiggle room to move past this unflawed
Another quote from Corn's essay:
" Who lost Afghanistan? Well, it wasn’t ours to lose in the first place. But everyone is to blame, for everyone lied or got it wrong: Bush and Cheney, Obama and Biden, Trump and Pence, and now Biden and Harris. "
There's no single person in Washington DC who held the highest positions of power that reached the most detailed information on Afghanistan than Joe Biden. He was minority/majority leader of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from 1979 up until he became VP. He should have been more vocal before leaving the White House in Jan 2017. Yes, David Corn includes Biden in his list, but Biden's responsibility may not be as criminal as, say Bush/Cheney with Iraq, it's still stomach churning to know he held those lies for so long, and he has another 3 years in the White House
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Thanks for the keen insight, Bob! Hope all is well.
My pleasureThanks for the keen insight, Bob! Hope all is well.
Thanks, having nearly checked out a couple times this past year due to an unexplained blood clotting issue attacking my organs, I'm doing fair nowadays.
Hope all is well with you, as well
Cheers! A little hypertension but I should be ok.My pleasure
Thanks, having nearly checked out a couple times this past year due to an unexplained blood clotting issue attacking my organs, I'm doing fair nowadays.
Hope all is well with you, as well
Incompetent senior advisors most likely.
The manner is everything, the US looked like they’ve been chased out and not in control. It’s one thing to lose a war, it’s another thing to look like you’ve been beaten.
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It's disgusting to see so many Democrats support more war, no doubt because their guy is President now.
Its sheep mentality with double standards to the core, funniest part is, one side thinks other side is deluded and brainwashed, same shit coin thats all.
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every piece of sycophantic coverage to this point evaporates the moment he did something mildly against the MIC, it's amazing to watch.
It has been amazing to watch. Fox and the Trumpers have gone so far off the rails they are now.. pro Taliban (wtf???) while CNN has taken up the Fox niche. I am not saying they should be spouting the usual pro-Biden talking points, but at least approach things with some integrity.
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The whole Afghanistan thing is a total mess and joke of the century.
Full credit to him to pull out. They had no business being there.
Update this is now best thing the Biden administration has done so far
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Gotta love that 'Special Relationship' 
there is currently a man sitting in a truck outside the Library of Congress claiming it is a massive car bomb and that he has 4 others. Not one peep on any of the news networks, it’s all just Afghanistan. Guarantee you 1000% if that guy was a shade darker it would be leading, but there can be no gap in this narrative coverage. Wonder if they’ll break away if he blows up the LoC?
So he went from being the next messiah to just another incompetent politician? American news coverage always seem to go to the extremes rather quickly. Is that what the public wants? Outrage all the time?
Yep, but more directly they want to direct the outrage to make the most money.
https://apnorc.org/projects/most-am...afghanistan-and-iraq-were-not-worth-fighting/
some fresh polling on the war rather than the pullout
some fresh polling on the war rather than the pullout
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(moving this here since there's been discussion about this here, and it's more relvant to biden than afg)
TV coverage has been almost uniformly hostile from CNN and MSNBC and other outlets, let alone Fox:
So, yes. The media is incredibly partisan. In favour of the permanent national security establishment, which Biden ignored when making this decision.
e - i've probably talked about sycophantic coverage Biden got earlier. Not being Trump and not rocking the boat too hard in any direction so they loved him. One bit of independence and they pounced. (note that till last week withdrawal had majority support from both parties' voters)
These are from the NYT, white house correspondent CNN national security reporter, and Atlantic editor in chief:
TV coverage has been almost uniformly hostile from CNN and MSNBC and other outlets, let alone Fox:
So, yes. The media is incredibly partisan. In favour of the permanent national security establishment, which Biden ignored when making this decision.
e - i've probably talked about sycophantic coverage Biden got earlier. Not being Trump and not rocking the boat too hard in any direction so they loved him. One bit of independence and they pounced. (note that till last week withdrawal had majority support from both parties' voters)
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Well, the thinking is that sensational news gets a lot more votes than a report on 'mild-mannered Biden doing mild-mannered, centrist things', and I guess they're right.
The sad thing is that a lot of sensation could be gotten out of properly reporting on the embarrassments of US poverty, inequality, and criminal justice - but apparently news orgs prefer to manufacture political turmoil. (As do politicians, for that matter. It's a great collaborative effort. And obviously that's not unique to the US - especially now we're in election period here in Canada!)
it should be noted that this is even without an American live lost after the surrender. The moment a soldier or civilian dies or gets hurt, Ll he'll will break loose in the media.
So where’s Vice President Harris, conspicuous by her absence?
When the shit hits the fan, she goes missing….
When the shit hits the fan, she goes missing….
So most of you want him to withdraw American troops from an invasion of a foreign country? Or do you want him to keep occupying a foreign country?
I read some news that she’s on an official visit to some countries in Southeast Asia.
Very clever tactics.
Yes, I read she’s only just landed in Singapore. So what’s she been doing during the Afghan crisis? …..seemingly nothing at all.
Waiting for Biden to self combust? .…the vultures are circling.
When is foreign intervention acceptable in your opinion? Not Afghanistan specifically but in general.
Where there is precious, wonderful oil in the place that has the (insert made up crisis).