Women would have been ultra fecked though if memory serves?Reading a book- Napoleon the Great. I wonder if the French had managed to master sea warfare if history would have turned out very different? Also under the Napoleonic code Oscar WIlde and Alan Turing would have had much happier lives
The British Empire
- Thread starter sammsky1
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Sinead did a far better job with Black Boys On Mopeds. Granted it's been a long since I've gone back home but it's always been pretty clear that racism and xenophobia exists in Ireland. Agree with you that while at times it can be well meaning it also shows a real lack of awareness.
Yeah, good point.
Is that in response to my post? Cause just to clarify that I wasn't refering to working class people, but to people like Johnson and Tombs.
Really like this article on the ethical and analytical problems of the “pros and cons” or “balance sheet” approach to the study of empire:
Thanks for posting that - a really insightful read.
My grandfather had to move, he lost a brother in the movement of people.
I was born here in the 80's and there was still loads of problems between Sikhs/Hindus and Muslims throughout the 90's, gang fights, rapes, individuals attacked, throughout Britain. I remember being dragged to Leicester by my cousin for a fight, I was given a knuckle duster and a bike chain. Luckily the cops found out so it didn't happen.
All that hate was an echo of what our grandparents went through, neighbours killing neighbours. We were bought up to hate each other. I'm glad that the younger generations don't have the same hate.
Amen to that. The next generation does seem to be the best of all of us for sure.
It’s funny, I mentioned something similar about a certain striker we’re not signing and got slated on here for it. Because people are brought up to hate doesn’t make them bad people, it’s more the times and society they’re brought up in. Just pleased to read that younger generations are moving away from those thoughts, gives you hope about humanity.
Perhaps inevitably, Jedward have emerged as the voice of resistance to imperial nostalgia and denialism.
This thread was great for identifying idiots.
brits*
theres two facts about the British empire.
1. Moderate estimates are that at least 100 Million perished due to it but likely a lot more. Millions more displaced and trillions in wealth stolen.
2. A combination of an amazing PR job and Hitler showing up and starting WW2 meant that the many wrongs of the empire were pushed into the background. That coupled with the fact British kids arent taught about colonialism in schools means its a huge surprise when they find out that all of these countries didn't just hand over their lands like good sports.
1. Moderate estimates are that at least 100 Million perished due to it but likely a lot more. Millions more displaced and trillions in wealth stolen.
2. A combination of an amazing PR job and Hitler showing up and starting WW2 meant that the many wrongs of the empire were pushed into the background. That coupled with the fact British kids arent taught about colonialism in schools means its a huge surprise when they find out that all of these countries didn't just hand over their lands like good sports.
British kids are not taught about colonialism?
Nope.
What's the breakdown of this though? Isn't a large number of those due to faminines and civil wars?
It'll vary from school to school to a certain extent, but during my time in school it was hardly covered. I went to a Welsh language school so the curriculum was a little different to other areas, but I've spoken to plenty of people from other parts of the UK who also didn't get taught about colonialism in any depth. As far I know it's still not a required compulsory field to cover in British schools.
We did cover the transatlantic slave trade for about a lesson or two, but there was no honest engagement with it about the role of Britain.
Amongst just other things like ethnic cleansing
Really recommend this podcast Empire by William Dalrymple and Anita Anand, first series has 16 episodes on British rule in India. More to come in future series I believe:
I'm absolutely amazed at this. There's never been any movements to cover this?
Well would you want to admit that your country killed millions and millions of people and got away with it?
I know people who have written material for schoolkids on this who faced a massive hurdle in getting it approved by exam boards, because of successive governments' views on acceptable and unacceptable topics.
The slave trade is generally taught from the perspective of the abolitionists, with little to no discussion of the agency and actions of the enslaved.
Exactly, "learn how we ended the awful slave trade but let's not talk about how we profited from it immensely first"
Forget about the slave trade. What about invading a country and taking over and treating the indigenous people like slaves and still do.
Look at what is happening in Canada even today. Discrimination on all levels.
Look at what is happening in Canada even today. Discrimination on all levels.
Was reading a Hitler speech transcript and found it fascinating that Hitler refers to the Boers:
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/hitler speeches/Hitler Speech 1940.01.30.htm
Reading a book- Napoleon the Great. I wonder if the French had managed to master sea warfare if history would have turned out very different? Also under the Napoleonic code Oscar WIlde and Alan Turing would have had much happier lives
Are there any Algerians or Vietnamese you can ask?
Empire was oppression, built and run on violence. There is no benign oppressor.
It is interesting to see how we deal with nations' attempts to make the world in their own image.
Generals are always romanticized. Even Rommel. I'm guessing because it's hard to honestly discuss war in a way that demonstrates what war and empire is actually about without being able to resort to tactical fetish. Sometimes it's just necessary, as in history, others it's written within an established paradigm wherein war is this thing you are supposed to respect and generals, big named, are the ones you should respect most.
history: nations' attemtps to make the world in their own image. (failed) attempts.
banging on about that part above a lot, but it's true, isn't it? take that part out and you cannot even understand religion. it is, simultaneously, what Putin is doing in Ukraine and what he says NATO is attempting to do in his justification of it.
Generals are always romanticized. Even Rommel. I'm guessing because it's hard to honestly discuss war in a way that demonstrates what war and empire is actually about without being able to resort to tactical fetish. Sometimes it's just necessary, as in history, others it's written within an established paradigm wherein war is this thing you are supposed to respect and generals, big named, are the ones you should respect most.
history: nations' attemtps to make the world in their own image. (failed) attempts.
banging on about that part above a lot, but it's true, isn't it? take that part out and you cannot even understand religion. it is, simultaneously, what Putin is doing in Ukraine and what he says NATO is attempting to do in his justification of it.
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Just a regular, lazy Sunday afternoon reading Hitler speeches.
Killed millions, stole trillions. Got away with it by being all Hugh Grant charmy and smarmy like. cnuts!
Don't forget the most insidious claim - that the British Empire, compared to its European counterparts, was exemplary.
It always surprises me how, despite all this, British culture is seemingly still so revered in India - cricket being on example, music and films, and Premier League football being so popular there. Is the history also repressed there?
Cricket is certainly an obsession in India. Football much less so (although its popularity is growing). But British music and films? I really don't think many Indians are interested, relatively speaking.
I do agree that Indians generally exhibit less bitter sentiments regarding the colonial past than some others in my experience. Here's one explanation given by Nehru himself (around 1:50):
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