He's big so it's okay to manhandle him
The curious case of Jon Moss
- Thread starter Bastian
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
There's no point in talking about it anymore. Its a bias and it's that simple
Any pics/images?
(of the Dier incident, not Fat Moss)
(of the Dier incident, not Fat Moss)
Was he the ref that told pogba off for doing skills?
We're playing against 12 men. Its unbelievable that he still gets United games
Hang on, no one actually thinks we should have had a pen do they?
I'm not aware of an example of one of those being given this season. They were about a yard away from eachother.
Why would anyone think that?
I certainly haven't seen all of them.
"An arm extended away from the body makes that body bigger, in an unnatural position," explains Mike Riley
"If the ball strikes that arm, particularly if it is blocking a shot on goal, there is a greater likelihood we will penalise that."
I really don't see much of a difference between the situation with Dier and Telles, both have their arms stretched (Dier more than Telles), both are from close distance and a result of ball hitting hand rather than hand going towards ball, both are a case of arm position being a result of body movement. Dier is trying to bring his arms to his body and blocks a shot towards goal and Telles is rotating his body and his hand away from the ball but blocks a cross. One is considered accidental, where the ref has a clear view of the situation, while the other one with Telles is given even with Moss having a blocked view and a linesman signaling feck all.
It's another case of VAR not getting involved no matter the outcome, it's not clear cut as it depends on interpretation, it's just daft that you have two very similar situations and two very different outcomes in the same match.
Exactly my feelings on it. The two situations are so similar, in the same game that to have one given as a penalty and one not….just can’t be right.
The difference in distance between player and ball is the big difference.
I didn't think the Dier one was a pen. I did think the Telles one was. And that's pretty consistent with what we've seen all season with similar instances.
It’s a penalty at the end of the day…..high percentage scoring chance, from a low percentage situation. Neither player intended to handball it. Neither moved their hand to the ball. Diers hand was in a very unnatural position for me. Telles was turning away from the ball on the move. Where do you cut off ? It’s not just these two situations we’re getting the thin end every game almost. Since January it’s been ridiculous.
To me when I see both from yesterday I could make a case one way or another, but when I look in the context of them being in the same game….it’s a nonsense that one is a penalty and one isn’t.
I'm not aware of a penalty being given this season where the circumstances are the same as Dier. You just don't see them given at such close range.
But whatever anyway. We won. It didn't matter.
It wasn’t a penalty for the Dier handball, he was super close to Ronaldo when he miss hit the ball and his hands were as far out of the way as he could have possibly got them from where the shot should have gone
Distance aside, Telles hands were at a far more unnatural angle than Dier.
far more? How?
Stand up, relax, tell me which way your arms are pointing.
I don’t agree. If anything there have been inconsistent decisions throughout the season. Somehow more time, lot more, we end up on wrong side of calls.
With all respect to distance, when a ball is going towards goal and player blocks it with outstreched arm it can’t be anything but penalty. He is stopping a good goalscoring chance even if it wasn’t clean hit by Ronaldo.
How long distance do you think it is ok? 34 cm? 3m? 7,45m? Where is that magic number?
Telles brought his arms up. Dier’s arms were facing downwards. One is far more natural than the other.
That depends on what you’re doing, if your just standing up then yes. If you’re running or jumping then no.
I’m sorry but I have never seen a person walking or running with outstreched arms behind their backs and thought, oh that is as natural as it gets.
Look at the video
You cannot possibly say his left hand is in a natural position for running.He wasn’t running or walking. He was blocking a shot. His arms don’t move, they are literally pointing straight down in the whole action, his body moves to block the shot giving the impression that his arms are sticking out.
If a movement is natural or not depends on what you’re doing. Telles is rotating his body, Dier isn’t, so their arm movement isn’t going to be identical. Diers arm, as seen from every picture, is stretched out from his body but he’s trying to bring them to the side of his body
The way I saw it was he was trying to get his arms out of the way of where Ronaldo was intending to shoot so put them behind his back, but then Ronaldo sliced it and found exactly where Dier's arms were. I assume the ref thought the same. I don't think it's fair to analyse a still or slow mo from a fast paced game to judge intent. In reality it all happened very quickly and I think the ref ought to give Dier the benefit of any doubt.
For me the Dier one was 90-10 not a pen whereas the Telles one was 50-50.
Look at that. Perfect example of a football movement.
By making himself dubble size. You are trying to explain movements of body so that can excuse Dier. Have you seen pictures people posting here? And you still don’t think it is nothing wrong?
Why would I look at photos. I’ve looked at the video. Have you?
Rather strange interpretation.
Dier tries to block with his foot, leans back and stretches out both arms far from his body. Gets hit by Ronaldos shot. Doesn't matter if it's a sliced shot, perfectly placed or whatnot, the end result here is that Diers arms are stretched out from his body and blocks a shot heading towards goal. Obviously proximity and movement of arms comes into play, and I do agree it's not really a penalty, but It has feck all to do with Ronaldos intentions.
But then again I don't agree that Telles is a penalty either. Proximity is close, Telles is rotating his body with his arm in a natural position and he's moving it away from the ball..Funnily enough, the situation with Telles is fairly fecking close to the second example they bring up in the videoclip in the link explaining the handball rules, as to something that isn't a penalty https://www.premierleague.com/news/2204759
You're right, it has everything to do with Dier's intentions. Which were to get out of the way of where he (and everyone else in the ground) thought Ronaldo was going to put it.Rather strange interpretation.
Dier tries to block with his foot, leans back and stretches out both arms far from his body. Gets hit by Ronaldos shot. Doesn't matter if it's a sliced shot, perfectly placed or whatnot, the end result here is that Diers arms are stretched out from his body and blocks a shot heading towards goal. Obviously proximity and movement of arms comes into play, and I do agree it's not really a penalty, but It has feck all to do with Ronaldos intentions.
But then again I don't agree that Telles is a penalty either. Proximity is close, Telles is rotating his body with his arm in a natural position and he's moving it away from the ball..Funnily enough, the situation with Telles is fairly fecking close to the second example they bring up in the videoclip in the link explaining the handball rules, as to something that isn't a penalty https://www.premierleague.com/news/2204759
If the ball is too close for Dier to react then it’s too close for him to read Ronaldos intentions.
Why wouldn’t Ronaldo aim to the right where the space is?
Almost RAWK levels of insanity in here. The Telles one was as clear a handball as you’re likely to see.
Ffs why didn’t VAR ask the fat shit to have a look againRather strange interpretation.
Dier tries to block with his foot, leans back and stretches out both arms far from his body. Gets hit by Ronaldos shot. Doesn't matter if it's a sliced shot, perfectly placed or whatnot, the end result here is that Diers arms are stretched out from his body and blocks a shot heading towards goal. Obviously proximity and movement of arms comes into play, and I do agree it's not really a penalty, but It has feck all to do with Ronaldos intentions.
But then again I don't agree that Telles is a penalty either. Proximity is close, Telles is rotating his body with his arm in a natural position and he's moving it away from the ball..Funnily enough, the situation with Telles is fairly fecking close to the second example they bring up in the videoclip in the link explaining the handball rules, as to something that isn't a penalty https://www.premierleague.com/news/2204759
Nowadays they’re giving everything against us. Leave aside the penalty, the second goal by spurs should not be counted since their player was intercepting maguire and also an offside. I believe this will be disallowed for all other teams.
City would have got that no question.
Why would anyone think that?
It is pretty clear on that ref video that the Telles one should not been given. Dier had his hands in a much more unnatural position than Telles. But with Moss on the whistle you never know what you get.
For an intentional handball then it's only God's intentions that matter, fair enough. Right decision then anyway tbf.Diers intention doesn't matter either
Also, see the clip in the link.