Tell that to Spain. They'll be glad to hear the virus has gone.
The mask debate
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
Because there was a shortage of masks and the inept government couldn't even get enough masks for NHS staff back then.
Even if it helps by 1%, why wouldn't you do it? Or are you saying it makes absolutely zero difference?
Again?
The point is that your post stated that Sweden was 'pissing' (your choice of words) all over most other countries while the media, and the PM think otherwise.
Okay, so the PM doesn't decide what to do, his Health Ministry does. Does the Health Minister have a place in the PM's cabinet?
What a dogshit article.
It’s clear to see that even with 350 million vs. 10.5 million, the US will in the next month surpass Sweden in deaths per capita, just as the likes of UK, Spain Italy, Belgium have already.
As for the Economy part of the article, I’ll call bullshit on that too:
feck me, the PM doesn’t think otherwise, unless you have a quote? In multiple interviews he still backs it up.
and “most other countries” is not what I said at all.
Yes yes, all dogshit.What a dogshit article.
It’s clear to see that even with 350 million vs. 10.5 million, the US will in the next month surpass Sweden in deaths per capita, just as the likes of UK, Spain Italy, Belgium have already.
As for the Economy part of the article, I’ll call bullshit on that too:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/17/how-sweden-fought-coronavirus-and-what-went-wrong.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sweden-coronavirus-death-toll-projections/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-was-the-impact-of-swedens-soft-approach-to-lockdown
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sweden...den-example-of-how-not-to-deal-with-covid-19/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133
All complete bollocks.
What have Sweden done that's so different to everyone else? I picked up from that article that they've left shops and schools open etc, so what is if that they've done to try and deal with this rather than kick the can down the road?
Of course dear boy. Everyone else is wrong. Obvious of course.
Does the Health Minister have a place on the cabinet?
Just look at the actual stats man
And look what is now happening in Spain, France, Belgium (again), Portugal, Australia.
All media outlets were quick to draw conclusions, just as you yourself are. The situation now and stats tells a hugely different story.
The health ministry is not a part of the government.
yawn.Just look at the actual stats man
And look what is now happening in Spain, France, Belgium (again), Portugal, Australia.
All media outlets were quick to draw conclusions, just as you yourself are. The situation now and stats tells a hugely different story.
Does the PM order an inquiry?
Does the Health Minister have a seat in the cabinet?
The idea has been to learn to live with the virus that may potentially be around for years, rather than shutting down society only to end up in the same situation a few months later.
Shops remained open always, same for hairdressers etc. School and kids sports always continued and Sweden NEVER closed any borders.
Sweden have been about living as “normal” as possible whilst getting the curve right down and deaths right down. They have absolutely achieved that and the spikes happening in post lockdown countries look extremely unlikely in Sweden at this point due to that.
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Yeah they are paranoid ones. Those walking around wearing masks all day aren't paranoid at all.
Yes, but it’s not an enquiry into the “Failure”, it’s an inquiry into Sweden’s response and readiness. Something the WHO have urged ALL countries to do in order to see what they can learn and what they can do better in future.
once again, the health ministry is not part of the government and the head of the ministry does not sit on the cabinet.
What? Lena Hallengren does not sit on the cabinet? Bollocks man.
Of course it's not an enquiry into one of the worst rates in Europe, worse than the US. Not an enquiry into Sweden's economy. Everyone else is wrong again.
Lena has no say over the health ministry mate.
Do you think its paranoid of us to use sterile techniques when doing procedures on patients in hospitals by the way? Say...surgery for instance? Or a lumbar puncture?
Of course, everyone else is wrong.
ps.
Lena Hallengren is a Swedish Social Democratic politician who since 21 January 2019 serves as Minister for Health and Social Affairs in the second Löfven Cabinet. Wikipedia
Making the mistake of thinking this is over are we?
feck me, when will some of you lot learn?
Look what is Happening around the World post lockdown man, and look at Sweden now.
Can you see how these are two very contradictory statements to make?Making the mistake of thinking this is over are we?
feck me, when will some of you lot learn?
Look what is Happening around the World post lockdown man, and look at Sweden now.
are you playing stupid?
the Health Ministry has power not the government in a pandemic, they call the shots. Lena has no say in this, she sits on the cabinet. Is it such a struggle for you to understand how a different system works?
Hälsomyndigheten is completely separate from the government.
No, because nothing in Sweden’s strategy/society has changed since the peak in April. That’s the point!
But you said, that Sweden is pissing over plenty of other countries. Did you mean to say that by the end Sweden is pissing over plenty of other countries or did you, like myself and the media articles mean, at this point in time?Making the mistake of thinking this is over are we?
feck me, when will some of you lot learn?
Look what is Happening around the World post lockdown man, and look at Sweden now.
Of course my dear chap, everyone else is wrong, again....
But there’s more medical reason and common sense dictating to wear a mask than the other way around
Oh you mean the civil servants will take the fall and not the Minister for Health and Social Affairs.
Matt Hancock is going to love this defence.
No I don't think that's paranoid.
UK, Belgium, Spain, Italy. All pissed on in Europe.
And on the current situation, they’ll be a damn site more in the next few weeks alone. Look it up, you don’t need me or the media to spell it out to you, the stats are there for all to see.
Ok I'll bite.
Covid-19 is a real thing, it has killed hundreds of thousands of people all over the world, tens of thousands in the UK alone. People wear masks to lower the rate of infection.
vs
Not wearing a mask, because putting a piece of cloth in front of your face will lead to the end of democracy or something.
Yeah, I know.. you're just a guy applying "common sense".
Why would she take the fall, she has no say.Oh you mean the civil servants will take the fall and not the Minister for Health and Social Affairs.
Matt Hancock is going to love this defence.
Matt Hancock has a say, because the set up in the UK is vastly different.
why is this so hard for you to get your head around? Sweden’s system is to try and ensure that politics don’t play a role in the health of the nation.
Worst amongst your neighbours. Found four that you feel are plenty though. Give us a break Mr Perfect.
She's not the Head of the Ministry, do give over. Great job. Here Lena, I'm making you Minister but it's a piece of piss, you're not in charge.
Matt Hancock take note, not that any of us think he's in charge of much either.
ps
The ministry is headed by the "Minister for Health and Social Affairs", Lena Hallengren (S). The other minister who serve at the Ministry is the Minister for Social Security Annika Strandhäll (S).
I didn't say it had changed.
Look, I think lockdown was the right strategy for many of the countries that have chosen it but I have been steadfast from the beginning in saying while, in the short-term, Australia, NZ etc look like they've done an amazing job, there is not much point in congratulating some countries and attacking others (ie Sweden) until we get to the end of this thing. And the long term impacts may not be seen for years, if not decades.
I also think there is no one strategy beats all and all countries must make their own decisions regarding what is right for them. There is no way any country in Europe could realistically do what NZ has done for instance. Its just impossible, each country is far more interconnected with dozens of other countries than NZ is with any country.
Within this particular idea, while I think Sweden has made many mistakes, I did not see much point in getting hysterical about things and criticising them because we are nowhere near the end yet.
However, you are doing the exact same thing but in reverse. Jingoistically proclaiming how Sweden are 'pissing on UK/Belgium/Spain/Italy'. Even if you were, there is nothing at all to pat yourself on the back about for pissing on the 4 worst affected countries in the continent so far. Saying how good a job Sweden has done...when we have no idea how Sweden's curves will go (or indeed other countries') in the future. Posting economic charts (predicted) when we do not know how this will affect the economies of countries into the future.
As an example to the above. Japan never really locked down. They didn't close borders as such, though international tourism did of course fall off a cliff. They all wear masks and generally as a population social distance (when not stuff on top of each other on Tokyo trains). Restaurants and night-life areas have stayed mostly open. And yet they have had a sudden increase in their number of cases.
So what's the difference in your eyes?
Also, quick edit...I don't understand why it bothers people so much. I can see finding it uncomfortable, it being weird, disliking the idea of being told what to do.
But the anger and hatred it elicits in some, I don't get it? I have to wear it all the time now in the hospital. I used to wear masks anyway when doing many procedures. I wear it when out and about if I'm going to be in close contact with people. So far, I haven't dropped dead, developed some kind of horrible breathing problem or lost my freedom. It does bloody hurt the back of my ears though after 12 hours in the hospital.
I wear it (outside of work) on the chance it may stop transmission to others, especially those who are at highest risk of dying or getting serious problems from this virus. It has very little, if no impact, on my actual life.
Why is this such a bad thing? To on occasion do something with others in mind?
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I don’t know how true this is but I read a report saying that if 80% of the USA wore masks in places where you can’t socially distance they’d reduce the transmission rate by over 90%
Seems like a no brainer to me
Seems like a no brainer to me
The head of the ministry is General Director Johan Carlsson mate. Do keep up.
He has nothing to do with the government, in Sweden the health of the nation should not be politicized.
I’m British, so I know full well that it’s a completely different system in the UK that Matt in directly responsible for.
Yes of course, the UK has a senior civil servant at the Ministry of Health too and the Ministers are just spokespeople.
Again....
The ministry is headed by the "Minister for Health and Social Affairs", Lena Hallengren (S).
Head of the Ministry in Sweden's case doesn't mean, Head of the Ministry...
Still not getting it, she is not allowed to influence it. The ministry has independent control of the public health and control in a pandemic. They call the shots.Yes of course, the UK has a senior civil servant at the Ministry of Health too and the Ministers are just spokespeople.
Again....
The ministry is headed by the "Minister for Health and Social Affairs", Lena Hallengren (S).
Head of the Ministry in Sweden's case doesn't mean, Head of the Ministry...