The Missing Martial thread

[WensleyMU]

Does anyone have any real news about Martial or is it all speculation? I see he hasn't travelled to Germany but he's not the only player who hasn't.

I'm in the camp which wants Martial to stay but also supports Mourinho. I won't pretend to claim I know what's going on as honestly, I don't know. What I do know is that the media are full of nonsense so I take any reports with wholesale order of salt.

In regards to Martial, if we lose him, we lose an element to our football that in my voew, we can't afford to lose. Unpredictability (when he's in form anyway). We are far to laboured in attack at times due to static players and a lack of cohesion. Martial is the exception here rather than the rule so for me, the club needs to keep him. He's also better than Willian in my opinion. This may be because I've seen more of Martial, but it's my opinion nonetheless.

Is it a case of Jose or Martial though? Not at all. I don't understand the squabbling above and in the other Martial thread over a situation nobody even knows actually exists.

 

[ash_86]

That's including his performances for Arsenal last season. Yes, he can do it but it was far too sporadic. Even in those games he didn't actually perform very well apart from in instances. If Sanchez can't even outperform him in the now, what are we actually gaining from this entire thing.

Well, he's moved in midseason into the team with a different attacking philosophy. Ofcouse he's not going to be flying right from the word go. What is important is the commitment he shows. There wouldn't be a single match where he looks given up. Be it first minute or 90th minute, he's down chasing the balls up and down the pitch like a terrier. We all know the talent he's got and what he's capable of. It's only a matter of time before you could see Sanchez at his best and it's quite evident from the pre season games. I have nothing against Martial , he's a good boy with bags of talent. Martial should see this as a learning experience and keep proving as he gets minutes. There is no shame in coming off the bench for one of the biggest clubs in the world.

 

[ash_86]

Now thats rich coming from someone who used number of appearances as measure of player`s game time.

Would it made you happy if i'd included minutes?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I'm no big fan of Martial but if we swap him for Willian I will be disappointed.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Am i correct in assuming that on average people that;

• Thinks Mourinho is the man for the job are not necessarily the biggest fans of Martial.
• Do not think that Mourinho is the man for the job, would like Martial to stay in the event of a future managerial change?

Yep.

However, there's also a segment who may belong to either category - or none of them - who aren't that fussed about Martial, period.

I personally don't think United's future hinges on him, so if the manager doesn't rate him all that highly - by all means, get rid.

Provided a replacement can be secured, of course.

 

[Dante]

Morata's numbers as a sub were even better than Martial's numbers as a sub. Straight swap would make sense with that in mind.

 

[Member 5225]

Morata's numbers as a sub were even better than Martial's numbers as a sub. Straight swap would make sense with that in mind.

That's actually a great shout!

 

[WR10]

I don’t care if he kills the fecking Pope. Martial cannot leave.

 

[JPRouve]

Yep.

However, there's also a segment who may belong to either category - or none of them - who aren't that fussed about Martial, period.

I personally don't think United's future hinges on him, so if the manager doesn't rate him all that highly - by all means, get rid.

Provided a replacement can be secured, of course.

I don't think that he is crucial to United's future but I find it absolutely moronic to make up narratives that don't even make sense when you watch games or look at stats.

 

[arnie_ni]

You’re the one quoting the law without seeming to understand that both parties have a legal obligation. I doubt he was paid £145 a wee while he was away so I think we can rule out the fact he took standard paternity leave that you or I would take. I’ve no idea what he told them and neither do you. He did stay with her.

How many other players have taken that long off for the birth of a child? The issue appears to be lack of communication rather than lack of compassion. If she needed him there and Mourinho was refusing then clearly he was being incredibly unreasonable. Do you know that’s what happened?

I wasn't quoting law i was asking if jose is in breach of law because thats not my field and something id know about...

It appears though, according to martial he didnt take the 10 days or so because of tje birth of a child, he took it because his gf had a complication.

It also appears he didnt communicate this to jose, or least someone didnt communicate it to jose and as you admit yourself you say the issue is this lack of communication.

Shouldn't martial just apologise for not communicating it, jose say thats ok tony, you had more important things to worry about and just get on with it.

His gf had a complication... he didnt communicate with jose... now he's left out of the squad. Sounds like jose is throwing his toys out of the pram to me.

Again, theres more important things than a handful of training sessions and a preseason game. Just get on with it... both of them

 

[Foxbatt]

He has the talent to be among the best. It would be ridiculous to sell to him to one of our rivals. There is no way that Willain is a better player than Martial. It could be the KDB, Salah story once again.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Ill dip my toe into this thread by saying I really dont care if he goes. Hes always seemed lazy to me. That being said, if we are swapping him, surely we go do better than Willian? And giving him to Chelsea? There must be better options out there.

 

[Random Task]

How is he supposed to progress when his role in the team is continually diminished by the management?

Had he been given the same faith as the likes of Lukaku, Sanchez I'm sure he could've contributed on the level of the very best in his position in the league.

And seriously, Macheda? Have a word with yourself..

You're creating illusionary content in order to bolster your claim - just the sort of thing you expect from an oppo. Martial, Rashford and Mctominay have been granted ample opportunities to show their worth to the club. This has been proven in this thread already, just in case you wish to dispute that.

Both Lukaku and Sanchez are proven quality at every level of the game, and they have earned the "faith" shown to them by the manager. Expecting the likes of Martial, a young player who has proven nothing in the game as of yet, to be given the same leeway as the previously mentioned is just silly.

 

[Mainoldo]

Ill dip my toe into this thread by saying I really dont care if he goes. Hes always seemed lazy to me. That being said, if we are swapping him, surely we go do better than Willian? And giving him to Chelsea? There must be better options out there.

What about if Chelsea are the only club that wants him and he wants to go there.

Just let him go.

 

[Yellow Black & Red]

And based on assist and goals per minute played in the PL he was our most efficient player. Part of this is inflated by the insane output he had in the first 3/4 games at the start of last season.
Am i correct in assuming that on average people that;

• Thinks Mourinho is the man for the job are not necessarily the biggest fans of Martial.
• Do not think that Mourinho is the man for the job, would like Martial to stay in the event of a future managerial change?

I'm a fan of Martial and I think Mourinho is on the whole a pretty good manager for United.

For Mourinho to get United to 2nd in two seasons off the back of the dirge under Moyes and van Gaal is no mean feat, and I still think he has more seasons in him as a top manager (certainly more than just this next one, which a bunch of people on here think he won't last beyond). There aren't many other managers who could have dragged United back from that (let's see how much managers such as Emery and Sarri succeed in reviving two other big teams which have fallen out of the Champion's League spots...). His football isn't always the best, but it's not as bad as the general situation for United would have been if they'd kept missing out or flirting with missing out on the top 4 (likely no Pogba, de Gea, or Lukaku at Utd now for instance).

However, I think that his handling of Martial has been his biggest mis-step as a manager thus far. Martial was in his best form since his first season when Sanchez signed, and Sanchez's signing should not have been at the expense of reducing Martial's minutes. It's not a big enough failing yet to mean that he shouldn't continue in the job.

 

[red_de_pologne]

I refuse to believe he'd go to Chelsea. Problems pushing Sanchez out of the starting 11? Ok, let's try with Hazard.. and no CL, so less chances, less exposure..

 

[Mainoldo]

You're creating illusionary content in order to bolster your claim - just the sort of thing you expect from an oppo. Martial, Rashford and Mctominay have been granted ample opportunities to show their worth to the club. This has been proven in this thread already, just in case you wish to dispute that.

Both Lukaku and Sanchez are proven quality at every level of the game, and they have earned the "faith" shown to them by the manager. Expecting the likes of Martial, a young player who has proven nothing in the game as of yet, to be given the same leeway as the previously mentioned is just silly.

Well let’s let him go and prove his worth like Sanchez and Lukaku. Only problem is when he does, he’ll be doing it for a different club. Which is the bit I don’t get.

 

[acnumber9]

I wasn't quoting law i was asking if jose is in breach of law because thats not my field and something id know about...

It appears though, according to martial he didnt take the 10 days or so because of tje birth of a child, he took it because his gf had a complication.

It also appears he didnt communicate this to jose, or least someone didnt communicate it to jose and as you admit yourself you say the issue is this lack of communication.

Shouldn't martial just apologise for not communicating it, jose say thats ok tony, you had more important things to worry about and just get on with it.

His gf had a complication... he didnt communicate with jose... now he's left out of the squad. Sounds like jose is throwing his toys out of the pram to me.

Again, theres more important things than a handful of training sessions and a preseason game. Just get on with it... both of them

Well you did when you said he’s legally entitled to paternity leave. There’s no evidence anybody at Utd has acted illegally, Nobody here really knows the truth of what has happened but it seems fairly clear Martial doesn’t want to be at the club and Mourinho doesn’t really want him there either and it’s influencing the behaviour of both.

 

[K2K]

What about if Chelsea are the only club that wants him and he wants to go there.

Just let him go.

So what?

We dont have to do what he wants.

Gabriel Heinze wanted to go to Liverpool so badly, that he even took the club to court.

We still didnt budge.

Big clubs like us dont get pushed around because it sets us a terrible precedent.

Its not like we will lose much by not selling him this Summer.

 

[SSSSnake]

I'm just going to say Martial hasn't got the mentality required to wear the red shirt. He sulks way too often and hasn't got any fight in him. I'm putting 2 and 2 together and going by his agents comments he wants out. Lets just cut our loses and recoup some money for him. I hope he can go abroad somewhere and not bite us in the ass.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Does anyone have any real news about Martial or is it all speculation? I see he hasn't travelled to Germany but he's not the only player who hasn't.

I'm in the camp which wants Martial to stay but also supports Mourinho. I won't pretend to claim I know what's going on as honestly, I don't know. What I do know is that the media are full of nonsense so I take any reports with wholesale order of salt.

In regards to Martial, if we lose him, we lose an element to our football that in my voew, we can't afford to lose. Unpredictability (when he's in form anyway). We are far to laboured in attack at times due to static players and a lack of cohesion. Martial is the exception here rather than the rule so for me, the club needs to keep him. He's also better than Willian in my opinion. This may be because I've seen more of Martial, but it's my opinion nonetheless.

Is it a case of Jose or Martial though? Not at all. I don't understand the squabbling above and in the other Martial thread over a situation nobody even knows actually exists.

It's all just speculation at the minute, mate. No information has come out except that he hasn't travelled, which could be for a lot of reasons.

I don't agree on him being the exception to static players, he's one of the most static as he doesn't offer good movement off the ball. He is better than Willian at certain things, but he's not better than Willian on the right which we need more than a back up left winger when we already have Rashford for that. It's not the best of swaps on paper, but at the end of the day it's swapping a player we don't exactly need for one that we do need.

 

[arnie_ni]

Well you did when you said he’s legally entitled to paternity leave. There’s no evidence anybody at Utd has acted illegally, Nobody here really knows the truth of what has happened but it seems fairly clear Martial doesn’t want to be at the club and Mourinho doesn’t really want him there either and it’s influencing the behaviour of both.

Well you are legally entitled to paternity leave, im not sure how that can be argued. Yes there is some "red tape" to earn that entitlement, but as whole your entitled to it. Anything more than that ie. Not allowing martial to complete his job by leaving him at home is outside anything I'd know

 

[sp_107]

Yep.

However, there's also a segment who may belong to either category - or none of them - who aren't that fussed about Martial, period.

I personally don't think United's future hinges on him, so if the manager doesn't rate him all that highly - by all means, get rid.

Provided a replacement can be secured, of course.

I have a feeling this might be same as Salah and KDB case for Chelsea

 

[Mainoldo]

So what?

We dont have to do what he wants.

Gabriel Heinze wanted to go to Liverpool so badly, that he even took the club to court.

We still didnt budge.

Big clubs like us dont get pushed around because it sets us a terrible precedent.

Its not like we will lose much by not selling him this Summer.

The people that want him gone say he doesn’t perform. So let him continue that at Chelsea. I think deep down those that want him gone know he’ll forfill his potential which is why they want him gone abroad.

Let him go Chelsea man not like he’s suddenly going to become Thierry Henry. Plus did they not give us Mata and Matic.

 

[arnie_ni]

I have a feeling this might be same as Salah and KDB case for Chelsea

So do i, if he gets his head screwed on

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I don't think that he is crucial to United's future but I find it absolutely moronic to make up narratives that don't even make sense when you watch games or look at stats.

You'll get no argument from me. As suggested by the poster I quoted, there's a correlation between pro-Mou and anti-Tony sentiments on here.

Still, the fact remains that Mou is the manager. And he doesn't fancy Tony all that much, seemingly. The latter doesn't strike me as a good fit for any kind of Jose style setup, to be honest. If he stays, I predict that he'll be a (quite possibly reluctant) useful bench option at best.

If Tony out means Someone in who would actually improve us (even just slightly) under the current management, then I'm for it. Let's call it pragmatism (from a fan perspective). If I knew that Jose wouldn't last till Christmas, and that the next guy would regard Martial as a given starter, I'd feel differently (of course). But I don't know that.

 

[ErranMorad]

I wouldn't have any issues if Martial is sold and we got a proper replacement. It's clear as day that he isn't going to cut it under Jose. Jose doesn't have patience or the nous to mold a young guy like Martial. Having said that, I would be distraught if he goes the other way in any deal for Toby or Willian. That would be the dumbest deal this club would have made in the last 5 years; and boy have we made some stupid deals in this period.

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm just going to say Martial hasn't got the mentality required to wear the red shirt. He sulks way too often and hasn't got any fight in him. I'm putting 2 and 2 together and going by his agents comments he wants out. Lets just cut our loses and recoup some money for him. I hope he can go abroad somewhere and not bite us in the ass.

And you just said he hasn’t got what it takes. So let him go to who ever gives us the money. Why is he going to bite us on the arse. He will just sulk elsewhere too.

 

[acnumber9]

Well you are legally entitled to paternity leave, im not sure how that can be argued. Yes there is some "red tape" to earn that entitlement, but as whole your entitled to it. Anything more than that ie. Not allowing martial to complete his job by leaving him at home is outside anything I'd know

It’s not red tape. It’s a condition of the entitlement. It’s not illegal to deny it if it’s not applied for properly. He’s not being allowed to not do his job anymore than leaving somebody out of a match squad ever is.

 

[Mainoldo]

It’s not red tape. It’s a condition of the entitlement. It’s not illegal to deny it if it’s not applied for properly. He’s not being allowed to not do his job anymore than leaving somebody out of a match squad ever is.

Seriously who flipping cares. What does this have to do with football. Just another circus topic. His got an agent to sort all this stuff out. You think he get paid that much money and know one knows how to sort out something basic like pertnity leave.

 

[Random Task]

Well let’s let him go and prove his worth like Sanchez and Lukaku. Only problem is when he does, he’ll be doing it for a different club. Which is the bit I don’t get.

We all know Martial is a world-class talent, it's simply a matter of the player himself realizing that talent. The issue is whether or not he can reach the level we expect of him whilst playing for United.

If I was Martial's agent I'd be advising him to move on. Preferably abroad, the last thing we fans want is to see him 'doing it' for another English club.

 

[acnumber9]

Seriously who flipping cares. What does this have to do with football. Just another circus topic. His got an agent to sort all this stuff out. You think he get paid that much money and know one knows how to sort out something basic like pertnity leave.

Ask the people who keep bringing it up to find another way to criticise Jose Mourinho.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I have a feeling this might be same as Salah and KDB case for Chelsea

Hard to say.

I'm not convinced Martial will pull a KDB myself, but yeah - that's a risk, sure.

It's a total package to consider, though. KDB and Salah wouldn't have pulled anything under Jose even if he'd been forced to play them. Doesn't really paint Jose in the best light, given the obvious talent of those players - but there you go. He won the league with Chelsea whilst failing to appreciate (so his critics would say) the quality of said players.

Simple point: United should back the moves that make sense given Jose's methods and preferences. Or fire him.

 

[K2K]

The people that want him gone say he doesn’t perform. So let him continue that at Chelsea. I think deep down those that want him gone know he’ll forfill his potential which is why they want him gone abroad.

Let him go Chelsea man not like he’s suddenly going to become Thierry Henry. Plus did they not give us Mata and Matic.

I think he's a good player and wouldn't him at a rival for that very season.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Did he travel with the squad? Because i’d Imagine depending on where his GF is he maybe still isn’t all that keen on leaving her yet. Or Jose now despised him and is trying his very best to get him out the club. Basically whatever works for you.

 

[Damien]

Did he travel with the squad? Because i’d Imagine depending on where his GF is he maybe still isn’t all that keen on leaving her yet. Or Jose now despised him and is trying his very best to get him out the club. Basically whatever works for you.

Nope. Wasn't at the airport. His girlfriend is/was in Paris anyway and he's in Manchester.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Nope. Wasn't at the airport. His girlfriend is/was in Paris anyway and he's in Manchester.

I’m going to go with the it’s still baby related. His fiancé from what I can see is still in France, so he might be needing to sort travel for them so on or just wants to be available at a moments notice and able to get to them If Something should happen.
Probably be sold in a few days now I’ve said that, hope not, gifted player who needs work.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

What about if Chelsea are the only club that wants him and he wants to go there.

Just let him go.

If thats the case, and no one else wants him. What other choice is there? Let him run out his contract and leave on a free to go to Chelsea anyway?

 

[doriandun]

We all know Martial is a world-class talent, it's simply a matter of the player himself realizing that talent. The issue is whether or not he can reach the level we expect of him whilst playing for United.

If I was Martial's agent I'd be advising him to move on. Preferably abroad, the last thing we fans want is to see him 'doing it' for another English club.

firstly martial is not a world class talent, talented yes, but very inconsistent..

As for the de bruyne and salah statement being banded around as a stick to beat mourinho with, is somewhat unfair, as it's only since pep came in the be bruyne has really stood out, in germany he was good let's say six out of 10, and now hes more of an 8 out of 10 consistently, now at an age of 25/26.

Salah on the other hand was consistent at roma, but truly, freakishly outstanding last season.

The fact the chelsea went on to win titles, is testament that for both parties the club and player the best decsion was made, for the club a transfer fee, and for the player an abilty to continue his development in football.

is it not funny that both salah and de bruyne are around the same age, and 25/26, and are really blossoming, but people complain about why jose's goes for players around 25 plus

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He rightfully and correctly didn't travel with the squad. This time he will deservedly be on the fringes and it will all be his fault.