The MMA thread

[Raoul]

How unlikable is Tony Ferguson? Seriously the sun glasses, his attitude he looks like an absolute bellend, calling people casuals, no wonder he doesn’t get as much love as others.
You don’t have to be Connor McGregor just be a decent person and people will want to see you fight.

It will make for great drama (PPV $$) in the lead up to the Khabib fight.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

He’s never been in as big a fight, it’s effectivly a mental issue, not controlling emotions. It was fairly obvious within about 2mins of the first round. Because even for his size he’d have to have the worst cardio ever or the flu to gas that quickly.
Stipe did an absolute job on him and was picking shots earlier on, no one can dispute that Stipe outclassed him. It just kinda sucks that that happened to Ngannou, doesn’t mean if it didn’t the result wouldn’t have been any different it’s just we all want to see people at their best.

He clearly punched himself out. This 'adrenaline dump' and 'lactic acid' bullshit is just that. Bullshit.

He's 6'4 and weighed in at 263. Anthony Joshua is 6'6 and weighs a stone lighter. He needs to lose weight and work on his cardio.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

It will make for great drama (PPV $$) in the lead up to the Khabib fight.

I think most will buy that fight to see Kahbib tho. Ferguson was a tool in the TUF house and I put it down to just been locked in that house for however long but turns out he is generally just a complete tool. It probably doesn’t help that he dresses like Edge from WWE in the 90’s

 

[RedFish]

How unlikable is Tony Ferguson? Seriously the sun glasses, his attitude he looks like an absolute bellend, calling people casuals, no wonder he doesn’t get as much love as others.
You don’t have to be Connor McGregor just be a decent person and people will want to see you fight.

He makes laugh Ferguson. He's not even close to Conor Cringe. Plus he's a far better all-round fighter. I love Ferguson, he's so damn bendy, like inspector gadget made of jelly.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Ferguson is a complete tool, in my opinion. And I hate his stupid ears.

 

[Raoul]

It will be interesting to see what sort of numbers the Khabib-Tony fight does. Tony v Kevin Lee did horrible (only 200k PPV buys).

 

[Andersons Dietician]

He clearly punched himself out. This 'adrenaline dump' and 'latic acid' bullshit is just that. Bullshit.

He's 6'4 and weighed in at 263. Anthony Joshua is 6'6 and weighs a stone lighter. He needs to lose weight and work on his cardio.

Not saying that won’t help, maybe losing 20lbs will help but also if he’s just naturally that size doing road work isn’t going to be good for him. I’ve had adrenaline dumps before, they are absolutly a thing and he didn’t punch himself out as he’d really hardly thrown anything. He did certainly suffer fatigue after Stipe started wearing on him but initially that was an adrenaline dump.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Not saying that won’t help, maybe losing 20lbs will help but also if he’s just naturally that size doing road work isn’t going to be good for him. I’ve had adrenaline dumps before, they are absolutly a thing and he didn’t punch himself out as he’d really hardly thrown anything. He did certainly suffer fatigue after Stipe started wearing on him but initially that was an adrenaline dump.

If you genuinely believe that he hardly threw a punch early then we'll agree to disagree.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Ngannou admitted he punched himself out in the first two rounds of the fight, leaving himself little energy to resist after Miocic survived his onslaught and shifted to a grappling strategy.

“I came here today to win the fight,” he said. “I just discovered a new part (about fighting) that I was ignorant about.”

Although Ngannou still thought he could knock out Miocic heading into championship rounds, his body wouldn’t respond.

“The problem is I underestimated my opponent, and I went too hard in the first round, and he was tougher than I thought,” he said. “So (Miocic) resisted, and he put together a better game plan than me.”

Ngannou brushed off the idea that a hard weight cut was one of the culprits behind his performance. He also dismissed the idea of moving to a different camp after preparing for the fight at the UFC Performance Institute and in his adopted home country of France.

http://mmajunkie.com/2018/01/francis-ngannou-learned-more-at-ufc-220-than-in-four-years-of-mma

 

[JP77]

How unlikable is Tony Ferguson? Seriously the sun glasses, his attitude he looks like an absolute bellend, calling people casuals, no wonder he doesn’t get as much love as others.
You don’t have to be Connor McGregor just be a decent person and people will want to see you fight.

Ferguson couldn't care less how he comes across at times though. He doesn't need to be a decent person (even though he is) for people to want to watch him fight. This dude doesn't do boring fights.

As for last night, wow. You'll struggle to see a top fighter in a championship fight broken more than Ngannou was in that fight. He looked dead on his feet and looked like Stipe had mentally and psychically broken him. We'll find out what he's truly made off and how he rebounds from this. That first round was explosive at times like expected, Miocic managed to weather the storm though and eventually wore him down and broke him. Ngannou with a win or two could be right back to getting another shot though if he's mentally strong enough to bounce back from this.

DC dominated yet again. Surely it's DC/Gus next, back to back wins since his split decision loss to DC, they've got to do that fight again. I see the Stipe/DC talk but that only happens if Cormier fights him and retires right after. No way he will fight Stipe for the belt and stay in the division due to Cain.

 

[Raoul]

Not saying that won’t help, maybe losing 20lbs will help but also if he’s just naturally that size doing road work isn’t going to be good for him. I’ve had adrenaline dumps before, they are absolutly a thing and he didn’t punch himself out as he’d really hardly thrown anything. He did certainly suffer fatigue after Stipe started wearing on him but initially that was an adrenaline dump.

He definitely punched himself out. He came at Stipe hard during the first 90 seconds or so and was eventually forced to pause for a bit half way through the round to regain his breath. At that point, Stipe began chipping away with one off jabs, hooks, and leg kicks, all the while ducking and bobbing to stay just out of reach.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Okay so I've just caught up and wow what a fecking performance from Stipe! Honestly I thought going into that fight that Ngannou was going to catch him in the first round but Stipe got his gameplan spot on. I was nervous as feck for him when they were trading in the first round but he did a good job at managing the distance and was able to just get out the way of Ngannou's power. I loved the way he took Ngannou down and wore him out. It was an excellent performance and right now I think we can call Stipe the best heavyweight of all time. Stipe vs Cain is the fight to make!

I had serious doubts over DC's chin going into the fight with Volkan. My feeling was that he should maybe think about retiring after that nasty KO against Jones. He answered them questions last night and proved me wrong. I thought Volkan fought well in the first round he was catching DC with some great shots but props to DC for taking them and he came on strong towards the end of the round. In the end though DC just proved that overall he's a much better fighter than Volkan. Volkan had no answers to DC's wrestling and ground game. The match up to make next for DC is the rematch with Gustafsson.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

He definitely punched himself out. He came at Stipe hard during the first 90 seconds or so and was eventually forced to pause for a bit half way through the round to regain his breath. At that point, Stipe began chipping away with one off jabs, hooks, and leg kicks, all the while ducking and bobbing to stay just out of reach.

I’m sorry but I’m just can’t see anyone who is a top athlete blowing themselves out after throwing probably less than 40 punches(tried to find exact numbers, don’t seem to be any yet) especially when there are videos of him dropping guys whilst hitting pads for a minute in which he is probably throwing a punch or kick every 2, 3 seconds.

Obviously there is a mental aspect involved in a real fight as well but to me at first that clearly looked like an adrenaline issue and then Stipes excellent game plan and just ability he seems to have to find away came through.

 

[Raoul]

Okay so I've just caught up and wow what a fecking performance from Stipe! Honestly I thought going into that fight that Ngannou was going to catch him in the first round but Stipe got his gameplan spot on. I was nervous as feck for him when they were trading in the first round but he did a good job at managing the distance and was able to just get out the way of Ngannou's power. I loved the way he took Ngannou down and wore him out. It was an excellent performance and right now I think we can call Stipe the best heavyweight of all time. Stipe vs Cain is the fight to make!

I had serious doubts over DC's chin going into the fight with Volkan. My feeling was that he should maybe think about retiring after that nasty KO against Jones. He answered them questions last night and proved me wrong. I thought Volkan fought well in the first round he was catching DC with some great shots but props to DC for taking them and he came on strong towards the end of the round. In the end though DC just proved that overall he's a much better fighter than Volkan. Volkan had no answers to DC's wrestling and ground game. The match up to make next for DC is the rematch with Gustafsson.

Yeah if there was one lessoned learned last night its that one-dimensional big punchers will eventually get exposed once they fight top level opposition like DC and Stipe. The only way to win consistently is by being good at both stand up and ground and having great cardio.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Ngannou looked visibly broken when he was lying flat on the mat with Stipe on top of him.

 

[Raoul]

I’m sorry but I’m just can’t see anyone who is a top athlete blowing themselves out after throwing probably less than 40 punches(tried to find exact numbers, don’t seem to be any yet) especially when there are videos of him dropping guys whilst hitting pads for a minute in which he is probably throwing a punch or kick every 2, 3 seconds.

Obviously there is a mental aspect involved in a real fight as well but to me at first that clearly looked like an adrenaline issue and then Stipes excellent game plan and just ability he seems to have to find away came through.

Ngannou definitely gassed. It was pretty obvious to see. Walking around at about 275 after rehydration is not a good weight to last more than a round or two. After that the cardio falls off a cliff.

 

[duffer]

How's Sonnen beaten Rampage? He must have been about 2 stone lighter!

 

[justboy68]

Two great champions no doubt. They may not have been the most storming fights ever, but it's good to see a well-rounded MMA game come out on top. You gotta have that wrestling folks. Ngannou definitely had a huge adrenaline dump, I think it's fair to say the occasion got to him a little bit. Of course he would gas anyway exerting that much effort, but it seemed even more pronounced than just a cardio issue alone.

Miocic has proven himself the greatest HW of all time in my opinion. I know many people will say Cain, but as an overall body of work Miocic has it. That will be a hell of a fight if it happens, I hope we will see it one day. DC is a legend, plain and simple. Truly exceptional fighter and leader for his team.

 

[Nucks]

At what weight?

Any weight. DC when he was HW was better than Stipe everywhere. Only reason he left HW, was Cain was the champ and they are bros.

 

[Raoul]

Sounds like Whitaker is in pretty bad shape.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/dana-white-robert-whittaker-serious-condition-093702840--mma.html

 

[Nucks]

Two great champions no doubt. They may not have been the most storming fights ever, but it's good to see a well-rounded MMA game come out on top. You gotta have that wrestling folks. Ngannou definitely had a huge adrenaline dump, I think it's fair to say the occasion got to him a little bit. Of course he would gas anyway exerting that much effort, but it seemed even more pronounced than just a cardio issue alone.

Miocic has proven himself the greatest HW of all time in my opinion. I know many people will say Cain, but as an overall body of work Miocic has it. That will be a hell of a fight if it happens, I hope we will see it one day. DC is a legend, plain and simple. Truly exceptional fighter and leader for his team.

The HW division isn't like the other divisions in MMA, where clear progress has been made, the sport and the fighters have evolved etc. The HW division is no different in terms of development than it was in 2003. Just look at the top 10 guys, look at the top 10 guys from 4 years ago. Werdum was just the champion, and he was one of the top guys 10 years ago.

When you talk about the best guy at HW ever, there is really only one correct answer currently, and that is Fedor. Fedor from the early 2000's to the late 2000's beats anyone. Why? He was on a different level athletically speaking. If you want to get technical, Fedor if he came from a weight cutting culture, would be a small 205'r. In fact, I think a case could be made that with diet to lean out his chubby frame, combined with water cutting, the guy could have gotten within spitting distance of 185. He obliterated all of the top guys from his era that he had the opportunity to fight.

Fedor has declined sharply, but that's no different than any other guy whose talent is predicated largely on speed, agility and quickness. Once that goes with age, you end up like Roy Jones Junior, arguably one of the greatest of all times, who got smashed on the regular at the end.

The evidence that the division hasn't progressed is just looking at the guys who have been in and around the top 10. Arlovski. Hunt. Werdum. Reem. BigNog held the title when he first came over. Sure, Cain came along and he was pretty good. Ask yourself, who did Cain beat though to assert himself? Guys who Fedor had already beaten, who Fedor beat when they were in their physical prime, not older men in decline like when Cain did it. In fact, BigNog from 2003-2004 is probably better than any HW currently in the game, a level of boxing that is higher than anyone else at HW I am aware of, plus world class JJ. The guy was a beast, and Fedor RAG DOLLED him.

The HW division in MMA is really a throw back division, where rounded guys are rare. Guys still tend to be specialists, because at HW you can get away with it so much better. You take prime Stipe, and prime Fedor, and I don't see any possible way Stipe wins. Stipe is tough, but so was/is Fedor. Is there a more relentless guy who doesn't know how to stop in all of MMA than Fedor? Maybe Rory McDonald. Stipe is way slower, way less dynamic, way more limited.

Yes Fedor fought some cans, but he also fought the absolute top guys in the sport who were legit as feck, and destroyed all of them. For almost a DECADE.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Roy Jones was a fighter who relied on his 'super human' reflexes. Fundamentally, he was a poor boxer. He also moved from LHW to HW, and back down again before losing (the DQ vs Griffin notwithstanding). Tarver also happened to be a stylistic nightmare for him.

I don't see the Fedor comparison at all.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Ngannou definitely gassed. It was pretty obvious to see. Walking around at about 275 after rehydration is not a good weight to last more than a round or two. After that the cardio falls off a cliff.

It’s possible but at that size he probably already carries an absolute tonne of water weight. I don’t think that would be as an extreme cut. The effects wouldn’t be as bad as the likes of Kahbib and that trying to get to weight. Adam Shcerr much bigger guy but for example he lost 40 pounds in 4 days.
If you look at Ngannou at weigh in he just looks like a cut guy and not someone depleting at all.

 

[Raoul]

Sounds like the UFC is raising their PPV prices. They are either not making enough money and need more revenue to offset losses - or they are doing so well that they think viewers don't mind paying more. I'm inclined to believe the former over the latter.

http://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/ufc-220/ufc-220-appears-starting-new-increase-ppv-price/

 

[justboy68]

The HW division isn't like the other divisions in MMA, where clear progress has been made, the sport and the fighters have evolved etc. The HW division is no different in terms of development than it was in 2003. Just look at the top 10 guys, look at the top 10 guys from 4 years ago. Werdum was just the champion, and he was one of the top guys 10 years ago.

When you talk about the best guy at HW ever, there is really only one correct answer currently, and that is Fedor. Fedor from the early 2000's to the late 2000's beats anyone. Why? He was on a different level athletically speaking. If you want to get technical, Fedor if he came from a weight cutting culture, would be a small 205'r. In fact, I think a case could be made that with diet to lean out his chubby frame, combined with water cutting, the guy could have gotten within spitting distance of 185. He obliterated all of the top guys from his era that he had the opportunity to fight.

Fedor has declined sharply, but that's no different than any other guy whose talent is predicated largely on speed, agility and quickness. Once that goes with age, you end up like Roy Jones Junior, arguably one of the greatest of all times, who got smashed on the regular at the end.

The evidence that the division hasn't progressed is just looking at the guys who have been in and around the top 10. Arlovski. Hunt. Werdum. Reem. BigNog held the title when he first came over. Sure, Cain came along and he was pretty good. Ask yourself, who did Cain beat though to assert himself? Guys who Fedor had already beaten, who Fedor beat when they were in their physical prime, not older men in decline like when Cain did it. In fact, BigNog from 2003-2004 is probably better than any HW currently in the game, a level of boxing that is higher than anyone else at HW I am aware of, plus world class JJ. The guy was a beast, and Fedor RAG DOLLED him.

The HW division in MMA is really a throw back division, where rounded guys are rare. Guys still tend to be specialists, because at HW you can get away with it so much better. You take prime Stipe, and prime Fedor, and I don't see any possible way Stipe wins. Stipe is tough, but so was/is Fedor. Is there a more relentless guy who doesn't know how to stop in all of MMA than Fedor? Maybe Rory McDonald. Stipe is way slower, way less dynamic, way more limited.

Yes Fedor fought some cans, but he also fought the absolute top guys in the sport who were legit as feck, and destroyed all of them. For almost a DECADE.

That's fair, I should clarify I was just basing my judgement on UFC history only. Fedor was honestly before my time so I can't really comment although I know many consider him the best to have done it in the HW division, so I'll take their word for it. I have watched some of his big fights so I know he was great in his PRIDE days no doubt. I'd say Stipe has surpassed Cain as the best HW in UFC history, based on an overall body of work, if not peak performance. I agree with you on HW division being different too, I was thinking this last night, the dials and variables are so different to other divisions that it almost feels like watching a different sport sometimes.

 

[Oggmonster]

Gassing through natural means comes from a fighter not being fit enough for the fight at hand, adrenaline dumps are not the same and are a complete X-factor variable a fighter cannot prepare for in the gym.

I didn't expect Ngannou to be so tense, but the pressure clearly got to him and it cost him a lot in terms of his own energy management regardless of what Stipe was doing. Stipe was savvy enough to exploit it, like a proper pro would, and that's an equaliser I wouldn't have factored into the fight.

Personally, it'd be disingenuous to not factor in the aforementioned because it took the fight down a different path - that's not Stipe's concern - not at all, but I couldn't sit here and say it's not an issue.

By the time Ngannou is rounded in terms of experience of title pressure/environment and is given another title shot, Miocic may well not be the same fighter, or even the champion (for a myriad of reasons) so this is likely to be a one-off that there can be no dispute in it going to the champion.

I'd love for them to do it again ASAP, but there's no reason for that to happen as the loss has to put Ngannou back into the chasing pack as well as Stipe having no reason to take the fight after proving people wrong the first time out.

Each to their own I suppose, for me though it's a case of tiring himself out rather than any kind of adrenaline dump. It just seems an excuse that for me. Each to their own and all that but for me it is a clear case he was pretty over rated before the fight (I said the same as well) people looked at his size and thought he's untouchable and it wasn't the case. He had 1 plan and it was obvious in the first minute of the fight, once it didn't work he was done. Look at him during the exchanges on the ground, he literally just lies down and doesn't attempt to do much. It was a mauling.

Personally when it’s happened to me I’ve always shook it off in like 10 minutes or so but by that time I’m guessing Ngannou was already screwed because Stipe had already been wearing on him so it is hard to say he just has no cardio. We’d really need to see this happen again see what happens when he goes deep.

I do totally agree, his skill level got exposed drastically but again that could have been due to the exhaustion or adrenaline dump. I think it’s more like his team just focused on what brought him this far and he isn’t as skilled as he should be, he’s probably just always relied on his power for everything.

What we did learn about Ngannou is that he can take an absolute beating and take a punch.

As I've said above I can't buy the adrenaline dump stuff but each to their own. I just think he got exposed really.

I think his team definitely worked on the 1 aspect of his game a lot which he's already very good at and completely neglected the rest of his game. Once he was down on the mat it was done every time.

He can take a punch to be fair, I thought it might of been stopped in the fourth though, whilst he was taking punches on the ground he was offering nothing back. It was a bit embarrassing really.

My theory on it is the UFC is desperate for stars. Both Volkan and Ngannou are no where near the level they were fighting at the other night and it got exposed. The UFC have shot themselves in the foot as well. Realistically no one has any desire to watch them 2 fights back and now Volkan and Ngannou will have to start from the back of the pack again. The LHW division in particular is really thin and once DC fights Gus (which I'm guessing happens) it's kind of stuck. Unless Cain comes back I can't see much happening in the HW division either.

Sounds like the UFC is raising their PPV prices. They are either not making enough money and need more revenue to offset losses - or they are doing so well that they think viewers don't mind paying more. I'm inclined to believe the former over the latter.

http://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/ufc-220/ufc-220-appears-starting-new-increase-ppv-price/

Glad we don't have to pay for it yet. I imagine they're dreading what 221 and 222 do numbers wise. I reckon 221 could be one of the worst drawing cards ever. The whole card is terrible with the exception of the main event and neither main eventer has any drawing power. 222 is pretty similar really.

 

[Fortitude]

Each to their own I suppose, for me though it's a case of tiring himself out rather than any kind of adrenaline dump. It just seems an excuse that for me. Each to their own and all that but for me it is a clear case he was pretty over rated before the fight (I said the same as well) people looked at his size and thought he's untouchable and it wasn't the case. He had 1 plan and it was obvious in the first minute of the fight, once it didn't work he was done. Look at him during the exchanges on the ground, he literally just lies down and doesn't attempt to do much. It was a mauling.

We may both be guilty of looking at this through a pre-conceived lens, as I don't buy what you're saying as much as you believe I'm making excuses to maintain my position.

Let me try and break this down in a way where I just put my thoughts out there:

Ngannou punched himself out, we can both agree on that; the reason he punched himself out, however, is not because it was a strategy, but because the occasion and probably the hype pushing him left him wanting to make an emphatic impression with an absolute smashing of his opponent. Not once before this fight has Ngannou fought in that manner - all his previous KO's were a byproduct of what he had tactically set up, and his shot selection and output on Saturday night completely betrayed that.

You can say that's all on Stipe, if you want, but I don't believe he had anything to do with it; Ngannou was high on being told he was a beast who could just do what he wanted and off the back of that did not adopt the sound strategies that earned him that title shot in the first place. He also said he underestimated the champion, which although his own fault, he would not do again if they rematched.

This thing about him being clueless on the ground is true, but are the reasons for it as absolute as people are suggesting? I don't know about that; my impression of the whole fight post adrenaline dump was that Ngannou was experiencing something he'd never had to deal with in his life - the lactic build up in his muscles; the shock of his body not doing what he wants and things along those lines go before the problems Stipe piled on top of that, for me. You mix the two together and you get someone who looks absolutely bewildered as Ngannou did. This can obviously sound like an excuse, but I'm in no way refuting he was out of it, but I am questioning the whys and whether they are conclusive.

For the reasons listed in my previous posts, I don't see a time in the future where these two rematch, so for those that see the things I've mentioned purely as excuses, there won't be an opportunity for it to be proven otherwise, whilst for those that do think AD played a big part in the fight, there's always going to be a more questions to ask.

I assume you believe if they fought again, things would be the exact same, right? Whereas for me, Ngannou actually goes out there and fights in-keeping with how he did in every fight pre-title - maybe the outcome would be the same, maybe not, but all this 'one dimensional' talk only came about post this fight, the one fight where Ngannou fought in the most un-Ngannou fashion of his UFC career.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Ngannou lost every second of that fight. If they fought again it would be exactly the same. You got taken in by the hype, it happens.

 

[Oggmonster]

We may both be guilty of looking at this through a pre-conceived lens, as I don't buy what you're saying as much as you believe I'm making excuses to maintain my position.

Let me try and break this down in a way where I just put my thoughts out there:

Ngannou punched himself out, we can both agree on that; the reason he punched himself out, however, is not because it was a strategy, but because the occasion and probably the hype pushing him left him wanting to make an emphatic impression with an absolute smashing of his opponent. Not once before this fight has Ngannou fought in that manner - all his previous KO's were a byproduct of what he had tactically set up, and his shot selection and output on Saturday night completely betrayed that.

You can say that's all on Stipe, if you want, but I don't believe he had anything to do with it; Ngannou was high on being told he was a beast who could just do what he wanted and off the back of that did not adopt the sound strategies that earned him that title shot in the first place. He also said he underestimated the champion, which although his own fault, he would not do again if they rematched.

This thing about him being clueless on the ground is true, but are the reasons for it as absolute as people are suggesting? I don't know about that; my impression of the whole fight post adrenaline dump was that Ngannou was experiencing something he'd never had to deal with in his life - the lactic build up in his muscles; the shock of his body not doing what he wants and things along those lines go before the problems Stipe piled on top of that, for me. You mix the two together and you get someone who looks absolutely bewildered as Ngannou did. This can obviously sound like an excuse, but I'm in no way refuting he was out of it, but I am questioning the whys and whether they are conclusive.

For the reasons listed in my previous posts, I don't see a time in the future where these two rematch, so for those that see the things I've mentioned purely as excuses, there won't be an opportunity for it to be proven otherwise, whilst for those that do think AD played a big part in the fight, there's always going to be a more questions to ask.

I assume you believe if they fought again, things would be the exact same, right? Whereas for me, Ngannou actually goes out there and fights in-keeping with how he did in every fight pre-title - maybe the outcome would be the same, maybe not, but all this 'one dimensional' talk only came about post this fight, the one fight where Ngannou fought in the most un-Ngannou fashion of his UFC career.

Maybe you're right re your first point. For what it's worth I appreciate your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't think anyone is wrong just like you say we're looking at it from different points of view.

There's no right or wrong answer I suppose unless one of us speaks to the guy and asks him. For me it just seemed a case he was in against a much better fighter than he's ever fought before and he just looked lost. I think the camp knew the longer the fight went on it would get worse for him, I think we all knew that. And therefore they knew it had to end in Round 1 ideally or maybe push to 2. By the third round he was absolutely exhausted it seemed and you could make a cost for him in the 2nd being the same.

I think he looked clueless from the ground game whatever the circumstances I really do, I just don't think he trained at the level he experienced which is completely his and his teams fault. It was obvious Stipe wouldn't try and punch with him regularly as that was his strongest part of his game.

Re the last point I do think it would pretty much go the same yeah, I think Stipe wins it every time. For what it's worth and this may be controversial but I think as long as a champion like Stipe is around someone of the ability of Ngannou won't be champion with exception of a freak knock out. I think most wrestlers would be confident against him now as well. I imagine the UFC matches him with a striker in his next fight to give him another easy win and build him back up.

 

[Verbalkint]

I think it was an absolute masterclass from Stipe - he had Ngannou figured out and counted on him gassing. The first round was amazing - he gets hit, comes back strong, hurts Ngannou with a lovely combination and takes him down. Fantastic execution of the game plan ; Stipe is intelligent, disciplined and a good tactician.

 

[justboy68]

Ngannou lost every second of that fight. If they fought again it would be exactly the same. You got taken in by the hype, it happens.

Depends when they fight, it would be crazy to totally write him off just yet. What if he trains hard for the next 3 years say? He's clearly got the natural talent and attributes to do well as we saw in his rise to the title fight. It's also true that he never comes out quite as crazy as he did against Stipe. I saw enough in the fights against the likes of Bleydes and Mihajlovic (sp) to be confident that he still has a bright future.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Depends when they fight, it would be crazy to totally write him off just yet. What if he trains hard for the next 3 years say? He's clearly got the natural talent and attributes to do well as we saw in his rise to the title fight. It's also true that he never comes out quite as crazy as he did against Stipe. I saw enough in the fights against the likes of Bleydes and Mihajlovic (sp) to be confident that he still has a bright future.

You realise he's already 31, right?

 

[JP77]

Depends when they fight, it would be crazy to totally write him off just yet. What if he trains hard for the next 3 years say? He's clearly got the natural talent and attributes to do well as we saw in his rise to the title fight. It's also true that he never comes out quite as crazy as he did against Stipe. I saw enough in the fights against the likes of Bleydes and Mihajlovic (sp) to be confident that he still has a bright future.

Depends when they fight, it would be crazy to totally write him off just yet. What if he trains hard for the next 3 years say? He's clearly got the natural talent and attributes to do well as we saw in his rise to the title fight. It's also true that he never comes out quite as crazy as he did against Stipe. I saw enough in the fights against the likes of Bleydes and Mihajlovic (sp) to be confident that he still has a bright future.

Not even time like that. They could fight tomorrow and it could be a different result. We aren't talking about a dude with no weapons to pull it off. Ngannou has a huge weapon which is his power. On a different day it's possible he catches Stipe in round one and knocks him out. The idea that it couldn't happen is silly.

Stipe dominated that fight by a country mile but at this level and in the heavyweight division, things can easily go a different route when the top fighters face each other. Ngannou always would have a shot early due to this power.

 

[Raoul]

I think it was an absolute masterclass from Stipe - he had Ngannou figured out and counted on him gassing. The first round was amazing - he gets hit, comes back strong, hurts Ngannou with a lovely combination and takes him down. Fantastic execution of the game plan ; Stipe is intelligent, disciplined and a good tactician.

Yeah that was the most impressive part about Stipe's perfrormance. He had a brilliant tactical game plan and managed to execute it perfectly.

 

[EdWeatherall]

Ngannou lost every second of that fight. If they fought again it would be exactly the same. You got taken in by the hype, it happens.

Yup
Unless Stipe decided to finally take his back and choke him out

 

[George Owen]

People calling Ngannou a hype train LOL!!

Please people remember that Miocic was KO'd by Struve ffs!!! (if Struve is reading this, i'm just making a point, nothing wrong in loosing with you)

Ngannou will be back and will probably be champion at some point. He is a child in HW standards. (and in MMA terms too...)

He just fought 5 round against the champion and one of the best ever, and he didn't even was close to being finished. Time to time guys...

 

[George Owen]

 

[Dirty Schwein]

People calling Ngannou a hype train LOL!!

Please people remember that Miocic was KO'd by Struve ffs!!! (if Struve is reading this, i'm just making a point, nothing wrong in loosing with you)

Ngannou will be back and will probably be champion at some point. He is a child in HW standards. (and in MMA terms too...)

He just fought 5 round against the champion and one of the best ever, and he didn't even was close to being finished. Time to time guys...

Those bold bits. He's a work in progress yet the UFC tried to ram him down our throats to be something he's not... Yet.

 

[George Owen]

Those bold bits. He's a work in progress yet the UFC tried to ram him down our throats to be something he's not... Yet.

One thing is the hype from the UFC to sell the PPV and create their next superstar, and other thing is the hype generated by Ngannou himself. It was him who left a trail of stiff bodies in the octagon. You don't need the UFC to tell you the guy is special.

He obviously is not at his top level yet, but where he is right now is enough to be a top 5 HW.

 

[justboy68]

You realise he's already 31, right?

Yes, that makes him a baby in terms of heavyweights. He could possibly still have 10 years to improve and fight at thge top level. Especially because he started late so hasnt accumalated much damage in his years so far. When Stipe was roughly his age he was getting knocked out by Stefan Struve.