What?
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
A considerable variable for me that I'd always be concerned about with Fury is his state of mind. Would he get as up for a 3rd as he has been for 1 and 2?
1 was proving the world wrong for writing him off or underestimating him; 2 was to fix what was a travesty of 1st fight call. What would 3 be for? Would Fury have the same fire and motivation in his belly to do it again?
Not saying he would lose, but comprehensively putting it to bed is not assured, imo because of the potential for him to not be the same in there.
He's always chasing the dragon, and one would hope he doesn't go into a slump now that he's caught another one. Imo, he needs another to keep him focused and determined to make his point. I have doubts that Wilder 3 would be it.
He must’ve meant Wilder, not Fury.
No refuting that and I'm not championing Wilder, just highlighting that his threat is real and I don't think there's another HW that gets up if he connects other than Fury and his freakish ability in the 1st fight.
Wilder is at a loose end now though as nobody has a reason to fight him. He doesn't have any belts and isn't a particularly big draw, plus he's still a wildcard risk for those who are trying to get to the top, rather than settling scores like Whyte is wont to do.
Whyte would fight him for free, any time he'd accept the bout. I don't think there's another HW with any stock looking at Wilder now rather than Joshua and Fury.
I could well be wrong as I don't watch much boxing but Fury looked like a clubber with terrible technique in this fight. When I've watched Joshua his technique looked much better.
Lewis was co-commentating on the ESPN coverage and I found him, for want of a better word, ‘odd’. He wasn’t very articulate at all, which was surprising considering his standing in the game. Andre Ward was much better in co-commentary, I found.
Yeah they picked that Fury match hoping to get him early as a soft touch before he was at full fitness and well it backfired.
Got to add last few fights I generally thought Wilder was actually improving but last night looked very much like the old Wilder sacrificing his position and balance trying to throw a wild big looping shot That Fury could read from a mile away. Actually felt Fury had a load of opportunities to land fight ending shots as Wilder was lunging in.
Wilder looked terrified by the end of the 1st and knackered by the end of the 3rd, he generally just got outclassed.
Fury vs AJ who knows. AJ has the power and has technique to go with that power but just think Fury could just spoil most of what AJ brings and win it on points. Not sure Fury would have the power to stop AJ so points win Fury for me.
I mean, we don’t know do we? Wilder’s highest ranked opponent ever is #12 Ortiz. Who he beat twice but looked like he was very close to losing to. Eventually knocking the 40 year old out. He’s never fought anyone in the top ten. Ever. His punching power is obvious, but we don’t have much proof of actually how good it really is. Other than a bunch of lower ranked fighters. Iron Mike ripped into Wilder a couple of months ago, and basically said he couldn’t be taken seriously because his opponents had been so poor. The guy is 34 and had over 40 bouts, but never fought a top ten fighter until he got mauled by Fury.
The more I think about it, the less seriously I can take this guy, and the more ridiculous the hype around him really is. The only way forward for him now is to actually fight some quality opponents.
It might even help him to have lost his preposterous unbeaten record, which basically meant nothing.
Just to add to this, Fury has said himself that he doesn't know what his true power is like because his style was not to plant his feet to generate any. The guy flicks and moves eith the intent to frustrate and wind his opponents up to then take them apart via a thousand cuts.
His near 20st. Frame set itself this time and displayed his true power, which is pretty interesting going forward because it's an option for him now and something opposing camps have to incorporate into their gameplans.
When you combine that with his clinch work and the down force of all that weight resting on an opponent, he really is a rounded and difficult package to contend with given it's only an option to fight that way for him rather than a given.
So to summarise the thread, we might as well just call off heavyweight boxing and proclaim Fury the best ever.
Fury looked great of course, but it’s not like he showed any kind of amazing power that AJ should be scared of. He hit Wilder to the ear, had him stumbling around for about 4 rounds and still couldn’t land a shot to finish it. The uppercut looked there all night, when Wilder was ducking in.
Would be surprised if they didn’t fight again, Wilder can’t really be taken seriously if he doesn’t, it’s almost like admitting you need to take some time to improve because you weren’t good enough.
Fury looked great of course, but it’s not like he showed any kind of amazing power that AJ should be scared of. He hit Wilder to the ear, had him stumbling around for about 4 rounds and still couldn’t land a shot to finish it. The uppercut looked there all night, when Wilder was ducking in.
Would be surprised if they didn’t fight again, Wilder can’t really be taken seriously if he doesn’t, it’s almost like admitting you need to take some time to improve because you weren’t good enough.
The "I told you so" takes on a fight are never the most endearing, but the signs were all there with Wilder. He hasn't built a career on fighting the best and the knockdown in the 12th of the first fight perhaps blinded people to a lot of glaring deficiencies he has.
The apprehension about his ability to land a big right, Fury's cut and lack of good preparation... all possibilities but more likely just noise to place doubt in people's minds because nobody is going to be invested and buy a fight if they think Wilder is overrated and Fury can easily walk to a UD.
I don't see Wilder developing beyond what he is now, so he should jump at any possible third fight or simply go back to padding his record. Doing the latter in anticipation of the former is just a waste of everybody's time.
The apprehension about his ability to land a big right, Fury's cut and lack of good preparation... all possibilities but more likely just noise to place doubt in people's minds because nobody is going to be invested and buy a fight if they think Wilder is overrated and Fury can easily walk to a UD.
I don't see Wilder developing beyond what he is now, so he should jump at any possible third fight or simply go back to padding his record. Doing the latter in anticipation of the former is just a waste of everybody's time.
I think Fury has done plenty in his career to prove himself as the best current HW. He definitely doesn’t have much knock out power though, but we’ve always known this. He’s favourite against Joshua because he has more variability and is much more competent in his movement and defense.
That said, a demolishing of Wilder isn’t as impressive as the hype train would make one believe. Joshua has fought 6 fights against top ten fighters, winning 5. In about 23 fights. Wilder has fought none in 40 odd bouts, until he got pulverised by Fury.
Fury is a favourite against Joshua, considerably so. But mainly because there are serious question marks over Joshua’s head. Not because Fury is some amazing boxer. He’s just the best there is right now. Which isn’t saying much.
Delighted for Tyson to come back and win this after the judges scoring in the first bout. Tyson not only schooled Wilder tactically and technically but he beat him up too, which is perhaps the more surprising thing here.
It would not surprise me if Wilder does invoke the rematch but he can only be doing that for a pay day. I doubt there is much appetite from the public to want to see a third fight there.
Perhaps put Wilder v Whyte on the same bill for the mandatory shot at the winner.
It would not surprise me if Wilder does invoke the rematch but he can only be doing that for a pay day. I doubt there is much appetite from the public to want to see a third fight there.
Perhaps put Wilder v Whyte on the same bill for the mandatory shot at the winner.
This will not go down well.
Is anyone saying they don’t want Fury v AJ???
No fight fan will say “no” to that
many on here just seem to think Fury will win
after last night you can kind of understand because he blew Wilder out of this Galaxy, I think Wilder is actually on the far side of Andromeda Galaxy right now
in all seriousness I think Fury v AJ would be very unpredictable
AJ is a good fighter, certainly not a One trick right hook pony like Wilder, AJ is a proper boxer and he showed that he’s more than just power against Ruiz
Fury v AJ is the only fight we need next
I’d agree with pretty much all of that. I still find it weird how AJ gets battered by people saying he ducks fights. In reality, like you said, he’s fought far tougher fighters in a shorter space of time. Probably too short. He definitely could have done with more time in the ring.
Shame on you all for doubting the king, blasphemous lot.
Fury landed an ear shot that took Wilder's balance away..fight was over right then and there, same as Ruiz vs Joshua I
Think people are reading too much into this fight just as they did with Ruiz and Joshua. Fury is the better boxer but that was a 1 in a 1000 shots he landed that ended the fight
Bring on Fury vs AJ
Think people are reading too much into this fight just as they did with Ruiz and Joshua. Fury is the better boxer but that was a 1 in a 1000 shots he landed that ended the fight
Bring on Fury vs AJ
Absolutely. When you look at the facts, AJ hasn’t ducked anyone. Wilder is the biggest ducker of all time. An entire career built on fighting nobodies. Joshua has nothing to fear from Wilder. Yeah, he’s got a mean right hand, and in boxing anyone can beat anyone on the right day and with the right luck. But this fearsome pedigree of Wilder is pure mythology.
No one is reading too much into one Fury/Wilder fight, we've seen two, and Fury won them both comfortably.
Absolutely.
Some would have you believe different but a quick look at their opponents tells a different story. I'm certain AJ will rightly or wrongly jump at the chance to be Fury's next opponent also.
I can't say with any certainty what Wilder will do next, my guess is he might fancy meeting Fury on a bad day again and getting third time lucky by landing that right, but why would Fury even want that fight? Will Wilder then face Whyte? No chance for me as Whyte beats him so if I had to guess, it'll be Parker else he'll finally sit down and make a big AJ payday work. Question is then, will AJ even bother if he can get the Fury fight?
I can’t see how AJ would have any answer for the battering he would get with Tyson in that sort of form. It could get real ugly. I was astonished Wilder was able to stay on his feet from round 2, we all saw what happened when AJ got caught by that Ruiz punch. Would be over inside 4 rounds.
Not so sure Fury vs AJ will be a financial blockbuster.
Highly doubt the US PPV crowed will bother tuning it, even if they host the fight in Las Vegas or New York. If hosted at Wembley or Old Trafford it will be mainly a UK viewership, which is relatively small $$$.
@Raoul what do you think?
Wilder v Ruiz would be a good match up (if ultra fat Ruiz doesn’t show up). Fury v AJ then they fight winner of the ex champs. Fans want to see top guys going up against each other.
Then the up coming guys can start challenging.
Wilder/Fury 3 wont generate anywhere close to the hype and PPV as this fight.
Fury/AJ has to be the next fight, else the casuals will stay away.
Ruiz has a hell of a lot more power than Fury. AJ is also a significantly better boxer than Wilder. Wilder can't even get the basics right. What he has is concussive power. Once Fury took that away from him, he had nothing. I was surprised to see Fury keep to his word and fight on the front foot. I thought he would try to outbox him for 12 rounds and that eventually Wilder would land one of his lucky shots. Thankfully he didn't, and we got to see Fury expose Wilder for the substandard boxer he really is.
Absolutely true. Wilder fans hyped this one up and tried to ignore what happened in the first fight, bit harder now isn't it. I can't seriously get excited or invested in a 3rd fight which only has one result.
Fury far and away the superior boxer in both matches against a one trick pony. That trick has been successful up until now, and will be again against lesser opponents, but let’s not bother with a third fight between these two.
If prime Vitali flight Fury prime. Vitali looks silly.
If Wilder has a right to a rematch in his contract it’s up to him if it happens or not. With that comment I meant that fights are business contracts negotiated like any any other business deals. That’s why there so much nonsense in boxing and very little sporting justice. It’s why Wilder - Fury 3 might happen. Most fights are smoke and mirrors with salesmen try to make you believe something has more value than it really does. Wilder is a case in point, the guy had never fought a top 10 ranked fighter in his whole career before Fury yet people believed he was an important fighter.
‘You sign an agreement; you make a contract, you live up to it. You never get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate’
Don King
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Love him to come and show those belts at Old Trafford
Amazing fight from Fury... apart from round 2 he bossed him in almost every way.
AJ vs. Fury has to happen... I don't think AJ would box as dumb as Wilder did, so it'd be a much closer fight, but hard to look past Fury winning right now.
AJ vs. Fury has to happen... I don't think AJ would box as dumb as Wilder did, so it'd be a much closer fight, but hard to look past Fury winning right now.
Fury's transformation over the past 2 years is unprecedented and all the positive mental, psychological and physical momentum will continue til his next fight. He will be feeling the love and admiration of his fanbase and has nothing to fear.
Joshua meanwhile has several unresolved issues to deal with. I also think he's lost a lot of fans and respect because he has taken on too many easy purely money making fights recently.
I really hope Fury/Warren banters AJ with with some 'chicken' taunts and see how AJ/Hearn respond.
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But the fight won’t happen ‘right now’
It’s a year/18 months away. AJ will be a better boxer by then. Fury older but not sure he’ll be in better shape
Who was he supposed to fight?
Nah come on. silly?
Fs
Yeah. Robotic. Not a one punch guy. Tyson has that ability to move. He takes them apart.
Sorry disagree completely. Didn't look robotic against Lewis before the fight was stopped for a cut.