The RedCafe Boxing Thread

JP77 said:
They haven't even had a proper conference or sit down together so I'm not sure why any commentators are putting him ahead in the mind games.

It just makes Whyte look silly really. You can't refuse to promote a fight ffs. He knows how it works, he's obviously done it on purpose rather than "he's doing it to focus on his fight camp". It's absolute nonsense. He loves to run his mouth on social media and in previous build ups to fights with Chisora etc.

I do genuinely think he has a shot in this fight though. I really hope he's not the guy to beat Fury but I think this will be a quality fight on the night if he can get inside Fury and land shots.
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I still don't get why you think it makes him look silly. All he's done is say "you won't give me good enough commercial terms to be arsed coming to promote your fight so I'm going to focus on my training". At least on the face of it. It's a classic mistake bastard businessmen make is to not give a stakeholder enough incentive to engage and everyone ends up losing out on a bit of money, but you as the bastard businessman moreso than them.
 
Anyone else excited for the Chocolatito v Martinez fight this weekend? should be a belter!
 
Balljy said:
There's zero chance of Fury quitting before fighting the winner of Joshua / Usyk in my opinion. I think the threat is to get a bigger payday by having to entice him out of "retirement"
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He just talks some shite sometimes before changing his mind and backtracking. I doubt he plans the day after tomorrow.
 
JP77 said:
They haven't even had a proper conference or sit down together so I'm not sure why any commentators are putting him ahead in the mind games.

It just makes Whyte look silly really. You can't refuse to promote a fight ffs. He knows how it works, he's obviously done it on purpose rather than "he's doing it to focus on his fight camp". It's absolute nonsense. He loves to run his mouth on social media and in previous build ups to fights with Chisora etc.

I do genuinely think he has a shot in this fight though. I really hope he's not the guy to beat Fury but I think this will be a quality fight on the night if he can get inside Fury and land shots.
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Same. Wilder levelled Fury in 2 of their 3 fights & Whyte is considerably better technically, with a similar amount of power. I don’t see this as a one-sided fight at all
 
I don't watch too much boxing except the big fights on PPV so please forgive me if my question has an obvious answer...

One of my friends was saying David Haye is one of the most underrated British boxers of all time. He said the likes of Prince Naseem and Lennox Lewis get all the limelight but Haye was as good as them...

Is this true?
 
Dirty Schwein said:
I don't watch too much boxing except the big fights on PPV so please forgive me if my question has an obvious answer...

One of my friends was saying David Haye is one of the most underrated British boxers of all time. He said the likes of Prince Naseem and Lennox Lewis get all the limelight but Haye was as good as them...

Is this true?
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At cruiser weight he was fantastic fighter with really great knockout power, but when he moved to heavy weight he wasn’t as impressive, still good mind and won a world title but nothing like cruiser weight Haye were he unified the belts.

You could put him above Nazeem but he’s not close to Lewis at all I don’t think.
 
Deery said:
At cruiser weight he was fantastic fighter with really great knockout power, but when he moved to heavy weight he wasn’t as impressive, still good mind and won a world title but nothing like cruiser weight Haye were he unified the belts.

You could put him above Nazeem but he’s not close to Lewis at all I don’t think.
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Naseem was/is a piece of crap as a person but lb for lb is better than Haye in my view.
Despite being a poor trainer his ability allowed him to dominate his weight class only losing once to a superb fighter in Barrera.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Naseem was/is a piece of crap as a person but lb for lb is better than Haye in my view.
Despite being a poor trainer his ability allowed him to dominate his weight class only losing once to a superb fighter in Barrera.
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Lost to Barrera and was never seen again though, he had freakish power but when he came up against a top class operator he was badly found out.
 
Deery said:
Lost to Barrera and was never seen again though, he had freakish power but when he came up against a top class operator he was badly found out.
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No he had one more fight and won it.

He easily beat several very good fighters in the days when he could be arsed preparing for a fight.

Most professional analysts rate him very highly.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
No he had one more fight and won it.

He easily beat several very good fighters in the days when he could be arsed preparing for a fight.

Most professional analysts rate him very highly.
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Well he’s still rated as one of the best British boxers, but I’d have Haye around the same if not higher than him. Think he’s remembered more fondly as he was a bit of a phenomenon at the time.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
I don't watch too much boxing except the big fights on PPV so please forgive me if my question has an obvious answer...

One of my friends was saying David Haye is one of the most underrated British boxers of all time. He said the likes of Prince Naseem and Lennox Lewis get all the limelight but Haye was as good as them...

Is this true?
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Not in the same class as Lewis. I think Lewis has to be in a top ten British fighters of all time, probably pretty high up as well. Beat everybody he fought, loads of solid names on his record.

To me Haye isn't even top 10. Nor Hamed. I think those two are a fair comparison, they are a clear class below and it strikes me as odd that they're featuring in the same discussion as Lewis.

I don't think they have a convincing body of work in the context of British greats, they both have a few solid wins but came up short against the best men they fought (Wlad, Barrera). Also cruiserweight was pretty much a wasteland at the time Haye was dominant. Both had huge weaknesses in their game (Hayes's stamina, chin and Hamed's defence and unpredictable style being completely exposed against a technician). It's an interesting comparison as they were both fantastic athletes more so than technicians and had extreme power.
 
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Abraxas said:
Not in the same class as Lewis. I think Lewis has to be in a top ten British fighters of all time, probably pretty high up as well. Beat everybody he fought, loads of solid names on his record.

To me Haye isn't even top 10. Nor Hamed. I think those two are a fair comparison, they are a clear class below and it strikes me as odd that they're featuring in the same discussion as Lewis.

I don't think they have a convincing body of work in the context of British greats, they both have a few solid wins but came up short against the best men they fought (Wlad, Barrera). Also cruiserweight was pretty much a wasteland at the time Haye was dominant. Both had huge weaknesses in their game (Hayes's stamina, chin and Hamed's defence and unpredictable style being completely exposed against a technician). It's an interesting comparison as they were both fantastic athletes more so than technicians and had extreme power.
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No argument from me about Haye who I'm not a great fan of but struggling to think of 9 better than Hamed.
I go back 50 years in watching boxing on TV and sometimes in person and Hamed really was exceptional in his day. Probably his scuminess outside the ring contributes to him being devalued as a fighter.
I'd put Lewis, Buchanan possibly Taylor and Eubank above him but after that..
 
Gentleman Jim said:
No argument from me about Haye who I'm not a great fan of but struggling to think of 9 better than Hamed.
I go back 50 years in watching boxing on TV and sometimes in person and Hamed really was exceptional in his day. Probably his scuminess outside the ring contributes to him being devalued as a fighter.
I'd put Lewis, Buchanan possibly Taylor and Eubank above him but after that..
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I think you have to give credit to the historical figures that set the standards in their own eras. Might just be my personal approach but I think that's only fair to those fighters. If you're talking about th TV era then you're probably right.
 
Abraxas said:
I think you have to give credit to the historical figures that set the standards in their own eras. Might just be my personal approach but I think that's only fair to those fighters. If you're talking about th TV era then you're probably right.
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Mate, few people dislike recency bias more than me but we really can't include such as Jimmy Wilde, Randy Turpin or even Henry Cooper in the debate.The parameters are just too blurred to do so.
 
Deery said:
At cruiser weight he was fantastic fighter with really great knockout power, but when he moved to heavy weight he wasn’t as impressive, still good mind and won a world title but nothing like cruiser weight Haye were he unified the belts.

You could put him above Nazeem but he’s not close to Lewis at all I don’t think.
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He was really good but not close to Hamed and a million miles of Lewis & Calzaghe, the two best Brits since Ken Buchanan IMO. He did look electrifying at cruiser but compare him to a true great like Usyk and see how Usyk didn’t lose at cruiser, won all the belts, against better opponents and has already done more at heavyweight.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
He was really good but not close to Hamed and a million miles of Lewis & Calzaghe, the two best Brits since Ken Buchanan IMO. He did look electrifying at cruiser but compare him to a true great like Usyk and see how Usyk didn’t lose at cruiser, won all the belts, against better opponents and has already done more at heavyweight.
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I'd say Haye overachieved really - not knocking him at all but he pulled out the performance of a lifetime a couple of times when he really needed it.

Exciting to watch too but never in the same class as the others you mention.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Mate, few people dislike recency bias more than me but we really can't include such as Jimmy Wilde, Randy Turpin or even Henry Cooper in the debate.The parameters are just too blurred to do so.
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I don't see why they can't and shouldn't be considered. They're British and they were boxers. It's not easy to do but on what basis can they be excluded, just because they fought in black and white? They did the exact same thing, put gloves on and punched holes in people.

Yes sports science was different, technique was different, conditions were different, the nature of their careers were different but they still had achievement and still fought which is the bare essentials of what is needed to ascertain how great they were. They don't need to be matched up with anyone modern to do so, we're not gonna pit Hamed with Wilde any more than we would put Hamed with Haye!

It's all fantasy debate, and all fairly meaningless anyway so I don't see that it has to contain strict parameters. Boxing p4p lists etc never has been and never will be a discussion requiring rigour or precision, it's just one for us armchair fans to flap our gums about.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
He was really good but not close to Hamed and a million miles of Lewis & Calzaghe, the two best Brits since Ken Buchanan IMO. He did look electrifying at cruiser but compare him to a true great like Usyk and see how Usyk didn’t lose at cruiser, won all the belts, against better opponents and has already done more at heavyweight.
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Usyk is very special though and maybe one of the most gifted natural fighters to ever lace them up, no shame in not being as good as Usyk.

Only Usyk, Holyfield and Haye have unified at cruiser and moved up to win a world heavyweight championship belt, now not saying he’s as good but he keeps good company.

I much preferred him at cruiser though and think he would be rated higher if he spent his career there instead, heavyweight Haye wasn’t really my cup of tea either.
 
Deery said:
I much preferred him at cruiser though and think he would be rated higher if he spent his career there instead, heavyweight Haye wasn’t really my cup of tea either.
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I was a massive Haye fan but at heavyweight he really sullied his reputation. Pulling out of all those fights and toegate made him look more like a poser than a fighter. Nas is one of my favourite fighters of all time so I'd definitely have him above Haye but I'm biased.
 
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Watching Conlin v Wood here and this has to be the most biased commentary I’ve ever heard towards the English man. I can’t see how Wood has won a round yet Froch is praising these shots that are blocked and parried easily by Michael.
 
cyberman said:
Watching Conlin v Wood here and this has to be the most biased commentary I’ve ever heard towards the English man. I can’t see how Wood has won a round yet Froch is praising these shots that are blocked and parried easily by Michael.
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Froch is from Nottingham and a big Leigh Wood fan has been for years.
 
Boxing is such a shower at the moment. Top fighters won’t fight each other. Whenever one of them gets in the ring they’re an 8/1 favourite…..and they want insane money for fighting cans. Everyone licking canelo’s arsehole and begging to fight him , so they can get paid to lose. Scorecards that are actually criminal. And let’s not even talk about the promoters.
I know none of this is remotely new but I’m curious for some of the older fans in here….is it in a worse state than ever? Feels that way to me
 
Deery said:
I don’t know if Conlan’s ever been this deep with a quality fighter before, wouldn’t write Wood off just yet.
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Michael can only throw it away now. Wood obviously got hurt from a body shot, his arm hasn’t left his side to protect it and can’t defend the left because of it. Hard to overcome
 
Leigh Wood wins tough fighter, never thought Conlan had it in him, bet on the knockout..
 
thebelfastboy said:
Michael Conlan is leaving the arena on a stretcher. Steve Bunce on radio commentary says he is talking and looking up at the crowd.
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Great to hear. Hopefully the couple of blokes who dived over to help stopped his head from hitting the floor like it could have.

Fell straight down on the top of his head from the ring to the floor while out cold. Could easily have been killed.

 


Good news.
The end to the fight was really concerning. Even on a replay I didn't see anything land. He just sort of flopped?
Edit: Maybe caught with a right.
 
Where does Conlan go from here, only chased the fight because it was his easiest chance at a world title but gets knocked out badly. I always had my doubts about him at world level, don’t know what his next move would be.
 
Deery said:
Where does Conlan go from here, only chased the fight because it was his easiest chance at a world title but gets knocked out badly. I always had my doubts about him at world level, don’t know what his next move would be.
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If I were him I’d try for the rematch. He was ahead on all 3 scorecards going into the 12th. Hard one to take
 
cyberman said:
If I were him I’d try for the rematch. He was ahead on all 3 scorecards going into the 12th. Hard one to take
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I think the same thing would happen in a rematch, Leigh wouldn’t be interested anyway and rightfully so. He got into the championship rounds and was knocked out was predictable enough.
 
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