The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[Gentleman Jim]

Heavyweight division is in bits really.

Can’t see Usyk fighting any time soon. Joshua in limbo. Fury looking to quit.

Gone from the most active and competitive division in years to stalemate!

Looks likely to fragment. Fancy Joyce/Dubois/Jared Anderson to have a say in the belts before too long.

 

[Balljy]

There's zero chance of Fury quitting before fighting the winner of Joshua / Usyk in my opinion. I think the threat is to get a bigger payday by having to entice him out of "retirement"

 

[SilentWitness]

Most commentators think that Whyte is ahead in the mind games contest so far by refusing to play Patsy to Fury's antics.
All this "England and St George" bollocks made me feel a bit nauseous (and I'm usually a Fury fan).

I agree with the latter part of your post but I don’t think it matters with Fury. I think he’s just far better than any other boxer out there in the division.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

I agree with the latter part of your post but I don’t think it matters with Fury. I think he’s just far better than any other boxer out there in the division.

We don't know that, do we?
As I said earlier I like Fury as a boxer but his resume is a bit soft.
Joshua, Usyk and 3 or 4 prospects/contenders have claims for giving him a good scrap.

 

[TMDaines]

People already getting excited and speculating about carving up Usyk’s belts is a bit disrespectful.

 

[TheReligion]

People already getting excited and speculating about carving up Usyk’s belts is a bit disrespectful.

Who is doing that then?

 

[TMDaines]

Who is doing that then?

Ergh, some boxing blue ticks on Twitter. Wasn't a comment about people here.

 

[TheReligion]

Ergh, some boxing blue ticks on Twitter. Wasn't a comment about people here.

Oh do show? interested to see

 

[JP77]

Most commentators think that Whyte is ahead in the mind games contest so far by refusing to play Patsy to Fury's antics.
All this "England and St George" bollocks made me feel a bit nauseous (and I'm usually a Fury fan).

They haven't even had a proper conference or sit down together so I'm not sure why any commentators are putting him ahead in the mind games.

It just makes Whyte look silly really. You can't refuse to promote a fight ffs. He knows how it works, he's obviously done it on purpose rather than "he's doing it to focus on his fight camp". It's absolute nonsense. He loves to run his mouth on social media and in previous build ups to fights with Chisora etc.

I do genuinely think he has a shot in this fight though. I really hope he's not the guy to beat Fury but I think this will be a quality fight on the night if he can get inside Fury and land shots.

 

[TwoSheds]

They haven't even had a proper conference or sit down together so I'm not sure why any commentators are putting him ahead in the mind games.

It just makes Whyte look silly really. You can't refuse to promote a fight ffs. He knows how it works, he's obviously done it on purpose rather than "he's doing it to focus on his fight camp". It's absolute nonsense. He loves to run his mouth on social media and in previous build ups to fights with Chisora etc.

I do genuinely think he has a shot in this fight though. I really hope he's not the guy to beat Fury but I think this will be a quality fight on the night if he can get inside Fury and land shots.

I still don't get why you think it makes him look silly. All he's done is say "you won't give me good enough commercial terms to be arsed coming to promote your fight so I'm going to focus on my training". At least on the face of it. It's a classic mistake bastard businessmen make is to not give a stakeholder enough incentive to engage and everyone ends up losing out on a bit of money, but you as the bastard businessman moreso than them.

 

[G-manc]

Anyone else excited for the Chocolatito v Martinez fight this weekend? should be a belter!

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Anyone else excited for the Chocolatito v Martinez fight this weekend? should be a belter!

The Estrada fights have been classics and Martinez is a great replacement.

 

[The Cat]

There's zero chance of Fury quitting before fighting the winner of Joshua / Usyk in my opinion. I think the threat is to get a bigger payday by having to entice him out of "retirement"

He just talks some shite sometimes before changing his mind and backtracking. I doubt he plans the day after tomorrow.

 

[T00lsh3d]

They haven't even had a proper conference or sit down together so I'm not sure why any commentators are putting him ahead in the mind games.

It just makes Whyte look silly really. You can't refuse to promote a fight ffs. He knows how it works, he's obviously done it on purpose rather than "he's doing it to focus on his fight camp". It's absolute nonsense. He loves to run his mouth on social media and in previous build ups to fights with Chisora etc.

I do genuinely think he has a shot in this fight though. I really hope he's not the guy to beat Fury but I think this will be a quality fight on the night if he can get inside Fury and land shots.

Same. Wilder levelled Fury in 2 of their 3 fights & Whyte is considerably better technically, with a similar amount of power. I don’t see this as a one-sided fight at all

 

[Gringo]

Similar amount of power!? What

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

@Inter Yer Nan your thoughts?

Ian John-Lewis should be investigated personally and never judge again

Sorry, haven’t logged in for a while. I honestly didn’t have a huge problem with the decision. I think it was close enough to be a one round either way type fight. I’m told that’s crazy so I’ll have to watch and judge it again.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I don't watch too much boxing except the big fights on PPV so please forgive me if my question has an obvious answer...

One of my friends was saying David Haye is one of the most underrated British boxers of all time. He said the likes of Prince Naseem and Lennox Lewis get all the limelight but Haye was as good as them...

Is this true?

 

[Deery]

I don't watch too much boxing except the big fights on PPV so please forgive me if my question has an obvious answer...

One of my friends was saying David Haye is one of the most underrated British boxers of all time. He said the likes of Prince Naseem and Lennox Lewis get all the limelight but Haye was as good as them...

Is this true?

At cruiser weight he was fantastic fighter with really great knockout power, but when he moved to heavy weight he wasn’t as impressive, still good mind and won a world title but nothing like cruiser weight Haye were he unified the belts.

You could put him above Nazeem but he’s not close to Lewis at all I don’t think.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

At cruiser weight he was fantastic fighter with really great knockout power, but when he moved to heavy weight he wasn’t as impressive, still good mind and won a world title but nothing like cruiser weight Haye were he unified the belts.

You could put him above Nazeem but he’s not close to Lewis at all I don’t think.

Naseem was/is a piece of crap as a person but lb for lb is better than Haye in my view.
Despite being a poor trainer his ability allowed him to dominate his weight class only losing once to a superb fighter in Barrera.

 

[Deery]

Naseem was/is a piece of crap as a person but lb for lb is better than Haye in my view.
Despite being a poor trainer his ability allowed him to dominate his weight class only losing once to a superb fighter in Barrera.

Lost to Barrera and was never seen again though, he had freakish power but when he came up against a top class operator he was badly found out.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Lost to Barrera and was never seen again though, he had freakish power but when he came up against a top class operator he was badly found out.

No he had one more fight and won it.

He easily beat several very good fighters in the days when he could be arsed preparing for a fight.

Most professional analysts rate him very highly.

 

[Deery]

No he had one more fight and won it.

He easily beat several very good fighters in the days when he could be arsed preparing for a fight.

Most professional analysts rate him very highly.

Well he’s still rated as one of the best British boxers, but I’d have Haye around the same if not higher than him. Think he’s remembered more fondly as he was a bit of a phenomenon at the time.

 

[Abraxas]

I don't watch too much boxing except the big fights on PPV so please forgive me if my question has an obvious answer...

One of my friends was saying David Haye is one of the most underrated British boxers of all time. He said the likes of Prince Naseem and Lennox Lewis get all the limelight but Haye was as good as them...

Is this true?

Not in the same class as Lewis. I think Lewis has to be in a top ten British fighters of all time, probably pretty high up as well. Beat everybody he fought, loads of solid names on his record.

To me Haye isn't even top 10. Nor Hamed. I think those two are a fair comparison, they are a clear class below and it strikes me as odd that they're featuring in the same discussion as Lewis.

I don't think they have a convincing body of work in the context of British greats, they both have a few solid wins but came up short against the best men they fought (Wlad, Barrera). Also cruiserweight was pretty much a wasteland at the time Haye was dominant. Both had huge weaknesses in their game (Hayes's stamina, chin and Hamed's defence and unpredictable style being completely exposed against a technician). It's an interesting comparison as they were both fantastic athletes more so than technicians and had extreme power.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Not in the same class as Lewis. I think Lewis has to be in a top ten British fighters of all time, probably pretty high up as well. Beat everybody he fought, loads of solid names on his record.

To me Haye isn't even top 10. Nor Hamed. I think those two are a fair comparison, they are a clear class below and it strikes me as odd that they're featuring in the same discussion as Lewis.

I don't think they have a convincing body of work in the context of British greats, they both have a few solid wins but came up short against the best men they fought (Wlad, Barrera). Also cruiserweight was pretty much a wasteland at the time Haye was dominant. Both had huge weaknesses in their game (Hayes's stamina, chin and Hamed's defence and unpredictable style being completely exposed against a technician). It's an interesting comparison as they were both fantastic athletes more so than technicians and had extreme power.

No argument from me about Haye who I'm not a great fan of but struggling to think of 9 better than Hamed.
I go back 50 years in watching boxing on TV and sometimes in person and Hamed really was exceptional in his day. Probably his scuminess outside the ring contributes to him being devalued as a fighter.
I'd put Lewis, Buchanan possibly Taylor and Eubank above him but after that..

 

[Abraxas]

No argument from me about Haye who I'm not a great fan of but struggling to think of 9 better than Hamed.
I go back 50 years in watching boxing on TV and sometimes in person and Hamed really was exceptional in his day. Probably his scuminess outside the ring contributes to him being devalued as a fighter.
I'd put Lewis, Buchanan possibly Taylor and Eubank above him but after that..

I think you have to give credit to the historical figures that set the standards in their own eras. Might just be my personal approach but I think that's only fair to those fighters. If you're talking about th TV era then you're probably right.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

I think you have to give credit to the historical figures that set the standards in their own eras. Might just be my personal approach but I think that's only fair to those fighters. If you're talking about th TV era then you're probably right.

Mate, few people dislike recency bias more than me but we really can't include such as Jimmy Wilde, Randy Turpin or even Henry Cooper in the debate.The parameters are just too blurred to do so.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

At cruiser weight he was fantastic fighter with really great knockout power, but when he moved to heavy weight he wasn’t as impressive, still good mind and won a world title but nothing like cruiser weight Haye were he unified the belts.

You could put him above Nazeem but he’s not close to Lewis at all I don’t think.

He was really good but not close to Hamed and a million miles of Lewis & Calzaghe, the two best Brits since Ken Buchanan IMO. He did look electrifying at cruiser but compare him to a true great like Usyk and see how Usyk didn’t lose at cruiser, won all the belts, against better opponents and has already done more at heavyweight.

 

[The Cat]

He was really good but not close to Hamed and a million miles of Lewis & Calzaghe, the two best Brits since Ken Buchanan IMO. He did look electrifying at cruiser but compare him to a true great like Usyk and see how Usyk didn’t lose at cruiser, won all the belts, against better opponents and has already done more at heavyweight.

I'd say Haye overachieved really - not knocking him at all but he pulled out the performance of a lifetime a couple of times when he really needed it.

Exciting to watch too but never in the same class as the others you mention.

 

[Abraxas]

Mate, few people dislike recency bias more than me but we really can't include such as Jimmy Wilde, Randy Turpin or even Henry Cooper in the debate.The parameters are just too blurred to do so.

I don't see why they can't and shouldn't be considered. They're British and they were boxers. It's not easy to do but on what basis can they be excluded, just because they fought in black and white? They did the exact same thing, put gloves on and punched holes in people.

Yes sports science was different, technique was different, conditions were different, the nature of their careers were different but they still had achievement and still fought which is the bare essentials of what is needed to ascertain how great they were. They don't need to be matched up with anyone modern to do so, we're not gonna pit Hamed with Wilde any more than we would put Hamed with Haye!

It's all fantasy debate, and all fairly meaningless anyway so I don't see that it has to contain strict parameters. Boxing p4p lists etc never has been and never will be a discussion requiring rigour or precision, it's just one for us armchair fans to flap our gums about.

 

[Deery]

He was really good but not close to Hamed and a million miles of Lewis & Calzaghe, the two best Brits since Ken Buchanan IMO. He did look electrifying at cruiser but compare him to a true great like Usyk and see how Usyk didn’t lose at cruiser, won all the belts, against better opponents and has already done more at heavyweight.

Usyk is very special though and maybe one of the most gifted natural fighters to ever lace them up, no shame in not being as good as Usyk.

Only Usyk, Holyfield and Haye have unified at cruiser and moved up to win a world heavyweight championship belt, now not saying he’s as good but he keeps good company.

I much preferred him at cruiser though and think he would be rated higher if he spent his career there instead, heavyweight Haye wasn’t really my cup of tea either.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I much preferred him at cruiser though and think he would be rated higher if he spent his career there instead, heavyweight Haye wasn’t really my cup of tea either.

I was a massive Haye fan but at heavyweight he really sullied his reputation. Pulling out of all those fights and toegate made him look more like a poser than a fighter. Nas is one of my favourite fighters of all time so I'd definitely have him above Haye but I'm biased.

 

[cyberman]

Watching Conlin v Wood here and this has to be the most biased commentary I’ve ever heard towards the English man. I can’t see how Wood has won a round yet Froch is praising these shots that are blocked and parried easily by Michael.

 

[Deery]

Watching Conlin v Wood here and this has to be the most biased commentary I’ve ever heard towards the English man. I can’t see how Wood has won a round yet Froch is praising these shots that are blocked and parried easily by Michael.

Froch is from Nottingham and a big Leigh Wood fan has been for years.

 

[Deery]

Will Leigh Wood tough Conlan out of the victory?

 

[cyberman]

Will Leigh Wood tough Conlan out of the victory?

I’m smelling a robbery.

 

[Deery]

I’m smelling a robbery.

I don’t know if Conlan’s ever been this deep with a quality fighter before, wouldn’t write Wood off just yet.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Boxing is such a shower at the moment. Top fighters won’t fight each other. Whenever one of them gets in the ring they’re an 8/1 favourite…..and they want insane money for fighting cans. Everyone licking canelo’s arsehole and begging to fight him , so they can get paid to lose. Scorecards that are actually criminal. And let’s not even talk about the promoters.
I know none of this is remotely new but I’m curious for some of the older fans in here….is it in a worse state than ever? Feels that way to me

 

[cyberman]

I don’t know if Conlan’s ever been this deep with a quality fighter before, wouldn’t write Wood off just yet.

Michael can only throw it away now. Wood obviously got hurt from a body shot, his arm hasn’t left his side to protect it and can’t defend the left because of it. Hard to overcome

 

[thebelfastboy]

Its been a great fight, conlon has been very good

 

[Deery]

Oh, Knockdown.