The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[SteveCoppellFan]

Its a bit boring when all these people associated with boxing come out and say things like its a robbery etc, its just a rinse and repeat and has been happening for ages.

Like I've said before, boxing is not a sport anymore, its a business and business dictated Fury had to win that fight once it went to a points decision.

I do not get why people get wound up over this, everyone knows what boxing is like these days.

PS .. I did have Tyson to be knocked down in rounds 1 - 3 at 14's on Paddy Power .. thank you very much

 

[rimaldo]

surprised no one in here is talking up moses itauma. some are saying he’s a generational talent.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Jon jones v ngannou bigger than anything boxing could ever offer. Please make it happen

Bones is injured so can't see that happening.

Anyway, this is one of the reasons I stopped watching the "sport" of boxing years ago (the other being that the big fights everyone wants take too long to happen or never happen at all). I only dip in and out occasionally these and see the same old bullshit fixed results. Canelo never beat GGG in that first fight. Usyk lost his last fight etc.

Francis won that fight and at absolute worst it was a draw. Dunno how they declare Fury the winner.

Anyway, that's me out again for a long while.

 

[Kinsella]

A great night for Ngannou (& MMA), and a very very bad night for boxing.

Everyone knows it wouldn’t have gone passed the first round had they fought in the octagon.

 

[Fabio Rochemback]

I didn't see it, but most people seem to think Ngannou should have won or at least that it was very very close... how is it even possible? This is something akin to if the England rugby team got a draw in a football match against the England football team (not a 1:1 comparison, I know). How?!

 

[Rams]

surprised no one in here is talking up moses itauma. some are saying he’s a generational talent.

Moses who?

 

[Red Rash]

Francis did way better than I expected. I thought Fury would toy with him but I think Fury was apprehensive after getting knocked down.

Wonder what would have happened if Ngannou got the win. I know it wasn't for the title but to beat the heavyweight champion would have put the sport in a pretty horrible position.

 

[Bilbo]

A great night for Ngannou (& MMA), and a very very bad night for boxing.

The very bad nights seem to far outweigh the good nowadays. These heavyweights seem to be completely unaware or unconcerned about the damage they are doing to boxing. I think they're a disgrace personally.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

The Fury brothers are destroying what reputation boxing had left

 

[G-manc]

I thought the 96-93 was harsh but a ‘ robbery’ is a bit dramatic. Wouldn’t have argued with a draw or point either way.

Fury was poor though and fought scared after he was dropped.

 

[cyberman]

Was just reading Reddit and they make a good point about that clinch that had Fury fall down in the 7th being a knockdown itself. Tyson gets caught with a sly punch and falls forward but the absolute mess that it turned into disguised the knockdown

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

I'm still pissed we won't get the Jones fight but what a legend Francis is man, made Dana look a completely prick. Wish he'd thrown a few cheeky hammer fists after the knockdown

 

[Smithy89]

Francis dropping him just shows how an MMA fight would go, no standing ten count to save him from the pummeling he'd have took.

 

[FriedClams]

Was just reading Reddit and they make a good point about that clinch that had Fury fall down in the 7th being a knockdown itself. Tyson gets caught with a sly punch and falls forward but the absolute mess that it turned into disguised the knockdown

I wondered about this, is there a video of it?

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I'm still pissed we won't get the Jones fight but what a legend Francis is man, made Dana look a completely prick. Wish he'd thrown a few cheeky hammer fists after the knockdown

I still think a fully focused Bones would beat Ngannou in MMA.

Ngannou doing well in boxing will lead to other MMA guys trying to move in and they won't do as well.

Francis in MMA didn't use many kicks and struggled when taken down by Stipe. He did work on it though and looked better after that Stipe loss (ignoring the horrible fight against Lewis).

With that said, everything good we've seen from Francis in MMA involved his boxing. The only time he showed a different side is vs. Gane but that's against someone who only kick-boxes and has zero wrestling or bjj.

Francis has always been "boxing first" so a boxing match suits him. Most of these MMA guys would probably get smoked (and even if not, they are never gonna win a decision, that's clear).

 

[Baneofthegame]

But out landing by a thin margins doesn’t mean anything, the judges dont have access to these stats. It’s averages out to one extra shot per round. My point was the volume wasn’t there to claim Tyson out worked him when he clearly didn’t. Both looked equally busy throughout the fight, it’s really the output that judges are drawn to (rightly or wrongly)
It just seems to me that there were rounds that little happened that fans give to Tyson and it needs Ngannou putting it on Fury get him a round and that’s a compete misrepresentation of how little happened in this fight. If there wasn’t a knockdown a lot more onlookers would be giving Ngannou one or Two more rounds that they’re currently giving Tyson

I mean that’s just bias one way or another, unfortunately boxing scoring is very subjective even by judges, if you’re giving rounds to a fighter because they got knocked down then it’s ridiculous bias.

Same way people were overhyping Ngannous work because he’s a novice, every punch that hit a glove or even air was wildly hyped.

It was a close fight on Fury’s worst day to Ngannous best, I thought it could been given either way.

Fury/Ngannou

10/9
10/9 close
8/10
9/10
10/9
10/9
10/9 close
9/10
10/9
9/10 close

95/94 Fury

Feel like rounds 2, 7 and 10 could of gone either way.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Fury was poor, looked like he barely trained and I guess he can't go full fight camp before the bigger fight. Ngannou did great. Was so patient and clever with his energy.

Why is it that MMA people can't understand why it was a clear fury win though? Do they think the rules of boxing should be thrown out and the person that got the bigger shot in in ten rounds / 30 wins? Ngannou was dead on his feet after 5 rounds.

 

[DJ_21]

How does a guy that gets knocked down win? There’s a lot of fixing going on in boxing. It’s because they don’t want it to become a mockery. That’s why they can never give an MMA fighter a win against a pro boxer. Or a YouTuber a win against a pro boxer.

 

[Jim Beam]

Biggest slight on Fury is that he pretty much couldn't hurt Francis with any of his punches and after he landed on his ass he didn't want any of the close exchanges (almost avoiding them) relying on his jab and reach to bail him out. A jab that was so weak that Francis looked totally unbothered comfortably going all 10 rounds when one of the biggest concerns prior to this fight was his stamina. If anyone was relieved it ended it was Fury. Francis also looked more composed in the ring and imo should have won the fight.

Don't know, maybe embarrassing is a bit too strong after you just got richer for 50 million with so little to do, but purely looking at it from sport perspective it's hard to find a better word.

 

[FriedClams]

Huge misconception that more punches landed = win round. This isn’t amateur boxing.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

How does a guy that gets knocked down win?

Neatly sums up the typical casual view of boxing

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Biggest slight on Fury is that he pretty much couldn't hurt Francis with any of his punches and after he landed on his ass he didn't want any of the close exchanges (almost avoiding them) relying on his jab and reach to bail him out. A jab that was so weak that Francis looked totally unbothered comfortably going all 10 rounds when one of the biggest concerns prior to this fight was his stamina. If anyone was relieved it ended it was Fury. Francis also looked more composed in the ring and imo should have won the fight.

Don't know, maybe embarrassing is a bit too strong after you just got richer for 50 million with so little to do, but purely looking at it from sport perspective it's hard to find a better word.

True but also clear fury was managing out the fight after round 5 was ngannou was too exhausted to realistically win on the card. If fury felt it was close or had something to prove or if it wasn't an exhibition in the land of the sand he would have fought differently. Might not have been different outcome but not much chance fury hurts ngannou at 30pc

 

[Withnail]

How does a guy that gets knocked down win? There’s a lot of fixing going on in boxing. It’s because they don’t want it to become a mockery. That’s why they can never give an MMA fighter a win against a pro boxer. Or a YouTuber a win against a pro boxer.

It because of the rules. It's a different sport to MMA. A knock-down isn't a death sentence in boxing.

Fury was knocked down against Wilder but got back up and was clearly the better fighter throughout the fight. You can get hit with a shot out of the blue but in boxing that doesn't mean you have to lose the fight.

 

[Pirlo'sBeard]

Fury underestimated Francis.

He thought it would be a pretty easy fight. I certainly thought it. Understandably apprehensive after getting put on his arse.

Delighted for Francis. Unimaginable money. One of the good guys.

 

[Jim Beam]

True but also clear fury was managing out the fight after round 5 was ngannou was too exhausted to realistically win on the card. If fury felt it was close or had something to prove or if it wasn't an exhibition in the land of the sand he would have fought differently. Might not have been different outcome but not much chance fury hurts ngannou at 30pc

I guess if you want to really try and dig any positives in Fury performance last night then him managing out the fight would be the only one (have something to prove/this being an exhibition just goes in excuse territory). But still, the very fact that he had to rely on such tactic is a bad look and purely looking at the punches landed by each round it was still so damn close with some of the rounds that could easily go either way (as seen even with the judges).

Don't know, baffled that after a knock down and aside from the occasional jab he managed to create almost zero openings with his actual movement and boxing.

 

[General_Elegancia]

Amazing Job from Francis despite loss. He shows it.

 

[Fortitude]

Fury was poor, looked like he barely trained and I guess he can't go full fight camp before the bigger fight. Ngannou did great. Was so patient and clever with his energy.

Why is it that MMA people can't understand why it was a clear fury win though? Do they think the rules of boxing should be thrown out and the person that got the bigger shot in in ten rounds / 30 wins? Ngannou was dead on his feet after 5 rounds.

N'Gannou caught a second wind after a breather in the 6th and 7th and then saw out the fight comfortably, winning rd 8 with ease. Rd 9 and 10, Fury was extremely tentative at a time he would normally look to finish strong.

 

[Jim Beam]

N'Gannou caught a second wind after a breather in the 6th and 7th and then saw out the fight comfortably, winning rd 8 with ease. Rd 9 and 10, Fury was extremely tentative at a time he would normally look to finish strong.

Yeah, if nothing he looked like he could have been in the ring for few more rounds. Which is shocking in itself.

 

[DJ_21]

It because of the rules. It's a different sport to MMA. A knock-down isn't a death sentence in boxing.

Fury was knocked down against Wilder but got back up and was clearly the better fighter throughout the fight. You can get hit with a shot out of the blue but in boxing that doesn't mean you have to lose the fight.

I wouldn’t say fury was the better fighter though. He looked knackered.

 

[Smithy89]

I wouldn’t say fury was the better fighter though. He looked knackered.

He isn't and never will be the better fighter, boxer yes.

 

[Withnail]

I wouldn’t say fury was the better fighter though. He looked knackered.

I was answering a general question about how someone who's knocked down can win. It happens all the time in boxing. If the question wasn't meant that way then fair enough.

 

[LDUred]

I had Francis winning but it wasn't a robbery for Fury to win.

Tyson was generally a little more active and accurate and that is borne out by the stats.

On the other hand Francis was more aggressive and he threw more hurtful punches than Fury and scored a knockdown.

It comes down to what you reward and it is fair enough either way.

 

[Dan_F]

Francis dropping him just shows how an MMA fight would go, no standing ten count to save him from the pummeling he'd have took.

We’ve already seen that at heavyweight. James Toney getting strangled in seconds was hilarious to watch. Any boxer is getting put on their ass by someone who’s been training MMA for years.

 

[TMDaines]

Said a few times before the fight this was supposed to be part and parcel of the whole promo - Francis made easy work of and a segue into a Usyk showdown.

Fury was not at all with it post fight and promotion was the last thing on his mind at a time when he was processing the shambles that had just transpired.

It wasn’t just Fury. Warren was backpedalling because he could clearly see how much damage was on Fury’s face, but Usyk still went in with his scripted lines announcing the date.

 

[TMDaines]

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[pocco]

I like Ngannou a lot but AJ or wilder do him in 3 rounds.

He'd give AJ a fight. AJ almost looks scared to fight these days, completely gun shy. Wilder would just be very unorthodox with his punch selection, not sure how that would go. Hard to judge Ngannou because Fury was so far below his usual level last night.

 

[pocco]

either way, fury hasn’t done anything of hall of fame note other the klitschko fight (and that too only against a politician.) that’s a long time to be dining out as “the best” whilst there are still boxers that have held belts in the last decade that he hasn’t fought.

Who do you think he should have fought? AJ wouldn't give him a fight pre Fury vs Wlad. Everyone wanted AJ vs Wilder, but Fury got there first, destroyed him and then nobody wanted that for AJ and said Wilder is shit. In the meantime Fury is in the ascension whilst AJ is making a meal out of every fight and losing to B level fighters. So there was no appetite for Fury vs AJ.

Usyk is the only one really and I do think it will happen. Why it's not happened so far is open to interpretation. You possibly can't talk about Fury at HoF level yet, but that's mainly because the division is so shit. When you have numptys blowing smoke up the arse of average boxers like AJ that just says it all. He was the pinnacle of HW for much of the last 10 years and he's garbage.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I had Francis winning but it wasn't a robbery for Fury to win.

Tyson was generally a little more active and accurate and that is borne out by the stats.

On the other hand Francis was more aggressive and he threw more hurtful punches than Fury and scored a knockdown.

It comes down to what you reward and it is fair enough either way.

Yeah it was a close fight and could have gone either way. Although the onus is always on the challenger to take it out of the judge’s hands, as judges seems to always favour the champion in close fights.

Whatever, the absolute hysteria on here (and on social media) from MMA fans about how it was an outrageous decision and a definite fix is and was ridiculous.

 

[rimaldo]

Who do you think he should have fought? AJ wouldn't give him a fight pre Fury vs Wlad. Everyone wanted AJ vs Wilder, but Fury got there first, destroyed him and then nobody wanted that for AJ and said Wilder is shit. In the meantime Fury is in the ascension whilst AJ is making a meal out of every fight and losing to B level fighters. So there was no appetite for Fury vs AJ.

Usyk is the only one really and I do think it will happen. Why it's not happened so far is open to interpretation. You possibly can't talk about Fury at HoF level yet, but that's mainly because the division is so shit. When you have numptys blowing smoke up the arse of average boxers like AJ that just says it all. He was the pinnacle of HW for much of the last 10 years and he's garbage.

i agree it’s a shit division, and he’s not fought anyone who’s anyone in it. he’s a pussy.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I guess if you want to really try and dig any positives in Fury performance last night then him managing out the fight would be the only one (have something to prove/this being an exhibition just goes in excuse territory). But still, the very fact that he had to rely on such tactic is a bad look and purely looking at the punches landed by each round it was still so damn close with some of the rounds that could easily go either way (as seen even with the judges).

Don't know, baffled that after a knock down and aside from the occasional jab he managed to create almost zero openings with his actual movement and boxing.

Agreed. I think he knew he would win because these people and their corners have vast experience. He expended the minimum to do so in a nothing fake Saudi money right. Nobody ever really comes out looking good in these silly exhibitions.